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American Medical Association declares obesity 'a disease'
- Thread starter GK86
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BMI is more or less a height to weight ratio right? So it wouldn't take into account your natural skeletal frame type or the amount of muscle mass / fat you've put onto that frame?
I really don't think any medical associations should give two shits about weather or not obesity is a disease and focus on curing shit like Cancer.
Here's the difference...
Cancer
"I've got some bad news Mrs Jones, you've been diagnosed with Cancer. You're going to need to undergo radiation therapy. You'll lose your hair, lose a lot of weight, feel extremely weak and generally be living in a hellish nausea until this is over and you might not survive regardless."
Obesity
"I've got some bad news Mrs Jones, you've got the obesity. The good news is you can avoid getting diabetes, having limbs amputated and dying and early death by simply eating more natural unprocessed and healthy foods, start exercising and being more active. The choice is yours."
I really don't think any medical associations should give two shits about weather or not obesity is a disease and focus on curing shit like Cancer.
Here's the difference...
Cancer
"I've got some bad news Mrs Jones, you've been diagnosed with Cancer. You're going to need to undergo radiation therapy. You'll lose your hair, lose a lot of weight, feel extremely weak and generally be living in a hellish nausea until this is over and you might not survive regardless."
Obesity
"I've got some bad news Mrs Jones, you've got the obesity. The good news is you can avoid getting diabetes, having limbs amputated and dying and early death by simply eating more natural unprocessed and healthy foods, start exercising and being more active. The choice is yours."
There are different diseases that are not as fatal as cancer, so...
Obviously there are other diseases besides cancers, the point is that Obesity as a disease is a bit of a joke since if somebody is obese they can almost certainly fix themselves.
I just hate to think that by making obesity and official disease the attitudes surrounding it are going to be more sympathetic.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
20-30 lbs of muscle is a lot on a skinny guy. You would look totally different, though the greatest benefit would probably be shopping for clothes being easier. And yeah, it just takes good lifting and right nutrition. A lot of people who don't lift assume you have to work out a ton, but for building you shouldn't be taking much time at all.
The key is working enough things at once hard enough that you trigger your body to develop overall. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is an old classic that will teach you the basics of what to start with and why, how to have proper form to avoid injuries, and just offer good encouragement. If you don't have barbell stuff available to you yet, pullups, pushups and squats can go pretty far, but it's much harder to build a solid core without lifting.
The bigger challenge for me is not being put off from the whole scene by all the blatant self-esteem issues motivating most people. Their motivation is what other people think so they just blab on and on with that philosophy that is driving them and it's so annoying. I am well past caring what anyone thinks of me, and I just want to do it for the sake of health and strength in itself. I also have a bum knee injury to worry about, but that's just me.
Agreed 100%. My mom is overweight, and there are is one reason for it. She can't put down the sweets and doesn't get enough exercise. Calling this a disease......I mean come on.
Skellig Gra
Member
I used to be obese and now I am a normal weight (290 lb down to 185 lb). I guess I was lucky my disease went away all of a sudden...or maybe it was the change in my diet and lots of exercise.
Yeah, thanks for the tips. I guess I should also eat bigger portions during my meals, but being skinny, I don't have a huge stomach, so it doesn't take much before i'm stuffed. I can't eat as much as the 200 lbs guy next to me. =/ I guess it will probably get easier as I slowly gain weight.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
*continues tangent*
I was surprised to find out I was getting like 1/4 as much protein as I needed even without working out, but after the fact it made sense because I had wasted away from depression. A lot of those depression symptoms were probably from the malnutrition it led to, and now I can only do like 1/20 what I could before. But it's all good now because I am on the road to fitness, I'm going to be 30 this year so no more being passive about health.
Oh, also do be careful about not straining so hard that you end up pulling something, which can be easy especially when you don't have foundations set, but at the same time know that general muscle soreness has nothing to do with readiness to work. Delayed onset muscle soreness and it's not directly related to performance ability of the muscle. If you have a day of rest after your workout and are still sore for your next workout day, that's ok, it'll get better.
Should probably continue in the fitness thread for more info to not tangent too much more.
Working out you will get much hungrier. I know I have. Just make sure you're getting the protein you need and then you'll probably be hungry enough and have no difficulty finding the carbs you need. For that protein, supplement powder is way cheaper than steaks and such, just don't get caught up in more expensive special blend formulas (you can make your own using fruit and whatnot) and check amazon for the basic additive because they have stuff hella cheap.
I was surprised to find out I was getting like 1/4 as much protein as I needed even without working out, but after the fact it made sense because I had wasted away from depression. A lot of those depression symptoms were probably from the malnutrition it led to, and now I can only do like 1/20 what I could before. But it's all good now because I am on the road to fitness, I'm going to be 30 this year so no more being passive about health.
Oh, also do be careful about not straining so hard that you end up pulling something, which can be easy especially when you don't have foundations set, but at the same time know that general muscle soreness has nothing to do with readiness to work. Delayed onset muscle soreness and it's not directly related to performance ability of the muscle. If you have a day of rest after your workout and are still sore for your next workout day, that's ok, it'll get better.
Should probably continue in the fitness thread for more info to not tangent too much more.
VanquishUK
Member
It can't be accurate because it doesn't take muscle mass into consideration.
Wafflecakes
Member
Quoting this because it is so true.
I think most people don't really understand what a BMI of 30 looks like. Many people who fit the definition would never be considered obese by casual observers. Health issues really are not inherent with obesity until the higher tiers of the scale.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I'm at 6'0, 205 lbs. I'd be obese by BMI, I have a bit of a spare tire, sure, but I don't look fat by any means. Especially with a shirt on. Interesting stuff for sure. Varies based on body type.
I don't see some cases as a disease. If I eat McDonalds every day that's no disease, it's bad self control.
I don't see some cases as a disease. If I eat McDonalds every day that's no disease, it's bad self control.
I'm 6'7 and 200lb and definitely not skinny(I have some excess fat around the waist, I'm not "lanky tall" and relatively muscular). You are either a competition level bodybuilder, filled with lead or have a very skewed view of what constitutes as skinny.
BMI is a decent indicator for a large majority of the population.
Some of us may actually be more than "internet experts" so I suggest you avoid blanket statements.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
Being that it's cancer, yes?
While we're at it, let's call alcoholism a disease as well.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Such a strawman.
Not all diseases are equal. Obesity is a lifestyle disease and needs to be considered seriously because it does pose a significant problem (causing: "Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, Coronary Artery Disease, Coronary Vascular Disease, Heart attack, stroke, and even cancer") yet nothing is done about. People need to get over this 'be strong, fix it yourself!' mentality and realize that when 1/3 of a population is suffering from something that will give them long term health problems, then the community needs to come together to seriously consider causes and solutions.
Eh, alcoholism/addiction is considered a disease.
Some of you need to read up on what a 'disease' is and stop coming in here spouting your ignorance.
No one knows. For years and years, no one even wanted to know. But the more scientists actually study how we process food, the more they find genetic aberrations that coincide with obese people. Treating it as a disease will increase this research and possible treatment.
What they do know is that when they compare obese individuals with non-obese individuals, there are around 50 different loci that stand out as genetic variants within obese people. They also know that in twin studies, twins have a high correspondence of both being obese, regardless of environment.
There's little doubt it's a mixture of the food environment, genetics, and personal choice, but no one is certain at this point which is the leading indicator.
Unfortunately, instead of treating it as a scientific issue, we treat it as a moral issue, which has little positive effect and high negative effects. We did the same thing with alcoholism for years before people finally figured out there was a profound genetic component.
Even when the vast majority of cases are due solely to a person choosing to smoke?
We do call alcoholism a disease.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Bro, you get syphilis from voluntarily having unprotected sex. If you don't have unprotected sex, then you don't get syphilis. Therefore, it's not a disease.
=|
Stop trying to define words the way you WANT them to be defined.
99% of people do not 'voluntarily' get obese. People may engage in activities which will lead to the condition of obesity, but they are not actively grabbing globs of fat and stapling it to their bodies.
Did this baby choose to get obese?
Then why not spend money towards curing a societal problem? No more of this deflecting the blame; the root cause is that we are a sedentary society that promotes consumption of unhealthy food. People have the freedom to make choices, and we have the freedom to provide people choices, but we also have the freedom to influence people to make the right choice. I'm not advocating for shutting down all McDonald's everywhere, but the FLOTUS is on the right track in that we need to focus on improving nutrition and emphasizing the importance of balancing macromolecules and encouraging physical activity. Require businesses that require little to no activity to have a company gym; provide subsidies to businesses that seek to provide healthier food options; and, most importantly, prevent the onslaught of advertising for clearly unhealthy food items.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Have you heard of food deserts where people don't have access to healthy choices because there simply are none in their neighborhoods? What's your thought on that, since you pin it all on personal choice?
What about the subsidization of foods that are unhealthy which makes them cheaper and more accessible than foods that are healthy? If you don't have the money or access to make a healthy choice, then is it really that much of a choice?
Wow, some of these responses are surprising. Obesity is an illness.
This is not a matter or labeling it as a disease to rid patients of responsibility.
It's not simply the obesity it is the coronary artery disease, insulin resistance/ Diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidemia etc that has higher incidence among individuals with this diagnosis. It's a matter if empowering physicians and their patients to tackle the problem. And of course medical billing. I was under the impression that hospitals/ physicians were already billing for obesity. ICD9 CM 278.
This is not a matter or labeling it as a disease to rid patients of responsibility.
It's not simply the obesity it is the coronary artery disease, insulin resistance/ Diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidemia etc that has higher incidence among individuals with this diagnosis. It's a matter if empowering physicians and their patients to tackle the problem. And of course medical billing. I was under the impression that hospitals/ physicians were already billing for obesity. ICD9 CM 278.
Topical, and really helped to solidify my thinking on this question: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/
"provide subsidies to businesses that seek to provide healthier food options"
EDIT: Also way to completely and totally cherry pick what I said.
Bingo. This isn't something that can be solved by just pointing at fat people calling them lazy. It's a lot more complex than that.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
And coal miners, people with prolonged exposure to asbestos, people with other types of cancer that spread to their lungs. Emphysema is the prominent disease smokers face.
'WE' Don't, morons who peddle 12-step bullshit do.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
I'm cherry picking what you said because everything else had literally nothing to do with responding to the topic I was addressing of whether or not obesity is a disease due to the supposed 'choice' issue. You had no need to quote me if you weren't addressing that particular aspect of what I said, since you didn't address AT ALL my post.
Of course we should spend resources to cure it--that's part of what defining it as a disease does.
What is the point of this? Smoking is the greatest risk factor for lung cancer. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lung-cancer/DS00038/DSECTION=risk-factors
Maybe 'YOU' don't, but people who know more than you do.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=399449
Nothing you typed there is a response to what I typed. The vast majority of people with lung cancer got it because they decided to smoke, yet lung cancer is a disease in every case regardless of how a person got it.
Uh...what?
Colonel Mustard
Banned
Please provide statistics for the above.
Alcoholism isn't a disease. The idea was popularized by Bill Wilson and Bob Smith. You can't will cancer away by changing your life style in the same way you can alcoholism.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Also, where did you get this definition of disease that says that the only disease is cancer? It's simply not true and makes you look both uneducated and unwilling to do a simple google search.
This is not true. Doctors have been discussing alcoholism as a disease since the 1800s. And the AMA declared it a disease decades ago.
Essentially you're repeatedly asserting your opinion regarding alcoholism without producing any evidence, even though it flies in the face of decades of evidence from bodies like the AMA and the WHO. You're ignoring twin studies and adoption studies on the issue.
You've decided that it and obesity are moral failings, not because of any scientific evidence, but because you want them to be moral failings. Fortunately for the rest of us, science doesn't work that way.
SpectreFire
Member
Colonel Mustard
Banned
I'm not saying that the only disease is cancer? Where are you getting this idea?
Also, where did you get this definition of disease that says that the only disease is cancer? It's simply not true and makes you look both uneducated and unwilling to do a simple google search.
I'm saying it's a misrepresentation to take an addiction to alcohol and apply the disease model to it when there are other options for defining what alcoholism is.The biopsychosocial model makes more sense than the disease model.
Nowhere am I saying these are moral failings. I don't think morality is quantifiable.
LittleBoots
Member
What's the AMA's definition of a disease anyway?
I think it's overweight, not obese.
I thought BMI was normally pretty accurate unless you were some kind of bodybuilder.
Count Dookkake
Member
Yes freakin weigh.
Agreed. And this is one subject I feel quite comfortable having an opinion on without there being an MD next to my name.
Not to be a naysayer, but what doctor wouldn't want this classified as a disease? Doesn't this just mean more $$$ to go around? There's a lot of potential for abuse to suggest surgery and drugs for nearly every person that is obese. Guess that's the case with a lot of medical conditions though.
I was addressing the idea that the dealing with this as a "community", which I find ineffective because there is something fundamentally wrong with our culture to begin with. It sounded like you were deflecting the blame to "it's the community's fault" or something along those lines.
Thank you doctors for your expert opinions.
The AMA is a well respected body of doctors, not a hack fringe group. Certainly diseases (and subsequent treatments) can be overdiagnosed, but that doesn't mean the disease does not exist, just that it needs to be diagnosed carefully and not confused with other pathophysiologies.
It sounds like you shouldn't be quite so confident in your medical expertise, if your supposition is that diseases are only caused by genetic defects or infective agents.
Firstly, we are reasonably confident that obesity has a genetic component, in the same way we are confident alcoholism does; this does not mean that it is 100% genetic -- and certainly the recent rise in obesity would not be subsequent to the genetic predisposition -- but that some portion of it is. How significant that portion is remains contested.
Secondly, and most importantly, diseases do not need to be caused by genetic conditions.
Never claimed to be a doctor, no need for snide remarks. I doubt many people here are doctor's and are not remotely qualified to give expert advice, including yourself (unless you a doctor practicing this field). Maybe their using the term disease loosely here, idk I consider it more of an epidemic. Obesity imo is more of a cause of processed foods and their cheaper prices. The wiki on obesity shows a chart that supports that claim.
Race to be King
Banned
You know not all diseases are contagious, right?
k_trout
Member
i do now
so obesity is caused by a bug? is that right?
is that a disease?
i dont know i am genuinely asking here
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