American Censorship: Round 2

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PoorFate said:
If this passes it will not stop pirates. They will not all stop and say "Well, I guess we'll stop pirating now". They will simply find another way to facilitate pirating on the internet.


Considering the pirates are smarter than members of Congress, this will happen, guaranteed.

The only thing that will come of this is collateral damage once misused and a lot of angry people.
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There won't be much point in creating a pirate site when you know it's going to be shut down soon afterwards.

It's not like there are lots of other options for pirates. You've got to have sites for people to find the pirated content, and if people can't find it easily, you're going to have a lot less pirates.
 
BruiserBear said:
I think people just have this mentality that the internet is the wild wild west and it's always going to stay that way. It's not, and anyone who thought it would was kidding themselves. Just like not paying tax on Amazon, I've always expected that to change, it was just a matter of when it happened.

The internet is awesome, and it allows us all to do so many amazing things now. Unfortunately it's being used to literally destroy certain industries, and that's unacceptable. So having a law in place where they can shut down obvious pirate/torrent sites seems logical. Those sites can appeal these things, and they'll get their day in court so to speak.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I can't think of a single site I visit that could be the target of such a law. If you don't care about pirate/torrent sites I don't see how this bill concerns you. Just like I don't concern myself with the cops shutting down the street vendor selling counterfeit Nikes.

Sure, you may have tiny sites that still pop up and distribute things illegally. But the major sites, the ones that truly do damage to these publishers, they won't exist. That is the key here.

No one can stop all illegal copyright activity. But they can make a huge dent in it, and any site that begins to get bigger will get shut down before it even matters. This is going to have a huge effect on piracy IMO.
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link to industries being destroyed by piracy?

further, this wont stop piracy, it will make it slightly more difficult for pirates. the people it really screws over are the average internet user. and yes, it can very much effect you. say goodbye to new upload sites, say hello to tons of censorship on forums
 
The biggest problem I see is the control over the TLDs .com .net and .org

My understanding is removing the relevant DNS records of any site with these TLDs would not only keep US citizens from accessing the site but anyone on the planet, since those sites DNS records are maintained in the US.

Additionally for foreign infringing sites an additional feed would go out that would be required by ISPs in order to propagate the blacklist.

To avoid this you could change your DNS server, but you then risk domain hijacking if you don't trust the DNS source.

Here's to google opening a cluster of DNS servers in sweden that are not censored if this passes.

This won't even put a speed bump in the way for pirates. They'll just use a different DNS server, VPN, or another anonymity service. Hell I think a giganews account throws VPN in for free already.
 
sans_pants said:
link to industries being destroyed by piracy?

further, this wont stop piracy, it will make it slightly more difficult for pirates. the people it really screws over are the average internet user. and yes, it can very much effect you. say goodbye to new upload sites, say hello to tons of censorship on forums
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The entertainment industry, in all of its forms, is the main victim of piracy because the majority of our content is audio/visual and be easily transmitted over the internet. Potential revenues are being lost, ratings and sales are down, and good people have lost their jobs because their products have targeted tech-savvy customers who pirate it over watching it live/paying for the content.

There are numerous ways the entertainment industry could combat these issues (which it's not), but the fact remains that the business model that the industry currently uses does not support people whose creative endeavors are excessively pirated.

There's the argument that people would not have bought the product if they could have it for free. This is true. But to deny the fact that there are people who would buy the product but have easy access to pirated content is a huge issue and can leave a ton of amazingly creative endeavors by the wayside.
 
ivysaur12 said:
The entertainment industry, in all of its forms, is the main victim of piracy because the majority of our content is audio/visual and be easily transmitted over the internet. Potential revenues are being lost, ratings and sales are down, and good people have lost their jobs because their products have targeted tech-savvy customers who pirate it over watching it live/paying for the content.

There are numerous ways the entertainment industry could combat these issues (which it's not), but the fact remains that the business model that the industry currently uses does not support people whose creative endeavors are excessively pirated.
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is the entertainment industry in dire trouble right now? are you counting lost revenue as in assuming that everyone that pirated such material would have paid for it if they didnt have the choice to pirate?


the entertainment industry needs a complete overhaul. their business model doesnt work in the digital age. i only care about the actual artists losing money and they werent making a ton off their work anyway
 
sans_pants said:
link to industries being destroyed by piracy?

further, this wont stop piracy, it will make it slightly more difficult for pirates. the people it really screws over are the average internet user. and yes, it can very much effect you. say goodbye to new upload sites, say hello to tons of censorship on forums
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OK, I guess I should have said "damaged", not destroyed. But the industries harmed are obvious, and I don't need to list them for you. Music sales are a slice of what they were 10 years ago, for example.


This is going to screw the average internet user? lol

Please explain that to me. I'm the average internet user. How is this going to harm me?


Also, forums will not be touched by this law, unless they're a forum built on piracy and exchange of pirated files.
 
Goddamit. Fuck these guys >_<

4db26bb112d790b56fcaa934bad0b78808828b10.gif
 
BruiserBear said:
Please explain that to me. I'm the average internet user. How is this going to harm me?
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"Copyright infringement" is understood in its broadest sense here: an amateur movie which includes quotations from a copyright-protected script or soundtrack would qualify, so would a home movie filmed while Kung Fu Panda played on a TV screen in the background. Some more nice examples here. Any use of any "intellectual property" object is regarded as a violation resulting in a blog – or even an entire web resource – being closed down.

What bothers me is the complete "Americanization" of this Internet law. Of course, this is a matter of habit. Any state should, of course, think first of all about its citizens, their interests, protecting its own inventors, developers and manufacturers and about its economy. However, under this law, the interests of non-American authors/creators are not protected at all, while the nationality of the perpetrators is of no importance.

This means that the rights of non-Americans can be infringed however, whenever and wherever you want. But US interests must be respected globally. The "I don’t care" position doesn’t work – see the list of DNS servers: all of them are in the US or on very friendly territories. Yes, that’s right…the carrot is across the ocean and the stick is there too.

National interests are only part of the problem. The saddest thing is that this law is going to be introduced in the rest of the world due to the actions of associations such as the BSA, which blindly supported SOPA while ignoring any other point of view. We had to withdraw from this association because we disagree with its decision. And this is why.

If we accept this law, hundreds of thousands of lawyers will suddenly appear out of the woodwork because almost any website can be accused of copyright infringement! This law will lead to major legalized extortion. The Internet business faces hard times – look at those who do not want to join SOPA: eBay, Facebook, AOL, Google, LinkedIn, Mozilla, Yahoo, Wikimedia, etc. And the list of SOPA’s supporters? Well, there’s the aforementioned BSA (including Apple, Microsoft, SAP, Symantec and other software developers – this time without us) and, most importantly, this law is being promoted by:

RIAA – the Recording Industry Association of America,
MPAA – the Motion Picture Association of America.
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http://betanews.com/2011/12/06/confessions-of-a-sopa-dodger-or-why-kaspersky-quit-the-bsa/
 
BruiserBear said:
OK, I guess I should have said "damaged", not destroyed. But the industries harmed are obvious, and I don't need to list them for you. Music sales are a slice of what they were 10 years ago, for example.


This is going to screw the average internet user? lol

Please explain that to me. I'm the average internet user. How is this going to harm me?


Also, forums will not be touched by this law, unless they're a forum built on piracy and exchange of pirated files.
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less new forums will pop up, current forum moderators are going to have to spend all their time making sure users dont post anything that is copywritten. sites like youtube will become a huge mess, new streaming sites will never pop up due to all the regulations and legal assistance needed.
 
sans_pants said:
is the entertainment industry in dire trouble right now? are you counting lost revenue as in assuming that everyone that pirated such material would have paid for it if they didnt have the choice to pirate?


the entertainment industry needs a complete overhaul. their business model doesnt work in the digital age. i only care about the actual artists losing money and they werent making a ton off their work anyway
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No, as I stated, not everyone who pirates will have bought those products. But it's undeniable that some would have - that's lost potential revenue because people have access to copies of a license which is not there's to own. Instead of paying $10 to see the film, they will watch the Russian off-camera pirated version. They'll wait until the show is over and get the fileshare from Canada minutes later instead of watching it live or waiting the next day for Hulu.

What are the effects of this? People who create shows/films that lean towards a nerd/tech-savy crowd will be pirated more than those that are not because of its ease. Those shows will be canceled/those films will underperform at the box office. And guess what? No one will want to work with them again.

Have fun in your future of romantic comedies and Dancing With the Stars. Because those are the type of products and creatively that will be fostered in a highly digitized world with this current business model (that, again, I do not subscribe to) that makes it very hard for off-centered products to succeed.
 
BruiserBear said:
OK, I guess I should have said "damaged", not destroyed. But the industries harmed are obvious, and I don't need to list them for you. Music sales are a slice of what they were 10 years ago, for example.


This is going to screw the average internet user? lol

Please explain that to me. I'm the average internet user. How is this going to harm me?


Also, forums will not be touched by this law, unless they're a forum built on piracy and exchange of pirated files.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. ALBUM sales are down. Total music sales are up. 40% of all music sales are now digital.
 
ivysaur12 said:
No, as I stated, not everyone who pirates will have bought those products. But it's undeniable that some would have - that's lost potential revenue because people have access to copies of a license which is not there's to own. Instead of paying $10 to see the film, they will watch the Russian off-camera pirated version. They'll wait until the show is over and get the fileshare from Canada minutes later instead of watching it live or waiting the next day for Hulu.

What are the effects of this? People who create shows/films that lean towards a nerd/tech-savy crowd will be pirated more than those that are not because of its ease. Those shows will be canceled/those films will underperform at the box office. And guess what? No one will want to work with them again.

Have fun in your future of romantic comedies and Dancing With the Stars. Because those are the type of products and creatively that will be fostered in a highly digitized world with this current business model (that, again, I do not subscribe to) that makes it very hard for off-centered products to succeed.
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the model has to change, not the laws. there are already laws against piracy, making it 10 times worse will not improve anything. when we ramped up the war on drugs, things took a real shit in mexico, they didnt improve. people who make off-center media need to start looking into new ways of reaching their audiences. it sucks that they cant get huge studio support but that is the world we live in. the solution isnt to legislate more and send your customers to prison or sue them into poverty
 
BruiserBear said:
There won't be much point in creating a pirate site when you know it's going to be shut down soon afterwards.

It's not like there are lots of other options for pirates. You've got to have sites for people to find the pirated content, and if people can't find it easily, you're going to have a lot less pirates.
Click to expand...


You're not going to have "a lot less pirates". This bill is not a solution to the pirate problem.

Pirates have many options for accessing illegal content. A simple DNS block isn't going to do anything. Also, a web site is not a requirement for finding illegal content.

Feels pointless to even argue about this. Nothing I've seen so far would suggest that this bill will solve any issues. The ignorance shown by members of Congress only reinforces that this will have a bad outcome if passed.
 
sans_pants said:
the model has to change, not the laws. there are already laws against piracy, making it 10 times worse will not improve anything. when we ramped up the war on drugs, things took a real shit in mexico, they didnt improve. people who make off-center media need to start looking into new ways of reaching their audiences. it sucks that they cant get huge studio support but that is the world we live in. the solution isnt to legislate more and send your customers to prison or sue them into poverty
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there is no solution to this except crowdsourcing. And crowdsourcing won't work for some new Tarkovsky.
 
sans_pants said:
the model has to change, not the laws. there are already laws against piracy, making it 10 times worse will not improve anything. when we ramped up the war on drugs, things took a real shit in mexico, they didnt improve. people who make off-center media need to start looking into new ways of reaching their audiences. it sucks that they cant get huge studio support but that is the world we live in. the solution isnt to legislate more and send your customers to prison or sue them into poverty
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I'm in complete agreement. As you've seen, I've stated the model is not sustainable and that I am against SOPA.

HOWEVER, as a person who works in this creative field, is is extremely frustrating to see amazingly talented people have their shows canceled because they happened to cater to a younger audience. Executives will make money - creative people will be the ones who suffer and the ones who continue to suffer.

The only solution for a lot of writers is to create products aimed at the lowest common denominator or towards an audience that won't pirate. I don't want to create kids' shows or The Middle, NCIS, New Year's Eve, etc., and I know a lot of people who don't as well (though if that's your passion, power to you!). I shouldn't have to take pause when making a science fiction pitch when I know that it'll most likely be a heavily pirated show that will adversely affect its ratings because of the model the industry uses.
 
ivysaur12 said:
I'm in complete agreement. As you've seen, I've stated the model is not sustainable and that I am against SOPA.

HOWEVER, as a person who works in this creative field, is is extremely frustrating to see amazingly talented people have their shows canceled because they happened to cater to a younger audience. Executives will make money - creative people will be the ones who suffer and the ones who continue to suffer.

The only solution for a lot of writers is to create products aimed at the lowest common denominator or towards an audience that won't pirate. I don't want to create kids' shows or The Middle, NCIS, New Year's Eve, etc., and I know a lot of people who don't as well (though if that's your passion, power to you!). I shouldn't have to take pause when making a science fiction pitch when I know that it'll most likely be a heavily pirated show that will adversely affect its ratings because of the model the industry uses.
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do you work on television? do you see less projects for a younger audience being greenlit?
 
Everyone in this forum with an avatar is violating copy right. If SOPA passes you should be prepared to give them up. This is assuming NeoGAF becomes unblocked after someone inevitably makes an accusation against the site due to copyright reasons.

If I remember correctly your site is taken down as soon as the accusation is made, until you can prove that you are not violating copyright/taken down all copyrighted material/settle in court.

EDIT: This includes all music, videos, images posted on the site that do not have the explicit permission of the copyright owners to post.
 
PoorFate said:
Everyone in this forum with an avatar is violating copy right. If SOPA passes you should be prepared to give them up. This is assuming NeoGAF becomes unblocked after someone inevitably makes an accusation against the site due to copyright reasons.

If I remember correctly your site is taken down as soon as the accusation is made, until you can prove that you are not violating copyright/taken down all copyrighted material/settle in court.
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itll all be worth it if the head of cbs can make a few million more
 
subversus said:
do you work on television? do you see less projects for a younger audience being greenlit?
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Its not a direct result of piracy but as someone with some insight into the cartooning community the "everything is free on the internet" problem is something they're really trying to grapple with. Thank god for services like Netflix that are starting to acclimate people to paying for online content.
 
ivysaur12 said:
I'm in complete agreement. As you've seen, I've stated the model is not sustainable and that I am against SOPA.

HOWEVER, as a person who works in this creative field, is is extremely frustrating to see amazingly talented people have their shows canceled because they happened to cater to a younger audience. Executives will make money - creative people will be the ones who suffer and the ones who continue to suffer.

The only solution for a lot of writers is to create products aimed at the lowest common denominator or towards an audience that won't pirate. I don't want to create kids' shows or The Middle, NCIS, New Year's Eve, etc., and I know a lot of people who don't as well (though if that's your passion, power to you!). I shouldn't have to take pause when making a science fiction pitch when I know that it'll most likely be a heavily pirated show that will adversely affect its ratings because of the model the industry uses.
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thats the field that person went into; they should know the risk of the medium. creating something good and something successfull are two different things.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Its not a direct result of piracy but as someone with some insight into the cartooning community the "everything is free on the internet" problem is something they're really trying to grapple with. Thank god for services like Netflix that are starting to acclimate people to paying for online content.
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people will pay for good quality content delivered to them at a low price
 
The_Technomancer said:
Its not a direct result of piracy but as someone with some insight into the cartooning community the "everything is free on the internet" problem is something they're really trying to grapple with. Thank god for services like Netflix that are starting to acclimate people to paying for online content.
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yeah, I was hit by that too.
 
PoorFate said:
Everyone in this forum with an avatar is violating copy right. If SOPA passes you should be prepared to give them up. This is assuming NeoGAF becomes unblocked after someone inevitably makes an accusation against the site due to copyright reasons.

If I remember correctly your site is taken down as soon as the accusation is made, until you can prove that you are not violating copyright/taken down all copyrighted material/settle in court.

EDIT: This includes all music, videos, images posted on the site that do not have the explicit permission of the copyright owners to post.
Click to expand...

would sites like giantbomb fall into this?
 
subversus said:
do you work on television? do you see less projects for a younger audience being greenlit?
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Yes, but very, very low on the totem pole.

And yes, I do. When I look at the TV landscape, I see shows that appeal to a niche already having to go against piracy. I get that to succeed on broadcast requires shows to be as broad as possible, but I also see that shows that skew younger are the ones that are pirated the most. Especially if they skew male.

Basically, younger/male skewing shows have no future on broadcast television and will most likely only exist on specialty networks like FX, Spike, or Comedy Central.

texasairhead101 said:
thats the field that person went into; they should know the risk of the medium. creating something good and something successfull are two different things.
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That's not the point. The point is that people who want to create something that appeals to them that happens to be younger/male/nerd skewing are already at a huge disadvantage. And then those who pirate will have little content left for them to enjoy if that's what they're into.


sans_pants said:
people will pay for good quality content delivered to them at a low price
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Quick, low-priced/free-with-ads steaming content that can generate revenue and support production costs are certainly one avenue to look into.
 
texasairhead101 said:
would sites like giantbomb fall into this?
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Any web site that has any image/music/video depicted on it that do not have explicit permission from every single copyright owner that own any image/music/video on that site could shut them down essentially.

Like the previous article stated, just a random new kid posting a torrent to Skyrim on your site and you're done.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Yes, but very, very low on the totem pole.

And yes, I do. When I look at the TV landscape, I see shows that appeal to a niche already having to go against piracy. I get that to succeed on broadcast requires shows to be as broad as possible, but I also see that shows that skew younger are the ones that are pirated the most. Especially if they skew male.

Basically, younger/male skewing shows have no future on broadcast television and will most likely only exist on specialty networks like FX, Spike, or Comedy Central.
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yep, just as I thought. Unfortunately I just dealt with that. I can always write my own stuff if I really need another Alien movie for example and watch it in my head.

but still it's very sad that we've come to this.
 
subversus said:
yep, just as I thought. Unfortunately I just dealt with that. I can always write my own stuff if I really need another Alien movie for example and watch it in my head.

but still it's very sad that we've come to this.
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I mean, I tend to enjoy some heavily female skewing shows (Happy Endings, for example), but it's also a heavily younger skewing show (one of the youngest shows on ABC, actually). I think the data over-represents its female audience because so many males in the same age bracket that are watching the show are doing so through ulterior means (whether legal or illegal).

It still sucks big time. Especially because we put on these shows/films to entertain an audience. Yet even after these shows are pirated to death and get canceled, people bitch at the networks. The business model sucks, but it's what we have to work with and what advertisers continue to prefer.
 
what is the point of these admendments when we know none will pass. Most if not all these reps have been bought by the riaa and mpaa.


People are more upset about the prospect of ABC Canceling Extreme Makeover than the USA canceling our freedom online
 
neojubei said:
what is the point of these admendments when we know none will pass. Most if not all these reps have been bought by the riaa and mpaa.


People are more upset about the prospect of ABC Canceling Extreme Makeover than the USA canceling our freedom online
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It was only the Home Edition and they're still airing it as specials!
 
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