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[Bedlam]

Even if you don't care about this person in particular the potential intel into the ISIS inner workings lost for nothing is a lot of value down the drain. Maybe think before you post your pre-made internet responses.

A colleague of mine just said the same basically:

"This is good! - he wouldn't have talked anyway and would've just been a burden on the tax payer".

I just can't fathom the short-sightedness and ignorance of some people. He also argues that none of these people (wannabe terrorists) ever talk in an interrogation, because they come from countries like Syria in which torture is not unusual but we in the West can't use it to make them talk.

 

[YianGaruga]

I'm no expert, but checking on him now and then doesn't sound too outlandish for such a situation. Are all suicidal people kept under constant watch ? It doesn't sound really feasible.
That's why I was wondering how he managed to kill himself, if he did it in a preventable/foreseeable way (like hanging himself with his belt or shoelaces), then it would suggest a big mistake has been made.

Anyway that's what the investigation is for, better wait for its conclusion.

He was a high profile terrorism suspect. How many of those are there that you can't keep watch on a single one?

The last sentence is eye rolling.

A terrorist died. Some people are calmly satisfied with that news. Are you really scandalized by this?

It's pretty short-sighted

 

[Shiggy]

A colleague of mine just said the same basically:

"This is good! - he wouldn't have talked anyway and would've just been a burden on the tax payer".

I just can't fathom the short-sighteness and ignorance of some people.

He does have a point though.

 

[oti]

The last sentence is eye rolling.

A terrorist died. Some people are calmly satisfied with that news. Are you really scandalized by this?

I'm not telling anyone to sympathize with a dead terrorist. A living terrorist in captivity is worth way more than a dead terrorist. You can't get information form the dead. That's not so hard to understand is it.

 

[Des0lar]

He does have a point though.

The tax cost is negligible for one person. The information on the other hand invaluable.

 

[Shiggy]

Press conference:
Albakr hanged himself with his shirt tied to the bars.

The tax cost is negligible for one person. The information on the other hand invaluable.

That suggests that he would have talked.

 

[YoungFa]

As soon as some becomes a terry they stop being human. At leaste thats what reading the comments here suggests.

 

[duckroll]

That suggests that he would have talked.

Honestly, even if he doesn't talk, this sort of thing is bad for everyone. Tax dollars which you feel would have been "wasted" on keeping him incarcerated, are now being "wasted" because there has to be an investigation into how it happened, and there's a loss of confidence in the entire process.

 

[Bedlam]

That suggests that he would have talked.

Maybe he would have, who knows? The chance that he would've talked is reason enough to want him to be alive.

Not even talking about how ISIS will sell this as a "win" against the West with the Martyr death and all.

 

[BocoDragon]

As soon as some becomes a terry they stop being human. At leaste thats what reading the comments here suggests.

Yup, you got it. If you are confirmed to have the intent to kill strangers, your life does have no worth in my eyes.

I'm amenable to needs of justice and intel, but in terms of human "worth" of a terrorist? Nope. It's all gone.

I'm not telling anyone to sympathize with a dead terrorist. A living terrorist in captivity is worth way more than a dead terrorist. You can't get information form the dead. That's not so hard to understand is it.

I understand the need for intel. And for justice. And I'd advocate for it if given the choice.

But that doesn't diminish the understandable satisfaction that one might have when they learn that a terrorist has found a way to remove themselves from this planet.

 

[zoukka]

As soon as some becomes a terry they stop being human. At leaste thats what reading the comments here suggests.

Nobody ever stops being a human. But if you intend taking innocent lives, you should be prepared to lose your life in turn.

I'm amenable to needs of justice and intel, but in terms of human "worth" of a terrorist? Nope. It's all gone.

This. Your "worth" is completely dependant on your actions. If you commit horrific actions your worth to this world will be gone.

 

[Shiggy]

Honestly, even if he doesn't talk, this sort of thing is bad for everyone. Tax dollars which you feel would have been "wasted" on keeping him incarcerated, are now being "wasted" because there has to be an investigation into how it happened, and there's a loss of confidence in the entire process.

Costs should still be lower in the long term.

Maybe he would have, who knows? The chance that he would've talked is reason enough to want him to be alive.

Not even talking about how ISIS will sell this as a "win" against the West with the Martyr death and all.

Not even saying it's good this happened. But it's definitely a positive that no tax money has to be paid for his imprisonment anymore. That's a rather uncontroversial point actually.

And for ISIS it's a win? He didn't kill anyone and thus brought shame to his family. Is he even eligible to get the 100 virgins now?



More from the press conference :
Last check of his cell at 1930
Person then found dead at 1945
Reanimation attempts without success

 

[Hektor]

As soon as some becomes a terry they stop being human. At leaste thats what reading the comments here suggests.

When someone plans to kill me, than yes, i indeed will show less empathy and understanding towards this person than i show to everybody else.

It's extremely rare for somebody to commit suicide in german prisons. They likely didn't take the threat as seriously as they should because of that.

Is it? I'm seriously ignorant there, but i would've figured in prison that would happen quite often, at least for the people who are supposed to stay for longer.

He's 22. Do you know how he became radicalized? Were you with him 24/7, through out this mans life to know WHY he was going to do it? Well as a matter of fact, you don't even know this man, you are basing his life on a paragraph. Is your life written in a paragraph? He could have been forced to do it for all we know. Hold your tongue before you speak .'

Edit: I'm saying one more thing and you fools better listen well. You will not make it far in life if you have no regard for God's creations and fail to show the same love to them as you are supposed to. Just please all I ask is don't judge a person before you actually sit down and talk to them about their lives, and listen to what they have to say. You would want the same, yes?

I mean, i see where you're coming from, but everybody is still responsible for his own actions, having shit done to you doesn't excuse doing shit to other people, the logical consequence of your argumentation is the absence of any form of guilt or morality as "everybody is just a product of his environment".

I'm no expert, but checking on him now and then doesn't sound too outlandish for such a situation. Are all suicidal people kept under constant watch ? It doesn't sound really feasible.
That's why I was wondering how he managed to kill himself, if he did it in a preventable/foreseeable way (like hanging himself with his belt or shoelaces), then it would suggest a big mistake has been made.

Anyway that's what the investigation is for, better wait for its conclusion.

I can't talk for prisons, but within mental health facilities, people with an acute risk of suicide are usually kept under eyes 24/7, save for bathrom visits and are kept fixated at night from my experience.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I'm not telling anyone to sympathize with a dead terrorist. A living terrorist in captivity is worth way more than a dead terrorist. You can't get information form the dead. That's not so hard to understand is it.

With European prisons being the main terrorist recruitment facilities and hundreds of people killed by the ones who go in as armed robbers and come out as terrorists I'd say that saying is in dire need of a review.

 

[ohyouagain]

"suicide"... heh.

 

[Bedlam]

Costs should still be lower in the long term.

Not even saying it's good this happened. But it's definitely a positive that no tax money has to be paid for his imprisonment anymore. That's a rather uncontroversial point actually.

As people have pointed out: the money for incarcerating him would've have been rather negligible compared to the information he may have provided.

And for ISIS it's a win? He didn't kill anyone and thus brought shame to his family. Is he even eligible to get the 100 virgins now?

He will be idolized for showing the courage to carry out the preparations for the attack and then "escaping" the Western authorities by committing suicide.

 

[Shiggy]

More from the conference:
Person was calm, showed interest in knowing more about life in prison
Manipulation of power plugs and broken lamp was seen as vandalism, not as signs for a suicide attempt
Initial cell checks were done every 15 minutes, later every 30 minutes
Time between last check and finding the dead body was 15 minutes as there was an unscheduled check

As people have pointed out: the money for incarcerating him would've have been rather negligible compared to the information he may have provided.

Remains a positive no matter how you try to spin it. Negatives may outweigh positives though.

 

[oti]

With European prisons being the main terrorist recruitment facilities and hundreds of people killed by the ones who go in as armed robbers and come out as terrorists I'd say that saying is in dire need of a review.

Are there statistics on this? Sounds really interesting and indeed in need of a review.

 

[Ethelwulf]

Oh yeah you are right, I guess he did make his own decision. I guess I feel sorry when people commit suicide because I know that at some point, the depression and horrors that cloud the mind make it hard to make wise decisions. Have you ever been so depressed that you couldn't even think properly and you were making decisions that you knew were wrong but yet you still couldn't stop yourself? Yeah, I used to be, I finally was able to break it with just smiling and now I don't feel so bad, but yea I'm sorry if I offended you Duckroll because I shows a bit of empathy. You should try get some too yourself! I will correct my first post though, I apologize sir!

We don't know why he committed suicide and I doubt his reasons are depression.

Edit: I'm saying one more thing and you fools better listen well. You will not make it far in life if you have no regard for God's creations and fail to show the same love to them as you are supposed to. Just please all I ask is don't judge a person before you actually sit down and talk to them about their lives, and listen to what they have to say. You would want the same, yes?

What the hell did I just read?! Disagree completely. You don't have to personally know someone to be able to have a stand on who that person is.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Are there statistics on this? Sounds really interesting and indeed in need of a review.

http://icsr.info/wp-content/uploads...-Jihadists-and-the-New-Crime-Terror-Nexus.pdf

 

[Bollocks]

So he can recruit some small time criminals to become terrorists ? No thanks.

on the way to the prison they should have sent him to the US, whoops we didn't mean too, we mixed up the destination, well, he is in the hands of US officials now, nothing we can do, sorry little terrorist...

 

[oti]

http://icsr.info/wp-content/uploads...-Jihadists-and-the-New-Crime-Terror-Nexus.pdf

Thank you for the link.

 

[Transhuman]

On the bright side, taxpayers save money now as he does not need to be fed through in prison.

He will be idolized for showing the courage to carry out the preparations for the attack and then "escaping" the Western authorities by committing suicide.

Feels like a missed opportunity. The terrorist leaders should praise the captured extremists who drain the taxpayers for years, decades even, then kill themselves. That's how you really stick it to the Government.

 

[KHlover]

"suicide"... heh.

Yeah, that's how it's called when people kill themselve.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Yup, you got it. If you are confirmed to have the intent to kill strangers, your life does have no worth in my eyes.

I'm amenable to needs of justice and intel, but in terms of human "worth" of a terrorist? Nope. It's all gone.


I understand the need for intel. And for justice. And I'd advocate for it if given the choice.

But that doesn't diminish the understandable satisfaction that one might have when they learn that a terrorist has found a way to remove themselves from this planet.

I didn't realise he had been tried and found guilty.

Link?

 

[MisterFalcon]

I didn't realise he had been tried and found guilty.

Link?

None of the Bataclan attackers were tried and found guilty, I guess we'll have to call this an unsolved crime.

 

[DieNgamers]

Well he had all the materials for a bomb and probably planned to use them, right?

A shame about his suicide, I guess he knew too much...

I hope he wasn't part of something bigger. :/ It's crazy how close it got with stuff like this these last years. Yet everything's always prevented last second. That's not too bad!

 

[ClosingADoor]

Shouldn't have happened and they need to run an investigation to prevent it in the future. But I don't really feel bad for the guy at the same time.

 

[justjohn]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/world/europe/syrian-terror-suspect-germany-suicide.html



http://www.wsj.com/articles/syrian-...rmany-committedsuicide-lawyer-says-1476306793



The public defender of Albakr also claims that he notified the authorities that Albakr was on hunger strike and expressed suicidal thoughts. He claims the police reassured him, that Albakr would be under surveillance.

Major fuck up on the Sachsen police department's side. German public is outraged, how this could happen and demand extensive investigations.

I seriously doubt that

 

[SliceSabre]

What a fuck up. I thought people like him were kept under 24/7 watch because the potential is so high they'll kill themselves rather than reveal other secret plans.

 

[StickSoldier]

More from the conference:
Person was calm, showed interest in knowing more about life in prison
Manipulation of power plugs and broken lamp was seen as vandalism, not as signs for a suicide attempt
Initial cell checks were done every 15 minutes, later every 30 minutes
Time between last check and finding the dead body was 15 minutes as there was an unscheduled check




Remains a positive no matter how you try to spin it. Negatives may outweigh positives though.

You bring shame to the name Shiggy, I wish you didn't have it. He's a saint compared to you sheesh. He gave us Mario, not killing.. lol

 

[Shiggy]

You bring shame to the name Shiggy, I wish you didn't have it. He's a saint compared to you sheesh. He gave us Mario, not killing.. lol

I'm not killing or in favor of killing anyone? Huh

 

[oti]

I seriously doubt that

There are the people who think "who cares" but there are also people who wonder how this could've happened. It's embarrassing for the responsible department and it wouldn't surprise me if people were getting fired over this. It's a huge fuck up.

 

[Alx]

It's crazy how close it got with stuff like this these last years. Yet everything's always prevented last second. That's not too bad!

I suppose such things are often prevented last second because getting close to the act gives more ways to get noticed. You can plot for years just browsing the net and exchanging messages and go under the radar (or just be classified as "potential risk" among thousands of others), but you're taking more risks of being caught when you start buying weapons or explosives.

 

[StickSoldier]

I'm not killing or in favor of killing anyone? Huh

Didn't say you were in favor of either, now did I? Please read before you post. You said it remains a positive, could you please elaborate further, I would love to know what positives come from someone committing suicide?

 

[Shiggy]

There are the people who think "who cares" but there are also people who wonder how this could've happened. It's embarrassing for the responsible department and it wouldn't surprise me if people were getting fired over this. It's a huge fuck up.

I find it odd that they didn't think it would be wise to take higher safety measures. They have special clothing to prevent suicidal attempts. They should have handed him over to those experienced with terror suspects - afaik there are one or two special prisons for such cases.

Didn't say you were in favor of either, now did I? Please read before you post. You said it remains a positive, could you please elaborate further, I would love to know what positives come from someone committing suicide?

Maybe you do your reading first. I said that not having to pay for that guy's life in prison with taxpayers' money is a positive (among negatives).

 

[oti]

I find it odd that they didn't think it would be wise to take higher safety measures. They have special clothing to prevent suicidal attempts. They should have handed him over to those experienced with terror suspects - afaik there are one or two special prisons for such cases.

It just doesn't make much sense and the department looks like fools. As much as Germany might seem like this beacon of competence to some, stuff like this is terrible for people's trust in the system.

Of course, this being an alleged terrorist who wanted to blow up a bunch of people softens this up quite significantly. But in the end this shouldn't have happened but it did. That's a problem.

 

[StickSoldier]

I find it odd that they didn't think it would be wise to take higher safety measures. They have special clothing to prevent suicidal attempts. They should have handed him over to those experienced with terror suspects - afaik there are one or two special prisons for such cases.




Maybe you do your reading first. I said that not having to pay for that guy's life in prison with taxpayers' money is a positive (among negatives).

Ok so hold on, you are telling me that his suicide is a "positive" because no one is going to have to pay to keep him in prison? He didn't willingly go, right?

Edit; You know what, I'm not going to waste my time with you. You don't get it now, and you wouldn't get it if it slapped youu in the face for eternity. So I'm just leaving it as that.

 

[Zukuu]

That's a major fuck up. Hope they still got at least some information out of him.

 

[Shiggy]

Ok so hold on, you are telling me that his suicide is a "positive" because no one is going to have to pay to keep him in prison? He didn't willingly go, right?

No, I'm not telling you that his suicide is a positive. I said that the fact that taxpayers don't have to pay for his life in prison is a positive. Read more carefully.

And what does it mean? "He didn't willingly go"? What do you try to imply with that.

Edit; You know what, I'm not going to waste my time with you. You don't get it now, and you wouldn't get it if it slapped youu in the face for eternity. So I'm just leaving it as that.

Grow up.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Oh east germany again..rolls eyes.. Wouldnt be surprised if this was an intentional slip up

I seriously doubt that

Are you kidding me. The man could have been a source to nail down other terrorists

 

[MisterFalcon]

Are you kidding me. The man could have been a source to nail down other terrorists

Or he could have used a coded statement by his lawyer to warn others to carry out their attacks immediately like Saleh Adbeslam did.

 

[Oberon]

That guy was only 2 years older than me. It's such a tragedy that so many people are ready to throw their life away like that. It's probably just a reflection of how messed up the situation in Syria is.

 

[Captain Smoker]

There are the people who think "who cares" but there are also people who wonder how this could've happened. It's embarrassing for the responsible department and it wouldn't surprise me if people were getting fired over this. It's a huge fuck up.

Give it two weeks and nobody cares about this anymore.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

He's 22. Do you know how he became radicalized? Were you with him 24/7, through out this mans life to know WHY he was going to do it? Well as a matter of fact, you don't even know this man, you are basing his life on a paragraph. Is your life written in a paragraph? He could have been forced to do it for all we know. Hold your tongue before you speak .'

Edit: I'm saying one more thing and you fools better listen well. You will not make it far in life if you have no regard for God's creations and fail to show the same love to them as you are supposed to. Just please all I ask is don't judge a person before you actually sit down and talk to them about their lives, and listen to what they have to say. You would want the same, yes?

Calls people fools

"Dont judge me and others, but let me rant about what you need in your life!"

Here is a tip, dont defend and ask for people to withhold judgement on a guy who had pounds of bomb making material in his home, and maybe you wont be caught in the line of fire of everyone!

 

[oti]

Give it two weeks and nobody cares about this anymore.

I think you're right.

 

[cptodin]

zeit.de has an article about this

Jaber al-Bakr wurde am Mittwochabend um 19.45 Uhr von einer Justizanwärterin tot in seiner Zelle aufgefunden. Er hatte sich mit seinem T-Shirt an einem Zwischengitter erhängt, das die Zelle teilt.

Al-Bakr hung himself on the cell's bars with his shirt

Al-Bakr war nach seiner Festnahme am 10. Oktober zunächst einer Haftrichterin vorgeführt worden. Dort hatte Al-Bakr angekündigt, dass er die Nahrung verweigern werde. Die Haftrichterin sah deshalb die Gefahr, Al-Bakr könne sich das Leben nehmen, und gab diese Information auch weiter.

Al-Bakr was brought up in front of a judge where he announced to go in hunger strike. The judge raised concern of al-Bakr being suicidal and forwarded this information.

Er sei sofort umgekleidet worden und habe dann als Anstaltskleidung eine Jogginghose und ein T-Shirt getragen.

He got prison clothing

Al-Bakr sei ruhig aufgetreten. Wegen der Warnung des Haftrichters habe man den Gefangenen zunächst alle 15 Minuten kontrolliert. Eine akute Suizidgefahr, die es gerechtfertigt hätte, ihn in einem besonders gesicherten Haftraum unterzubringen, habe es nicht gegeben. Üblicherweise würden latent suizidgefährdete Gefangene mit anderen Inhaftierten untergebracht, damit sie nicht allein bleiben. In diesem Fall sei das aber nicht möglich gewesen, weil die Gefahr zu groß gewesen sei, dass er als mutmaßlicher Terrorist von anderen Gefangenen angegriffen werden könnte.

He appeared to be calm and he was checked upon every 15min initially. There are special cells for inmates with a suicide risk but al-Bakr did not meet the criteria for that. Usually in this case they are put together with other inmates. This was not an option in this case as the risk for al-Bakr to be attacked was too high.

Später am Dienstag führte eine Psychologin ein eineinhalbstündiges Gespräch mit Al-Bakr, begleitet von einem Dolmetscher. In diesem Gespräch habe Al-Bakr sich ruhig und zurückhaltend gezeigt und sich für den weiteren Haftverlauf interessiert. Die Psychologin schätzte ihn daraufhin nicht als akut suizidgefährdet ein. In Absprache mit der Anstaltsleitung sei die Beobachtung auf einen halbstündigen Rhythmus erweitert worden.

On Tuesday (one day after being presented to the judge) a psychologist talked to him via a translator. Al-Bakr was reserved and was interested in what would happen to him next. The psychologist then decided that there was no acute danger of al-Bakr commiting suicide and it was decided in accordance with the prison administration to expand the checks on him to every 30min.

In der Nacht von Dienstag auf Mittwoch hat Al-Bakr die Lampe in seiner Zelle als beschädigt gemeldet. Die Lampe wurde daraufhin entfernt, der Strom im Raum abgeschaltet. Am Mittwoch stellten Beamte fest, dass auch eine Steckdose in der Zelle manipuliert worden sei. Die Dose sei jedoch stromlos gewesen.

That night, he destroyed a lamp which was removed and signs of him messing with an outlet were noted, though the outlet was not energised. This behaviour is not unusual with new inmates according to prison administration.

Den ganzen Mittwoch über trat der Gefangene ruhig auf. "Es gab keine Hinweise auf irgendwelche emotionalen Ausfälle", sagte der Anstaltsleiter. Um 19.30 Uhr fand die letzte reguläre Kontrolle statt. Eine Viertelstunde später überprüfte eine Auszubildende zur Justizbeamtin die Zelle noch einmal aus eigenem Impuls, obwohl die Kontrollen auf einen halbstündigen Rhythmus ausgeweitet worden waren. Sie fand Al-Bakr und schlug Alarm. Die Beamten versuchten sofort, den Gefangenen wiederzubeleben, eine Gefängnisärztin kam hinzu, dann auch der Notarzt. Gegen 20.15 Uhr stellte der Notarzt den Tod Al-Bakrs fest. Ein Gerichtsmediziner hat Fremdverschulden weitgehend ausgeschlossen, es läuft die Obduktion. Die Staatsanwaltschaft ermittelt dennoch in alle Richtungen.

Al-Bakr remained calm on wednesday(the day he killed himself) and nothing unusual had been noticed about him. At 1930 he was last checked upon, at 1945 a judicial officer apprentice wanted to see if he is alright despite the expanded watch time and found him hung in his cell. She raised alarm and they tried to revive him to no avail. A doctor found him dead at 2015.

A coroner excluded third party negligence though investigations go in all directions.


There is more in the article, statistics about prison suicides and what happens next.

 

[Snkfanatic]

I hope you're just trying to be edgy,cause he was a terrorist,so gfto with that shit.

That's your definition of edgy?

 

[mnz]

Interesting how his suicide is now making international news, but barely anything before that. He had 1.5 kg or 6 lbs of the same explosive they used in Paris. Germany got extremely lucky on this one.
And Saxonian authorities look awful again, for like the 10th time this year.