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[llien]

Makes me wonder if the 5500XT doesn't have more juice, but they simply didn't change anything because nVidia didn't really react.

Well, why, NV released 1660super.
The theory goes that AMD would drop pricing on 5500 series after Polaris inventory is sold.

 

[PhoenixTank]

Not sure why you say that I'm splooging over it. I'm simply speaking from the fact that we know it's the future of real-time graphics, and we know how important it will be to accelerate it...

I love how you downplay the technology because (it's not currently in your GPU of choice) it's a "first gen RT card" and people "will have to upgrade anyway" to RT at 4K... like as if that is anything but an arbitrary self-imposed target you personally want to hit. Guess what? People have to buy new cards to play at higher resolutions and faster framerates even without RT!!!! And you immediately handwave the notion of using reconstruction techniques to hit those self-imposed targets too... You wont accept anything other than true native 4K!

When companies release new technologies to the world.. let's take 4K TVs for example.. they were expensive, and weren't very well supported with content to take advantage of them. So are those companies which create and push technology not supposed to create them because they are "first generation" and wont be as good as the future TVs that would come after? lmao... I think you see where I'm going with this...

There's a necessary process that hardware technology has to go through to become viable.. you have to release a product to get the ball rolling. The tech itself IS exciting.. because it's the future. You don't have to be excited about it right now, but that doesn't change the fact that much like 4K TVs now...we're not going back to old 1080p TVs. While people will continue to play games at varying resolutions for performance reasons.. the GPU hardware line has been crossed.. and accelerating RT will be something we don't come back from.

Fact? Perhaps a likely, but yet to be proven fact for everyone else. You're also throwing phrases like "on fanboy shit" at P Panajev2001a of all people.
You've also managed to miss my point entirely, in that we're not "locked out of the conversation" without dedicated RT hardware.
I'm glad you're basing your view of my opinion on my GPU, definitely adds credibility Should I assume you have a 2000 series card and are biased towards a feature you possibly overpaid for? Nah, that'd be bad spirited discussion, don't you think?

As for 4K gaming. I don't see it as an arbitrary target. We almost hit a reliable 4K60 with a 1080Ti, but 2080Ti aside, performance has stagnated since then and with the introduction of RT, even regresses. DLSS is better than nothing, but given the quality and how it is set up on a per game basis, I don't see it as enough to make up for performance with RT on. I haven't handwaved all reconstructive techniques ever, just that DLSS isn't good enough.
1440p high refresh is unfortunately still the sweet spot. I'd like to see that be improved upon.
Before I get shit on again, why did I just discount the 2080 Ti? Too far into obscene Titan territory pricing. Pull that down to normal pricing and you have a winner or a real flag bearer for RT.

I'm well aware of how tech adoption & advancement works. Did you miss how I mentioned the race has barely started, or that I expect large improvements from Nvidia? Thank you for the condescending refresher?

Tone down the BS and actually read what the rest of us are saying without so much ready confrontation. I can't take you seriously otherwise.

 

[thelastword]

And none of it will matter if Navi drivers aren't fixed.

I'm on adrenalin 2020 and I've had no issues, people blow these things out of proportion, especially NVidia fans, besides anybody who had issues, a new update has fixed all of it...….Go to the youtube channel Ancient Gameplays, the first adrenalin update was no big issue...…..

It seems AMD intentionally lowered engineering spec, waited for NV to react, then bumped it up. (10 watts is nothing)
(12 => 14gps jump of Ram is particularly peculiar)

And, heck, this is basically 5700 die for $279, yields must be good at TSMC.

At this point AMD knows they have to plan ahead to counter Nvidia, because they are now reacting to every AMD GPU release, so they always have some extra headroom ready to go......I think their biggest surprise and headroom will be with NAVI 2, all the Nvidia fans thinks that Ampere is a straight homerun and that big Navi won't compete, but I happen to think the lowest end big Navi will be strong enough to take on the 2080ti...….(the 5800XT), then they have 5900, 5950, 5950XT to take on Ampere's highest end......

I'm thinking

5800>= GTX 2080/S
5800XT >= 2080ti
5950>= 3080
5950XT>= 3080ti

The rest will follow through, on the lower end sku's where AMD will always be able to wiggle better price to performance over Nvidia......The battle is on...…….

Makes me wonder if the 5500XT doesn't have more juice, but they simply didn't change anything because nVidia didn't really react.

They did, it's Nvidia, they've reacted to everything AMD has to offer, they released the 1660S to counteract the 5500XT, the 1660S even makes the 1660ti redundant......Nvidia the market leader is only reacting as opposed to leading and setting a standard......Like Intel, they will not be able to keep up with AMD after RDNA 2.0 hits, AMD will always be ahead after that point....I expect huge marketshare improvements with RDNA 2.0, launching just ahead of the RDNA 2.0 consoles, games will run better on these cards, since that's the tech most devs will be gravitating to...…After that RDNA 3.0 will be nest on the cards and be the death knell for Nvidia, in perf and also the majority stake in the market......just as Ryzen 3 will be against intel in all areas of performance...….AMD planned all of this pretty well.....They focused highly on architecture for both the CPU and GPU and by the third iteration, they were aiming for dominance in both CPU and GPU markets......


It's strange, but the 5500XT/5500 was supposed to be 580/570 replacements at lower powerdraw and that it is, the only thing standing in it's way is the price, but they're holding off still till all 580/570 cards are depleted, maybe around Big NAVI's launch.....The
5600 series destroys Turing NON RTX, hence why Nvidia had to put their entry RTX card to compete with a card which was suppose to go against the 1660ti..........Remember the 5700 was suppose to go against the 2060, but now Nvidia has pegged it back to compete with the 5600XT......AMD has more wiggle room in the price department to contest Nvidia.......Nvidia can no longer price gouge......2060 was once $349 and now it's $299, because the 5700 decimates it as that AMD card is more on par with the 2060S.....You can get a 5700 for $309 on Amazon, whilst the cheapest 2060S I'm seeing there right now is $400......Whatever NV does they are still behind, because you can easily flash the 5700 to be go way past the 2060S at $100 less, so far less a vanilla 2060 at $299..........


Oh! and RTX on a 2060, LOL, farless at 299, where you can get a much superior AMD card for $10 more....Either way AMD has the better value.....5700 > 2060+2060S on price to perf........

 

[Self_Destructive]

Fact? Perhaps a likely, but yet to be proven fact for everyone else. You're also throwing phrases like "on fanboy shit" at P Panajev2001a of all people.
You've also managed to miss my point entirely, in that we're not "locked out of the conversation" without dedicated RT hardware.
I'm glad you're basing your view of my opinion on my GPU, definitely adds credibility Should I assume you have a 2000 series card and are biased towards a feature you possibly overpaid for? Nah, that'd be bad spirited discussion, don't you think?

As for 4K gaming. I don't see it as an arbitrary target. We almost hit a reliable 4K60 with a 1080Ti, but 2080Ti aside, performance has stagnated since then and with the introduction of RT, even regresses. DLSS is better than nothing, but given the quality and how it is set up on a per game basis, I don't see it as enough to make up for performance with RT on. I haven't handwaved all reconstructive techniques ever, just that DLSS isn't good enough.
1440p high refresh is unfortunately still the sweet spot. I'd like to see that be improved upon.
Before I get shit on again, why did I just discount the 2080 Ti? Too far into obscene Titan territory pricing. Pull that down to normal pricing and you have a winner or a real flag bearer for RT.

I'm well aware of how tech adoption & advancement works. Did you miss how I mentioned the race has barely started, or that I expect large improvements from Nvidia? Thank you for the condescending refresher?

Tone down the BS and actually read what the rest of us are saying without so much ready confrontation. I can't take you seriously otherwise.

Yes, fact.

I didn't miss your point... I said you'd have to upgrade if you want to even be part of the conversation... not that you're "locked out." When AMD releases GPUs and markets the capability it wont be about who has it, it will be about who does it better. I can't wait for that time to be here

"The race has barely started" is true.. and yet that doesn't make my statement about the 5700 series any less true. The 5700 series doesn't support it and will essentially be disqualified from the race.

And yes, you ARE imposing arbitrary standards for the technology to meet before you deem it acceptable.

Boiling it down... your whole hook is that "tech improves with time... you should wait till it's better" Which doesn't move technology forward at all. Even if they waited until the gen after this upcoming gen when GPUs were FAR more powerful... guess what? Rasterized visuals would be at the point where people's expectations (your arbitrary standards) would be even higher still... and by virtue of the technology itself being demanding.. would have to be scaled back. RT doesn't come for free...no matter how far into the future you're willing to wait..

Again... I'll point back to the analogy I made about TVs.. If nobody released 4K TVs because mostly all the content was just 1080p... then the technology would never improve. If nobody released 4K TVs because the prices would be too high for most consumers in the beginning... then the technology would never take off. You saying that "first gen RT GPUs" don't meet your standards does NOT change what the technology itself is... a fundamental change to GPU design and visual rendering, which very clearly segments GPUs into those that do, and those that don't.

The 5700 series doesn't.

 

[PhoenixTank]

Yes, fact.

In your opinion, it is a fact. Time will tell.

Boiling it down... your whole hook is that "tech improves with time... you should wait till it's better" Which doesn't move technology forward at all. Even if they waited until the gen after this upcoming gen when GPUs were FAR more powerful... guess what? Rasterized visuals would be at the point where people's expectations (your arbitrary standards) would be even higher still... and by virtue of the technology itself being demanding.. would have to be scaled back. RT doesn't come for free...no matter how far into the future you're willing to wait..

Fallacy. My not running out to buy a 2080Ti does not prevent Nvidia & AMD from releasing, working on and improving the tech.
Because of how RT (and RTX) works and that performance scales pretty predictably with pixel count I don't buy that argument at all either. Generation after next (Nvidia 4000, let's say) we're still not doing 8K60 or anything insane with or without RT. We've spent decades on raster, there is so much more scope for RT catch up now that it is getting development time.

I still don't understand where in gaf's green earth are you picking up the idea that my argument is along the lines of "it isn't good enough yet, so they shouldn't bother at all or until it is 100% ready". In reality, for a bunch of us, it isn't good enough and widespread enough yet, so we won't put much weight on the feature when buying, whereas it seems to be drastically more important to you than others. You too have arbitrary standards as to what is acceptable... and without intending to be snobby, they are apparently lower than mine for resolution and framerate for the money. That said I'm glad your higher standards for image quality regarding non-faked reflections and non-baked lighting are being met? Preferences are fine - I just don't agree with it being the second coming of gaming graphics just yet.

I do think at this point it has very practical applications for ray traced rendering workloads i.e. not gaming. Reducing the loop time between setup -> preview and back again is going to help a lot of industries.

The 5700 series doesn't.

Again, we have no idea what DXR fallbacks AMD will implement in their drivers and for which cards. We have no idea if AMD's version will even be compatible with what is out there already, and vice versa.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Fallacy. My not running out to buy a 2080Ti does not prevent Nvidia & AMD from releasing, working on and improving the tech.
Because of how RT (and RTX) works and that performance scales pretty predictably with pixel count I don't buy that argument at all either. Generation after next (Nvidia 4000, let's say) we're still not doing 8K60 or anything insane with or without RT. We've spent decades on raster, there is so much more scope for RT catch up now that it is getting development time.

Why do you think it's getting this development time? lol... because Nvidia released products developers can play with and learn on....

I still don't understand where in gaf's green earth are you picking up the idea that my argument is along the lines of "it isn't good enough yet, so they shouldn't bother at all or until it is 100% ready". In reality, for a bunch of us, it isn't good enough and widespread enough yet, so we won't put much weight on the feature when buying, whereas it seems to be drastically more important to you than others. You too have arbitrary standards as to what is acceptable... and without intending to be snobby, they are apparently lower than mine for resolution and framerate for the money. That said I'm glad your higher standards for image quality regarding non-faked reflections and non-baked lighting are being met? Preferences are fine - I just don't agree with it being the second coming of gaming graphics just yet.

You're literally just said it's not good enough. You essentially ARE saying they shouldn't bother until it's ready. How do developers learn to code for it if not getting their hands dirty with it? My point about you having an arbitrary standard of what is acceptable wasn't insinuating that we all don't have standards. But no matter what generation, if you take a game that runs at 4K fine.. then add RT to it... you're going to have performance loss. It's unavoidable. And I DO have high standards... which is why I expect more from AMD.... but I also have realistic standards given my knowledge of RT technology and how demanding it is.

Again, we have no idea what DXR fallbacks AMD will implement in their drivers and for which cards. We have no idea if AMD's version will even be compatible with what is out there already, and vice versa.

What do you even mean "no idea if AMD's version will even be compatible with what is out there already?

Don't tell me you're one of those "AMD's RT implementation will render Nvidia's obsolete" people?

 

[Kenpachii]

Kinda pointless card, should just have dropped the 5700 in price.

 

[PhoenixTank]

You're literally just said it's not good enough. You essentially ARE saying they shouldn't bother until it's ready

No I'm not essentially saying that. You're stating obvious things back at me and convincing yourself I don't agree with them. If you haven't gotten it by now I don't think I can help you without derailing this thread even further.

 

[llien]

then they have 5900, 5950, 5950XT to take on Ampere's highest end......

That leak, if it was based on that Russian retailer, is just a meaningless placeholders.

Now, anything can happen, but having 7nm DUV Big Navi. makes little sense timing wise.
7nm EUV big Navi, on the other hand, should be 6xxx series.

Kinda pointless card, should just have dropped the 5700 in price.

AMD had huge gap between 5500 and 5700 series. This card fills it.
Had it been pointless, NV wouldn't be forced to drop 2060's price.

 

[llien]

Welp, clearly, part of the plan:

PowerColor also announces Radeon RX 5600 XT with 14 Gbps memory - VideoCardz.com

PowerColor updates Radeon RX 5600 XT specs to 14 Gbps Last week we reported that AMD has released a new vBIOS for Radeon RX 5600 XT graphics card. The first board partner to quickly change the specs was Sapphire. The new BIOS increases TBP to 160W (from the original 150W). It also unlocks 14...

videocardz.com

 

[Kenpachii]

That leak, if it was based on that Russian retailer, is just a meaningless placeholders.

Now, anything can happen, but having 7nm DUV Big Navi. makes little sense timing wise.
7nm EUV big Navi, on the other hand, should be 6xxx series.


AMD had huge gap between 5500 and 5700 series. This card fills it.
Had it been pointless, NV wouldn't be forced to drop 2060's price.

What makes you think anybody gives 2 shits about 2060. the card is a utter joke and they even released that dumpster fire for 400 bucks when it came out. Its a 6gb v-ram module 1080 gpu. If you wanted that performance u where better of just straight up buying a 1070ti with warranty with 8gb v-ram modules on it for 200 bucks. Pay 50 more and u sit at 1080ti results because the entire market was streamrolled with second handed cards anyway through mining.

That's how i ended up with a 1080ti, still 2 years warranty, 5 months used or something now. runs like a charm.

The fact that this card competes with a 2060 is just bad. They should have aimed for 2060 super solution which is really the entry level 2000 series gpu's and even then its a hard sell with 1080's now going for 270 in the second handed market with warranty. A brand new gpu from amd with 8gb v-ram module and better performance, newer architecture for 250 would have been a lot more interesting and actually forced that 2060 super price down hard towards the 250 price point it should have been on and replaced the entire 1660 lineup with 2060 so nvidia's series actually makes sense again.

That's why i said, its a pointless card that fights against a pointless other card, they should have pushed the 5700 down in price and actually force nvidia's hand, because the 5600xt for people that don't care about v-ram makes the 5700 kinda pointless anyway.

Why 8gb v-ram? its most likely going to be the new minimum when next gen games hit as its already now for 4 years a thing.

 

[llien]

The fact that this card competes with a 2060 is just bad.

AMD has a wide gap between 5500 and 5700 which needs filling.
5600 looks like a 2060 (at least) perf card for $20 less.

 

[TaroYamada]

I'm on adrenalin 2020 and I've had no issues, people blow these things out of proportion, especially NVidia fans, besides anybody who had issues, a new update has fixed all of it...….Go to the youtube channel Ancient Gameplays, the first adrenalin update was no big issue...…..

I truly wish this were the case, sadly it's not and their help forums demonstrate that. https://community.amd.com/thread/243837?messageTarget=all&start=1250&mode=comments

I bought a 5700 XT, wish I'd done more research into the state of the drivers. I assumed I'd be okay because my R9 285 was largely stable, not so. Witcher 3 is a mess on this card.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I truly wish this were the case, sadly it's not and their help forums demonstrate that. https://community.amd.com/thread/243837?messageTarget=all&start=1250&mode=comments

I bought a 5700 XT, wish I'd done more research into the state of the drivers. I assumed I'd be okay because my R9 285 was largely stable, not so. Witcher 3 is a mess on this card.

I hang out at the AMD subreddit as I'm a proud owner of a 3900X and there are many, many complaints about the state of their GPU drivers. When I install and play a game on my 1080 Ti, it just works. I'm constantly surprised that after all these years AMD GPU division can't get their shit together.

 

[Rentahamster]

According to Gamers Nexus, this move was actually not good for AMD, perception wise.

 

[GreatnessRD]

Gamers Nexus was talking about it at CES this year. Said they (AMD) were acknowledging some of the complaints about the drivers and that Adrenaline 2020 was supposed to remedy those situations. Hope they are back in the lab to fix it for folks. Because I've said before, I won't ever have interest in their cards until I see solid proof that their drivers are no longer a dumpster fire. The 5700XT looked awesome and I was ready but after looking onine... no sir.

 

[thelastword]

I truly wish this were the case, sadly it's not and their help forums demonstrate that. https://community.amd.com/thread/243837?messageTarget=all&start=1250&mode=comments

I bought a 5700 XT, wish I'd done more research into the state of the drivers. I assumed I'd be okay because my R9 285 was largely stable, not so. Witcher 3 is a mess on this card.

I'm not saying some people did not have issues, but this was a huge update with many many features, not a regular driver update......Also you know that for every driver update, some persons have issues one way or the other, all our configs are different, the software we have installed are all different, it's PC, anything can trigger anything.....It's not out of the ordinary that some people are having issues after any driver, AMD or NV, but even moreso Nvidia in the last few years....

Personally, I'm still on the initial adrenalin update have not installed the new one, I have no issues, before my current AMD GPU, I had an Nvidia card, which always crashed games sometime back, you know how many hotfixes, NVidia has had to release over the years......There was a period, where every Nvidia driver over a space of time was a huge mess, you go and check it out......

This adrenalin update brought so many new features and improved on many, I think the tech press should be talking about that instead......When it's Nvidia, they forget about it's driver issues and talk up DLSS, where is DLSS now.....When Nvidia had integer scaling everybody talked it up, but AMD brought it in this new update and nobody talks about it anymore, how many tech people talked up Radeon Chill or the improved UI, Wattman and UI features, how many talked up Radeon Boost...….When RIS launched and decimated DLSS, how many people covered it, then when NV reacted and brought their own sharpening, they said NV's version offers tweaking of the sharpness, RIS improved RIS with an intensity scale and much more, not a word...…How many talk about HBCC, how many talk about Radeon Anti Lag, NV said they had anti lag like what AMD for years, but yet they still had to go and try to mimmick something which is still not as good as AMD's solution...…..

It's just like Jensen saying, what's a card without RTX, but he is reacting to every single RDNA card which has no RTX...…..These driver issues are just things people blow out online, you go the to NV forums, there are even more issues......A big update came, some people were trying to use it's features, they try to game, watch videos, web browse at the same time, who knows how much memory they had or a whole list of unique issues with their rig or if they are on the latest windows update......It's PC, it could be a whole list of issues contributing, still the issue you quoted is now fixed, so what's the problem, no software update is 100% problem free for all these PC configs out there.....Also at this point AMD's software and UI is miles beyond Nvidia....in both looks, accessibility and features……...

 

[Ascend]

I truly wish this were the case, sadly it's not and their help forums demonstrate that. https://community.amd.com/thread/243837?messageTarget=all&start=1250&mode=comments

I bought a 5700 XT, wish I'd done more research into the state of the drivers. I assumed I'd be okay because my R9 285 was largely stable, not so. Witcher 3 is a mess on this card.

Random black screens although annoying, is not exactly the worst issue there is. And honestly, that link doesn't prove anything. The same can be done for nVidia's cards.

Click here

 

[Rentahamster]

More in depth look at AMD's shenanigans.