Support NeoGAF

[inner-G]

Synthetic Canniboids (spelling?) are going to be the next gold mine in pharmaceuticals. Have any gone through successful clinical trials yet?

Individual (and synthesized) cannabinoids aren't as effective.

Much of the benefit comes from the 'entourage effect' of all of the different cannabinoids and terpenes in the plant hitting at once. Isolating one or two of them doesn't do the same thing for the patient.

 

[frontovik]

Good intentions but it will likely cause more frustration than relief.

 

[SRG01]

Individual (and synthesized) cannabinoids aren't as effective.

Much of the benefit comes from the 'entourage effect' of all of the different cannabinoids and terpenes in the plant hitting at once. Isolating one or two of them doesn't do the same thing for the patient.

Yeah, that's what I last read too, unfortunately.

 

[Alavard]

Really? Pranic healing? Is there any scientific evidence that backs this stuff up at all? I followed the link in the article to the pranic healing website and it just screamed scam to me.

The hospital has noble goals, trying to ease off on overprescribing addictive drugs that are having an impact on society. But this is not the way to go about it at all.

It's pain management. It works if the patient tells you it's working. Entirely the placebo effect, but still.

 

[Aureon]

Placebo is proven to work most effectively in pain reduction.

 

[Omegasquash]

Good that hospitals are addressing this problem somewhat.

Pranic healing sounds like BS though.

This directly conveys my thoughts on the matter.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

That's interesting you say that, i'm currently involved in a medical research project trying to manage post-surgical pain with the use of Virtual Reality. The pilot studies have shown very positive results. The power of distraction can be more potent than you think.

Speaking anecdotally, that does not work for me.

 

[Ferrio]

Ya no thanks. I've already been turned down for pain meds before because they thought I was some random addict, the fucking worst. "Here's some tylenol, that'll be $300"

 

[Somnid]

I think opioids should be pretty last-line. Like, we try other things first before you are allowed to have them rather than the current system where anything slightly irritating gets you a prescription.

 

[M0nochromatic]

"Nurse, please I'm in serious pain."
* The nurse starts playing a flute *
"Here's your $5,000 bill."

 

[TickleMeElbow]

That holistic shit probably works for some, because a lot of people over exaggerate their pain levels. I remember when I got stabbed in the bile duct and they asked me what my pain level was from 1 to 10, I didn't even know how to answer. I imagined a 10 being my dick getting burned off or something, so I was like "I don't know...an 8 or 9? Maybe 7? Fuck, it just hurts..." struggling to get words out lol.

Later when I was in a room, they asked the guy across from me what his pain level was and he casually goes "about a 9". Like motherfucker if you can just casually say that shit you don't even know what a 9 is. I wish they brought that dude a fucking harp player.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Damn man if I'm in a shitload of pain I can get down with an elderly woman playing a harp for me, but they better give me a vicadin first

 

[Abounder]

Hope it pays off but those photos and treatments look like something from The Onion, big pharma must be pleased.

Anyway Americans are being exploited and abuse prescription painkillers like there was no tomorrow. The withdrawal symptoms are not worth the addiction, godspeed

 

[inner-G]

Yeah, that's what I last read too, unfortunately.

I don't think it's unfortunate - whole plant medicine isn't dangerous. If it works better, why even bother with synthetics?

 

[perfectchaos007]

"Nurse, please I'm in serious pain."
* The nurse starts playing a flute *
"Here's your $5,000 bill."

musicians are about to get paid! Sounds like the most lucrative gig a musician can ask for

 

[inner-G]

musicians are about to get paid! Sounds like the most lucrative gig a musician can ask for

Gotta fold the unemployable art grads into the booming health care industry somehow.

 

[Irobot82]

Yeah, that's what I last read too, unfortunately.

Why is that unfortunate? The whole plant works and isn't harmful. No reason to create an artificial thing when the real thing works great.

 

[Yoda]

I don't think anyone impaled, suffering from cancer, or other intractable pain is going to have the flute played for them. A lot of people come to the ER knowing that they can abuse it's bureaucratic processes for drugs. There is also medical science behind the placebo effect... you know it's used in literally every drug study on the planet right?

 

[M0nochromatic]

musicians are about to get paid! Sounds like the most lucrative gig a musician can ask for

Insurance companies now cover iTunes purchases and video games, since they classify as medical treatment.

I need this graphics card to kill the pain.

 

[Endless-Bravado]

 

[Mixolydian]

Finally. Last time I went to the ER with glass through my foot, all I could think was, "Why are you giving me pain meds?! Don't you have an aging harp player instead?"



Like most, I'm all for finding alternatives to opiates, but incorporating holistic medicine seems a stretch.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

That holistic shit probably works for some, because a lot of people over exaggerate their pain levels. I remember when I got stabbed in the bile duct and they asked me what my pain level was from 1 to 10, I didn't even know how to answer. I imagined a 10 being my dick getting burned off or something, so I was like "I don't know...an 8 or 9? Maybe 7? Fuck, it just hurts..." struggling to get words out lol.

Later when I was in a room, they asked the guy across from me what his pain level was and he casually goes "about a 9". Like motherfucker if you can just casually say that shit you don't even know what a 9 is. I wish they brought that dude a fucking harp player.

The problem with the pain scale is that your pain can be an 8 or 9 at the moment, but it can subside on its own.

For me, I live with a daily pain level of about 3 or 4, every day, 24/7. Some days are better than others, but eventually it totally robs you of all happiness and joy. For me, medication is a necessary last resort option.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Fucking bullshit. I'm sorry there are addicts that overdose and people that try to fake injuries to get pain meds but SOME of us are actually in real pain.

Fuck a harp. I couldn't drive to the hospital because I did something to my neck. It felt broken. But I've never broken a bone so I don't know. Obviously it wasn't really broken but after some X-rays and scans it was a nasty pulled muscle. I've thrown out my back before and it felt like that but my neck. After a muscle relaxer and some Percocet I was good.

I went nearly three days in agonizing pain befor I asked my wife to take me to the hospital. If they told me this shit I think I'd cry.

These meds have legitimate uses.

 

[Crayons]

Oh my god, if I was in pain and you started having some holistic energy vibe healing new wave nonsense I'd fucking LOSE MY MIND

 

[Nivash]

My mental evolution reading the OP:

- Reading the title: hey, could be good. Opioids have their place but do tend to get overused. It will be interesting to see what they've come up with.

- "Holistic coordinator": sweet dear god no

- "Pranic healing": FUCK YOU

I would like to emphasise that I literally yelled that last thought out loud.

EDIT:

“St. Joe’s is on the leading edge”

I suppose leading edge could be a synonym for teetering on the edge to an abyss.

 

[jblank83]

Really? Pranic healing? Is there any scientific evidence that backs this stuff up at all?

Last I heard, therapy like acupuncture was proven no better than placebo.

Trying to reduce opioid addiction is a great idea. This not so much.

 

[Dot-N-Run]

It's pain management. It works if the patient tells you it's working. Entirely the placebo effect, but still.

The main concern I have is patients getting sucked into the whole "pranic healing" system. The site linked in the article has a very prominent storefront and also lists pages upon pages of courses they are holding, with pretty much all but the first course in the list costing hundreds of dollars.

http://www.pranichealingusa.com/

Despite me believing all of this is a bunch of bunk, I think that people (adults at least) can do what they want with their own money, even if they are paying for nothing but a extremely pricey placebo. But it also doesn't seem right to let con artists sucker people into believing in fake medicine. And unless I can find credible evidence to prove otherwise, fake medicine is what pranic healing is.

 

[CSX]

Lmfao

 

[demon]

I don't know how good an idea this is, but something needs to be done about the use of opioids for pain management in this country. The US has like 80% of opioid prescriptions in the world, and opioid pain pill abuse and deaths are at epidemic levels.

 

[Stinkles]

I agree with the general direction but paying a fraud for "Pranic healing" of my chronic back injury seems just as dumb.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Last I heard, therapy like acupuncture was proven no better than placebo.

Trying to reduce opioid addiction is a great idea. This not so much.

I tried acupuncture 3 different times. About 8 sessions each.

It did absolutely nothing.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

I don't know how good an idea this is, but something needs to be done about the use of opioids for pain management in this country. The US has like 80% of opioid prescriptions in the world, and opioid pain pill abuse and deaths are at epidemic levels.

Not to mention, when people can't get the pills any more, many turn to heroin because its much cheaper. Honestly, I fear we're just a few years away from people doing krokodil here.

 

[Stinkles]

I tried acupuncture 3 different times. About 8 sessions each.

It did absolutely nothing.

Nonsense. Acupuncture is every bit as effective as oral sucrose induction.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

The main concern I have is patients getting sucked into the whole "pranic healing" system. The site linked in the article has a very prominent storefront and also lists pages upon pages of courses they are holding, with pretty much all but the first course in the list costing hundreds of dollars.

http://www.pranichealingusa.com/

Despite me believing all of this is a bunch of bunk, I think that people (adults at least) can do what they want with their own money, even if they are paying for nothing but a extremely pricey placebo. But it also doesn't seem right to let con artists sucker people into believing in fake medicine. And unless I can find credible evidence to prove otherwise, fake medicine is what pranic healing is.

Well said.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Speaking anecdotally, that does not work for me.

Same here. I live with chronic pain too and games, reading, TV and the like are a welcome distraction but hardly anything close to relief. Never tried VR and it might be different but hands on a controller only serve to keep my mind off things until I hit pause and have to get up.

 

[SapphiCine]

If they are going to rely on psychotherapy, they better get some damn professionals. Not that there aren't quacks in the mental health field, but this sounds like a good opportunity to get more funding and employment for psychology.

 

[Somnid]

Last I heard, therapy like acupuncture was proven no better than placebo.

Trying to reduce opioid addiction is a great idea. This not so much.

Well an alternative could be giving them actual placebos and see if they come back. Slightly more morally suspect but much more scientific.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I don't know how good an idea this is, but something needs to be done about the use of opioids for pain management in this country. The US has like 80% of opioid prescriptions in the world, and opioid pain pill abuse and deaths are at epidemic levels.

Doing something doesn't mean we should implement shitty ideas because it's "something".

Also, I know in NYS all opiate prescriptions go into a database. And individual usage is tracked. It's been over a year since my last surgery but is such a database nation wide?

 

[SRG01]

I don't think it's unfortunate - whole plant medicine isn't dangerous. If it works better, why even bother with synthetics?

Why is that unfortunate? The whole plant works and isn't harmful. No reason to create an artificial thing when the real thing works great.

Sorry if I implied that the plant is harmful; not the case at all.

As a scientist, I deeply care about efficacy and dose control. The reason why I am pro-synthetics (at least in this case) is because dosages can be precisely measured and controlled against testable outcomes. If there's a controlled method to ensure dosage with plant-based delivery, then I'm all for it.

 

[metalslimer]

Yeah with how much healthcare costs here I wouldn't pay a dime for this BS. I mean there certainly are different methods for managing pain. I'm actually sure VR will be used as part of pain treatment in the near future as it was already being used on some burn patients.

 

[Binabik15]

Are the US not using the WHO escalation ladder for pain treatment, starting with a non-opioid in non severe cases? That thing is drilled into us day and night.

US opioid addiction and (lethal) overdosing seems to be a real problem from some articles I read, so maybe you're not doing that? If so, WHY?

 

[Somnid]

Doing something doesn't mean we should implement shitty ideas because it's "something".

Also, I know in NYS all opiate prescriptions go into a database. And individual usage is tracked. It's been over a year since my last surgery but is such a database nation wide?

Drug users/dealers know to give fake info and these databases aren't sophisticated so this is not terribly effective. Plus the problem can't really be solved after the fact, if there's psychological addiction it doesn't really go away. You need to prescribe less upfront.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

After I crushed my disk I know I would have been looking forward to an epic harp solo.

 

[SRG01]

Are the US not using the WHO escalation ladder for pain treatment, starting with a non-opioid in non severe cases? That thing is drilled into us day and night.

US opioid addiction and (lethal) overdosing seems to be a real problem from some articles I read, so maybe you're not doing that? If so, WHY?

From a Canadian perspective, our medical clinics and ERs have mostly moved away from opiods as a first line response for non-severe cases. Pharmacies also carry limited supplies of opiods.

In fact, most family doctor offices have signs explicitly stating that they do not prescribe opiods unless the patient has been seeing the doctor for an extended period of time.

 

[inner-G]

Sorry if I implied that the plant is harmful; not the case at all.

As a scientist, I deeply care about efficacy and dose control. The reason why I am pro-synthetics (at least in this case) is because dosages can be precisely measured and controlled against testable outcomes. If there's a controlled method to ensure dosage with plant-based delivery, then I'm all for it.

I don't think it needs to be that scientific, or even regulated at all.

People should be able to grow and administer themselves the plant without any oversight from the government or health care industries. It's effects vary so much from strain to strain and person to person that you can't really apply the logic of a 'standardized dose' to it. Just because you can't, doesn't make it an unviable option, either.

 

[The 18th Letter]

If you're checking into ER, short for Emergency Room, chances are you're in a lot of pain and actually need it.

What helps cause the addiction is that while you're admitted you're free to as much of it as you want and then they write you a prescription for more painkillers when you go home.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

As some one who has two prescription bottles of codeine gone unfinished, I don't understand the appeal. It makes me sleepy for a good 12 hours but if I stay on it for too long I start aching like shit. I stopped taking it after two days because I wanted to get out of bed and do stuff no matter how shitty I felt.

Music has a major effect on people. It's not there to take the pain away but to help calm people down. So many people can get irrate when they're in pain or not getting what they want. If patients are calmed down, doctors can perform their duties more effectively.

I have to say that 1-10 scale is bullshit. They need something that addresses acute pain vs daily pain.

 

[OuterLimits]

I have had a number of kidney stones. Some more painful than others. The most painful ones have caused me constant vomiting. Yeah, if someone was playing a harp, I would probably want to destroy the instrument.

 

[Vilam]

Going to have to make sure no nearby hospitals are legitimizing this bullshit in case I need to make a mental note to completely avoid them in the future.

 

[Stinkles]

I have to say that 1-10 scale is bullshit. They need something that addresses acute pain vs daily pain.

Yeah, I don't know what to tell them. I literally can't walk, I'm hunched over and my eyes are red. But I say 7 anyway because it's not childbirth and I don't want them to think I'm pathetic.