Then it sounds like Arrow Lake needs to do more than offer "better" gaming performance at a lower power consumption for you to be happy. (Depending on the review the 9700X can offer lower power consumption than the 7700X while being faster).
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AMD Ryzen 9000 “Zen 5” Desktop CPU Prices Leaked: 9950X $499, 9900X $399, 9700X $299, 9600X $229
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Its not really something I'm concerned about though, I'll just wait till its out and evaluate then, not sure why its a big deal.
If it's only 2-3% faster than the fastest Raptor Lake in gaming, the top 2 SKUs would still probably be 10-13% faster than my 13600K, so no, it really has to fail badly in gaming for me to be disappointed, as I plan on jumping up the i7 tier, which is clocked a bit higher than my i5 and still would offer better ST and MT, while not costing too much more since I have a Microcenter where I think I can get a bundle discount.
Useless talking about at this point though, I'll probably know my plans when Intel first party is announced, as my accuracy for extrapolating from first party benchmarks has been pretty spot on this year.
Now, you're going back and seem to be saying a 2-3% increase is fine! So it comes back to my point about it being fine for Arrow Lake but not fine for Zen 5.
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Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Zen4 was already behind Raptor Lake though, that's why Zen5's 2-3% was especially bad.
2-3% for Intel would be bad too, but not as bad, as that would still be a bit ahead Zen5.
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OverHeat
« generous god »
Zen4 include the 3D chips same for Zen5…
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
But those haven't launched on Zen5 yet.
We can only compare non-3D to non-3D today. Today Zen4 to Zen5 is a 2-3% gain in gaming.
Hoping X3D turns out better
You said Zen 5 was abysmal for not offering an upgrade from Zen 4. I don't see how the same logic doesn't apply to Arrow Lake, unless there are big improvements elsewhere. In which case Arrow Lake does need to offer more than "better" gaming performance at a lower power consumption. (The current benchmark leaks indicate 10%-15% better multithreaded performance for Arrow Lake, which doesn't seem hugely far from Zen 5's upgrade).
marquimvfs
Member
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
The reason Zen5 was abysmal for me is the following.
All Zen5 CPUs today at best trade blows with my overclocked 13600K
All Zen5 CPUs today seem to use more power in light tasks like web browsing (seemingly 20 or more watts constant energy wastage for low power tasks)
My overclocked 13600K beats the more expensive 9700X in several MT scenarios
9950X (which I might have bought if it turned out better) has to deal with the same dual CCD setups that dual CCD X3D chips had last gen
Zen5 would be a downgrade for me, with my 2022 CPU, in these areas. That's why I avoid it.
I want a CPU that improves upon what I have today, and I can't imagine a scenario where Arrow Lake doesn't improve enough things to make it worthwhile for me, but if that did happen, I could always just get a 13900K/14700K (massive MT upgrade, and still more than 2-3% improvement in gaming over what I have today)... but I really don't think it will come to that...
Funny how you fail to see that Zen4 +2-3% trades blows with my overclocked 13600K, while Intel +2-3% would be 10-13% better than my current CPU.
Zen4 +2-3% would be a regression for Arrow Lake.
There is no contradiction, only a misunderstanding on your part...
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marquimvfs
Member
Oh, so you know how to overclock? Good for you. But that's not the point. You still move the goalpost to fit your narrative, to prove Intel is better anyway. Faster or not, plenty of people aren't as blind as you and see the other advantages those processors have and don't fall for your bullshit narrative.
Everyone here can see that, to meet your standards, a processor needs an Intel sticker over it. You don't need to pretend not to be an fanboy anymore.
You keep saying that you had AMD too, but, as yourself have said, you only entered the ecosystem by convenience, as you earned one processor. But, not even by using and updating that platform you could overcome your prejudice, and keep lying to yourself (and others here) to feel good over your choice.
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Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I never moved goalposts, reread what you quoted.
If Arrow Lake launches and is only 2-3% faster than Zen4 in gaming, I would say it is abysmal as well.
That statement means a regression for Arrow Lake.
That is different than what I said in this thread. If Arrow Lake launches and is 2-3% faster than Raptor Lake, it is bad, but not as bad as Zen4 +2-3%...
Shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend...
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
That's you making things up again, because you didn't have all the info. Before getting the free CPU with bent pins I had already bought an 8-Core when they were on firesale, I think they were going for $150, something really cheap. The free bent pins CPU came later, and I ended up flipping it (after fixing it) as I had no use for two of the same CPUs.
Zen1 was okay despite its abysmal gaming performance, I liked it even because back then 8-cores meant something on desktop, and that was the last Zen CPU I had with overclocking headroom (without losing ST performance).
Hated Zen2. Zen3 was good, but shortly after Intel CPUs were a lot better for my needs.
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LavitzSlambert
Member
Leonidas
are you getting paid time and a half for your double shift today? Gelsinger killed the dividend so I hope there's at least enough to keep you compensated.Seriously, what the actual fuck - are you just on all day, don't you have any games to play or other shit to do? Are there ANY other topics that interest you? My brain simply cannot accept anyone gives this much of a shit about CPU brands ALL THE TIME.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Its not hard for me to alt/tab out of a game and post, yes, I did several other of my other non gaming, non PC related hobbies today, including getting a bit of exercise as well
Seriously, what the actual fuck - are you just on all day, don't you have any games to play or other shit to do? Are there ANY other topics that interest you? My brain simply cannot accept anyone gives this much of a shit about CPU brands ALL THE TIME.
The Mad Draklor
Member
It's downright obsessive and perhaps, creepy on top of that. Much of his posts hinge on Trust Me Bro™ and it's not that difficult to sniff out his nonsense. And now that his little remaining credibility fizzled out, this is what he does most of the time: being terminally online.
Seriously, what the actual fuck - are you just on all day, don't you have any games to play or other shit to do? Are there ANY other topics that interest you? My brain simply cannot accept anyone gives this much of a shit about CPU brands ALL THE TIME.
Oh, and his absence regarding the Intel 13th and 14th gen CPU failures was also extremely telling.
The Mad Draklor
Member
And the predictable "I'm a victim" post. Like clockwork.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Almost as predictable as me entering a PC thread and me being attacked, my name was mentioned in this thread before my first post, you guys seem obsessed with attacking me
The Mad Draklor
Member
Yeah, and the difference between predictable and almost predictable is that between lightning and a lightning bug.Almost as predictable as me entering a PC thread and me being attacked, my name was mentioned in this thread before my first post, you guys seem obsessed with attacking me
You know, if you want to make a nice comeback, maybe not cry "Wah, I'm a victim" a second time in a row...
marquimvfs
Member
That's because people do take you very seriously in here... /s
LavitzSlambert
Member
Its not hard for me to alt/tab out of a game and post, yes, I did several other of my other non gaming, non PC related hobbies today, including getting a bit of exercise as well
I'm very glad to hear that. Not sure what you are going on about as "personal attacks" though. Do you mean how people can't take your posts seriously and say things like you being Intel PR? Those aren't attacks, they are observations and harmless jokes based on your behavior on this forum. How can you blame anyone, practice some introspection dude. This is how you come across on GAF:
- You are consistently sighted, and almost exclusively, posting about AMD or Intel CPUs. I can't even remember a time seeing you post about anything else. For a video game enthusiast forum, one would imagine you'd engage more to talk about games themselves or the industry in general, but you seem to primarily use this place as some kind of trolling ground for low-effort CPU brand crusading. Wouldn't you be better off doing this on Anandtech, or Arstechnica, TechPowerUp, or any of the other tech enthusiast sites?
- It's not just a post or two, you are constantly posting and responding to every little comment in these threads. And not just here and there - the sheer amount of posting you do is frightening. Enough that other users recognize you and expect you to show up specifically in threads like this one. The amount of posts you've made in just this thread, today - it's absurd.
- Beyond the frequency and narrow minded nature of your posting pattern, the content itself is poor - the majority of your posts are completely delusional, with little to zero basis in reality. Half is pure conjecture, the rest poorly formed arguments and logical fallacies. And when there is finally something worthwhile to discuss (like the whole 13/14 gen Intel chip fiasco) you are somehow nowhere to be seen, or straight up denying facts.
- Your obsession is bizarre. Consider that you saw an article posted about a meager, insignificant sale on the 5000 series chips and decided to return to a month old thread about rumored MSRP (that turned out to be bullshit) that has not been active in over 3 weeks, all to respond to a post I made that somehow stuck with you.
elbourreau
Member
That's teh sad reality. Obsessional fanboys are not paid. They volunteer.
Seriously, what the actual fuck - are you just on all day, don't you have any games to play or other shit to do? Are there ANY other topics that interest you? My brain simply cannot accept anyone gives this much of a shit about CPU brands ALL THE TIME.
Zathalus
Member
He can’t play too many games dude, his CPU needs to remain idle a certain percentage of the day to make sure he is not forced to admit Zen has better power efficiency.
Seriously, what the actual fuck - are you just on all day, don't you have any games to play or other shit to do? Are there ANY other topics that interest you? My brain simply cannot accept anyone gives this much of a shit about CPU brands ALL THE TIME.
In the quote I'm talking about, you didn't say Zen 5 was abysmal for you, you said it was abysmal for "most users".
Zen5 Review Thread.
Man, I really hope Intel is paying you, because otherwise “just why.gif”… 😂 They're paying him with shares, that's why he's upset lately.
The same should be able to apply to Arrow Lake, if you are being consistent. Unless you're just going to say that you only care about what "most users" get, when AMD is involved, and when it's Intel all that matters is your personal upgrade decision. Like you have a special "concern" for AMD fans getting a bad deal.
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Von Hugh
Gold Member
We have a term for that here, and it is 'concern trolling'.
Leonidas is probably already banned from all the tech forums, that's why he is trolling here and spreading nonsense.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
The rumour might be fake but those prices are what these CPU's should have launched at for being so fucking mid.
AMD don't deserve to be defended for this.
AMD don't deserve to be defended for this.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
And both are are true statements.
Of course it does, happy?
I just can't imagine it happening, and I'm not sure why you would entertain such an unlikely scenario.
Interesting words coming from someone who mentioned my name in this thread without me even being present at the time.
KEEP MY NAME OUT YOUR F---ING MOUTH
Your post actually didn't stick at all actually. I just found it funny because I happened to look back on page 1 where you seemed so happy, mentioning my name and taking a unprovoked cheap shot at me, as if Zen5 pricing affects me in any way, to you becoming disappointed when the leak was fake
I bumped this thread not because of you, but because the prices will eventually reach the ones in the OP, maybe even this year if the sales continue to be as abysmal as they currently are, I wonder which CPU will hit the fake leak price first
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
This thread sucks. Can’t Leonidas and ya’ll fuck off in PMs?
The Mad Draklor
Member
And it's still a ticking time bomb regardless...