never forget.
Legendary hardware.
But like back then, i'm always going with the performance king with better software and these days it has usually been nvidia. The next amd cards look very interesting though.
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AMD/NVIDIA market-share graph. Spoiler Alert: it ain't pretty.
- Thread starter Pickles Spill
- Start date
Legendary hardware.
But like back then, i'm always going with the performance king with better software and these days it has usually been nvidia. The next amd cards look very interesting though.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
oh my bad, that's a simple mistake, because higher is better is generally the correct usage for their graphics. but tweaktown is legit, and those tests are valid.
PoweredByHentai
Member
And I never said that I was talking about you. If it wasn't clear enough, I was saying that your example source is incompetent at best and sketchy at worst.
Because, think about it, how does anyone screw up something so simple and critical as the values for Temperature?
If you want to argue your point, then I suggest that you consider using Anandtech.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
so you are saying my source is invalid because of a simple easily overlooked error in their graphic? how about you focus on the actual numbers instead of disregarding data that doesn't fit your narrative.
it's always something with you nvidia people.
Backseat modding? No, I thought I'd just give you an advice as a junior member. I didn't call for you to get banned or anything.
Why are you so offended? I didn't do anything to you.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Do you know what confirmation bias means?
Man, that sucks. While I'm really happy with my 770, this makes me regret I haven't bought an r9 instead :/
I never had any problems with AMD/Radeon cards. Just wanted to see what that whole "way it's meant to be played" thing was all about and yeah, Shadowplay, Shieldstreaming... are nice, but tbh I never used them.
That recent credibility blow in mind, my next card will probably be AMD.
If that's all you got from their posts, that's kinda telling.
I never had any problems with AMD/Radeon cards. Just wanted to see what that whole "way it's meant to be played" thing was all about and yeah, Shadowplay, Shieldstreaming... are nice, but tbh I never used them.
That recent credibility blow in mind, my next card will probably be AMD.
AMD fanbase have been always the funniest of them all.
If that's all you got from their posts, that's kinda telling.
michaelius
Banned
If the only new card in 300 series is 390 and everything else is rebrand then this is not going to change since top end is only a minor part of market.
Also I feel like AMD has become the BUT company - everything they do has some more or less serious flaw in addition to often being late.
And so on...
So despite fond memories of 9700/4850 I'm not touching any modern amd gpu unless they can provide at least 15-20% performance advantage at the same price.
Also their marketing makes them look like company of butthurt losers often too concentrated on throwing crap at competitors instead of showing storong points of their gpus.
Also I feel like AMD has become the BUT company - everything they do has some more or less serious flaw in addition to often being late.
- 290/290X was solid chip on release BUT they put that shitty reference cooler on it
- 290/290X might be similar in performance to 970 BUT you are putting 250-300W gpu vs. 150-200W one that is often half passive
- their low end GPUs offer better performance than 750/750 ti BUT you need to run them with i5 cpu
- When they finally get their equivalent of geforce experience/shadowplay it uses some 3rd party bloatware
- They fixed framepacing in dual gpu setups BUT their crossfire profiles are often late
- They add downsampling to drivers BUT it's restricted to only few resolutions
- They release Freesync finally BUT it's not working with crossfire and turns out to be worse solution
- They make the oh so open Linux drivers Linus loves them BUT performance sucks compared to Nvidia
And so on...
So despite fond memories of 9700/4850 I'm not touching any modern amd gpu unless they can provide at least 15-20% performance advantage at the same price.
Also their marketing makes them look like company of butthurt losers often too concentrated on throwing crap at competitors instead of showing storong points of their gpus.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
I got nothing from his posts because I have already read a lot of literature about the subject.
When you have so many sources on the net about some product and you stick religiously to only one, it smells fishy. Usual AMD fanbase behaviour.
Windom Earle
Member
After from switching from AMD to Nvidia I never looked back, sad to say but true.
Now throw in a demeaning pun and congrats, you are basically on the same level.
PoweredByHentai
Member
How about you take a fucking chill pill instead of mouthing off at anyone who points out inconsistencies in your arguments?
I don't know about Tweaktown and have never heard of it until you posted those images. So seeing the Temperature chart having a glaring mistake is obviously NOT going to give me a good impression of how professional they are.
I don't disagree with the actual numbers involved and at this point I am beginning to not give a fuck about it if I have to put up with hyper aggressive asshats like you.
Why don't you read this instead and learn to grow the fuck up about what is considered to be informative and professional:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review
IMACOMPUTA
Member
I'm not denying their greed.
It's simply how business works.
When one company is selling a comparable product for 30-40% more money and destroying the competition, you really need to look at the competition.
I switch vendors often. My first 3D card was a ATI Riva 128, it sucked in Quake 2 compared to a friends 3dfx, so I bought a Voodoo 2 next.
I base my purchase on price and performance, not loyalty. So I went with a AMD 7950 last time. It was faster than Nvidia's card at that price point (250 , 660 Ti). I got 4 free games additionally, for two of them it saved me paying the full price (Bioshock Infinite, Crysis 3).
I do not regret my purchase, I haven't had any problems with driver stability or performance. GeDoSaTo fixed my issues with missing downsampling. I missed not having Shadowplay, but even that works in Raptor now.
I will upgrade later this year when the requirements for VR are known, so I hope both AMD and Nvidia will release good stuff.
I base my purchase on price and performance, not loyalty. So I went with a AMD 7950 last time. It was faster than Nvidia's card at that price point (250 , 660 Ti). I got 4 free games additionally, for two of them it saved me paying the full price (Bioshock Infinite, Crysis 3).
I do not regret my purchase, I haven't had any problems with driver stability or performance. GeDoSaTo fixed my issues with missing downsampling. I missed not having Shadowplay, but even that works in Raptor now.
I will upgrade later this year when the requirements for VR are known, so I hope both AMD and Nvidia will release good stuff.
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
or how about you stop linking to reviews and tests of reference designs, which throttle under load and run hot. did anandtech review a sapphire 290/290X? did anandtech compare it with an aftermarket overclocked 970 and 980? if the answer is no, then anandtech are the ones being unprofessional and/or deliberately biased (which, i might add, isn't a new thing for Anand Lal Shimpi, he's got a very huge apple bias, among other things, so why should i trust his site over another?)
EDIT: i see that he hasn't reviewed a single aftermarket 290/290X at all, but has done several aftermarket nvidia reviews. this shows a clear bias.
PoweredByHentai
Member
On an unrelated note, I get the feeling that Nvidia named itself after one of the seven deadly sins, namely Invidia (envy).
As for AMD/ATI, I've always felt that their problems are entirely organizational, more on the executive side of things than the engineering side of things.
Yep, that was the last time I went ATI and it was great. I switched with the Geforce 8000 series and have been with NV since, as a whole package AMD's cards have never quite convinced me.
never forget.
I do hope they somehow claw some market share back though with their upcoming cards -- it's not like anyone else can simply enter the discrete GPU space.
CouchMaster
Member
Good job clubbing everyone together. The hivemind right?
Kelli Lemondrop
Banned
huh, i totally didnt see that on the first few pages. my mistake. in any event, anands numbers for sapphire 290 series cards match tweaktowns. which makes tweaktowns comparisons to the 970/980 clearly valid, and once again proves my point. there is a tdp difference, it isn't 100 - 200 watts like nvidia fans claim. the cards run at similar temperatures and with similar noise levels, when comparing aftermarket overclocked parts across the board.
What scratched my head even more the moment AMD bought ATI i went on why? Why did this even happen? Seeing how huge NVIDIA is and to me the lack of drivers for amd is another thing right or am i wrong in terms of driver updates and new futures? I did had a amd gpu last year...just for a couple of months and to be honest i went back to nvidia because options and drivers at least to me are better.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The irony of this post
Felix Lighter
Member
I feel it's important for all PC fans, including Nvidia fans, that a competitive AMD exists. While I think Nvidia's products have been quite good, Nvidia the company has shown that they will leverage their marketshare advantage in ways that do not really benefit the consumer. AMD is the only company that has any chance to keep them in check and if that chart is accurate, I find it a bit worrying.
Prophet Steve
Member
I'd like AMD to be able to compete a bit better since it seems pretty clear that Nvidia aren't pushing themselves as much as they can. I don't like the value proposition of the GTX 980 and the TitanX, but there is little competition at that price range, especially when you are talking about single GPUs.
Even when you would take into account multiple AMD GPUs to compete with those products you are likely better off using multiple Nvidia GPUs instead. Unless you really want to have two GPUs in one card.
In the mid-range AMDs products seem close to me price performance-wise compared to Nvidia. However, at launch the power consumption, power load and noise were completely awful and they haven't really been able to shake off that reputation. And then we have Nvidia who made good progress on those aspects of their GPUs.
And if you do overclock some of the AMD GPUs those aspects can get pretty bad too. And even if the price, performance, heat, power consumption and overclocking capabilities would be the same (which would be a big if) then you still have the matter of which software you prefer and I'd consider DSR, G-Sync and Shadowplay a lot more polished than the AMD equivalents.
It seems that everything AMD is doing now is about catching-up, but they don't provide a good reason for people to choose them over Nvidia, all they are doing is trying to provide an equivalent.
Even when you would take into account multiple AMD GPUs to compete with those products you are likely better off using multiple Nvidia GPUs instead. Unless you really want to have two GPUs in one card.
In the mid-range AMDs products seem close to me price performance-wise compared to Nvidia. However, at launch the power consumption, power load and noise were completely awful and they haven't really been able to shake off that reputation. And then we have Nvidia who made good progress on those aspects of their GPUs.
And if you do overclock some of the AMD GPUs those aspects can get pretty bad too. And even if the price, performance, heat, power consumption and overclocking capabilities would be the same (which would be a big if) then you still have the matter of which software you prefer and I'd consider DSR, G-Sync and Shadowplay a lot more polished than the AMD equivalents.
It seems that everything AMD is doing now is about catching-up, but they don't provide a good reason for people to choose them over Nvidia, all they are doing is trying to provide an equivalent.
While I completely agree with your post overall, this sentence reads a bit silly. Every company "will leverage their marketshare advantage in ways that do not really benefit the consumer" -- e.g. AMD hasn't not done so because they are such nice people there, they haven't done so because they can't currently.
Felix Lighter
Member
Yes, you're right, I'm sure that is the case.
PoweredByHentai
Member
You do realize that Anand Lal Shimpi has not been involved with reviewing video cards since... FOREVER, right? (I am exaggerating here.) He has other people more qualified than him reviewing these cards and that is a good thing. Also, the guy left Anandtech last year.
Reference cards are important to understanding the basic performance of a GPU regardless of who manufactures it. They are also an important indicator of any potential design flaw in the product because every manufacturer has to stick with the reference design.
What you are advocating is for everyone to look at only the good things of a specialized/outsourced card while disregarding what the specialized card shares in common with its basic/reference design both good and bad. This is like telling me that I should totally trust in a car engine component for a GM vehicle that is made by a 3rd party while completely ignoring the fact that the basic design of that component was fundamentally flawed per GM's own designs.
UnrealEck
Member
The last AMD card I bought was when they were ATI and it was the X800XT PE. That was like 2004 or something.
I don't buy AMD now because I don't think their drivers are up to scratch, their CF support seems like it might be worse and their own effects library isn't supported as much in games as nVidia's.
Their cards lately have been pretty competitive hardware wise. They're usually not quite as good as nVidia's but they are cheaper. But the 900 series just let nVidia use AMD's head as a stepping stone to leap up from even further.
I don't buy AMD now because I don't think their drivers are up to scratch, their CF support seems like it might be worse and their own effects library isn't supported as much in games as nVidia's.
Their cards lately have been pretty competitive hardware wise. They're usually not quite as good as nVidia's but they are cheaper. But the 900 series just let nVidia use AMD's head as a stepping stone to leap up from even further.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Hopefully the 3xx series brings the price/performance. If Nvidia keeps dominating then the GPU market is going to slow down even more and get even more expensive...
Fahrenheit
Banned
I get confused when people talk about things like user experience. I get that AMD lacks PhysX but is that really that big of a deal? For the 3 or 4 games that come out a year that supports it? Whats this smoothness people talk about? My 290x runs things smooth as silk. When it's just person after person repeating these hard to quantify statements about smoothness and user experience it's hard for me not to take these statements as anything more then fanboy talk.
I buy whatever card makes the most sense at the time. So wasn't that long ago I had a Geforce card and t be honest I can't really tell a difference in end user experience.
I buy whatever card makes the most sense at the time. So wasn't that long ago I had a Geforce card and t be honest I can't really tell a difference in end user experience.
I bought a 7970 when I got back into PC gaming. It had problems driving two monitors when one used HDMI and the other DVI. Apparently it was some archaic issue that AMD also had in the past. The only solution I found online was to flash the card with a modified BIOS.
No thanks; back to the shop it went.
Moved to an Nvidia 760. Much smoother experience. Upgraded to a 970. Found out about the 3.5 GB RAM issue and wasn't too pleased with how Nvidia responded.
Back to the shop it went.
Yeah, I've been rocking Intel graphics ever since.
No thanks; back to the shop it went.
Moved to an Nvidia 760. Much smoother experience. Upgraded to a 970. Found out about the 3.5 GB RAM issue and wasn't too pleased with how Nvidia responded.
Back to the shop it went.
Yeah, I've been rocking Intel graphics ever since.
never forget.
I had one of those!
IMACOMPUTA
Member
This is something that I feel goes over many peoples heads.
There are a handful of posters in this thread that seem to feel the need to fight for AMD as if they're misrepresented underdogs.
Using the tactic of bashing Nvidia to make AMD look better is poor strategy given that in order to have a better Nvidia, we need AMD to do a better fucking job.
Theonik
Member
Windows Vista was an absolute clusterfuck on the driver front for much of its life on account to making major changes in the Windows Kernel at the time. Pretty much everything had problems at the time and it pretty much wiped out companies like Creative which was a shame because their EAX audio was quite great.
Dictator93
Member
Last ATI card I had was an X800XT: it was awesome even though it was only SM 9.0b.
But since then I have only gone with NV GPUs... and for good reason, everything about them is better. Sorry AMD, you are still playing catch up :/
The funny thing is, I dont even consider buying AMD hardware ever any longer. The last time I considered it was around the R600 era, but we know how that turned out.
But since then I have only gone with NV GPUs... and for good reason, everything about them is better. Sorry AMD, you are still playing catch up :/
The funny thing is, I dont even consider buying AMD hardware ever any longer. The last time I considered it was around the R600 era, but we know how that turned out.
It's the same as any burgeoning monopoly. It's important that people buy AMD products to keep them competitive but you need a large group of people who put market health above their own needs. That will never happen.
It's only going to get worse the more people grow accustomed to Nvidia's software offerings. AMD is stuck in the unfortunate position of having to make a significantly better product with less resources.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
But... But... I have a lot o AMD stuff bought with my money!
Think I only had one AMD/ATI card ever, and that's the Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro. Fantastic card though, and one of the first times I spent a lot of money on a card. Perhaps even the first card I ever bought, unless I'm mistaken.
Since then I've been nVidia green. I bought a laptop with an AMD card once, but after upgrading the drivers, I couldn't get the control panel for the card to open. I traded that laptop in for a Lenovo with an nVidia card instead.
I may just have been unlucky, and I try to do a little research whenever I need to decide which camp I'm spending my money in. So you never know, perhaps next time I need to upgrade is a good period for AMD.
Being loyal to one or the other though is pointless. I just go where the grass is the greenest at the moment, and most of the times it seems nVidia has the upper hand.
Since then I've been nVidia green. I bought a laptop with an AMD card once, but after upgrading the drivers, I couldn't get the control panel for the card to open. I traded that laptop in for a Lenovo with an nVidia card instead.
I may just have been unlucky, and I try to do a little research whenever I need to decide which camp I'm spending my money in. So you never know, perhaps next time I need to upgrade is a good period for AMD.
Being loyal to one or the other though is pointless. I just go where the grass is the greenest at the moment, and most of the times it seems nVidia has the upper hand.
Portugeezer
Member
Lol, Nvidia doesn't even have to try, and they won't, because of this they will continue to overprice their hardware... we saw signs of this in the 970 when they gimped the amount of good VRAM in it, then tried to pass it off as a good feature. And some people even defended it. I mean, what more could they do, go for 80 or 90 %? Nope.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Are you encouraging consumers to knowingly buy an inferior product en masse in order to prop up a failing business for no other reason than to prop up a failing business? I'm sure that the poor, malnourished AMD executives would appreciate you fighting the good fight, comrade.
Tons of people are in this camp. This camp where they shit talk on AMD without having owned one of their products. As someone who builds multiple rigs and owned at least 10 of both AMD's and Nvidia's GPUs over the past 5 years, I personally would say much of the perceived shittiness of AMD is just forum talk like this. There have been some great AMD cards over the past years, including times where AMD was clearly the better value purchase in different price ranges.
You can look at reviews and find plenty of very highly rated AMD cards on various sites that actually have experience with the variety of options that are out there.
I say all this as someone currently using a Nvidia card in my personal system. I'm not someone who wants either company to be the market leader, I have no particular love for either company. Nvidia cards are generally a smoother experience I will grant, but AMD cards are not some horrible mess. Personally my largest attachment to Nvidia right now is Gsync, if I did not have a Gsync monitor I would be very anxious to see what the 300 series brings.
AMD does itself no favors on multiple fronts. Their reference designs hurt the cards perceptions because the first wave of reviews has to deal with their shitty loud coolers and perpetuates the idea that AMD cards are too hot and loud even if third parties find ways to fix both issues down the line. The initial press is damning, and being late to put out their new generation of cards is also really hurting them. Nvidia is running unopposed in the realm of new flashy cards, even if you can find better value in AMD's 290X. The 290X is old, had a bad first release, and no one wants to spend their money on a card that is over a year old.
Dictator93
Member
I don't personally own AMD hardware, but I build tons of rigs for other people using their stuff. I am also building my opinion off of my experience with that.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I think that Nvidia cards are overpriced for the performance they give. And I think anyone that denies this - as harsh as it sounds - is contributing in a small way to the current desktop GPU situation of premium prices for incremental performance increases every cycle. At least on the Nvidia side. This is not a good thing, obviously.
The 980 is way overpriced. Same with the 970. And the Titan X should not have released at $1000 when it is still significantly slower than the year+ old R9 295X2, which can be had for $850? (not sure about the US price atm).
I like you.
The 980 is way overpriced. Same with the 970. And the Titan X should not have released at $1000 when it is still significantly slower than the year+ old R9 295X2, which can be had for $850? (not sure about the US price atm).
nvidia cards aren't any quieter than their amd counterparts if you ignore reference coolers (almost nobody has a reference 290/290X, and nobody is making/selling them anymore). they draw more power, true, but nvidias quoted TDP figures are far far too conservative, the cards often exceed them under load, where AMD cards rarely hit their TDP figures (unless overclocked). its just another way nvidia is lying to people really. I have a 290X in a silverstone RVZ01B case, heat isn't an issue, at all, so stop spreading fud please.
would you look at that, aftermarket 290X is quieter than a GTX 970? you don't say?
what's that? 290X only uses 30 - 60 watts more than GTX 970? not the 150+ more watts people are constantly claiming? come on get real with that nonsense about heat/power and noise.
what's this? the aftermarket 290X runs cooler than the GTX 970 (and thus 980 as well)? Gee.......
I like you.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
Anandtech is the gold standard for tech reviews, calling them biased is laughable. They praised ATI/AMD plenty, though only when they have release good or competitive products such as the 9700pro, x800, 1900xtx, HD4870, HD6970, HD7970. AMD is biggest problem is that they not released a card that has taken the performance crown by a significant margin or has been the best card for anything more than a single quarter for a long time (I would say 9700pro was the last great card they had and that was ATI). I hope the 390x HBM rumors are true, because it could be the advantage that AMD needs to be competitive again.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
It's exactly the same thing today.
Prime crotch
Banned
My latest AMD card failed me hard, so I just went with a 970gtx and called it a day
9500 fo life!
I put my rive tuner on there and wham! best board ever
never forget.
9500 fo life!
I put my rive tuner on there and wham! best board ever