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[Sinistral]

I am starting out yeah, which is why I'm thinking taking the price cut opportunity on this 480 is a good idea now if I find I need to upgrade in the future.
I'll probably see more of a difference in the fact I'm using a Ryzen 1700 in my work than CUDA...

Hm.

-EDIT- Sorry to shit up the thread somewhat, but this is all relevant to Ryzen in the end, and I do need the advice here! Thanks to everyone that's helping!

If that's the case. Expenses is already a factor. You mentioned UE4 as well. Maya, Arnold and UE4

Let's say...

Rendering and Texture Baking with Arnold for game assets will entirely be on the CPU.
Photoshop and After Effects the, CPU will kill it there as well, GPU will be a non-factor IMO.

Maya's FX tools are still CPU bound.

Substance Painter and Designer, ZBrush, all CPU. Inexpensive but solid tools.

All this will be done on a $329 R7 Ryzen 1700 biting at the heels of the $1049 6900k.

GPU will only come into major effect when you can spend more money on Plug ins or software, multiple times the cost of a GPU at this point. Redshift, Octane, VrayRT, all US $500+ plug ins. NukeX, $9000...

GPU don't matter in this case, go with what you like.

 

[Coldfriction]

At this point I might just cram a peanut butter sandwich into the PCIE slot.

Ugh.

Peanut Butter power is how I grew up.

More seriously, by the time you'do need CUDA to make a significant difference in your work flow, you'll probably also need something other than a 1060 or a 480. $200 cards are gaming cards. You can get the 480, and sell it and still come out better ahead money wise than if you buy a 1060 and sell it. A good rule of thumb as to when you need pro hardware is that you need it when someone else would be willing to pay for it to speed you up, until then it's luxury.

Thanks for trying to bring the thread back on topic.

 

[Übermatik]

If that's the case. Expenses is already a factor. You mentioned UE4 as well. Maya, Arnold and UE4

Let's say...

Rendering and Texture Baking with Arnold for game assets will entirely be on the CPU.
Photoshop and After Effects the, CPU will kill it there as well, GPU will be a non-factor IMO.

Maya's FX tools are still CPU bound.

Substance Painter and Designer, ZBrush, all CPU. Inexpensive but solid tools.

All this will be done on a $329 R7 Ryzen 1700 biting at the heels of the $1049 6900k.

GPU will only come into major effect when you can spend more money on Plug ins or software, multiple times the cost of a GPU at this point. Redshift, Octane, VrayRT, all US $500+ plug ins. NukeX, $9000...

GPU don't matter in this case, go with what you like.

Peanut Butter power is how I grew up.

More seriously, by the time you'do need CUDA to make a significant difference in your work flow, you'll probably also need something other than a 1060 or a 480. $200 cards are gaming cards. You can get the 480, and sell it and still come out better ahead money wise than if you buy a 1060 and sell it. A good rule of thumb as to when you need pro hardware is that you need it when someone else would be willing to pay for it to speed you up, until then it's luxury.

Thanks for trying to bring the thread back on topic.

You're both right. If I wanted to go mental and had endless cash, it'd be a Quadro card anyway. Right now the AMD card fits my needs, and with the money saved I can buy a better IPS monitor.

Thank-you!

Anyway, back to Ryzen...

 

[Sinistral]

You're both right. If I wanted to go mental and had endless cash, it'd be a Quadro card anyway. Right now the AMD card fits my needs, and with the money saved I can buy a better IPS monitor.

Thank-you!

Anyway, back to Ryzen...

Yes a good monitor is just as important as everything else with this stuff. You can get one with FreeSync along with your great RX480 too. Win Win.

 

[opticalmace]

Neat little article PC Per posted...

PC Per: Overclocking the AMD Ryzen 7 1700

 

[Coldfriction]

Neat little article PC Per posted...

PC Per: Overclocking the AMD Ryzen 7 1700

I still find it odd everyone keeps showing the worst performing games as though that performance is typical. I guess driving traffic to your site is all about playing with emotions.

 

[·feist·]

ROG Crosshair VI overclocking thread
http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread/

ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero Extreme Overclocking Guide (Updated to v0.4)
http://overclocking.guide/asus-rog-crosshair-vi-hero-extreme-overclocking-guide/

I've had an 8c/16t AMD build since NDA lifted. It's fast, games well and chews up most everything I throw at it.

What's your build and are you reaching 4.1Ghz on air?

Stock for now.


CPU: Ryzen 7 1800X
MB: Gigabyte Aorus GA-AX370 Gaming 5 *
RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 32GB 3200MHz CL14 DDR4 2 x 16GB (F43200C14D32GTZKW)
GPU: 2x RX 480 8GB **
SSD: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB + 1x 250GB Evo & 2x 120GB Mushkin Chronos
HDD: HGST Deskstar NAS 3.5" 6TB 7200RPM SATA III 128MB Cache Internal Hard Drive
PSU: Seasonic SS-1050XP3 1050W 80+ Platinum
HSF: Temp **
KB/M: Logitech MX Master + Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard
CASE: Lian-Li PC-X510WX


I'd like to change the OS drive to a 500GB or 1TB Samsung 960 m.2.
* This is my first Gigabyte and was not the motherboard I had in mind. Initially I wanted either the Asus X370 Hero, MSI X370 X-Power or ASRock X370 Taichi. I have to stress that I have barely had time to try tweaking or dive into this build at all. Still, the motherboard has a very simplistic BIOS which feels laggy and lacks many features. In the brief handful of times I've tried (both stock BIOS and with a flash to the most recent beta BIOS) the board refuses to run my RAM at 3200MHz. To be fair, dense 2x16 sticks seem to be less than ideal for most AM4s boards in their current state. Not sure if I'll be keeping this board, though...

** Placeholder until big AMD Vega or big Nvidia Volta. Hoping Nvidia pass over a Pascal refresh.

*** Running my emergency backup/baseline heatsink — Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo w/140mm Phanteks fan (yes, 140mm). Currently have a Corsair H100i v2, Noctua NH-D15 and Phanteks PH-TC14PE (black) all unused. Not sure the Phanteks will clear my RAM, so I'm waiting for the Noctua AM$ kit to arrive before trying to install anything else. That way, if the Phanteks does in fact not clear, I'll have the NH-D15 ready to install in its place. The Corsair was an "emergency" buy, and is still new in its box. Very likely going to return it and change to an EK Predator 360 + AM4 kit.

If I do get the 360, the Noctua and Phanteks will serve as backups since all three should hold a 24/7 max overclock at the temp range I'd like to maintain.

 

[Steel]

Neat little article PC Per posted...

PC Per: Overclocking the AMD Ryzen 7 1700

Really interesting how easy it is to get the 1700 to outperform even the 1800x.

I still find it odd everyone keeps showing the worst performing games as though that performance is typical. I guess driving traffic to your site is all about playing with emotions.

Uh, no. PCper showed games where 8 core processors outperform the 7700k, so the games chosen should be great for Ryzen, but for one reason or another(software side issues, bios, lack of SMT support in windows), Ryzen doesn't seem to benefit from those games.

 

[·feist·]

DDR4 Memory Scaling on AMD AM4 Platform – The Best Memory Kit For AMD Ryzen CPUs
http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-me...latform-best-memory-kit-amd-ryzen-cpus_192259

 

[What A Time To Be Alive]

I still find it odd everyone keeps showing the worst performing games as though that performance is typical. I guess driving traffic to your site is all about playing with emotions.

Bro you gotta stop with this

 

[·feist·]

Simulated 4C/8T Zen -vs- Kaby Lake —— AMD Ryzen 7 1800X vs Intel Core i7-7700K version Core: Core and MHz: MHz [Thai original]
http://www.zolkorn.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-vs-intel-core-i7-7700k-mhz-by-mhz-core-by-core/
[English translation by author ZoLKoRn]

Hello all, This is a first article I try to publish in English version. However, one thing you should know before reading this article is I’m not expert on English so about the grammar some may not correct but I hope this will help you to understand more about this article better than using Google translate or other.

Today I will test in the way that I believe many of you would like to see. And it should help to make the result clearer or easier to estimate for the test in MHz to MHz and Core to Core of new CPU from AMD “RYZEN”, Which is going to compare with Core i7-7700K frome Intel. Some of you may not understand what I’m going to do? or what I am try to present? The test will take place in the form of MHz to MHz and Core to Core also included the same speed of the CPU from two models for RYZEN 7 1800X and Core i7-7700K to see or estimate that the power per MHz of each CPU.

The method that I will use for testing is I will disable RYZEN 7 1800X core to 4 cores from it all 8 cores as we already know in this ways we will have RYZEN 7 1800X working on 4 core 8 threads same as Core i7-7700K but we still can’t compare it. Because both CPU still have different on L3 Cache size. RYZEN 7 1800X have 16MB and 7700K have only 8MB. That mean 1800X has advantage on L3 cache. Even it not hundred percents comparison but we can assume or estimate something from this test. Because right now our RYZEN 7 1800X will be simulation of RYZEN R5 series as 1400X model. We already know from leaked news that AMD will have RYZEN 5 1400X with 4 cores and 8 threads.

 

[Renekton]

I'm still reading thru reddit to find info about whether the CCX thread issue is solvable thru scheduler update or is a permanent HW drawback. Not much luck 🙀

 

[Coldfriction]

Bro you gotta stop with this

I suppose I should. But it's like the news where all the stations seem to coordinate the worst news to show together. There is a massive echo chamber out there. I don't play those games, I would prefer to see Overwatch, Doom 4, or something else occasionally. There's got to be more games than the five everyone keeps focusing on. How does the PCPer article on overclocking show me what I get in the games that are having a problem on Ryzen? Does an overclock affect the games I play or not? Admittedly, there isn't a lot of time for these guys to test everything, but the specific games benchmarked are selected intentionally. A different set of games paints a different picture. I don't care if all the games show Ryzen terribly, but I do prefer large data sets, not small ones selected specifically to show a certain perspective.

I've also followed Ryan Shrout for a long while, and he's not unbiased in my opinion. Kyle Bennet has more recently changed his tune somewhat (AMD probably paid him to get up on stage the other day, which magically coincided with the change in his language on hardforums.com), so perhaps Ryan has as well. There are a number of people out there that you get a feel for after reading what they say over and over. The Stilt over at forums.anandtech.com was very pessimistic about AMD until this last December, and he's changed his tune almost 180 degrees. Being an unpaid forum poster, I trust what he says quite a bit and his technical deep dive is probably the best out there currently. Another one of the most sensible guys out there is Russionsensation when it comes to GPUs. That guy takes money into account when talking about hardware. He dissapears for months at a time though. Don't be a fanboy and pay attention to the long term perspective. I read forums such as this because I don't trust anyone that makes money through advertisements and pageviews to be objective. I generally skip the articles and go straight to the comments to see what effect the article has on people and whether or not the commentary shows the article to be solid or not.

Consider how AMD always gets the "Such and such is pretty nice, BUT it's flawed here." NVidia gets the "It's awesome all around!!" treatment and ignore the fact that it's $100 more than the stuff they're comparing it to.

If you don't believe me this happens, how often do you hear about Polaris burning up people's motherboards? Why was that THE biggest news of the Polaris launch? Shrout was right at the forefront of that nonsense.

 

[Sinistral]

I'm still reading thru reddit to find info about whether the CCX thread issue is solvable thru scheduler update or is a permanent HW drawback. Not much luck 🙀

You didn't find this on reddit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40h4skxDkh4

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm still reading thru reddit to find info about whether the CCX thread issue is solvable thru scheduler update or is a permanent HW drawback. Not much luck 🙀

Well the obvious way to find out is wait and see if a patch is issued for Windows 10.

The fact that Win7 and Lunicks are not affected by this problem suggest that the issue is that Win10 is a piece of shit.

 

[Coldfriction]

Well the obvious way to find out is wait and see if a patch is issued for Windows 10.

The fact that Win7 and Lunicks are not affected by this problem suggest that the issue is that Win10 is a piece of shit.

It's quite something to patch a kernel. Microsoft isn't going to provide a fix for Windows 10 until it's absolutely confident it doesn't break things. That confidence takes some time to obtain. I don't care for the data collecting nature of Windows 10, but it's not a bad operating system. AMD could have been a bit more on the ball, but nobody pays particularly strong attention to what the smaller players want in any industry. I worked in a factory once that made products for Wal-Mart, Kroger, Safeway, etc. and when Wal-Mart said jump, everyone else's orders were put on hold. That's the nature of reality, the dollar rules the world.

 

[·feist·]

G.skill's Flare X and Fortis memory and some rambling on Ryzen RAM compatibility [Buildzoid]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frw9HRwqODk


At launch, I had a conversation with someone about the 2-3 X370 mobos I wanted, mentioning the Aorus AX370 Gaming 5's lack of an external clock generator as one of the reasons why I didn't want one. We even touched on the Gaming K7's dedicated chip.

I needed to replace a dead PC, and neither of us could get our prefered board. In the end, we both went with a Gaming 5. I can't recall the last mid- to high-end motherboard I bought that didn't have a BCLK chip. With those I tried not to compromise as much as possible, though...

Unless I decide to move this over to an AM4 server build, the board is almost certainly going to be returned.

 

[TarNaru33]

You didn't find this on reddit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40h4skxDkh4

I am not too sure on this argument, can't people then just test it by disabling 4 of the cores? I see a benchmark done that above, so I guess it is just about seeing how much the SMT scheduler issue is hurting Ryzen performance? If this is the case, AMD needs to push for an update quickly before their CPU lose steam.

 

[·feist·]

Just your average gaming session with 16 threads "fully" loaded.


AMD RYZEN 1700 오버워치 + 녹스 게임 5개 동시구동 영상
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njm0MBOwFTM

"Overwatch + five games simultaneously"

DDR4 16GB

GTX1070

Overwatch option Best / Scale 100%

Knox Compatibility Mode Direct X Medium Option 720P

 

[Sinistral]

I am not too sure on this argument, can't people then just test it by disabling 4 of the cores? I see a benchmark done that above, so I guess it is just about seeing how much the SMT scheduler issue is hurting Ryzen performance? If this is the case, AMD needs to push for an update quickly before their CPU lose steam.

I agree, the sooner this issue is addressed, the better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5ycxwg/confirmed_microsoft_is_battling_the_ryzen_windows/

 

[Vipu]

Just your average gaming session with 16 threads "fully" loaded.


AMD RYZEN 1700 오버워치 + 녹스 게임 5개 동시구동 영상
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njm0MBOwFTM

"Overwatch + five games simultaneously"

Thats cool but useless

 

[Beerman462]

You're both right. If I wanted to go mental and had endless cash, it'd be a Quadro card anyway. Right now the AMD card fits my needs, and with the money saved I can buy a better IPS monitor.

Thank-you!

Anyway, back to Ryzen...

You can't go wrong with more VRAM. People can argue it's not needed for the power all day if they want. I have ran into VRAM limits with my last two GPUs. I couldn't run hihh textures on Batman AK, because of it and it was noticeable.

 

[Renekton]

You didn't find this on reddit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40h4skxDkh4

Yeah I was in the r/hardware topic about this. The vets are musing that it is a fundamental shortcoming and the W10 scheduler fix can at best mitigate this somewhat.

Also if scheduler tries to minimize migration to next CCX, I wonder if it slightly defeats the purpose of having many cores.

 

[·feist·]

Thats cool but useless

Nah, you may be focused a bit too much on the specifics of what he's doing. It's more a display of multi-tasking capability when you have enough CPU resources.


2 Gaming Rigs, 1 Tower - Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]
7 Gamers, 1 CPU - Ultimate Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]


Some users run:
- multiple VMs for testing, development, etc.
- mixed-use servers that are hit constantly
- encoding, compressing, processing of multiple large archives
- editing, various content creation work

and many others, including several automated tasks in the background while continuing to game or other PC use. It's helpful when you're able to run as many concurrent processes as you need to without getting heavily bogged down.

 

[Vipu]

Nah, you may be focused a bit too much on the specifics of what he's doing. It's more a display of multi-tasking capability when you have enough CPU resources.


2 Gaming Rigs, 1 Tower - Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]
7 Gamers, 1 CPU - Ultimate Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]


Some users run:
- multiple VMs for testing, development, etc.
- mixed-use servers that are hit constantly
- encoding, compressing, processing of multiple large archives
- editing, various content creation work

and many others, including several automated tasks in the background while continuing to game or other PC use. It's helpful when you're able to run as many concurrent processes as you need to without getting heavily bogged down.

Yes of course but does all programs even use different threads if you have 2 programs open and game?

 

[Mr Swine]

Is there a reason why AMD goes with a 4+4 core CPU design and not a true 8 core CPU all around?

 

[potatohead]

Just your average gaming session with 16 threads "fully" loaded.


AMD RYZEN 1700 오버워치 + 녹스 게임 5개 동시구동 영상
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njm0MBOwFTM

"Overwatch + five games simultaneously"

Awesome

This is great for testing stuff like emulation

 

[Renekton]

Is there a reason why AMD goes with a 4+4 core CPU design and not a true 8 core CPU all around?

Probably cheap easy scalability, add or subtract CCX depending on segment.

 

[Übermatik]

Well the obvious way to find out is wait and see if a patch is issued for Windows 10.

The fact that Win7 and Lunicks are not affected by this problem suggest that the issue is that Win10 is a piece of shit.

It's quite something to patch a kernel. Microsoft isn't going to provide a fix for Windows 10 until it's absolutely confident it doesn't break things. That confidence takes some time to obtain. I don't care for the data collecting nature of Windows 10, but it's not a bad operating system. AMD could have been a bit more on the ball, but nobody pays particularly strong attention to what the smaller players want in any industry. I worked in a factory once that made products for Wal-Mart, Kroger, Safeway, etc. and when Wal-Mart said jump, everyone else's orders were put on hold. That's the nature of reality, the dollar rules the world.

What's the issues with Windows 10 and Ryzen exactly? Is it best to run Windows 7 for now, and maybe upgrade later if things get fixed? I prefer 7 anyway to be honest...

 

[Datschge]

It's quite something to patch a kernel. Microsoft isn't going to provide a fix for Windows 10 until it's absolutely confident it doesn't break things. That confidence takes some time to obtain. I don't care for the data collecting nature of Windows 10, but it's not a bad operating system. AMD could have been a bit more on the ball, but nobody pays particularly strong attention to what the smaller players want in any industry. I worked in a factory once that made products for Wal-Mart, Kroger, Safeway, etc. and when Wal-Mart said jump, everyone else's orders were put on hold. That's the nature of reality, the dollar rules the world.

Not sure why you even try to defend Microsoft over this. Their security fixing practices is also shitty to hell, breaking the 90 days disclosure rule left and right and willfully exposing all their costumers to exploits only to follow their own inane monthly patch day rule they then still don't manage to keep.

 

[Paragon]

Nah, you may be focused a bit too much on the specifics of what he's doing. It's more a display of multi-tasking capability when you have enough CPU resources.
2 Gaming Rigs, 1 Tower - Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]
7 Gamers, 1 CPU - Ultimate Virtualized Gaming Build Log [LinusTechTips]

Not sure whether it's a platform issue or a board issue, but it doesn't sound like you'll be doing that with Ryzen any time soon.

Is there a reason why AMD goes with a 4+4 core CPU design and not a true 8 core CPU all around?

It's cheaper, more scalable, and it's built for server workloads first rather than as a consumer platform.
Windows should be able to handle that sort of setup, it just needs an update to treat the Ryzen CPUs differently.
I've seen people suggest that it just needs to designate the CPU as two NUMA nodes, but I'm not sure if that is all that needs to be done or if it would be something else.
I'm sure they have people working on it anyway.

 

[ethomaz]

I still find it odd everyone keeps showing the worst performing games as though that performance is typical. I guess driving traffic to your site is all about playing with emotions.

Or your are just salty about the results.

I'm still reading thru reddit to find info about whether the CCX thread issue is solvable thru scheduler update or is a permanent HW drawback. Not much luck ��

There are a bus about Zen+ or a new revision of the Zen cores being launched late this year... the Zen's APUs will use this new core.
It is rumors but it is weird if true because few months after Zen launch AMD choose to revise the core of the processors??? That only happen when there are some fix to do in the hardware core that can't be done via microcode update.

 

[Nachtmaer]

There are a bus about Zen+ or a new revision of the Zen cores being launched late this year... the Zen's APUs will use this new core.
It is rumors but it is weird if true because few months after Zen launch AMD choose to revise the core of the processors??? That only happen when there are some fix to do in the hardware core that can't be done via microcode update.

I'm not sure I'm buying this. Once Zen's groundwork was done, they focused on getting Summit Ridge/Naples ready while taking those building blocks to make Raven Ridge. I don't think in those extra ~six months for Raven Ridge to launch they managed to do a lot of tweaking to their cores. Integrating a GPU that large brings its own set of headaches to work out. Even if they did some work on the CCX, I don't expect those changes to be anything major.

 

[Sinistral]

Or your are just salty about the results.


There are a bus about Zen+ or a new revision of the Zen cores being launched late this year... the Zen's APUs will use this new core.
It is rumors but it is weird if true because few months after Zen launch AMD choose to revise the core of the processors??? That only happen when there are some fix to do in the hardware core that can't be done via microcode update.

AMD has already been on record saying that AM4 and Zen is a Tock Tock Tock. That's why in 4 years you'll be able to put a new CPU into the rig you build today.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3155...hitecture-is-expected-to-last-four-years.html

Intel also had a regular near yearly release cadence since Sandy Bridge. New nodes are getting more complex though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-Tock_model

 

[Coldfriction]

Or your are just salty about the results.

Ryzen performs better than I anticipated for productivity and right in line where I thought it would be for gaming. I'm jaded at the press for spinning it the way they always do, focusing far more on the minor flaws than on what it is really doing well.

As far as defending Microsoft, I'd prefer the whole world use Linux, but Windows 10 was free for most users in the tech world and has some very nice features previous versions of Windows didn't. I can reset my system to default without formatting and reinstalling for example. Calling Windows 10 "shitty" isn't fair to the people who made it. AMD having issues with it right now is expected and shouldn't surprise anyone.

All the big billion dollar companies out there have done things I don't like. Steam shouldn't exist, there should be a game repository created by developers. Itunes and the like shouldn't exist, there should be a music repository created by musicians. Netflix shouldn't exist, there should be a video repository created by videographers. In capitalism, there's more money being made in owning the market and reducing its freedom than there is in selling stuff in the market. Software and app repositories on linux were around long before the various companies figured out ways to throw their weight around and convince people to walk into a system they couldn't walk out of. The lack of willingness to cooperate in the various industries has allowed corporate middle men to come take a share of their potential profits. Now Steam is charging developers to get games into their system, royalties aren't enough anymore. I am jaded, I miss pc gaming prior to 2001.

 

[Thraktor]

Is there a reason why AMD goes with a 4+4 core CPU design and not a true 8 core CPU all around?

It is a "true" 8 core, in that it's got 8 cores. The difference is that Intel uses a ring topology for all their CPUs, right up to their 24 core models, while AMD is using a tree topology with Zen. The technical benefits and drawbacks of each depend largely on how they're implemented, but the main benefit to AMD from a business perspective is that the tree topology is more modular, allowing them to bring a wider range of Zen-based chips to market more quickly.

AMD is scheduled to release a full range of Zen-based products, from 2C ULV laptop CPUs right up to 32C server processors within about 9 months of each other. For comparison, Intel's most recent server/HEDT processors (Broadwell-E) only arrived on the market over 18 months after the first consumer Broadwell CPUs.

 

[V_Arnold]

I'm still reading thru reddit to find info about whether the CCX thread issue is solvable thru scheduler update or is a permanent HW drawback. Not much luck ��

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5ycxwg/confirmed_microsoft_is_battling_the_ryzen_windows/

Edit: Oh, okay, beaten. I was wondering whether people just ignored this

 

[ethomaz]

AMD has already been on record saying that AM4 and Zen is a Tock Tock Tock. That's why in 4 years you'll be able to put a new CPU into the rig you build today.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3155...hitecture-is-expected-to-last-four-years.html

Intel also had a regular near yearly release cadence since Sandy Bridge. New nodes are getting more complex though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-Tock_model

Intel already create a 2nd Tock optimization...

Broadwell (Tick) >> Skylack (Tock) >> Kaby Lake (2nd Tock Optimization) >> Cannonlake (Tick)

The tick-tock is now a 3 years cycle instead 2 years.

Zen+ happening 6 months after Zen is weird and it didn't fit with yearly tick-tock in my view but that all rumors of course.

Ryzen performs better than I anticipated for productivity and right in line where I thought it would be for gaming. I'm jaded at the press for spinning it the way they always do, focusing far more on the minor flaws than on what it is really doing well.

As far as defending Microsoft, I'd prefer the whole world use Linux, but Windows 10 was free for most users in the tech world and has some very nice features previous versions of Windows didn't. I can reset my system to default without formatting and reinstalling for example. Calling Windows 10 "shitty" isn't fair to the people who made it. AMD having issues with it right now is expected and shouldn't surprise anyone.

All the big billion dollar companies out there have done things I don't like. Steam shouldn't exist, there should be a game repository created by developers. Itunes and the like shouldn't exist, there should be a music repository created by musicians. Netflix shouldn't exist, there should be a video repository created by videographers. In capitalism, there's more money being made in owning the market and reducing its freedom than there is in selling stuff in the market. Software and app repositories on linux were around long before the various companies figured out ways to throw their weight around and convince people to walk into a system they couldn't walk out of. The lack of willingness to cooperate in the various industries has allowed corporate middle men to come take a share of their potential profits. Now Steam is charging developers to get games into their system, royalties aren't enough anymore. I am jaded, I miss pc gaming prior to 2001.

So why all the salty?

Impress are not spinning anything... Ryzen models launched indeed do worst in games than Intel cheaper options.

 

[Zabojnik]

I've also followed Ryan Shrout for a long while, and he's not unbiased in my opinion.

As someone who's been a PC Perspective reader for what feels like a decade, I couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

[opticalmace]

As someone who's been a PC Perspective reader for what feels like a decade, I couldn't possibly disagree more.

I agree.

 

[Coldfriction]

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-RX-480-Review-Polaris-Promise/Pricing-and-Closing-Thoughts

"AMD also finds itself in an interesting place in regards to future products. We know that there is no following, bigger GPU coming for at least 6 months, leaving NVIDIA free to trample around the high end market for as long as it wants. Will AMD find some magic capability to run dual RX 480s in CrossFire under DX12 that will allow it to scale with a large variety of software? Maybe a dual-GPU PCB is in the works - but with a better chance of success for gaming than the Radeon Pro Duo?"

vs

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080-Ti-Review/Sound-Testing-Pricing-and-Closing-Thoughts

"AMD needs a flagship Vega graphics card and it needs it yesterday. We are now years into an NVIDIA-only world for cards over $300 being relevant and though NVIDIA deserves credit for not launching the GTX 1080 Ti at $800-900 (really, it could have), competition only makes the market better for consumers. We continue to hear about AMD's plans for 2017 and the promises of HBM2 memory, a high-bandwidth cache controller, and double-packed math. Whether or not they can deliver on those promises has yet to be proven."

He is forshadowing a let down with Vega already, instead of saying NVidia is about to have solid competition. HE BLOODY says NVidia should be given credit for not charging more for the 1080ti. Given credit, really? Does he work for them?

AMD updates it drivers and shows pretty solid increase in performance, Shrout does what? He links someone elses investigations, and is completely mundane in his wording as though he did it just to make people aware that he's aware of it.

https://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Revisiting-old-battleground-updated-weapons-RX-480-and-GTX-1060-ride-again

Their conclusion, "The GTX 1060 6GB versus RX 480 8GB saga obviously doesn't end here and if the last few months are anything to go by, these cards will be fighting tooth and nail until the day they're replaced. What AMD has accomplished between Polaris' initial rollout and now is impressive to say the least but their board partners have given the RX 480 a slight premium above its $240 launch price. NVIDIA on the other hand is hanging doggedly on and their board partners have responded by lowering the GTX 1060's entry price. This has caused what should have been a runaway AMD win to degenerate into a tit-for-tat situation "

Go read Anandtech before and after Anand left and started working for Apple. Guess which phones got rave reviews afterwards but didn't before so much?

These guys are all trying to make a buck, they are essentially contracted marketers these days. There is very frequently, if not always, a slant in their message. Mindshare is valuable, do you give yours away?

 

[opticalmace]

I disagree with your interpretation of his writing. Everything written there seems pretty fair to me. I also don't see how any of those comments foreshadow a Vega let-down.

About the price, I believe a lot of outlets (most?) expected the 1080 Ti to be priced higher than it is. If anything, maybe that indicates Vega is going to be pretty good.

 

[Coldfriction]

I disagree with your interpretation of his writing. Everything written there seems pretty fair to me. I also don't see how any of those comments foreshadow a Vega let-down.

About the price, I believe a lot of outlets (most?) expected the 1080 Ti to be priced higher than it is. If anything, maybe that indicates Vega is going to be pretty good.

If my bias matches another person's, would I be able to detect their bias? No, I would say they are fair. The HardOCP guys hung up on an AMD conference, then weren't invited to any AMD release events and the only thing you'd hear there and on their forums was how cruddy AMD was. Now that Kyle Bennet somehow managed to get up stage in support of Ryzen last week, he's all positive talk about the 1700. I don't trust any of these guys to really represent the consumer because the consumer doesn't pay their way in life. It's why I like forums where unpaid people who actually own things can give their honest opinions. Of course you have guys here who don't own Ryzen saying it's garbage. Those guys aren't worth listening to. Also, I don't buy into prerelease hype either. There's no data coming from people who haven't used a product that is worth more than sewage, good or bad.

One of the simplest tactics used to sell anything is to convince the buyer that the price they're paying is less than the real value of the item they're buying. Shrout just did that. Everyone knows Vega is set for a Q2 release, he doesn't have to nag on about how "AMD needs a flagship Vega graphics card and it needs it yesterday." There are very different vibes in his reviews. If 75% of gamers are using NVidia hardware, do you suppose that peeving those users off drives traffic to his site? Or maybe making those users feel secure in their decisions keeps them coming back to him. I try very hard to be honest in the conclusions I draw, and the conclusion I've drawn is that I don't trust any release date reviewers. They can show the exact same data but use very different wording to change the feel of their articles.

 

[Zabojnik]

As I see it, Coldfriction, you're reading way too much into it.

I'm guessing you won't be watching the celebration of a new Nvidia's release that is PC Per's traditional interview / discussion with Tom Petersen in an hour or so.

 

[Sinistral]

Intel already create a 2nd Tock optimization...

Broadwell (Tick) >> Skylack (Tock) >> Kaby Lake (2nd Tock Optimization) >> Cannonlake (Tick)

The tick-tock is now a 3 years cycle instead 2 years.

Zen+ happening 6 months after Zen is weird and it didn't fit with yearly tick-tock in my view but that all rumors of course.

Now it's 6 months? Whatever rumors you hear are just that. We'll see if they ring true. But AMD have said basically the following.

Naples is launching Q2 using Zen cores. Raven Ridge APUs are launching H2 with Zen cores. Zen+/2 is coming a year from now and will be a refinement on Zen.

 

[Coldfriction]

As I see it, Coldfriction, you're reading way too much into it.

I'm guessing you won't be watching the celebration of a new Nvidia's release that is PC Per's traditional interview / discussion with Tom Petersen in an hour or so.

The only reason I watch events is for raw data. NVidia uses events for marketing hype, AMD tries to and is very awkward about it. It's much better to wait and read forum responses afterwards to see if anything of real value was shared.

Look at how often everyone complains that AMD hyped up Ryzen. If you look at what AMD actually did, they didn't hype it up very much at all, the random internet fanboy did. People need to be more realistic and rational, but they aren't.

Also how many professional reviewers caught the 3.5 GB fiasco with the 970? Oh, none of them, really? But AMD drawing a few extra watts that hasn't shown to be a problem after discovery somehow was the most terrible deal ever when Polaris was launched. I don't trust reviewers anywhere. I don't even believe they can form objective opinions with the little time they get with a product prerelease.

Also, I've recommended more NVidia cards to people than AMD historically. NVidia's timing was just better for when people asked me what they should go for. If NVidia weren't trying to create so many proprietary lockdown technologies, I'd love what they're doing. They are in automated cars, which is something I strongly believe needs to happen. They are in Artificial Intelligence in general, which is something I strongly want to see happen. NVidia is a great company as far as companies are measured, but whatever they do they're doing it to line their shareholder's pockets, not mine. Consumers need to be careful as dollars are being spent to sway their thoughts all the time. NVidia doesn't care if you need the money you just spent on a 1080ti for tuition, bills, medical, etc. They are just a business. AMD is the same, but AMD doesn't have the weight that its competitors do, so it is at a disadvantage in the marketplace. A disadvantage the consumer should want to see diminished, too bad most consumers don't have a clue.

 

[·feist·]

Not sure whether it's a platform issue or a board issue, but it doesn't sound like you'll be doing that with Ryzen any time soon.

Can't watch now, but I'm definitely interested in Level 1's take.

Yes of course but does all programs even use different threads if you have 2 programs open and game?

This is between the OS's scheduling, along with the application and CPU. You can leave them to sort things, or handle some of it yourself by implementing thread affinity.

Have a lightly threaded game, and want to continue transcoding at your preferred rate of performance? Assign the game to threads 0-2/0-3, while the rest continues on however many threads or cores you'd like for it to run on. This isn't perfect and can present some issues, but it's one of the options you have available.

CPU side Intel introduced tech to further aid in combatting thread contention issues, but going forward, this may be one of the elements of their architectures they will no longer divulge info on to the general public.

 

[Übermatik]

What are the state of B350 motherboards out there right now? I've been told to avoid Asus, that Gigabyte are good and that, actually, Asrock are the best concerning Ryzen + ATX. Haven't heard much on them before, is this true?

 

[Steel]

What are the state of B350 motherboards out there right now? I've been told to avoid Asus, that Gigabyte are good and that, actually, Asrock are the best concerning Ryzen + ATX. Haven't heard much on them before, is this true?

I actually had an Asus B350 preordered and it never showed up(was out of stock. Which turns out to be fortunate as doing research, people have overclocking problems on the Asus B350+ compared to the other B350s. For example, not many 1700s get past 3.8 ghz(regardless of what air cooler used) on the Asus B350+(for one guy, they couldn't even do it after shutting off 4 of the cores, though shutting down the cores allowed them to up the multiplier a little), but most get past that to the 3.9-4.0 Ghz range on the MSI B350. So I ended up ordering an MSI board, myself.

I was originally gonna get a 1700x too, but with most 1700s looking like they're capable of 4 ghz or close to 4 ghz, there doesn't seem to be much point.

 

[Übermatik]

I actually had an Asus B350 preordered and it never showed up(was out of stock. Which turns out to be fortunate as doing research, people have overclocking problems on the Asus B350+ compared to the other B350s. For example, not many 1700s get past 3.8 ghz(regardless of what air cooler used) on the Asus B350+(for one guy, they couldn't even do it after shutting off 4 of the cores, though shutting down the cores allowed them to up the multiplier a little), but most get past that to the 3.9-4.0 Ghz range on the MSI B350. So I ended up ordering an MSI board, myself.

I was originally gonna get a 1700x too, but with most 1700s looking like they're capable of 4 ghz or close to 4 ghz, there doesn't seem to be much point.

Yeah that's why I went for a 1700 too. It's too good for the price. Sounds like Asus boards are a minefield... Really interested in hearing about the Asrock AB350 Pro4 though - Also because it fits my colour scheme!