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[Scrow]

Umm, I was going to say something until I saw this:

now I can't remember what I was going to say.

... i forgot what i was going to say too...

 

[Tsubaki]

Some of us prefer to think and use a little strategy in our games rather than just a game that tests our hand eye cordination (not that there is anything wrong with that). Clicking one button over and over again is not what stat based games are about (unless you are playing diablo or something).

Unless I'm misinterpreting you, this is what I read:

"I like automatic progression. I like methodic/strategic approaches to gaming."

The problem is that these two items are kinda contradictory. VF is a perfect example of an action-oriented game where progression comes from your own effort. The more you practice, the more you learn to adapt to situations, the more you learn your opponents, then the better you are as a player. That is progression. As you said, this is true, but it's very dependent on hand/eye coordination.

But you enjoy games that require more strategic planning. Well... don't the same things also apply? As you start out, you may be making simple mistakes, trying to learn the limits of yourself. Trying to learn the limits of your opponents. As you get acquianted with the environments, the enemies, your own units, etc you should also be progressing just by the sheer fact you are soaking in all of this information.

Pseudo-progression through leveling actually takes away from authentic progression. You're given new skills which deal more damage. You're given stats boosters which make you automatically more harder to hit, you take less damage when hit, and you also dish out more damage on enemies. If anything, stats progression leads to -less- strategy because it is not requiring you to utilize what you've learned and gives you a crutch to hold to. It's totally artificial and I wish people would realize that it adds little value to gaming. And in a lot of games, it adds a negative value by forcing you to be a certain level before you can tackle a dungeon.

That is re-gression.

 

[Meantime]

the only thing that you can really say is that VF is better for competition due to the playfield always being even. Picking one character wont give you the upper hand.

Unless you pick Kage, of course

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

I hate Square because almost all force me to fight some scrubs so I can level up again to tackle the next boss

Huh? With few exceptions, Square RPGs haven't forced you to do that since the 80s.

 

[Ramirez]

I believe their should be an option where all players are equally good in sports games.

Why?Stats do not matter in a GOOD sports game.Yes,in Sega Sports games,the stronger team will always destroy a lesser team no matter the players.

But,take Madden for example,FMT won the GAF SB one season with the 49ers,one of,if not the LOWEST ranked team as far as stats go.MVP baseball is the same,I've won a GAF tourny with like the 24th ranked team in the game.A good sports game comes down to the player behind the controller,not the stats of the team.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Unless I'm misinterpreting you, this is what I read:

"I like automatic progression. I like methodic/strategic approaches to gaming."

The problem is that these two items are kinda contradictory. VF is a perfect example of an action-oriented game where progression comes from your own effort. The more you practice, the more you learn to adapt to situations, the more you learn your opponents, then the better you are as a player. That is progression. As you said, this is true, but it's very dependent on hand/eye coordination.

But you enjoy games that require more strategic planning. Well... don't the same things also apply? As you start out, you may be making simple mistakes, trying to learn the limits of yourself. Trying to learn the limits of your opponents. As you get acquianted with the environments, the enemies, your own units, etc you should also be progressing just by the sheer fact you are soaking in all of this information.

Pseudo-progression through leveling actually takes away from authentic progression. You're given new skills which deal more damage. You're given stats boosters which make you automatically more harder to hit, you take less damage when hit, and you also dish out more damage on enemies. If anything, stats progression leads to -less- strategy because it is not requiring you to utilize what you've learned and gives you a crutch to hold to. It's totally artificial and I wish people would realize that it adds little value to gaming. And in a lot of games, it adds a negative value by forcing you to be a certain level before you can tackle a dungeon.

That is re-gression.

Guess I should have said some of us prefer to think and use a little strategy in our games rather than just a game that tests our hand eye cordination and strategy at the same time (ONLY in the case of deep fighters).

Anyway to say stats adds little value to gaming is pure ignorance. It allows us to develop a character as we see fit. We FEEL our characters get stronger which gives some of us an extreme sense of satisfaction. I feel disassociated from a character in a game with no stats, no attachment. When I see my level 60 character in WoW decked out in fancy gear, I feel proud and no way could I delete her.

I also like the way that every battle in a stats based game is important because it helps you get better. In something like a zelda game, i would try to avoid as much fighting as possible because fighting got you nothing. There was no point to do it unless you needed to refill hearts or items or a boss battle. If there were stats to increase or a chance to get some uber weapon drop from creatures, I would kill everything in site in those games (and enjoy it) because of the chance to gain from it.

I can understand someone not liking stats in something like a japanese rpg where a lot of them give you no real character customization. But in a rpg where you control where the stats go and a have a large choice of gear, it gives a real sense of accomplishment when you make a great character.

 

[Thraktor]

Anyway to say stats adds little value to gaming is pure ignorance. It allows us to develop a character as we see fit. We FEEL our characters get stronger which gives some of us an extreme sense of satisfaction. I feel disassociated from a character in a game with no stats, no attachment. When I see my level 60 character in WoW decked out in fancy gear, I feel proud and no way could I delete her.

This is my problem with stats-based games. To me, the use of statistics as a tool to create a bond between player and character is just incredibly artificial. A good game should surely be able to create the same feelings of empathy and pride through other methods than the arbitrary allocation of numbers, should it not? Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed, and still do, a number of statistical RPGs, but I just have the nagging feeling that this is something that videogaming really should be able to evolve beyond,

 

[TheDuce22]

Pure skill based single player gaming is nearly dead as far as I can tell. It seems like they need to stick RPG elements in every freaking game. This world needs more Shinobis.

 

[Pimpbaa]

This is my problem with stats-based games. To me, the use of statistics as a tool to create a bond between player and character is just incredibly artificial. A good game should surely be able to create the same feelings of empathy and pride through other methods than the arbitrary allocation of numbers, should it not? Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed, and still do, a number of statistical RPGs, but I just have the nagging feeling that this is something that videogaming really should be able to evolve beyond,

I don't think there HAS to be numbers, but the character has to be created and evolve in some way by the player rather than just some static premade character forced upon you throughout the whole game. At least in the context of an RPG. I'd like to see an rpg where your character gets stronger (and gains visible muscle) when he swings a large axe or gets better at magic when he uses it. I know Fable kinda did this, but only after you allocated the skill points (I want it happening on the fly calculated behind the scenes while you do things). I would like to see this done without numbers or stats. An extensive character creation at the beginning, large explorable world, tons of loot, and the system I just mentioned I think could make a great game.