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[Burt]

No, not at all.

Episode 4 was meant to have the opposite effect.

Yeah, I totally agree with most of that and really enjoyed what they did in episode 4, but I feel like it's been erased. That episode did a fantastic job illustrating a nuanced and believable backstory that really added some three-dimensionality to the character. The picture they drew of who Laura was didn't make her actions right, but they were at least explainable, or maybe even understandable. And it left an open doorway to.. if not repentance, then at least self-reflection.

Laura wasn't in a good place mentally or emotionally -- I'd say she chickened out on killing herself in the hot tub rather than trying to get 'high' like the article says, because I'm pretty sure heavy duty bug spray doesn't get you high. Long story short, she ended up hurting Shadow a lot more than she hurt herself. And that would be fine, if she recognized it and made some attempt at making things right. But she just glosses over it and expects Shadow to do the same, because they're both there now and she really, really loves him this time.

But that's not how things work. And in a show where Shadow generally doesn't really question what's going on or how things really work (oftentimes to a baffling degree), even he looks at that bullshit and say, "Nah."

I don't think you're supposed to hate the character because of what she did to Shadow in the past, but what we're looking at now is really pretty inexcusable in terms of interpersonal relationships -- which is probably purposeful and will play some part in the drama of her undead life down the line, but that doesn't make her any less unlikeable.

I mean, when they have her kill an innocent morgue worker for literally zero reason at all and express absolutely no remorse for it, I think you can say that the disdain for the character is an intentional part of the story at this point.

 

[Veelk]

I wouldn't call suicide a selfish act. It's the last resort of someone who thinks there is nothing left. It's different that how Laura acts, how she seemingly has no regret or remorse. She knows what she's doing and how it affects the people around her. I mean she just wants Shadow because he's a literally beacon of light to her.

Yeah, you want to be careful in how you try to brush all suicidal tendencies under one bag. People don't commit suicide just for that one reason.

From what I can tell, Laura seems to have very little in way of emotions (or in communicating emotions). That's no necessarily a sociopathic trait, as people with Asperger can exhibit the same trait. But my guess is that it is a symptom of depression. But depression isn't just feeling sad. It can be feeling very little period, which is how I experience mine. My guess from how Laura acts is more that she just didn't see a reason not to do the things she does.

Though yea, Wednesday is also self-serving but I guess it doesn't bother me as much because he's not masking that.

Yes, he is.

Shit, one of the first things he did was arrange Mad Sweeney to fight Shadow to test him, and Shadow still doesn't know about that. The only thing that he's been honest about is that he is a con man, not that he's pulling a con on Shadow.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

No, not at all.

Episode 4 was meant to have the opposite effect.

He's not.

But how is he not though, like he even vaguely alludes to it, his very visual nature the way he presents himself is almost exactly how I imagine God would present himself. A businessman. A dandy 1920s businessman of information. Of forgiveness, of also immediate condemnation if you don't do something he likes.

Again, this is just my interpretation.

 

[V_Arnold]

For the record, I did *not* say suicide attempts or suicides are selfish. The character can be (just as almost everyone in the world is to a certain degre), her attempts to end her own life were escape methods, not acts of selfishness.

 

[kirblar]

For the record, I did *not* say suicide attempts or suicides are selfish. The character can be (just as almost everyone in the world is to a certain degre), her attempts to end her own life were escape methods, not acts of selfishness.

Per the Fuller/Gaiman interview she's actually not suicidal, she's huffing them to get high. It does make more sense, but I'm not sure how many people are familiar w/ aerosol huffing.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Oh man, I love that they even detailed Bowie's asymmetrical pupil with Media.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why are you surprised?

She's shown to be a cheater with borderline sociopathic tendencies that never truly loved her husband as he loved her, and on the day he was coming back couldn't help but be nice to the poor guy she was fucking by giving him a blow job.

Look ultimately doesn't matter how much they try to develop her character, fact of the matter is that most folks won't like her because beneath it all being cheated on is something many have experienced and can never forgive, and she's so nonchalant about it.

I can bet many are glad that shadow told her that he wasn't her puppy anymore.

I know I did. Laura is undead garbage.

 

[Haly]

Per the Fuller/Gaiman interview she's actually not suicidal, she's huffing them to get high. It does make more sense, but I'm not sure how many people are familiar w/ aerosol huffing.

Wait, what? That changes EVERYTHING.

 

[Maintenance]

I'm more fond of random walking dead zombies than I am of Laura.

No, not at all.

Episode 4 was meant to have the opposite effect.

Huh. The episode did the exact opposite to me and everyone that I talked to IRL.

 

[Shy]

Yeah, I totally agree with most of that and really enjoyed what they did in episode 4, but I feel like it's been erased. That episode did a fantastic job illustrating a nuanced and believable backstory that really added some three-dimensionality to the character. The picture they drew of who Laura was didn't make her actions right, but they were at least explainable, or maybe even understandable. And it left an open doorway to.. if not repentance, then at least self-reflection.

Laura wasn't in a good place mentally or emotionally -- I'd say she chickened out on killing herself in the hot tub rather than trying to get 'high' like the article says, because I'm pretty sure heavy duty bug spray doesn't get you high. Long story short, she ended up hurting Shadow a lot more than she hurt herself. And that would be fine, if she recognized it and made some attempt at making things right. But she just glosses over it and expects Shadow to do the same, because they're both there now and she really, really loves him this time.

But that's not how things work. And in a show where Shadow generally doesn't really question what's going on or how things really work (oftentimes to a baffling degree), even he looks at that bullshit and say, "Nah."

I don't think you're supposed to hate the character because of what she did to Shadow in the past, but what we're looking at now is really pretty inexcusable in terms of interpersonal relationships -- which is probably purposeful and will play some part in the drama of her undead life down the line, but that doesn't make her any less unlikeable.

I mean, when they have her kill an innocent morgue worker for literally zero reason at all and express absolutely no remorse for it, I think you can say that the disdain for the character is an intentional part of the story at this point.

I don't hate her because she cheated on Shadow.

I hate her because she's a horrible person. from how they developed her episode 4.

And i was indifferent towards her in the book.

Now i want to make it clear, i like they developed her, and she's a good character. That doesn't make her a good person though.

As for that poor morgue fellow. I think it was meant to be comedic, but just made her come across even worse then she already is.

But how is he not though, like he even vaguely alludes to it, his very visual nature the way he presents himself is almost exactly how I imagine God would present himself. A businessman. A dandy 1920s businessman of information. Of forgiveness, of also immediate condemnation if you don't do something he likes.

Again, this is just my interpretation.

You're objectively wrong. But that's a cool interpretation, and i like it.

I really don't mean to come across as an asshole. Sorry if i am.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

I was about to turn it off during the latest episode just before Gillian Anderson turned up. Shadow and Laura are so unbelievably boring. The acting is terrible.

Then Anderson appeared and I was transfixed. And I'm not quite sure why, because even her performance as Bowie was terrible. But I just couldn't take my eyes off it.

Mr. World is captivating. McShane can do absolutely no wrong in my eyes. The leprechaun is fun, but I'm not quite sure what Schrieber is going for with that accent. I'm sure in the first episode he explicitly says he's not Irish but it sounds like he's trying for that accent but failing miserably.

I don't know. I want to like the show, but there is so much to dislike.

I gave up on Hannibal because of the obtrusive music and the long drawn out slow motion scenes, this seems to be doing the same.

 

[Magwik]

I don't hate her because she cheated on Shadow.

I hate her because she's a horrible person. from how they developed her episode 4.

And i was indifferent towards her in the book.

Now i want to make it clear, i like they developed her, and she's a good character. That doesn't make her a good person though.

As for that poor morgue fellow. I think it was meant to be comedic, but just made her come across even worse then she already is.

You're objectively wrong. But that's a cool interpretation, and i like it.

In regards to Laura, this quote from Emily in the Ep. 4 article really says it all

And it was completely different from the “strong female protagonist” trope which, Browning says, “is a term that I’m really sick of hearing, because I think people completely misinterpret what it means. They think it means a tough girl with a heart of gold, but she’s still kind of innocent and she’s only ever been in love with one man, you know? I’ve read so many of those characters and of course it’s getting so much better now, especially on television — but I just really loved that Laura is morally and ethically very muddy… I’m so used to being told ‘we have to make sure this character is likable’ and I never heard that from Bryan and Michael.”

 

[Gnome]

I'm not sure where I stand on Fuller's technique of using very beautiful cinematography to assuage us of the fact that the show is dragging it's feet as much as possible. Like, at this point, I doubt we'll even get the

Spoiler

snowy Wisconsin town stuff

in season one.

Oh, and Mr. World is obvs just the god of Globalization, which is propagated through business.

 

[Shy]

In regards to Laura, this quote from Emily in the Ep. 4 article really says it all

And i appreciate that. I always advocate for more unlikeable/unsympathetic characters in fiction.

I just don't like her. lol.

I'm not sure where I stand on Fuller's technique of using very beautiful cinematography to assuage us of the fact that the show is dragging it's feet as much as possible. Like, at this point, I doubt we'll even get the

Spoiler

snowy Wisconsin town stuff

in season one.

We won't.

And if we do,

Spoiler

]the last scene season will be Shadow driving in to town, then credits.

 

[KarmaCow]

Yeah, you want to be careful in how you try to brush all suicidal tendencies under one bag. People don't commit suicide just for that one reason.

From what I can tell, Laura seems to have very little in way of emotions (or in communicating emotions). That's no necessarily a sociopathic trait, as people with Asperger can exhibit the same trait. But my guess is that it is a symptom of depression. But depression isn't just feeling sad. It can be feeling very little period, which is how I experience mine. My guess from how Laura acts is more that she just didn't see a reason not to do the things she does.


Yes, he is.

Shit, one of the first things he did was arrange Mad Sweeney to fight Shadow to test him, and Shadow still doesn't know about that. The only thing that he's been honest about is that he is a con man, not that he's pulling a con on Shadow.

To be clear, I don't think she's just sad. I understand the numbness that comes from depression, the spiralling depths of losing motivation in everything. The difference is that Laura knows this as well and tried to address this by using Shadow. That was the step too far for me. It was a measured choice where he was a tool for her own means and she recognized that.

Wednesday is also using Shadow but the relationship is upfront. Wednesday wants Shadow to work for him. He's not laying out the details but he hasn't outright lied to Shadow either, at least not yet. I don't consider the fight in the bar as subterfuge either since he didn't hide his relationship with Mad Sweeney unless I'm misremembering the scene even if he didn't say it was a test.

For the record, I did *not* say suicide attempts or suicides are selfish. The character can be (just as almost everyone in the world is to a certain degre), her attempts to end her own life were escape methods, not acts of selfishness.

Sorry I didn't want to make it seem like you were saying that, I just wanted to explain that there's a difference in how I felt her suicide attempt and what came after.

But...

Per the Fuller/Gaiman interview she's actually not suicidal, she's huffing them to get high. It does make more sense, but I'm not sure how many people are familiar w/ aerosol huffing.

The fuck, that does not match up with how they presented it. Why would they show her killing a fly and then deciding to effectively do the same thing to herself? That just makes it worse for me.

 

[Einchy]

Lol, so the only saving grace she had for sympathy was that people thought she was suicidal but she was just getting high.

 

[Veelk]

He's not laying out the details but he hasn't outright lied to Shadow either, at least not yet. I don't consider the fight in the bar as subterfuge either since he didn't hide his relationship with Mad Sweeney unless I'm misremembering the scene even if he didn't say it was a test.

"Fine, I'll work for you, but I have conditions. I am not going to do anything illegal."

"Sure, no probs."

*later*

"Hey, lets go rob a bank "


As for the fight, episode 5 has Mad Sweeney specifically mentioned how Wednesday outright hired him to come and pick a fight with Shadow to test him out while Wednesday pretended he was just an old friend who met him there coinciidentally.

Besides, trying to split hairs over whether Wednesday technically lied is frivilrous. Because if that's the game we're playing, then Laura never lied either since Shadow never thought to ask "Are you fucking my best friend?"

The principle here is honesty. Laura Moon was dishonest with Shadow. But so were other characters, yet she is the only one hated for it. Double standard.

 

[Gnome]

I agree that asking "is this character likeable" is rather pointless to the point of character development and storytelling. To me the real question is closer to "does this character service the story in a meaningful way?" And the answer to that question in Laura's instance is, yeah, she does. Her shittiness and betrayal of Shadow and her subsequent reanimation is suppose to shatter any of Shadow's doubt in the crazy world he's been pulled into, and also challenge his lack of hatred toward Laura.

Where the show fails here, at least compared to the books, is that her additional screen time only serves (for me at least) to further what I already know about her: that she's a shitty person. It doesn't do anything outside of that which is meaningful to the story imo. In fact, her lack of constant presence in the book gave her some enigmatic tension because you never knew what she'd do when she was "on screen". Building her character more, like they are doing, we learn about what drives her which therefore makes her more predictable imo.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Lol, so the only saving grace she had for sympathy was that people thought she was suicidal but she was just getting high.

When I saw it I assumed she was getting high.

 

[Bebpo]

I'm not sure where I stand on Fuller's technique of using very beautiful cinematography to assuage us of the fact that the show is dragging it's feet as much as possible. Like, at this point, I doubt we'll even get the

Spoiler

snowy Wisconsin town stuff

in season one.

Oh, and Mr. World is obvs just the god of Globalization, which is propagated through business.

I thought that was pretty far into the book?

I assume with the three season format, the end of each season will be:

Spoiler

S1 - everyone arriving at the center of America & the blinders taken off
S2 - cliffhanger on Wisconsin town
S3 - the war/ending

But I haven't read the book in a decade and just going off old memories of the order of events.

 

[Einchy]

When I saw it I assumed she was getting high.

I think pretty much everyone here thought she was trying to kill herself, I even think someone said she was getting high, and someone "corrected" them. They did a poor job showing that she wasn't trying to kill herself there.

 

[Veelk]

I think pretty much everyone here thought she was trying to kill herself, I even think someone said she was getting high, and someone "corrected" them. They did a poor job showing that she wasn't trying to kill herself there.

Well, regardless of anything, it shows a lack of mental health if she is willing to risk dying to get a quick high off an aresol can.

If you felt bad when you thought that it was a suicide attempt, you shouldn't feel any worse for it being revealed for what it was. Either way, it's a scene that depicts a mentally unhealthy person overcome with emotional numbness. Same thing, different motions.

 

[Gnome]

I thought that was pretty far into the book?

I assume with the three season format, the end of each season will be:

Spoiler

S1 - everyone arriving at the center of America & the blinders taken off
S2 - cliffhanger on Wisconsin town
S3 - the war/ending

But I haven't read the book in a decade and just going off old memories of the order of events.

I remember it being somewhere in the middle area of the book. But if you were to ask me, there isn't enough material in the book for three seasons. Bonus stories or otherwise. Every episode seems to be an exercise in stretching a small rubber-band-of-material as big as possible without snapping it.

 

[Maintenance]

Getting high vs being suicidal is a pretty big difference. I wouldn't feel any sympathy for the former.

 

[Bebpo]

Well yeah I think most people would've said two seasons, but it is what it is at 3. At least they're only 8 ep seasons, so 24 episodes for an expanded version of fhe book is almost like two 12ep seasons and not that crazy. I'm ok with the pace so far because it's gorgeous and entertaining so as long as it doesn't get any slower I'm fine with it.

 

[Veelk]

Getting high vs being suicidal is a pretty big difference. I wouldn't feel any sympathy for the former.

So you feel sympathy strictly for the act of suicide, not the underlying reasons a person would want to commit suicide? All the depression, anxiety, and emotional turmoil are not reasons to feel sympathy, but the act resulting from them is?

 

[Gnome]

I didn't know they were only 8 episode seasons. I guess It isn't quite as bad as I thought.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Good episode.

Someone should do a supercut of every time Shadow squints around, looking confused.


Ironic, since Laura herself has ZERO empathy. She can't empathize with Shadow, is unable to understand his pain and his suffering. She just says every line in a completely flat tone and is unable to feel remorse for her actions. She's a true sociopath but what's funny is that death didn't change her - that's who she was in life.

Well to be fair...she's dead, she really can't feel anything in the literal, spiritual, and emotional sense. But then again she was pretty low on empathy prior but here she has an excuse!

 

[Moff]

I definitely thought she was depressed and suicidal, it just made sense because they showed her being so tired of her life. Now she is just... bored? Makes a huge difference.

I still like her as a character, she doesnt need to be likeable for that. I would definitely have dumped her and am glad Shadow is angy, doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching her messing with mad sweeney.

 

[Gnome]

So you feel sympathy strictly for the act of suicide, not the underlying reasons a person would want to commit suicide? All the depression, anxiety, and emotional turmoil are not reasons to feel sympathy, but the act is?

The problem with this is that we didn't get many reasons other than "She works a repetitious job and she's bored", which is something a lot people can sympathize with but isn't enough to drive them to drug use or suicide. Any speculation on Laura having a depression disorder is just that, speculation, and having Fuller and Gaiman saying "she's just getting high" doesn't help that.

 

[Maintenance]

So you feel sympathy strictly for the act of suicide, not the underlying reasons a person would want to commit suicide? All the depression, anxiety, and emotional turmoil are not reasons to feel sympathy, but the act resulting from them is?

She was bored. I'm not going to feel sympathy for every bored soul on this planet.

Especially the ones that hurt others because they are bored.

 

[Veelk]

The problem with this is that we didn't get many reasons other than "She works a repetitious job and she's bored", which is something a lot people can sympathize with but isn't enough to drive them to drug use or suicide. Any speculation on Laura having a depression disorder is up to speculation, and having Fuller and Gaiman saying "she's just getting high" doesn't help that.

I think that something is wrong with Laura is pretty obvious. Even in life, everything she says and does is delivered in such a flat dead voice that there is clearly some kind of emotional affect deficiency going on in her brain. Her actions are typical of someone who suffers from such a disorder, taking actions that might be considered extreme or unconscionable for the sake of feeling some kind of thrill.

It kind of looks like a personality disorder to me.

She was bored. I'm not going to feel sympathy for every bored soul on this planet.

Especially the ones that hurt others because they are bored.

As I said, if we're supposed to view this show through a realistic lens of psychology, Laura either being extremely depressed or having a personality disorder fits her character well. Even if you want to be reductive and just write it off as boredom, it's not the same kind of boredom you feel when you can't find anything funny on the internet. It's a life oppressing sort of thing where you can't find fulfillment in anything.

I'm not saying this means you have to sympathize with her, I'm just noting that it seems kind of backwards to sympathize with a suicide, but the mental disfunction that would lead a person to such extreme acts.

 

[Mister Wolf]

The problem with this is that we didn't get many reasons other than "She works a repetitious job and she's bored", which is something a lot people can sympathize with but isn't enough to drive them to drug use or suicide. Any speculation on Laura having a depression disorder is just that, speculation, and having Fuller and Gaiman saying "she's just getting high" doesn't help that.

That's how I saw it. The idea that it was a suicide attempt went over my head.

 

[Gnome]

I think that something is wrong with Laura is pretty obvious. Even in life, everything she says and does is delivered in such a flat dead voice that there is clearly some kind of emotional affect deficiency going on in her brain. Her actions are typical of someone who suffers from such a disorder, taking actions that might be considered unconscionable for the sake of feeling some kind of thrill.

It kind of looks like a personality disorder to me.

It's possible that it's purposeful, but I took her flat dead voice as an acting thing, because anything I've seen Emily Browning in she's acted pretty much the same. She actually does commit suicide in

Spoiler

Legend

, and uh...kind of in Pompeii? If you count not evacuating when you're suppose to and then just watching the volcano blow you up.

 

[Einchy]

Can't say that I feel any sympathy when I see someone doing something dangerous for fun just because there's a possibility that they could get hurt.

 

[Sanjay]

Where can I listen to that track?

 

[Gnome]

Can't say that I feel any sympathy when I see someone doing something dangerous for fun just because there's a possibility that they could get hurt.

Eh, maybe if she was doing it as a means of thrill seeking, but she doesn't exhibit any behaviors of being a thrill seeker, hell, she turned down Shadows initial offer to rob the casino when a thrill seeker wouldn't.

The other only other reason she'd do something for fun because it's dangerous is because she no longer cares enough about her life to consider the consequence of dying. Which I think isn't impossible to find some sympathy in, even for someone that's never been there emotionally.

 

[Einchy]

Eh, maybe if she was doing it as a means of thrill seeking, but she doesn't exhibit any behaviors of being a thrill seeker, hell, she turned down Shadows initial offer to rob the casino when a thrill seeker wouldn't.

The other only other reason she'd do something for fun because it's dangerous is because she no longer cares enough about her life to consider the consequence of dying. Which I think isn't impossible to find some sympathy in, even for someone that's never been there emotionally.

She only turned him down because it was clear his plan wouldn't have worked out since she realized he was a thief the second he sat down. She's a thrill seeker but she isn't dumb, no one is gonna do something when they know for certain it will go wrong, at that point you're not a thrill seeker, you're just actually suicidal.

When she married Shadow and got bored again, she started getting high again and brought up doing the Casino job.

 

[Apt101]

Least favorite episode of the bunch, so far. Not only did they spell out what was going on, they beat you about the head and shoulders with it. Seriously dumbed down to help those who can't parse storytelling, which is a shame, because they've done such a great job up until this point letting the ambiguity ride and letting it out a little at a time.

So I was disappointed when the bad guys turn up, tell everyone who hasn't figured it out who Wednesday is, and then proceed to explain the plot in explicit detail.

Gillian Anderson was also really off this episode, and the guy playing the Technical Boy is just irritating. Glover was fun, though.

Actually, my favorite scene in the whole thing was either the CGI side-story or Laura kicking the shit out of Mad Sweeney. I hope next week gets it back together.

They pretty much did the same in the book, and it worked. It was a bit more nuanced and took longer to get there, sure. I don't mind blunt exposition in shows like this because without at least a little of it, they're going to lose the casual viewers.

I don't feel you on the rest. I thought Anderson and Technical Boy were great.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Overall enjoyed the episode. Found the intro sequence to be a little weird with the CGI, but that's fine. Felt like it was from another program. This episode was definitely more hand-holdy, and I was hoping it'd clear up confusion but apparently I still am finding people confused by even the most basic of points like who Mr. Wednesday is.

As a response to some criticism I've seen here:

I can't tell if people hate Laura because they think she's a bad character or because she's a bad person. I think she's a good character. I love the matter-of-factness in her delivery. She's not trying to beg forgiveness or treat Shadow like an idiot by hiding what she did from him. She knows she hurt him and that either doesn't matter to her or she's not going to try and undo what can't be undone.

I also didn't interpret her bug spray scene as trying to get high. If that's the case it changes things. I thought she was depressed and it was a suicide attempt and by trying to pass out and then drown. If it's not that then it seems she's really so emotionless that she's trying to find any sort of feeling, whether it's getting high to having sex with a stranger, to trying to rob a casino, to cheating.

Also I don't get some poster's issue with Shadow's actor. He's by no means as talented as some of the cast but the character doesn't particularity call for more than what we're getting. He fits the role fine.

 

[Sir Doom]

I'm not sure where I stand on Fuller's technique of using very beautiful cinematography to assuage us of the fact that the show is dragging it's feet as much as possible. Like, at this point, I doubt we'll even get the

Spoiler

snowy Wisconsin town stuff

in season one.
.

I actually want them to drag it more. I was complaining earlier how fast it is. I thought he already said the Wisconsin is season 2.

As a book reader I'm liking more of this deviation. I do wanted the reveal of what's happening to be based on the book because it was a build up. But I guess gotta keep TV viewers attention

 

[danm999]

I'm confused about what type of god Mr. World is. What type of faith or obsession created him.

Seems like he's faith in systems of all varieties.

You might believe in the free market to create the best outcomes for all peoples.

You might believe globalization lifts people out of poverty and reduces the likelihood of war and strife.

You might believe the world is run by a shadowy cabal who controls people through enacting conspiracies.

You might believe in a political system with checks and balances and all that.

Etc. He is the aggregate in our beliefs and fears about how the world is structured, organised and run.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'm confused about what type of god Mr. World is. What type of faith or obsession created him.

I'll spoiler even though I don't know how accurate it is as I haven't read that far in the book. But I think he's

Spoiler

a mix personification of things like American imperialism, Americanization, and conspiracy theorists of things like the Illuminati/New World Order/'(((globalists)))', etc. How relevant it is in a post-Trump world with a whole movement of insane crazies buying into global conspiracies.

 

[T.O.P]

Oh god, episode 4 was amazing

I'm in love with this damn show

 

[caliph95]

While i

Spoiler

remember about him him being Loki in the books

i don't remember what Mr. World represents and from i seen and read somewhere he seems to represent The Man, basically the invisible NWO and Deep State conspiracy theories that people believe in.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Watched the first episode of this last night wonderfully weird. Liked everything bar the leprechaun and his accent.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Bunch of thoughts

Laura getting high rather than trying suicide doesn't make much difference to me. She's still obviously mentally ill and self destructive.

I don't get complaints about Anderson. Have you ever seen a Marylin Monroe movie? She acts just that horribly. That's on purpose on the show. Remember, she's not literally Marylin Monroe, but a pastiche of her characters (the same was she was Lucy Ricardo, not Lucy Ball).

About the double standard for Laura, I think that's due to the personal hurt somebody can relate to of being cheated on. Book spoiler

Spoiler

I wonder if that will change if it becomes more explicit how long Wednesday has been manipulating Shadow. His ravens have been explicitly shown now, and they were there all through Laura's backstory.

Laura being literally dead is a metaphor for how she was previously, and trying to live through Shadow. Now it's just explicit. Anyway, interesting character, personally hatable but the show is rife with assholes. I can't fault her for trying to stay alive via Shadow.

Mr World is great. I loved the jail sequence.

The only acting I find weak on the show is Shadow himself. Be he may also have the worst material. It's hard to keep that "what the fuck is going on" thing fresh this long.

 

[hydruxo]

Is he though? I just assumed he was "tech", ipods, iphones, connected refrigerators, smart tvs etc

He is. He's the personification of the internet. Media is the personification of television.

 

[Siegcram]

Eh, I'm not big on exposition dumps, but it's not like it's handled masterfully in the book either. And apparently people were confused.

Gilian killing it as per ushe. That Bowie was magnificent.

 

[Zoe]

Technology Boy seems to be channeling Matthew Pitt's Mason Verger.

Crispin Glover sounds just like he did 30 years ago.