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[graywolf323]

wtf

Spoiler

how do you beat Omen Deng in the boss fight with him?

damn I wish I had brought my shotgun on this mission...

 

[MannahContana]

I think Avellone writes at about Gaiders level, regardless of gender, on his off games. When he is on...you get Kreia or Kaelyn or Morte or Ravel Puzzlewell and avatars like the Nameless One and the Exile.

Minsc, Irenicus, Alistair, Morrigan, HK 47, Zevran is nothing to be sneezed at. And a lot of them are far more recent, and far better than anything from Alpha Protocol. Gaider is growing, Chris isn't.

 

[Rad-]

What's with Gaider hate? I think he's great when creating memorable characters but not so much when writing campaigns.

HK-47 for example, who he basically created, was awesome and to this day remembered as one of the top characters ever. Bastila was good too. And he wrote pretty much the only worthwhile members in Dragon Age (Alistair, Morrigan, Shale).

I'd like to see a game where Gaider would write half the characters and Avellone the other half. Could be pretty awesome really.

 

[Cep]

Anyone know how far the Sis/Albetross story goes?

Spoiler

I did the locket stuff a couple of days ago. Is that all there is (I wonder if Albetross is not as clean as I think he is. So far he is the only one that has held up.)?

 

[Cep]

Minsc, Irenicus, Alistair, Morrigan, HK 47, Zevran is nothing to be sneezed at. And a lot of them are far more recent, and far better than anything from Alpha Protocol. Gaider is growing, Chris isn't.

I want to have sex with this man; those are some of my favorites.

Also, I would venture to say that AP in its entirety matches those.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

HK-47 for example, who he basically created, was awesome and to this day remembered as one of the top characters ever.

Haha, what

 

[Rad-]

Haha, what

Yes I said it. Not many other characters can compete with him or it when it comes to pure comedy value.

 

[firehawk12]

I think Avellone writes at about Gaider's level, regardless of gender, on his off games. When he is on...you get Kreia or Kaelyn or Morte or Ravel Puzzlewell (many of his best creations are females, oddly) and avatars like the Nameless One and the Exile.

Gaider is fine, but he doesnt have much flair and his prose and dialogue arent as good. And most of his characters are usually flat IMO and the player avatars standard fare. Not that flat characters are bad, but rounded ones are much harder to do.

I think Gaider is great at characterization (as pointed out by the various examples people above posted). Certainly they aren't as deep as some of Avellone's characters, but they stand out on concept alone.

As I tend to play female PCs in all my RPGs, I feel like Gaider is the only one who takes advantage of this. Maybe it's because he talks to fangirls/women and tries to shape his writing around their expectations (the aimo Dragon Age comic they released a few months ago is an example), but he seems to put much more care in writing for a female PC than anyone else, Avellone included.

The fact that Alpha Protocol forces you to play male means I can't really make a comparison there, but I feel like in KoTOR2 and NWN2, the experience is crafted for male PCs first.

 

[Cep]

I think Gaider is great at characterization (as pointed out by the various examples people above posted). Certainly they aren't as deep as some of Avellone's characters, but they stand out on concept alone.

As I tend to play female PCs in all my RPGs, I feel like Gaider is the only one who takes advantage of this. Maybe it's because he talks to fangirls/women and tries to shape his writing around their expectations (the aimo Dragon Age comic they released a few months ago is an example), but he seems to put much more care in writing for a female PC than anyone else, Avellone included.

The fact that Alpha Protocol forces you to play male means I can't really make a comparison there, but I feel like in KoTOR2 and NWN2, the experience is crafted for male PCs first.

Bad memories of disciple coming back (Thank god for the handmaiden mod)...

 

[MannahContana]

Haha, what

As far as WRPG comedic side kicks you have Morte and Minsc who were some of the originals. But HK 47 really was the first major breakout character for the general public, KOTOR being star wars game was more mainstream than the other two games. To this day characters like Mordin and even in this thread Steven Heck are being compared to the character. Significant character in the history of WRPGs.

 

[Basileus777]

Also, I would venture to say that AP in its entirety matches those.

I don't know about that. AP's plot works because of the way it handles decisions, the characters themselves are mostly Rockstar style genre archetypes.

 

[MannahContana]

I think Gaider is great at characterization (as pointed out by the various examples people above posted). Certainly they aren't as deep as some of Avellone's characters, but they stand out on concept alone.

As I tend to play female PCs in all my RPGs, I feel like Gaider is the only one who takes advantage of this. Maybe it's because he talks to fangirls/women and tries to shape his writing around their expectations (the aimo Dragon Age comic they released a few months ago is an example), but he seems to put much more care in writing for a female PC than anyone else, Avellone included.

The fact that Alpha Protocol forces you to play male means I can't really make a comparison there, but I feel like in KoTOR2 and NWN2, the experience is crafted for male PCs first.

I don't want to cause a shitstorm or seem politically incorrect, but the fact that Gaider is gay does give him an adavatange as a writer in writing good females characters and love interests (both sexes), he sees things from various perspectives that straight males do not.

 

[HK-47]

Minsc, Irenicus, Alistair, Morrigan, HK 47, Zevran is nothing to be sneezed at. And a lot of them are far more recent, and far better than anything from Alpha Protocol. Gaider is growing, Chris isn't.

Really? Cause I find Avellone's HK-47 much better, if a little less comedic. Not that I dislike the more outwardly socoipathic cracks and threats of Gaider's version. Far from it But I think much of Gaider's writing are relatively on the same level of NWN 2, which is nowhere near the level of the best stuff in MotB or KotOR II from a writing standpoint. I havent played AP (yet) but spy thrillers generally have more archetypical characters than the philosophical fantasy or sci fi Avellone normally writes, so I'm not surprised that the characters arent on a Kaelyn level. I'm not sure about the overall writing level, but people do seem pleased with it the further they get into it. When Gaider write something as good as Kreia's dialogue or Kaelyn's character or the intial confrontation with Atrius (examples that arent from Planescape, which utterly wrecks the comparison and is a bit unfair since it's Avellone high point so far), I'll put them on the same level.

Also Morrigan? Zevran? Pick someone clever like Shale or that has some depth like Jolee. And I think Irenicus has more potential then was utilized. He could have been a really great villian but he ends up not living up to it.

 

[subversus]

wtf

Spoiler

how do you beat Omen Deng in the boss fight with him?

damn I wish I had brought my shotgun on this mission...

Spoiler

I maxed out my melee skill and beat him in less than a minute.

 

[HK-47]

I don't about that. AP's plot works because of the way it handles decisions, the characters themselves are mostly Rockstar style genre archetypes.

Much of Gaider's writing is archetypal as well though. Hell, he is part of the reason those Bioware plot and character trait charts exist. Not that I'm saying archetypes are bad.

 

[Cep]

I don't about that. AP's plot works because of the way it handles decisions, the characters themselves are mostly Rockstar style archetypes.

Well it is sort of pointless to try and compare Alpha Protocol's characters to those other characters.

AP's writing is not really character-centric (for lack of a better word), as you said, it is mainly about decisions and events.

Which is why I did not make a character to character comparison, but a general 'writing quality' one (and truth be told, this too is pointless).

 

[HK-47]

Bad memories of disciple coming back (Thank god for the handmaiden mod)...

Disciple is clearly tacked on where as Handmaiden is much more relevant and is better written. Plus she has Grey DeLisle as a voice actor. Thats just about instant win right there.

 

[firehawk12]

Bad memories of disciple coming back (Thank god for the handmaiden mod)...

It's funny, because you could see there was much more development on the Handmaiden/Visas triangle. (Although I'll admit that Atton is the best love interest in the game)

I don't want to cause a shitstorm or seem politically incorrect, but the fact that Gaider is gay does give him an adavatange as a writer in writing good females characters and love interests (both sexes), he sees things from various perspectives that straight males do not.

Hah, well, that may be it. And as uncouthly as it may sound, you just need to point to Sex and the City and Desperate Housewives as examples in non-game media of gay men writing women fairly well (I actually wrote a paper about Marc Andreyko's Manhunter somewhat based on the idea of gay men writing women for a class a couple of years ago :lol).

Certainly there's a different aesthetic that Gaider has that no one else seems to be able to employ.

 

[Basileus777]

Much of Gaider's writing is archetypal as well though. Hell, he is part of the reason those Bioware plot and character trait charts exist. Not that I'm saying archetypes are bad.

I wasn't really trying to criticize Avellone. Alpha Protocol is a different setting and is structured differently than your typical fantasy RPG. The writing in the game reflects that. It's not the right title for the standard long chats about history and philosophy that WRPGs give you to develop characters. The writing in the game is well-done, but the characters themselves aren't especially deep due to all of these factors.

Well it is sort of pointless to try and compare Alpha Protocol's characters to those other characters.

AP's writing is not really character-centric (for lack of a better word), as you said, it is mainly about decisions and events.

Which is why I did not make a character to character comparison, but a general 'writing quality' one (and truth be told, this too is pointless).

I took your comment to refer to the characters. We are pretty much in agreement then.

 

[Sinatar]

Just got done my first real mission in Saudi

Spoiler

the airfield

. Quickie initial impressions: Haters gonna hate I guess. I am absolutely digging the shit out of this. The Deus Ex comparisons are very very apt.

 

[HK-47]

I don't want to cause a shitstorm or seem politically incorrect, but the fact that Gaider is gay does give him an adavatange as a writer in writing good females characters and love interests (both sexes), he sees things from various perspectives that straight males do not.

I think thats mainly cause he is one of the few writers that actually tries it. Easy to seem good when you are the only one trying. I dont find his romance dialogue that great though, and its not helped by really awkward romantic scenes, of which the DAO sex scenes are the worst. Avellone himself doesnt like writing romance (though his explanation why is hilarious and a bit cynical. He clearly isnt a romantic).

 

[Cep]

Much of Gaider's writing is archetypal as well though. Hell, he is part of the reason those Bioware plot and character trait charts exist. Not that I'm saying archetypes are bad.

Expanding on this, AP has the great skeletons and uses them to great effect. It does not seem deficient because the game does not demand for more, but at the same time, the characters do not stand favorably when compared to characters that did need to be more than the base archetypes (and and had a chance to become more. The AP story not only does not need its characters to expansive, it has no space to allow it).

Disciple is clearly tacked on where as Handmaiden is much more relevant and is better written. Plus she has Grey DeLisle as a voice actor. Thats just about instant win right there.

Amen.

Although, being better written than Disciple is not really saying much. Handmaiden was still severely lacking (I cannot remember if she was better or worse than Visas...It has been a long time).

 

[Basileus777]

Some of the problems in the narrative are due to the fact that you barely interactive with some of these characters. I'm not going to care what happens to someone I've had three conversations about spy stuff with. It's just not especially problematic because it's a spy game that's only about 10 hours long.

 

[HK-47]

I wasn't really trying to criticize Avellone. Alpha Protocol is a different setting and is structured differently than your typical fantasy RPG. The writing in the game reflects that. It's not the right title for the standard long chats about history and philosophy that WRPGs give you to develop characters. The writing in the game is well-done, but the characters themselves aren't especially deep due to all of these factors.

I have read that people are enjoying them though. Even if the pace and style dont allow you the depth and personal time to figure out a character that party centric RPGs do.

 

[MannahContana]

Really? Cause I find Avellone's HK-47 much better, if a little less comedic. Not that I dislike the more outwardly socoipathic cracks and threats of Gaider's version. Far from it But I think much of Gaider's writing are relatively on the same level of NWN 2, which is nowhere near the level of the best stuff in MotB or KotOR II from a writing standpoint. I havent played AP (yet) but spy thrillers generally have more archetypical characters than the philosophical fantasy or sci fi Avellone normally writes, so I'm not surprised that the characters arent on a Kaelyn level. I'm not sure about the overall writing level, but people do seem pleased with it the further they get into it. When Gaider write something as good as Kreia's dialogue or Kaelyn's character or the intial confrontation with Atrius (examples that arent from Planescape, which utterly wrecks the comparison and is a bit unfair since it's Avellone high point so far), I'll put them on the same level.

Also Morrigan? Zevran? Pick someone clever like Shale or that has some depth like Jolee. And I think Irenicus has more potential then was utilized. He could have been a really great villian but he ends up not living up to it.

To be far Gaider did come up with HK, so that should be worth something. Back on point Its all about perspective, to me Zevran as a character has far greater depth to someone like Jolee, and that might sum up our differences in this matter, different perspectives, to me Jolee did have alot of the old man sterotype which I see alot of in Avellone's recent work. Kreia on the other hand was a great character for her greyness as much as anything. Something Gaider has thankfully introduced into Bioware games that has become too black and white for my liking.

I still stand that Gaider's characters seem to be getting better more complex while Avellone hasn't produced anything great for awhile. Dragon Age and NWN2 for example, theirs no comparison between the characters IMO (Elanee, Neeshka, Bishop as memorable as a tooth ache) but I did enjoy the narrative stucture of NWN2 far more than the Bioware formula of DAO.

Its personal opinion, Avellone created a masterpiece 13 years ago. As my coach tells me thats all good but what have you done for me lately.

 

[Cep]

Train-wreck of a post

Ugh, my English is worse than usual today.

Some of the problems in the narrative are due to the fact that you barely interactive with some of these characters. I'm not going to care what happens to someone I've had three conversations about spy stuff with. It's just not especially problematic because it's a spy game that's only about 10 hours long.

True, and the game seems to be aware of this somewhat.

The characters that it makes/expects you to care for are the ones that have been around a good while (at the least, they always try to engineer circumstances so that you care. Even with little exposure. Ex: Sis).

 

[firehawk12]

I think thats mainly cause he is one of the few writers that actually tries it. Easy to seem good when you are the only one trying. I dont find his romance dialogue that great though, and its not helped by really awkward romantic scenes, of which the DAO sex scenes are the worst. Avellone himself doesnt like writing romance (though his explanation why is hilarious and a bit cynical. He clearly isnt a romantic).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnek4GxFeds

That's the cut DSF ending. It's certainly hammy, but it's still my favourite KoTOR1 ending because it adds depth to the DSF that really isn't found much elsewhere in the game.

This is more embarrassing, but he also wrote a fanfic denouement for a LSF KoTOR1 ending for the fangirls: http://www.kotorfanmedia.net/node/702

Also, hammy and overwrought, but it really touches at the heart of the Carth/Revan relationship (duty, trust and love).

 

[HK-47]

Amen.

Although, being better written than Disciple is not really saying much. Handmaiden was still severely lacking (I cannot remember if she was better or worse than Visas...It has been a long time).

Nah she was pretty good. Had some interesting issues with her relations and a really nice twist about who her mother is if you put the pieces together. And people dig at Visas being weak, but thats like giving the writing an A plus. She was a broken person who latches onto the Exile, which also has interesting storyline implications for those that think about the Exile's "special abilities." Poor Bao Dur though. A good chatacter with relevance to the plot that got half the character development he needed and weird ass VA work.

 

[Cep]

Nah she was pretty good. Had some interesting issues with her relations and a really nice twist about who her mother is if you put the pieces together. And people dig at Visas being weak, but thats like giving the writing an A plus. She was a broken person who latches onto the Exile, which also has interesting storyline implications for those that think about the Exile's "special abilities." Poor Bao Dur though. A good chatacter with relevance to the plot that got half the character development he needed and weird ass VA work.

Okay then, it has really been too long.

I should definately swing back for another (modded) playthrough.

Still, I distinctly remember Visas being...incomplete, but perhaps I was simply not paying enough attention to her. Kreia and Atton took all my time (funny enough, my party always consisted if Visas and Handmaiden).

 

[Acosta]

I think thats mainly cause he is one of the few writers that actually tries it. Easy to seem good when you are the only one trying. I dont find his romance dialogue that great though, and its not helped by really awkward romantic scenes, of which the DAO sex scenes are the worst. Avellone himself doesnt like writing romance (though his explanation why is hilarious and a bit cynical. He clearly isnt a romantic).

:lol That Avellone is not a romantic? False! Let the man speak for himself:

I prefer hate-mances. Or unrequited miserable expressions of pseudo-affection that hint at the underlying struggle of the human soul to put a lofty veneer on a nerdly dream of having dirty sex with that hot chick in your Algebra class.

See? You can't be more romantic than that.

 

[Cep]

See? You can't be more romantic than that.

:lol

 

[Basileus777]

I have read that people are enjoying them though. Even if the pace and style dont allow you the depth and personal time to figure out a character that party centric RPGs do.

The characters are mostly enjoyable, I didn't mean to imply they weren't. They just aren't as fleshed out as the cast of longer RPGs. It works fine for this game, especially since there are things you can learn about the characters from doing things differently in subsequent playthroughs. The length and pace of the game really makes it easy to replay it for those kinds of things.

 

[MannahContana]

Their's actually an interesting mobcast with Avellone on it. Every guest on the podcast has to bring thier own topic and Avellone's topic is 'Why do writers suck', he goes on to say 'I've been in a self hating mood recently'. Summed up his character.

Link: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378801

 

[HK-47]

To be far Gaider did come up with HK, so that should be worth something. Back on point Its all about perspective, to me Zevran as a character has far greater depth to someone like Jolee, and that might sum up our differences in this matter, different perspectives, to me Jolee did have alot of the old man sterotype which I see alot of in Avellone's recent work. Kreia on the other hand was a great character for her greyness as much as anything. Something Gaider has thankfully introduced into Bioware games that has become too black and white for my liking.

I still stand that Gaider's characters seem to be getting better more complex while Avellone hasn't produced anything great for awhile. Dragon Age and NWN2 for example, theirs no comparison between the characters IMO (Elanee, Neeshka, Bishop as memorable as a tooth ache) but I did enjoy the narrative stucture of NWN2 far more than the Bioware formula of DAO.

Its personal opinion, Avellone created a masterpiece 13 years ago. As my coach tells me thats all good but what have you done for me lately.

Lately he did Kaelyn and one other main character for MotB (doesnt really matter which other character it is since they are all excellent, just Kaelyn is the best) plus AP, and the mostly excellent party in KotOR II (minus Disciple and the lack of Bao Dur infleunce dialogue, but adding in people like Atrius, his Revan, and the deliciously flawed evil of the HK-50s, who are pretty much Gaider's HK-47. Sad that so much of their stuff wasnt in the initial game release.)

 

[Cep]

The characters are mostly enjoyable, I didn't mean to imply they weren't. They just aren't as fleshed out as the cast of longer RPGs. It works fine for this game, especially since there are things you can learn about the characters from doing things differently in subsequent playthroughs. The length and pace of the game really makes it easy to replay it for those kinds of things.

Other than Madison

Spoiler

I let her die

, I think the way I have played has given me a pretty clear/full picture of all the characters.

Speaking of which, the dossiers do a fantastic job presenting the characters.

I personally really like Conrad (really wish he could have been expanded).

 

[HK-47]

Okay then, it has really been too long.

I should definately swing back for another (modded) playthrough.

Still, I distinctly remember Visas being...incomplete, but perhaps I was simply not paying enough attention to her. Kreia and Atton took all my time (funny enough, my party always consisted if Visas and Handmaiden).

Handmaiden is always in my party. She is a ridiculous melee character.

You know whats weird though. Handmaiden is clearly the more developed and interesting character yet the Exile is canonically female. Clearly this calls for lesbianism!

 

[subversus]

Avellone himself doesnt like writing romance (though his explanation why is hilarious and a bit cynical. He clearly isnt a romantic).

At least romance in AP doesn't feel awkward. Not very deep, but it doesn't have a mechanical feel about it.

 

[Cep]

Lately he did Kaelyn and one other main character for MotB (doesnt really matter which other character it is since they are all excellent, just Kaelyn is the best) plus AP, and the mostly excellent party in KotOR II (minus Disciple and the lack of Bao Dur infleunce dialogue, but adding in people like Atrius, his Revan, and the deliciously flawed evil of the HK-50s, who are pretty much Gaider's HK-47. Sad that so much of their stuff wasnt in the initial game release.)

These two were amazing.

As for Atrius, I do not remember her being that good (though I loved her relationship with the exile).

Again, it has been 6 years (and I was only 14 at the time and barely spoke English), so perhaps I am forgetting something.

 

[HK-47]

Their's actually an interesting mobcast with Avellone on it. Every guest on the podcast has to bring thier own topic and Avellone's topic is 'Why do writers suck', he goes on to say 'I've been in a self hating mood recently'. Summed up his character.

Link: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378801

lol reading the thread reminds me that Avellone has a serious thing for Chrono Trigger. Loves that game.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Here are my thoughts so far after 3 hours and finishing the training and Saudi Arabia first mission:

- Frame rate isn't smooth
- Camera messes up too often
- Controls don't always work correctly
- Sometimes the enemies just stand there looking at you instead of moving

And yet even with all of those negatives it really is an awesome game. Its extremely fun. The stealth is very rewarding. I can see the story being interesting. The amount of customization, weaponry, etc. is fantastic. If you can look past the negatives and there are a few, you will be able to experience an extremely entertaining game.

 

[MannahContana]

Lately he did Kaelyn and one other main character for MotB (doesnt really matter which other character it is since they are all excellent, just Kaelyn is the best) plus AP, and the mostly excellent party in KotOR II (minus Disciple and the lack of Bao Dur infleunce dialogue, but adding in people like Atrius, his Revan, and the deliciously flawed evil of the HK-50s, who are pretty much Gaider's HK-47. Sad that so much of their stuff wasnt in the initial game release.)

Agree, why I can bring myself to credit KOTOR II, too angry at that stuff. I have high hopes for New Vegas.

 

[Basileus777]

Other than Madison

Spoiler

I let her die

, I think the way I have played has given me a pretty clear/full picture of all the characters.

Speaking of which, the dossiers do a fantastic job presenting the characters.

I personally really like Conrad (really wish he could have been expanded).

Spoiler

You didn't miss much by letting Madison die

On my second playthrough

Spoiler

I was able to do things like get Parker/Marburg to become allies

that I couldn't do in my first game. Playing through the ending sequence again

Spoiler

to see what happens when you join Halbetch

was also pretty interesting.

 

[HK-47]

These two were amazing.

As for Atrius, I do not remember her being that good (though I loved her relationship with the exile).

Again, it has been 6 years (and I was only 14 at the time and barely spoke English), so perhaps I am forgetting something.

If you need a good analysis of the characters and plot I cant recommend Scorchy's screenshot LP of it enough. Maybe you wanna save it for after a new playthrough but I just think it ties the story together nicely in a way it deserves rather than what Obsidian, Lucasarts and the game itself allowed.

Its on lparchive.

 

[Cep]

Here are my thoughts so far after 3 hours and finishing the training and Saudi Arabia first mission:

- Frame rate isn't smooth
- Camera messes up too often
- Controls don't always work correctly
- Sometimes the enemies just stand there looking at you instead of moving

And yet even with all of those negatives it really is an awesome game. Its extremely fun. The stealth is very rewarding. I can see the story being interesting. The amount of customization, weaponry, etc. is fantastic. If you can look past the negatives and there are a few, you will be able to experience an extremely entertaining game.

The Shit: Awesome ratio is present in its usual Obsidian fashion.

Feels like playing, PS:T/Bloodlines/NWN2/KOTOR2 all over again.

If you need a good analysis of the characters and plot I cant recommend Scorchy's screenshot LP of it enough. Maybe you wanna save it for after a new playthrough but I just think it ties the story together nicely in a way it deserves rather than what Obsidian, Lucasarts and the game itself allowed.

Its on lparchive.

:lol @ Jedi Jesus.

Thanks, I will definitely give it a read.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I played some of the taipei missions with a friend, and there were some fun moments for sure. I have still ran into some silly stupid glitches. Pay for a sniper rifle in a mission and when I try to grab it my character somehow spins 10 feet in the air, drawing the attention of all the guards.

I died at that part and then when we reloaded all the guards were gone, the first 'room' empty. WTF

 

[Basileus777]

I played some of the taipei missions with a friend, and there were some fun moments for sure. I have still ran into some silly stupid glitches. Pay for a sniper rifle in a mission and when I try to grab it my character somehow spins 10 feet in the air, drawing the attention of all the guards.

I died at that part and then when we reloaded all the guards were gone, the first 'room' empty. WTF

The checkpoint system is this game is fucked up in all sorts of strange ways. Expect strange spawning issues, enemies going hostile even when they shouldn't be, and if you save in the hub, don't expect it to remember anything you've done since the last mission.

 

[Cep]

Has anyone been not been using stealth?

I at first felt it to be broken, but then I remembered all the crap the game made me go through in order to non-lethal through...

Suffice it to say, I am having a ball sucker punching entire rooms of dudes with Shadow Agent + Brilliance.

Still not a single orphan created or a life taken (sent lots of dudes to the ER though...).

 

[Basileus777]

Has anyone been not been using stealth?

I at first felt it to be broken, but then I remembered all the crap the game made me go through in order to non-lethal through...

Suffice it to say, I am having a ball sucker punching entire rooms of dudes with Shadow Agent + Brilliance.

I made a quick run through the game with a combat focused character to unlock veteran, mostly because it's the only way to get through the game in 5 hours. And yeah, playing as a stealth character is much more fun, though the bosses are much easier if you don't.

 

[Peff]

In hindsight, I think the character being genre archetypes is probably what Avellone wanted to achieve. The game is marketed as "create your own espionage blockbuster" and you have two or three movies worth of characters to choose from. They all feel familiar, but not overly so, just enough to help set the mood, I'd say.

 

[Cep]

I made a quick run through the game with a combat focused character to unlock veteran, mostly because it's the only way to get through the game in 5 hours. And yeah, playing as a stealth character is much more fun, though the bosses are much easier if you don't.

Really?

I have not found this to be the case.

The hardest one was the one at the end of Rome and he only remained difficult until I realized it was safe to use steel rounds(instead of tranqs) on him since you cannot technically 'kill' bosses in combat.

Chain Shot + Shadow Agent + Brilliance trivializes them all.