Sumio Mondo
Member
Don't you know, humans only way of bonding is through violence. So sweet.
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American hunter illegally killed Cecil the Lion
- Thread starter Jag
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Don't you know, humans only way of bonding is through violence. So sweet.
I'm sure it's the glory of the kill - it's a power trip. Super barbaric.
It's like the confession rambling of an insane serial killer.
"Why did you kill the girls?"
"Kill. I reject the use of this savage term. It wasn't mere killing, detective. We had a connection. I communicated with them in a way most people are unable to. I saw who they were. But you wouldn't know, when did you connect the last time to your daughter? No really. Think. Think, detective. When did you last saw your daughter?"
Actually, it reminds me of the movie predator. Didn't he hunt humans cause he decided they were the ultimate prey?
I wonder how humans would really feel about some other species killing them and saying, "But it's us respecting you cause we're so awed by you." I think we'd still consider them monsters
.And honestly, I really don't get wanting to kill an animal you find majestic. I really really don't get that. What i get out of it is that they want to be close to the animal and the only way they can figure out how is to kill it. Rather than just realize sometimes it's best you don't get what you want. I'm betting that is more what it is (or at least this is the only thing I can imagine it being, as I said, I just don't understand it otherwise). I mean I'd love to be able to look up at a tiger up close and even pet it (no this doesn't mean I'm that stupid to try it though... I like my arms and I don't particularly want to die, especially not before Fallout 4). But I can't fathom deciding killing it is ok or a good thing for me to do to reach that goal.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Saw this today, poor guy:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...r-brings-insurance-salesman-headaches-n403091
It's instances like this where I really hate this vigilante harassment garbage. Easier to make the mistake due to the vicinity of the lion killer but still, just upsetting.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...r-brings-insurance-salesman-headaches-n403091
It's instances like this where I really hate this vigilante harassment garbage. Easier to make the mistake due to the vicinity of the lion killer but still, just upsetting.
Same
Xdrive05
Member
I would never trophy hunt in the sense that these Africa hunters do. But I would love to have a nice 200 inch buck head and/or rack on my wall, provided it was well earned. I'd even make myself enjoy the overly tough venison it would undoubtedly bring.
The Africa hunts are more complicated than a lot of folks want to believe. But I do find them off-putting all the same, just conceptually and aestheticly. Hunting deer, elk, goats, and furbearers makes a lot of sense to me. Some other things too. But the African megafauna don't appeal. And FFS certainly not the high-fense canned bullshit "hunts".
The Africa hunts are more complicated than a lot of folks want to believe. But I do find them off-putting all the same, just conceptually and aestheticly. Hunting deer, elk, goats, and furbearers makes a lot of sense to me. Some other things too. But the African megafauna don't appeal. And FFS certainly not the high-fense canned bullshit "hunts".
The Lamonster
Member
The only way to "well earn" something like that is if it rabidly attacked you and your family and you had to wrestle it with your bare hands.
Fuck this woman and people like her.Ok we've gone too far. Hunting giraffes! wtf.
Huntress responds to controversy over slaying of giraffe in South Africa
Xdrive05
Member
You mean I wouldn't even have to get up at 4am, locate it, stalk it, successfully place an arrow in the kill zone, tag it, field dress it and pack it out of the forest across several trips up hill? I just have to judo it? Or can I use a knife?
I can think of few things more disrespectful to any living being than to kill it just so you can fill a blank space on your wall. And to then construe it as some sort of accomplishment ... just no.You mean I wouldn't even have to get up at 4am, locate it, stalk it, successfully place an arrow in the kill zone, tag it, field dress it and pack it out of the forest across several trips up hill? I just have to judo it? Or can I use a knife?
The Lamonster
Member
Or find better uses of your time than killing animals?You mean I wouldn't even have to get up at 4am, locate it, stalk it, successfully place an arrow in the kill zone, tag it, field dress it and pack it out of the forest across several trips up hill? I just have to judo it? Or can I use a knife?
Omegasquash
Member
Ok we've gone too far. Hunting giraffes! wtf.
Huntress responds to controversy over slaying of giraffe in South Africa
I'm pretty sure I've seen an episode or two of Criminal Minds (my wife likes it) where a serial killer did things like "feel a connection" with the family they kill, or take pictures with their victim as a keepsake.
There's something wrong in the head with people that kill for sport, and I don't have any respect for them.
RPGCrazied
Member
Ok we've gone too far. Hunting giraffes! wtf.
Huntress responds to controversy over slaying of giraffe in South Africa
What an idiot. I don't envy her, her statements plastered all over national tv/news. That is pretty gross.
Look, I'm not saying this merely as an opinion, I am saying it because having looked at the research, (mainly the research on the Southern white rhino) I found out that it is a legitimate means of wildlife conservation. When you have major wildlife organisations like the WWF supporting it, you kind of have to take it seriously.
Even the Save The Rhino charity has no problem with it. While it doesn't accept donations from trophy hunting organisations. it clearly accepts there is a need for it.
https://www.savetherhino.org/assets/0001/7279/What_is_trophy_hunting.pdf
Xdrive05
Member
I would kill it for the meat only (as I already have). I don't see the point in ending a life for a wall trophy. I don't need wall decorations that badly.
Antlers on my wall would only be a reminder of the effort, assuming it was an effort worth remembering, regardless of how "impressive" the antlers were. If it was an unremarkable hunt, I wouldn't bother with the antlers even if they were especially developed.
RPGCrazied
Member
Y'all hear about Delta banning shipping trophy kills back to NA? Awesome move!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/travel/cecil-lion-poaching-hunting-delta-airlines.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/travel/cecil-lion-poaching-hunting-delta-airlines.html
You mean I wouldn't even have to get up at 4am, locate it, stalk it, successfully place an arrow in the kill zone, tag it, field dress it and pack it out of the forest across several trips up hill? I just have to judo it? Or can I use a knife?
So let's be real here for a minute. You would do all those things so you could feel like a big badass. That's it. It's not so you can eat - if you want to eat, you go down to the store. It's also not so you can keep deer population low.
It's so you can feel like a badass. In our society, there is literally no other reason to hunt other than to feel like a badass. We have ways of getting people meat. Even if you want to say "Well I need to keep the deer population low because they run into Bamfmeat's car", that's fine - but the real reason you want to do it is.... so you can shoot another living creature. That's it. There's no altruistic motive here.
I wish we could stop with all the bullshit "Well I do it because I feel a *connection* with the animal". I feel a connection with my cats. I don't need to kill them in order to feel that connection.
Let's stop blowing wind up peoples' asses and be real. It's so you can feel like a badass.
What a morbid mind. What the hell is wrong with these people?
I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. I could believe some one hunts cause they like to get the meat. That doesn't mean they think they need to get the meat that way. But they like getting the meat themselves, it's more satisfying to be able to get it themselves.
I like fishing. But here's the thing, I only like fishing if I want to eat the fish. I really find fishing for fish I'm going to not eat (throw back or even some one else might eat) as boring. I think for me it's just fun to actually catch what I'm going to eat (too softhearted to try hunting but I have less sympathy for fish. Even then sometimes it's a bit sad when you club them
). (I'm also the same way with gardening. I'm only interested in plants that I can grow for food that I'd want to eat. I just really like seeing the process I guess of where my food comes from).
I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. I could believe some one hunts cause they like to get the meat. That doesn't mean they think they need to get the meat that way. But they like getting the meat themselves, it's more satisfying to be able to get it themselves.
I like fishing. But here's the thing, I only like fishing if I want to eat the fish. I really find fishing for fish I'm going to not eat (throw back or even some one else might eat) as boring. I think for me it's just fun to actually catch what I'm going to eat (too softhearted to try hunting but I have less sympathy for fish. Even then sometimes it's a bit sad when you club them
(I'm also the same way with gardening. I'm only interested in plants that I can grow for food that I'd want to eat. I just really like seeing the process I guess of where my food comes from).
Why would someone feel good to get the meat from the animal for any reason other than to say "I shot this animal myself and I skinned it myself and I butchered it myself." You're still taking pride in killing an animal. Your fishing is the same thing, ultimately. You're able to put a "face" to the thing you're going to eat. You could go to the store and get salmon (or perch or walleye or mackerel or whathaveyou) but you're not. You're solely going out there to kill something so you can eat it.
It's the way of man, but it's still taking pride in killing something. Because ultimately, you can't eat if you don't kill something (animal-wise. Plants are a whole nother discussion).
When you buy meat from the store, an animal still has to die, which is depressing enough (even to me, an avid meat-eater), but I take no joy in the killing of that animal. If I could eat synthetic meat that was grown in a tube (and found to be safe), and it meant that I'd not be eating something that had to die for me, I'd be all about that. As long as they made it look, taste and be as "good for me" as the real deal was, I'd be perfectly fine with all that.
I worry it will do more harm than good. Again using rhinos as an example. In terms of hunting it is not legal trophy hunting that is the problem, it is illegal poaching. These campaigns to stop American trophy hunters isn't going to stop the poaching. All it is going to do is remove valuable funding needed to actually protect rhinos in the first place. The cost of protecting rhinos is extremely expensive. So much so that some private landowners can no longer afford the cost of protecting them.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, this whole thing is a good example of unintended consequences.
I've never gone fishing, but a friend came over and brought fish he caught the same day for me to cook.
The taste was freshest I've ever had, and it cost him far less than buying the same quality at a store. It killed every piece of store bought salmon I've ever cooked.
So, with all due respect, you should probably ease up on people who eat what they kill as long as they do their killing/eating ethically. As someone who loves to cook, I wish I could get my hands on that caliber of fish on a regular basis for an affordable price, but it simply wouldn't be possible unless I went out a fished for it (which I don't have patience to do).
It also had no preservatives so was arguably a healthier meal too. I don't hunt, but I could see the virtue of someone killing their food and then eating it that day, especially if they kill in as painless of a way as possible.
blankempathy
Member
Less pride in killing and and more in being able to provide for yourself. Same pride people have in eating their freshly laid chicken eggs or vegetables they grew themselves. I have a few fruit and nut trees and it does feel good to go and harvest them when theyre ready. Plus as stated above the food is fresher, more organic and better tasting then that you can get at the market
Not surprising in the least. Some people can never keep their hate in check no matter who gets hurt.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Plus, animals that are killed in the wild have a much better life than animals that are industrially bred. Animals that are bred for food have literally horrific lives from birth (and before) up until their death.
This old man has probably said some bad shit in private before.
What exactly are you implying?
blitzcloud
Banned
I stumbled upon this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyQvm9d4tM
I don't know if it was posted, but it's basicly a TEDxCopenhagenn talk about how banning Lion commercial hunts almost killed the entire lion population in Botswana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyQvm9d4tM
I don't know if it was posted, but it's basicly a TEDxCopenhagenn talk about how banning Lion commercial hunts almost killed the entire lion population in Botswana
What in the hell?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
lol..dude, what? Why is this the takeaway from the article?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Poe's Law at work.
Am I crazy to say that I think it should especially be the responsibility of the country where animals reside to protect, and preserve, the endangered species? As in, it should be some sort of worldwide requirement? The Rhino situation, where they are allowed to hunt what they are desperate to protect, shouldn't even be an option. It should be the very last thing in the world that should be needed. How about ban the complete and total export of trophy kills, or at least those that are endangered in any way?
I'm also very pissed off at the douchebag fellow conservatives (yes, fellow conservatives) on my FB that fail to see why this is even remotely a big deal. I pretty much see f*uck Cecil the lion and other animals, what about the murders, and abortions, and gang violence, and on and on. It's as if they thing you can't care about this issue as well as everything else. I've had to force myself to not reply to these idiots, because I can only imagine what I would say to them if we got into a back and forth. Ugh.
I'm also very pissed off at the douchebag fellow conservatives (yes, fellow conservatives) on my FB that fail to see why this is even remotely a big deal. I pretty much see f*uck Cecil the lion and other animals, what about the murders, and abortions, and gang violence, and on and on. It's as if they thing you can't care about this issue as well as everything else. I've had to force myself to not reply to these idiots, because I can only imagine what I would say to them if we got into a back and forth. Ugh.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
And this is what I keep talking about when I'm arguing that we need to give the wild animals there a monetary value that is greater than their cost as a pest animal. It's easy for us to value lions and rhinos. Of course we think they're beautiful and we don't want them to go extinct. But that's easy to say when we're not trying to make a living in the developing world. It's a prime example of "first world problems". Our valuation of those animals don't mean shit to the people who actually live there if those beautiful creatures are killing their family, destroying their villages, or eating their livestock.
The only activities so far that have imbued a high enough monetary value to the wildlife has been safari tourism and hunting tourism. This makes it so that there is enough money to be made to tolerate the wildlife and even protect and encourage them to breed.
However, not everywhere can be a safari, unless you are one of those people who thinks Africa is one giant, homogenous savannah like in The Lion King. There are places unsuitable for safari tourism, which makes hunting tourism the only other option. Without that, the animals have no value to the landowners (unless it's a government protected park), and will be regarded as nothing more than vermin.
The hunting economy is needed to give these animals monetary value until the time comes when Africa's economy can transition over more to activities that don't directly come into conflict with the wildlife. Until then, banning hunting is just going to lead the animals to a quicker death via the principles of economics.
blitzcloud
Banned
That appears to be the truth. Still doesn't excuse what happened here but gives some insight to those who are like "LOL hunters say they preserve the wildlife!". The lion quoted in the video I posted was "sold" for about 750k. Of course this raises the question of why it was so cheap for the dentist in comparison.
And as someone said in previous pages, the Southern-Northern white rhino is a valuable example of how commercial hunting does succeed in wildlife preservation.
I myself have a gator head. My mother brought it from Miami when she went there. It felt really odd, but considering their meat is being used as food, I thought... hey it's just a non-edible part they decided to turn into a collectible. Turns out it also said that part of the proceedings went to wildlife gator preservation.
I still feel odd having a real animal cranium in my room though...
It's like that one, probably not as big.
If it was the take pride in killing something you'd think I could have fun fishing for fish I have no interest in eating. It's more the take pride in finding/catching my own food.
Also, I'd be fine if it tasted like the meat I eat now buying cloned meat (they do have that now). Because the animals they have in the farms have very cruel lives and I'd love to skip that part. I don't object to an animal dieing for me to at, that's nature (and honestly, nature ain't nice. Go find the video of a baboon eating a gazelle while it's still alive or watch videos of how orcas hunt seals and other whales). I object to how we force them to live while waiting for them to get ready for us to kill to eat. Hell, I think that's even more important than how we kill them (though a humane death would be better).
And if hunting could be sustainable I'd say that was a better way of getting your meat cause the animal lives a free life and has a chance of not having a cruel life in a box where they may even get abused by workers who only see them as product. But if we all hunted for our meat, that would make a lot of animals extinct. Also, I had a vegetarian friend (and she was militant about it, we constantly had to hear about why eating meat was bad for the environment and for the animals) who told me she'd have no problem with people eating meet if they could at least kill and dress the animal themselves. I think to her it was the equivalent of being able to face what you are doing (killing an animal for your food). I think she felt if you could at least do that then fine, eat meat. But she'd definitely frown on your attitude of "I don't want to know I'm killing an animal but I'm going to eat meat anyways".
These are poor nations. Lions are a threat to the local people and live stocks.
if you get rid of the hunts the farmer will poison or shot the lions to protect their live stock. Hunters pay large amount of money so the farmer put up with the lions.
What they should do is increase access to legal hunts for people that will pay large amounts. Then use that money to protect the other animals.
Very simple and everyone wins!
You said you would tough through the meat to get the trophy. You want the trophy so the food part is the way for you to feel that is OK.
Hunting is not something I am particularly in to, but I can kind of understand the lure for some people. I think people that hunt get something out of it for a number of reasons. First of all, there is clearly a level of skill and challenge involved. Of course that depends on the type of hunting. I am sure tracking a deer and then taking it down with a clear shot is very satisfying for a hunter. Anything that requires skill and is a challenge tends to be quite actively stimulating. And so, one reason people might like it is the craftsmanship in itself. They love the sport.
Secondly, I'm not sure the way in which people use this word is always fitting, but I can see how it can be 'empowering'. There is an element of self-sufficiency in being able to catch your own food. In a much broader sense, I think of something like outdoor survivalism or rather bushcraft. Bushcraft is basically a complete mastery of your environment. It is self-sufficiency at its highest level. I suppose you could call it the purest form of independence. I think there might be an element of that to it. There is a degree of pride and satisfaction in your own self-sufficiency.
You said it very eloquently for me. I get what all the people that responded to me were saying, but there has to be an element of pleasure in the killing regardless of how much people want to say otherwise. You CAN go to the store and you CAN get meat from sources other than hunting it yourself. I wasn't aware that we had test-tube grown meat, and I've certainly never seen it around, but I'm happy to look for it.
My father loves to hunt. He loves eating what he killed. So yes, he does do that. But he also takes pleasure in the hunt itself. It's a challenge. When he takes down a deer or a pheasant, he gets giddy like a little boy. You can't tell me that there isn't excitement in that kill. There is. You've hunted and killed something that you put work into.
This is another way to put it. You want the trophy - the trophy of "the hunt". If "you" didn't like the hunt, you wouldn't be doing it, again, especially because there are ways of getting said meat other than going out at 4am, sitting up in a box somewhere and watching for a deer to decide to pop around a tree.
I don't have a problem with any of it. We have to hunt meat to eat it. I'm just pointing out that there is more joy in the killing than people want to admit to. You like the thrill of the kill. It is what it is, it's how humans are made but let's not act like the act of hunting is some sort of "well I have to do it to eat" type of thing, because it's not. You/we don't have to hunt anymore. We have (cruel, potentially yes, sustainable, most definitely) ways of gathering meat.
You might like to fish, sure. You might like to shoot your gun, sure. But I want someone up in here to tell me that when they shoot that deer or they pull that fishing line up out of the water, there isn't a certain sense of satisfaction that you've just "won" your hunt and you now have something to show for it that you'll cook up later. Argue with me if you like, but the end result is you've just killed something. That is the end result.
And just to stress, I don't have a problem with any of it. I'm not even criticizing. But I also am not going to sit here and go "yup, uh huh, you're only doing it because it's more fresh tasting than anything you buy at the store. And now you feel terrible that you've had to kill that thing for you to eat." No, it's because you like the hunt. And what's the hunt about? Killing.
The Lamonster
Member
Did this guy ever come out of hiding?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Vigilante harassment needs to be cracked down upon hard. Let the real justice system handle crime. The mob does nothing but damage.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Yeah, I'm now on the fuck them side of this. He killed the wrong lion in a country where it's legal to kill lions. He doesn't deserve this.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Why in the blue fuck would you hunt a goddamned giraffe ? They're not even a fucking predator. They look like total nards when they even attempt aggression by flogging each other with their stupidly long necks.
I hope that's just poor wording. Also this:
doesn't jive with this:
You did shit illegally. No one is going to be sympathetic to your cry of "THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO BAN MY ABILITY TO HUNT LIONS!"
LOL
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