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American Soccer |OT2| Party Like It's 1999.
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Wow I'm surprised Red Bulls second team won
Dr Campino
Member
Real shame for Orlando City, dropping two goals late like this in the USOC.
I'll take those friendlies, especially in the manner that we won.
So yes, I would rather win against Mexico Germany and Holland in the manner that we did in friendlies and lose to Jamaica today than get trounced in those games but win the gold cup.
Call me crazy if you'd like.
Those games showed new options and a way to play that isn't just sitting back all the time. Guys like morris, Williams, wood, and maybe rubin and zeleam can be a new guard hopefully.
Yes, but due to this loss that new guard could miss out on a tournament that would give them vital experience going forward. If the US can manage a berth into the Confederations Cup through the playoff then this tournament doesn't matter too much, but if they can't...
In what "manner" did we beat Mexico and Italy? I think you may be romanticizing the style of some of those victories...
How much do these other teams actually care about winning or losing some friendly? Is that their aim, or are they testing things out for games that do matter?
If only regular soccer games that actually count for something allowed six substitutions.....
How close is that to MLS Playoffs?
ActStriker
Member
Still during regular season, but close to the end of it
Cornballer
Member
Time for some morning failure analysis:
- Straus for SI: USA's missed opportunities lead to Jamaica upset, end of regional reign
- Wahl for SI: Answering big questions raised by USA's stunning defeat to Jamaica
- Wahl for SI: USA falls victim to shocking upset by Jamaica in Gold Cup semifinals
- Leander Schaerlaeckens for FC Yahoo: Asking the tough but honest question about Jurgen Klinsmann's USMNT
- Kyle McCarthy for Fox Soccer: Jamaica hold on to stun United States, advance to Gold Cup final
- Brooke Tunstall for ASN: U.S. Men's Soccer Took a Step in the Wrong Direction
- Galarcep @ SI: Klinsmann must shoulder blame for USA loss
- MLS Analyst: Jurgen Klinsmann & USMNT flame out vs. Jamaica in Gold Cup loss
- Jeff Carlisle for ESPN FC: Klinsmann can't escape personnel questions after U.S. loss to Jamaica
- Jason Davis for ESPN FC: Brooks' errors, Zardes' hesitancy hamper U.S. against Jamaica
- Doug McIntyre for ESPN FC: Klinsmann with plenty to ponder with USMNT after shock Gold Cup defeat
- Straus for SI: USA's missed opportunities lead to Jamaica upset, end of regional reign
- Wahl for SI: Answering big questions raised by USA's stunning defeat to Jamaica
- Wahl for SI: USA falls victim to shocking upset by Jamaica in Gold Cup semifinals
- Leander Schaerlaeckens for FC Yahoo: Asking the tough but honest question about Jurgen Klinsmann's USMNT
- Kyle McCarthy for Fox Soccer: Jamaica hold on to stun United States, advance to Gold Cup final
- Brooke Tunstall for ASN: U.S. Men's Soccer Took a Step in the Wrong Direction
- Galarcep @ SI: Klinsmann must shoulder blame for USA loss
- MLS Analyst: Jurgen Klinsmann & USMNT flame out vs. Jamaica in Gold Cup loss
- Jeff Carlisle for ESPN FC: Klinsmann can't escape personnel questions after U.S. loss to Jamaica
- Jason Davis for ESPN FC: Brooks' errors, Zardes' hesitancy hamper U.S. against Jamaica
- Doug McIntyre for ESPN FC: Klinsmann with plenty to ponder with USMNT after shock Gold Cup defeat
American Eskimo
Banned
The problem with friendlies is that the other team has very little incentive to care. There is no motivation for Germany or Netherlands to break a sweat. Whats in it for them?
When faced with a team that actually gave half a shit, the US lost. Period. The US also struggled greatly during the group stage. Oh good, they beat Cuba soundly...with less goals than Mexico's atrocious team managed.
Also, whats the point of scheduling teams like Germany and Netherlands before the Gold Cup? Last I checked, theyre not playing. And their play style is not relevant to the cup. Close to the World Cup, sure, but now?
Everybody else scheduled regional opponents for their friendlies while Jurgen was off taking an extended vacation on the team dime.
"ew why schedule a friendly against Honduras or Trinidad?" hm, maybe because its their play style, tempo, and weather you need to be ready for?
Cornballer
Member
Expected goals heavily favored the US last night, but their finishing and set piece defense let them down:
Strange game last night where I thought the US played reasonably well aside from the defensive gaffes on the goals. (It contrasts the group stage where they looked awful at creating chances and rode their luck for all three matches, though the defensive frailties are similar.) The criticism of playing an inexperienced young defense and continuing to churn out lineups with no chemistry is well deserved, but offensively, I thought they looked good for stretches yesterday and created enough that they probably should've scored a couple of goals. They only scored one because of poor finishing and some bad luck.
Overall, Klinsmann has done a good job motivating the team and recruiting players, but the tactics and personnel decisions are maddening. Those coupled with his stubborness when it comes to makes changes if things aren't going well (on a macro level, since his in-game adjustments have been pretty good) put him and the team in a precarious situation. He's not going to get fired yet, but this does put him on the hot seat. My concern is that he'll be reluctant to make adjustments and continue rolling out platitudes instead of actually instituting some player pool and tactical changes.
@MC_of_A said:xG map for USA-Jamaica. The other 70 minutes weren't great, those hot as hell 20 to open the 2nd shoulda been enough.
Strange game last night where I thought the US played reasonably well aside from the defensive gaffes on the goals. (It contrasts the group stage where they looked awful at creating chances and rode their luck for all three matches, though the defensive frailties are similar.) The criticism of playing an inexperienced young defense and continuing to churn out lineups with no chemistry is well deserved, but offensively, I thought they looked good for stretches yesterday and created enough that they probably should've scored a couple of goals. They only scored one because of poor finishing and some bad luck.
Overall, Klinsmann has done a good job motivating the team and recruiting players, but the tactics and personnel decisions are maddening. Those coupled with his stubborness when it comes to makes changes if things aren't going well (on a macro level, since his in-game adjustments have been pretty good) put him and the team in a precarious situation. He's not going to get fired yet, but this does put him on the hot seat. My concern is that he'll be reluctant to make adjustments and continue rolling out platitudes instead of actually instituting some player pool and tactical changes.
ActStriker
Member
USA v Brazil friendly September 8th at Gillette confirmed
Tuesday night at Gillette.. Sounds like a traffic nightmare.
Reggae Boy Blues: A Guide to Worrying About the USMNTs Disappointing Gold Cup Exit: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/usmnt-jamaica-gold-cup-jurgen-klinsmann-worry/
Kevin Johnson @KJ_MayorJohnson
LD for part-owner / coach please, that would make things really interesting when Klinsy eventually gets fired and takes over LAFC...
You never know who's going to pop by City Hall. Great meeting with @landondonovan @JedYork @srfc_kevin #BuiltforMLS
LD for part-owner / coach please, that would make things really interesting when Klinsy eventually gets fired and takes over LAFC...
True. Hope we get the Confed cup...
Um, I didn't mention Italy. We rode our luck and had no possession. That was more a Bob Bradley game. Against Mexico I remember us playing well unless I'm wrong. I remember having posession and dictating flow at times and not just using set pieces for goals. I'm talking about the game where morris and Agudelo scores I believe. Not like the one in Mexico City lol.
I think it's good play a mix of high opposition and regional opponents.
But about the caring thing and this res ponds to you and the previous poster:
I think they care. They should. Netherlands was in the middle of a mediocre euro qualification campaign with a much maligned defense that did itself no favors. They had a qualifier game like 3 days later and people out there were definitdly playing for strating spots, etc. If someone went off for a hat trick against us I feel sure he would've seen time in the euro game.
Same with Germany though their euro qualification was going better.
And we were both testing things. Like Danny Williams, Bobby wood, yedlin at rm and so on.
in fact Netherlands and Germany should've "cared" more about their look since they had competitive matches soon while the USA did not for months.
I generally agree with all of this.
I don't think we played bad, but Jamaica capitalized where other teams didn't. Weird game and weird feeling. As for tactical changes going forward I'm not even sure. No alavaedo Beckerman and chandler I suppose
Mobile typos
It's a question already being discussed in this thread.
Depends on if we make the Confederations Cup and Olympics or not. If we miss out on them then he needs to go and we should bring in someone who can get the job done.
no, the only way Klinsmann doesn't stay in charge is if we don't make to Russia.
Nah because only friendlies matter, games that count don't matter.
Just like when the US was playing like crap against mediocre teams in the group stage, all that mattered was that they won, hey man it's a tournament it's all about results... scoreboard!! But in a knockout round where advancing is the only goal, obviously the key is that they played well (aside from the half dozen guys who didn't) and the end result is secondary so let's just call it bad luck and move on.
The goalposts keep moving, all of a sudden after five straight finals the Gold Cup is like REALLY HARD. Certain people would still be making excuses for him if we lost the Confederations Cup playoff on October 9, blaming the players (even though last time I checked they are selected by Klinsmann) or MLS or anyone else.
If he does win that game, obviously he holds on to the job, because he's paid way too much money (5x Bradley) to get fired with three years left on his deal...
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Confederations cup should be the final test and even then whether he should still be head coach should be under serious consideration at this point
That seems like a pretty big swing in opinion, coming from you...
Didier Drogba to decide on MLS deal in next 48 hours
Fucking Chicago. Just throw your money in a dumpster fire. It will last longer.
Fucking Chicago. Just throw your money in a dumpster fire. It will last longer.
Best game ever :lol
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Im still surprised that Baby Bulls beat Chelsea. I mean I know it's a friendly but still, yeesh.
Also Mourinho is always a dick to me in football manager so fuck him. lol.
Yeah well... Easier to admit I was wrong than to continue to try and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
Also Mourinho is always a dick to me in football manager so fuck him. lol.
Yeah well... Easier to admit I was wrong than to continue to try and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
Obviously Klinsmann's decision to go with a young backline was working against us this entire tournament. He fucked up.
Everything else is on the lackadaisical performance by the team against Jamaica, and throughout the tournament.
Every single player had endless amounts of bad touches throughout the game, and the few chances we did not manage to completely bungle ourselves did not go in or we were simply outplayed.
As for "But, Friendlies. Only friendlies matter."
You support your team when they win, but you support them even more when they fuck up. There is a line, but he has not crossed it yet.
Everything else is on the lackadaisical performance by the team against Jamaica, and throughout the tournament.
Every single player had endless amounts of bad touches throughout the game, and the few chances we did not manage to completely bungle ourselves did not go in or we were simply outplayed.
As for "But, Friendlies. Only friendlies matter."
- Klinsmann set the single year records for wins (16), winning percentage (.761), and consecutive wins (12).
- We were 7-1-2 in the last Copo Oro with Klinsmann.
- Klinsmann won a record-setting 12 straight games at home, and also led us to a 12-game winning streak, the longest in our history.
- We beat Italy for the first time ever with him.
- We beat Mexico on Mexican soil for the first time with him.
You support your team when they win, but you support them even more when they fuck up. There is a line, but he has not crossed it yet.
If we miss the Confederations Cup or the Olympics he's got to go though, especially if it's his choices that screw it up.
Straight up, we should not have been playing both our young CB's at the same time as starters. We should have been pairing them with more experienced partners so they could learn and grow while maintaining defensive integrity. We had Gonzalez, we had Ream, there was no reason to throw Brooks and Alvarado out at the same time. Not yet anyway.
Straight up, we should not have been playing both our young CB's at the same time as starters. We should have been pairing them with more experienced partners so they could learn and grow while maintaining defensive integrity. We had Gonzalez, we had Ream, there was no reason to throw Brooks and Alvarado out at the same time. Not yet anyway.
All five of those points are a combination of friendlies that have little meaning and Donovan playing really well (dominating the Gold Cup*, Mexico in the hex)... and even then you're TRIPLE counting so much of it. Almost all of that is basically from one good stretch over the latter half of 2013: the Gold Cup win was part of the 12 game win streak, which was obviously a big part of the record year for wins.
Sure between those last two the US had amazing historic monumental come from behind victories vs Germany and Netherlands in super important friendlies, games that mattered so much that our comebacks were led by our reliable go-to goal scorer Bobby Wood and an amateur with mediocre stats in college**...
[ * Funny how Klinsmann blows it, yet gets to ride Landon Donovan's incredible 2013 Gold Cup performance to another shot via the Confederations Cup playoff...]
[ ** Those comeback wins are another case where we created a happy narrative around the moment that is mostly bullshit, because we are fans. If any of that mattered, Wood and Morris wouldn't even be on the roster, and certainly wouldn't be the ones we were depending on to get us back in the game.
Another example would be Julian Green's World Cup selection being "vindicated" by his goal. Klinsmann put him in for the first time all tournament in the 107th minute of a game that was all but over with Belgium completely dominating and having just taken a 2-0 lead in the 105th minute. Did he do so because he believed Green was the right man to lead a US comeback? Or did he do so to give Green a few minutes in garbage time, and avoid the heavy criticism that would have come his way regarding the roster selection (Donovan omission) if the US was eliminated without Green playing at all? But then Green mishits a ball past Courtois and that all changes...]
If the team's performance was sub-par throughout the tournament, why is that the fault of the players and not the coach? And maybe the team would have performed better if it consisted of better players who were left home (Feilhaber, Finlay, Besler) or on the bench (Gonzalez), which again puts it on the coach?
As far as players having bad touches against Jamaica, perhaps they were tired? Why did Klinsmann have the two players the team most depends on Dempsey and Bradley both play 90 minutes in what was essentially a practice game against Cuba, in the heat (89) and humidity (87) of Baltimore? We were up 4-0 by the 45th minute and they never posed any threat, so why take out Timmy Chandler and Kyle Beckerman at halftime and run Dempsey and Bradley into the ground?
At least you acknowledge that he fucked up with the backline...
- There was also a stretch of 17 games where the US scored 0-1 goals in 14 of them, usually with Klinsmann playing 3-4 central/defensive midfielder types at a time and creating no chances.
- There was also the World Cup where the US was historically poor in almost every offensive category (I posted a long list in the previous thread) relative to other US World Cup teams going back to 1990.
- There was the time the US allowed 15 goals in the 75th minute or later over 15 matches (including the World Cup).
- And then there was this Gold Cup where the US played pretty badly throughout and didn't make the final for the first time in six tournaments, getting knocked out by a non-Mexico CONCACAF opponent for the first time ever, and losing to a Caribbean nation on home soil for the first time since the 1960s.
Sure between those last two the US had amazing historic monumental come from behind victories vs Germany and Netherlands in super important friendlies, games that mattered so much that our comebacks were led by our reliable go-to goal scorer Bobby Wood and an amateur with mediocre stats in college**...
[ * Funny how Klinsmann blows it, yet gets to ride Landon Donovan's incredible 2013 Gold Cup performance to another shot via the Confederations Cup playoff...]
[ ** Those comeback wins are another case where we created a happy narrative around the moment that is mostly bullshit, because we are fans. If any of that mattered, Wood and Morris wouldn't even be on the roster, and certainly wouldn't be the ones we were depending on to get us back in the game.
Another example would be Julian Green's World Cup selection being "vindicated" by his goal. Klinsmann put him in for the first time all tournament in the 107th minute of a game that was all but over with Belgium completely dominating and having just taken a 2-0 lead in the 105th minute. Did he do so because he believed Green was the right man to lead a US comeback? Or did he do so to give Green a few minutes in garbage time, and avoid the heavy criticism that would have come his way regarding the roster selection (Donovan omission) if the US was eliminated without Green playing at all? But then Green mishits a ball past Courtois and that all changes...]
If the team's performance was sub-par throughout the tournament, why is that the fault of the players and not the coach? And maybe the team would have performed better if it consisted of better players who were left home (Feilhaber, Finlay, Besler) or on the bench (Gonzalez), which again puts it on the coach?
As far as players having bad touches against Jamaica, perhaps they were tired? Why did Klinsmann have the two players the team most depends on Dempsey and Bradley both play 90 minutes in what was essentially a practice game against Cuba, in the heat (89) and humidity (87) of Baltimore? We were up 4-0 by the 45th minute and they never posed any threat, so why take out Timmy Chandler and Kyle Beckerman at halftime and run Dempsey and Bradley into the ground?
At least you acknowledge that he fucked up with the backline...
By your own logic, all of what Landon did in the Copo Oro was thanks to Klinsmann's coaching.
Lando did not get a spot in a World Cup we were trying to win. He was too old and the experience was better served on Julian Green and about five other younger players.Sorry Green had to go and score a goal while getting playing time in what might have been his last chance to, though if he had not, you would bemoan that too.
At least Klinsmann went with the experience of Chris "Choke" Wondolowski. Oh wait, how did that turn out again?
"As far as players having bad touches against Jamaica, perhaps they were tired?"
Perhaps Dempsey was close to his first career hat trick for us. Perhaps Bradley was the captain. Perhaps they are getting older. Perhaps you are a bitter Landon Donovan fan boy.
And you diminish the friendlies against Netherlands and Germany, but you were non stop bitching about the loses in other friendlies while Klinsmann was getting younger guys experience in matches that were important so much as they went along with your negative narrative.
Oh, and everyone that disagrees with me on this is in a Cult!
Lando did not get a spot in a World Cup we were trying to win. He was too old and the experience was better served on Julian Green and about five other younger players.Sorry Green had to go and score a goal while getting playing time in what might have been his last chance to, though if he had not, you would bemoan that too.
At least Klinsmann went with the experience of Chris "Choke" Wondolowski. Oh wait, how did that turn out again?
"As far as players having bad touches against Jamaica, perhaps they were tired?"
Perhaps Dempsey was close to his first career hat trick for us. Perhaps Bradley was the captain. Perhaps they are getting older. Perhaps you are a bitter Landon Donovan fan boy.
And you diminish the friendlies against Netherlands and Germany, but you were non stop bitching about the loses in other friendlies while Klinsmann was getting younger guys experience in matches that were important so much as they went along with your negative narrative.
Oh, and everyone that disagrees with me on this is in a Cult!
Oh man I haven't heard "Donovan fanboy" since Notrollious in the previous thread... now even he wants Klinsmann gone.
But if you want to focus on bashing Donovan instead of those four bullet points of how bad the team has been for long stretches under Klinsmann, that's fine with me...
I'm not sure what you're even arguing here, given that Wondo had zero caps in his career before Klinsmann started calling him in. There's a difference between having experience in big games and simply being over thirty, and LD vs Wondo is it.
But that is certainly an example of how Klinsmann made a stupid decision by leaving Donovan off, as he publicly stated that Donovan was competing for a spot with Wondo among others, and actually chose the latter, the guy you just nicknamed "Choker"... try explaining that.
Younger players such as Brad Davis who is so much younger than Donovan that he's actually older than him.
Yet Davis only had a handful of B team caps over his entire career until Klinsmann inexplicably decided he was an international caliber player... and started him against freaking Germany at the World Cup... how did that work out?
Brad Davis actually does share one thing in common with a young kid like Julian Green, though: His best game for the US was also in the equivalent of garbage time, after Donovan had already clinched victory in the hex with a goal and assist against Mexico. Brad Davis did somewhat okay in a B team game that mattered so little for us that Panama wasn't even trying because they assumed we would throw it.
Brad Davis who has 0 goals and 4 assists for a last place Dynamo team yet made the initial 23 man roster for this Gold Cup before being replaced due to injury, while an MVP candidate like Benny Feilhaber didn't even make the preliminary 35 man roster because Klinsmann thinks "there are other ones ahead of him. I guess pointing that out makes me a Feilhaber fanboy though...
Try to find some coherent string of rational decisionmaking in all of that as a Klinsmann kultist.
But if you want to focus on bashing Donovan instead of those four bullet points of how bad the team has been for long stretches under Klinsmann, that's fine with me...
I'm not sure what you're even arguing here, given that Wondo had zero caps in his career before Klinsmann started calling him in. There's a difference between having experience in big games and simply being over thirty, and LD vs Wondo is it.
But that is certainly an example of how Klinsmann made a stupid decision by leaving Donovan off, as he publicly stated that Donovan was competing for a spot with Wondo among others, and actually chose the latter, the guy you just nicknamed "Choker"... try explaining that.
Younger players such as Brad Davis who is so much younger than Donovan that he's actually older than him.
Yet Davis only had a handful of B team caps over his entire career until Klinsmann inexplicably decided he was an international caliber player... and started him against freaking Germany at the World Cup... how did that work out?
Brad Davis actually does share one thing in common with a young kid like Julian Green, though: His best game for the US was also in the equivalent of garbage time, after Donovan had already clinched victory in the hex with a goal and assist against Mexico. Brad Davis did somewhat okay in a B team game that mattered so little for us that Panama wasn't even trying because they assumed we would throw it.
Brad Davis who has 0 goals and 4 assists for a last place Dynamo team yet made the initial 23 man roster for this Gold Cup before being replaced due to injury, while an MVP candidate like Benny Feilhaber didn't even make the preliminary 35 man roster because Klinsmann thinks "there are other ones ahead of him. I guess pointing that out makes me a Feilhaber fanboy though...
Try to find some coherent string of rational decisionmaking in all of that as a Klinsmann kultist.
Bruce Arena seems to be a pretty decent coach. Although he should stay where he is as I'd love to see Klinsmann try to compete with Arena in MLS, given the job Klinsmann did with Toronto, bringing in Aron Winter and Frings as DP...
Do you hear Garber criticizing Klinsmann?
Garber must love the guy right now, Klinsmann's team gives up three goals in the games they draw and lose, and all are to MLS players: Blaz Perez (Dallas), Darren Mattocks (Vancouver), Giles Barnes (Houston). Mattocks barely plays for Vancouver, their fans seem to hate him, yet even he's a Gold Cup hero now thanks to non-MLSers like Brooks and Alvarado...
Do you think even Garber whose job is to push MLS would have had the audacity to suggest that Klinsmann bring in a 33 year old Alan Gordon (another player who is older than Donovan), who previously had one career cap against Antigua (also under Klinsmann), as the team's hope for scoring late goals in the knockout rounds?
The Chosen One
Member
I put Wednesday's performance on the players. The lineup and formation seemed pretty solid but the players simply weren't sharp enough. Too many mental errors in the back, poor first touch in the middle, and lack of composure in the final third.
That game didn't really bother me too much. The problem I have is with how we played in the group stages and pretty much the last 12 months, save last May and early June. Style-wise we are playing equal or worse than we did 5-8 years ago. Klinsmann was suppose to being a fundamental change to the USMNT, not just a few more wins here and there. That was supposedly the justification for his lucrative long-term contract.
Taking the longview, Klinsmann has so far fallen short of even his own stated goals. We've expanded the player pool, which is great. But the players we're picking just don't seem capable of conforming into a technical possession oriented style of soccer. Maybe this is the problem with the current talent pool at the senior level, I don't know.
As mentioned before this is why I'm more excited about the new wave of youth players coming up who have a stronger technical foundation. The only problem there is that our youth level has fairly mediocre coaching, so while they may do better technically, I think tactically they may still be pretty far behind. This is another area where Klinsmann will be judged since he's the Technical Director.
I wouldn't fire him yet, but I would give him another 12 months. If there isn't a noticeable improvement within 12 months, I think it would be time for US Soccer to look for a replacement before it gets too close to the 2018 World Cup. Waiting until a failed performance at the 2017 Confederations Cup is way too late. There would be no time for a new coach to come in and adequately make their imprint.
Gamecocks625
Member
I was joking with a friend on the marta on the way to the Georgia Dome saying "I bet the first time we see the US play in person, they'll lose haha"
Incredible atmosphere though. Very loud in the dome.
Also Mexico fans like to throw things.
Incredible atmosphere though. Very loud in the dome.
Also Mexico fans like to throw things.
American Eskimo
Banned
He's getting fired on October 10th guys
American Eskimo
Banned
Actually, how important is winning the third place game for jurgen?
Grover Cleveland
Member
I think the embarrassment of losing to Jamaica at home and not making the final of the Gold Cup overshadows the result of the third-place match no matter what it may be. I certainly wouldn't think all ills are cured if they beat Panama and I wouldn't feel that much worse if they lost a game that essentially is meaningless.
Put it this way, if JK wasn't getting fired after the Jamaica game, he won't get fired because of losing to Panama.
He should still be looking for a huge victory here though, just as an acknowledgement that he fucked up with Jamaica.
American Eskimo
Banned
I disagree.
Upsets happen.
He can say "Well we beat Germany, we beat Holland, we bear Cuba etc etc... one loss out of ten is not a surprise in football. Giants get upset every once in awhile its the nature of the game"
But losing twice in a row to minnows?
That means the team is fundamentally broken.