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[PSlayer]

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Thousands of Israeli families who have been searching in vain for answers since their babies mysteriously disappeared in the early 1950s - shortly after Israel's creation - have been thrown a lifeline.

The mystery of the missing children has plagued Israel for decades, with evidence mounting that at least some of the babies were trafficked by hospitals and orphanages - possibly with the connivance of Israeli officials.

The vast majority of the children - potentially as many as 8,000 - were from Jewish families that had recently immigrated to Israel from Arab countries such as Yemen, Iraq, Tunisia and Morocco.

The Arab Jews, known in Israel as the Mizrahim, have faced well-documented racism and discrimination from Israeli authorities.

Three official inquiries have concluded that most of the babies died, even though many families lack death certificates and were not told where their babies were buried. A number of mothers have told of nurses seizing a healthy baby from their arms, only to tell them shortly afterwards the baby had died.

Basically,white european Jews(Ashkenazi) own/run Israel and have a well documented story of opressing "darkskinned" jews as well as palestinians.

This is a story that was known for decades but treated as thin foil hat conspiracy or anti semitic fake news.

I wonder how much time until we can finally admit that Israel is a white ethnostate that dodges any criticism thanks to the good old holocaust card and,of course,USA support?!

 

[Lupingosei]

I wonder how much time until we can finally admit that Israel is a white ethnostate that dodges any criticism thanks to the good old holocaust card and,of course,USA support?!

No, and let me explain you why. You have to be very careful with topics like this or you will end up like in the other forum and only spout out anti-Isreal rhetoric mixed with some diet anti-semitism.

You have to understand, this was part of the Zeitgeist during that time and happened all around the world. In democracies like Switzerland, in Dictatorships like Spain or even in Eastern Europe.

In Switzerland, for example, single mothers were often institutionalized and sterilized against their will. Their children were taken away, so were the children of poor or unfit parents. The children were then either sent to special homes or had to work on farms as "Verdingkinder". A lot of those children's homes did not work very well and they sometimes starved or were even molested. It did not happen to everyone, but it did happen. Also, some of the "Verdingkinder" just had to work as unpaid workers and their childhood was stolen from them as well. This also happened to a lot of minorities in western Europe and in several countries, their children were taken away from them and even got sterilized.

In other countries like Spain for example, this was done by the Catholic church. Sometimes children of "unfit" parents "died" in their hospitals and were given to more "deserving" parents. This was also done by private institutions like mental institutions and hospitals. In eastern Europe children of political enemies were taken by the state to get them reeducated and also a lot of "criminals" lost their children.

Isreal was not alone in this and making this an Isreali story is very dangerous. You have to look at stories like this in the historical context. If you are not doing that, you will just use propaganda and are part of the political tribalism of our time.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I wonder how much time until we can finally admit that Israel is a white ethnostate that dodges any criticism thanks to the good old holocaust card and,of course,USA support?!

I've seen plenty of criticism. Some from the far right, some from the far left, and some that's reasonable.

 

[BadHand]

No, and let me explain you why. You have to be very careful with topics like this or you will end up like in the other forum and only spout out anti-Isreal rhetoric mixed with some diet anti-semitism.

You have to understand, this was part of the Zeitgeist during that time and happened all around the world. In democracies like Switzerland, in Dictatorships like Spain or even in Eastern Europe.

In Switzerland, for example, single mothers were often institutionalized and sterilized against their will. Their children were taken away, so were the children of poor or unfit parents. The children were then either sent to special homes or had to work on farms as "Verdingkinder". A lot of those children's homes did not work very well and they sometimes starved or were even molested. It did not happen to everyone, but it did happen. Also, some of the "Verdingkinder" just had to work as unpaid workers and their childhood was stolen from them as well. This also happened to a lot of minorities in western Europe and in several countries, their children were taken away from them and even got sterilized.

In other countries like Spain for example, this was done by the Catholic church. Sometimes children of "unfit" parents "died" in their hospitals and were given to more "deserving" parents. This was also done by private institutions like mental institutions and hospitals. In eastern Europe children of political enemies were taken by the state to get them reeducated and also a lot of "criminals" lost their children.

Isreal was not alone in this and making this an Isreali story is very dangerous. You have to look at stories like this in the historical context. If you are not doing that, you will just use propaganda and are part of the political tribalism of our time.

We've hit new highs for whataboutism.

Israel are still shooting children dead on beaches and locking them up in their dungeons today. Israeli child abuse isn't exactly contained to a few bad years in the 1950's.

 

[Lupingosei]

We've hit new highs for whataboutism.

Israel are still shooting children dead on beaches and locking them up in their dungeons today. Israeli child abuse isn't exactly contained to a few bad years in the 1950's.

First, really?

Second, I tried to explain why this happened in the 50's and that happened all around the world during that time, because some states, intellectuals or authorities thought they knew what is best for their citizens, patients or people.

Third, this is propaganda now and has nothing to do with the article posted.

 

[BadHand]

First, really?

Second, I tried to explain why this happened in the 50's and that happened all around the world during that time, because some states, intellectuals or authorities thought they knew what is best for their citizens, patients or people.

Third, this is propaganda now and has nothing to do with the article posted.

You're the one tried brush off the issue of up to 8000 kidnapped/missing babies and warned that the OP has to be "very careful with topics like this" as if that's supposed to be some sort of veiled threat of labeling them anti-Semitic.

Your explanation is weak. You're at best guessing why this happened. Nobody knows why this happened... so suggesting Israel only had the best of intentions for its citizens is nonsense. They were Israeli citizens, but they were Arab Israelis, which have led them to be treated in such a barbaric way. So rather than go on the defensive, maybe show a little bit of empathy for the families of the victims of this tragedy and recognize that this may lead to some closure after all this time.

 

[Mohonky]

I wonder how much time until we can finally admit that Israel is a white ethnostate that dodges any criticism thanks to the good old holocaust card and,of course,USA support?!

Whenever you want.

There was a time I would defend Isreal taking more land in response to aggression toward the state, but seeing how Isreal is today, can't really say much when Isreal continues in its merry way of oppressing people under the guise they are 'just protecting themselves' when quite clearly that paradigm shifted, if indeed it ever existed.

Of course noone should fear living under rocket attacks while conversely people shouldn't be living through fear of the kind of state sponsored oppression coming from Isreal.

As always, a lot of innocent people will be killed or their lives otherwise ruined because of a minority of nutters with the most influence.

 

[Lupingosei]

You're the one tried brush off the issue of up to 8000 kidnapped/missing babies and warned that the OP has to be "very careful with topics like this" as if that's supposed to be some sort of veiled threat of labeling them anti-Semitic.

Your explanation is weak. You're at best guessing why this happened. Nobody knows why this happened... so suggesting Israel only had the best of intentions for its citizens is nonsense. They were Israeli citizens, but they were Arab Israelis, which have led them to be treated in such a barbaric way. So rather than go on the defensive, maybe show a little bit of empathy for the families of the victims of this tragedy and recognize that this may lead to some closure after all this time.

I neither brush it off nor do I suggest that people behind it had the best intentions. Again I tried to explain that this was part of a wider authoritarian movement of people, institutions or states during that time who thought they knew what is best for the people. Israel in that aspect is not more or less guilty than other states, the Catholic church or other private institutions. Most of the people in other countries were Swiss, Spanish or Catholic, but still, others decided that they knew what is "best" for them and their children. Even doctors did that for their patients. And of course states or instituation have to work hard to make these wrongs right again.

What you are trying to do is mixing it up with current politics to make an argument how terrible Israel is. And that is exactly why I said the OP you should be really careful not to fall into this trap you just did. You can not keep apart this and start this anti-Israel thing. He even used the Holocaust as an argument. This is exactly this general anti-Israel mixed with a little casual anti-semitism I was talking about. This broad brush to paint everything with the same color.

 

[BadHand]

I neither brush it off nor do I suggest that people behind it had the best intentions. Again I tried to explain that this was part of a wider authoritarian movement of people, institutions or states during that time who thought they knew what is best for the people. Israel in that aspect is not more or less guilty than other states, the Catholic church or other private institutions. Most of the people in other countries were Swiss, Spanish or Catholic, but still, others decided that they knew what is "best" for them and their children. Even doctors did that for their patients. And of course states or instituation have to work hard to make these wrongs right again.

What you are trying to do is mixing it up with current politics to make an argument how terrible Israel is. And that is exactly why I said the OP you should be really careful not to fall into this trap you just did. You can not keep apart this and start this anti-Israel thing. He even used the Holocaust as an argument. This is exactly this general anti-Israel mixed with a little casual anti-semitism I was talking about. This broad brush to paint everything with the same color.

Thank you for the “explanation”, but this isn’t a discussion about Switzerland, Spain or the Catholic Church. You’re trying deflect the topic with your whataboutisms. It certainly won’t immunize anyone from deserved criticism.

The 1950s isn’t some lawless time of the past. I don’t care if all the cool countries we’re kidnapping babies back then. People knew the difference between right and wrong. You only seem concerned with Israel’s Image, rather than for the victims of an appalling crime.

 

[Mohonky]

I neither brush it off nor do I suggest that people behind it had the best intentions. Again I tried to explain that this was part of a wider authoritarian movement of people, institutions or states during that time who thought they knew what is best for the people. Israel in that aspect is not more or less guilty than other states, the Catholic church or other private institutions. Most of the people in other countries were Swiss, Spanish or Catholic, but still, others decided that they knew what is "best" for them and their children. Even doctors did that for their patients. And of course states or instituation have to work hard to make these wrongs right again.

What you are trying to do is mixing it up with current politics to make an argument how terrible Israel is. And that is exactly why I said the OP you should be really careful not to fall into this trap you just did. You can not keep apart this and start this anti-Israel thing. He even used the Holocaust as an argument. This is exactly this general anti-Israel mixed with a little casual anti-semitism I was talking about. This broad brush to paint everything with the same color.

Like when Europe colonised Africa and Asia for 'the best of the people'?? I mean they enslaved people, took their lands and killed scores of locals but it had to happen so those savages could be dragged to a more civilised society?

It had nothing to do with 'what is better for the people' and everything to do with ethnic purity and cleansing. Apparently they weren't horrified by Hitlers Nazi party tactics, they just didn't like where it was directed.

 

[Typical]

It’s gets worse, they experimented on the babies killing many with the parents oblivious to the fact.

Not only that they were testing babies for “black blood” which apparently meant they were racially inferior.

Also stealing babies and giving them to white European Jews.

Literally naziesque behaviour made even worse this was only a few years after the holocaust.

 

[deadscreensky]

Isreal was not alone in this and making this an Isreali story is very dangerous. You have to look at stories like this in the historical context. If you are not doing that, you will just use propaganda and are part of the political tribalism of our time.

I think I get what you're going for here, and I can respect your effort to cool things down a bit (the last thing any online forum needs is more rage), but at the same time I feel you're ignoring some important facts. For starters this literally is an Israeli story, because it's about a historical event in Israel and getting to the truth of it. And obviously Israel today is an openly racist state, so making a comparison between other governments that don't practice apartheid right this minute is maybe slightly misleading.

But ultimately I agree with you, because as the article makes clear there are lots of people in Israel who complained about these crimes, both now and at the time they were committed. So using these crimes to paint all of Israel with the same brush is deeply unfair, and like you say smacks of some diet anti-Semitism. There's an important difference between criticizing part of a country, even if it's the ruling party of the government, with the entire country's population. The article is actually about new research coming out because the government itself passed laws to aid investigation, apparently due to public pressure. This is by no means an "Israel Sucks!" kind of story here.

I also agree with you that it's important to understand that these sorts of things were extremely common at the time. It might be popular to treat the Holocaust as some kind of anomaly, but unfortunately that sort of government/scientific racism fit all too well into that era's milieu. (For example, the Nazis were very much inspired by the US's own efforts at ethnic cleansing.) Still, it's crucial not to use that as some sort of excuse. (I don't think you're necessarily doing this, but other posters here obviously feel otherwise.) Any perpetrators involved with this nasty business deserve severe condemnation.