-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
American Medical Association declares obesity 'a disease'
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
- Status
ChainedMaster
Banned
The ignorance. Wow...
If there is a genetic component it can't be the cause of obesity in the vast majority of people simply because we have pretty much the same genes as we've had for thousands of years, and there wasn't an obese 30% of the population until recently.
I agree it probably should be characterised as a disease, in the same way other addictions are, but I just think that we need to treat it on a national level rather than look at just medicating people or whatever. Ban fast food advertising (at the very least those aimed at kids, Ronald MacDonald is a pretty evil idea in my opinion), teach kids to cook in schools. That'll do more good than just charging for a load of medical procedures that leave people with the same unhealthy habits.
Joke post or do you work for McDonalds?
Obesity's classification as a disease is very debatable; the root causes of obesity are primarily environmental and social, and its classification may encourage the use of surgery and pharmaceuticals instead of making an honest effort to change the social and environmental factors.
I'm not arguing that there aren't people who may be somewhat more predisposed to obesity and there are rare genetic conditions which make it almost inevitable, such as mutations in the leptin pathway. For the vast majority of people though it is totally evitable by following a lifestyle that is even moderately healthy, and that's where the treatment for this should come from. The course of human history has demonstrated that this is the case.
I believe that this is similar in some ways to smoking addiction, where social pressure and government regulation have combined to dramatically reduce smoking rates over time. It's a medical problem, but it's also a social one.
I'm not arguing that there aren't people who may be somewhat more predisposed to obesity and there are rare genetic conditions which make it almost inevitable, such as mutations in the leptin pathway. For the vast majority of people though it is totally evitable by following a lifestyle that is even moderately healthy, and that's where the treatment for this should come from. The course of human history has demonstrated that this is the case.
I believe that this is similar in some ways to smoking addiction, where social pressure and government regulation have combined to dramatically reduce smoking rates over time. It's a medical problem, but it's also a social one.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Yeah, obesity is a disease!
Now, let's follow the advice of every major western health organization/association and load up on plenty of whole grains.
Now, let's follow the advice of every major western health organization/association and load up on plenty of whole grains.
AbsolutBro
Member
Isnt that a bit of a semantic argument? I mean, I agree that the causes of obesity are far more complex than "omg put down the fork", but for the majority of cases we are not looking at people with glandular or other physiological issues. We are looking at people who do not, for whatever reason(s), live a life style conducive to a healthy weight.
Saying 'they dont choose to be obese, they just choose to do things that will almost invariably make them obese' seems a transitive way of saying that they do in fact choose to be obese.
The important question, at that point, would seem to be "why do they make those choices?", not "how can we combat the result of those choices?".
I will also echo my dislike for BMI, even if I understand why it is so often used. I have a stocky body, and my height / broadness ratio is not "the norm". For me to get to a healthy weight I would need to be about 140 pounds. I would look near death at 140 pounds.
For those who are trying to reconcile the divide here, the primary difference is a fairly fundamental one: it is tied to one's belief in free will.
If you are a steadfast believer that your choices are absolutely your own and that therefore you are to blame for your poor outcomes, then of course obesity represents simply a poor choice and not a disease.
If, however, you are significantly less a believer in free will and instead believe that what we perceive as "choices" are instead biological inevitabilities of circumstance and genetics, then choices are less choices and more malfunctions.
As an extreme example to clarify the concept, imagine a person who grows up in an abusive household and who grows up to be abusive to his own children. Do you blame the man for making immoral choices, or do you blame biology and his nascent environment for bringing him up to be the man he is?
You don't have to be absolutely in one category or another, but it's important to point out that doctors and scientists broadly fall in to the latter category -- believing that free will is mostly an illusion and that "bad choices" are mostly a consequence of environment and genetics. In other words, the difference between a very physically fit person and a very obese person is not that the fit person magically has more "will power," but that the fit person happens to have genetic or social influences which predispose him to better behaviors.
If you are a steadfast believer that your choices are absolutely your own and that therefore you are to blame for your poor outcomes, then of course obesity represents simply a poor choice and not a disease.
If, however, you are significantly less a believer in free will and instead believe that what we perceive as "choices" are instead biological inevitabilities of circumstance and genetics, then choices are less choices and more malfunctions.
As an extreme example to clarify the concept, imagine a person who grows up in an abusive household and who grows up to be abusive to his own children. Do you blame the man for making immoral choices, or do you blame biology and his nascent environment for bringing him up to be the man he is?
You don't have to be absolutely in one category or another, but it's important to point out that doctors and scientists broadly fall in to the latter category -- believing that free will is mostly an illusion and that "bad choices" are mostly a consequence of environment and genetics. In other words, the difference between a very physically fit person and a very obese person is not that the fit person magically has more "will power," but that the fit person happens to have genetic or social influences which predispose him to better behaviors.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
While it is possible that there is a genetic component increasing the chances of one becoming obese, what that does it make it more challenging to become and remain fit. It doesn't mean there's nothing you can do about it. If you are obese and don't want to be, then you need to WORK to correct it, whether you have this "fat gene" or not. People have a tendency to use it as an excuse (even if they've never actually been TESTED for any specific combination of genetics).
You need to eat properly.
You need to exercise.
You need to commit to a lifestyle change, and you need to stay committed to it. It's not about "going on a diet", it's about changing what you eat, period.
Any obese person can lose the weight. Yes, even if everyone else in your family is obese. But it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time, and you are going to have to change some fundamental facets of your behavior.
My big worry with this declaration is that it's going to increase the likelihood that obese people go for "quick fix" solutions, such as gastric bypass surgery or FDA-approved weight-loss drugs, because that way they can hopefully avoid the hard work & dietary changes that they SHOULD be doing. There IS no quick fix.
You need to eat properly.
You need to exercise.
You need to commit to a lifestyle change, and you need to stay committed to it. It's not about "going on a diet", it's about changing what you eat, period.
Any obese person can lose the weight. Yes, even if everyone else in your family is obese. But it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time, and you are going to have to change some fundamental facets of your behavior.
My big worry with this declaration is that it's going to increase the likelihood that obese people go for "quick fix" solutions, such as gastric bypass surgery or FDA-approved weight-loss drugs, because that way they can hopefully avoid the hard work & dietary changes that they SHOULD be doing. There IS no quick fix.
What?
A very good post, nicely and succinctly put.
Personally however I fall down on the side of, people have a responsibility to keep themselves as healthy as possible.
Calling it a disease to me implies a lack of responsibility.
No alcoholic was forced to drink to excess, just like nobody is forced to eat to excess.
If the obesity was caused by a genetic disorder or a reaction to medication that is fair enough. But putting a man who destroyed his body due to eating copious amounts of unhealthy food next to man who has say throat cancer, sounds ridiculous to me.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Heart disease is a disease too. Obesity can be one too. Just like lung disease or liver disease.
I know people hate the heavy-handed PR-grabbing Bloomberg stuff, but we really have to do something more at a government level to combat this plague. Maybe it's incentivizing healthy behaviors or taxing unhealthy ones. I don't know. But relying on what's in place currently is completely untenable. What they serve in schools for the most part is pure garbage. Nothing but starch and fat. Garbage food is generally way cheaper and more accessible than healthy food (with the proper research and knowledge this is not true, but that is severely lacking; also in low-income neighborhoods even that might not help due to limited options).
I'm not going to get into the debate on an individual and personal level as to what it should be labeled. But at the national level it absolutely is a plague that is costing this country dearly, and whose costs are only going to continue to rise on our current trajectory.
I'm not going to get into the debate on an individual and personal level as to what it should be labeled. But at the national level it absolutely is a plague that is costing this country dearly, and whose costs are only going to continue to rise on our current trajectory.
Conciliator
Banned
This is confusing, can someone just tell me if its good or bad
I think you can believe both. I suspect that, as a society, the most productive way for us to view something like obesity is as something caused by circumstances, incentives, and pressures one way or another. Taking this view means that, as a society, there are specific actions we can take in order to help alleviate the problem.
On the other hand, as an individual, the most productive way to view this is as something within your control and subject to your free will. This view means that you, as an individual, have the power to change things, rather than needing to wait for someone else to do it for you. Which makes you that much more likely to take the personal actions you need to take.
I've said this before regarding other issues, and I think this view actually generalizes fairly well. e.g. poverty is something we should try to fix as a society, but as an individual, some belief in bootstraps is probably instrumentally useful.
OrangeJulius
Member
As Opiate said, there are social and environmental aspects at play, it's not as cut and dry as someone eating far more than their caloric requirements demand and getting fat because of it. Some people have other health issues.
I tend to fall into the more free will side of it myself. Environmental aspects can contribute, but even a poor person with very little money and time can still be relatively healthy (weight wise) even if they eat nothing but Mcdonalds and Taco Bell. The problem isn't as much the food, as it is the amount of food.
People eat poorly AND to the point of excess. The excess is the problem part. Especially in an age when people are becoming more and more docile.
I tend to fall into the more free will side of it myself. Environmental aspects can contribute, but even a poor person with very little money and time can still be relatively healthy (weight wise) even if they eat nothing but Mcdonalds and Taco Bell. The problem isn't as much the food, as it is the amount of food.
People eat poorly AND to the point of excess. The excess is the problem part. Especially in an age when people are becoming more and more docile.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
In regards to what the government can do, it can probably stand to do a little less. Specifically, stop subsidizing sugar production, as well as corn production (high fructose corn syrup).
YES.
- Status