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[Tangled Up in Blue]

I was tempted to toss my wireless keyboard at my TV. I can't even....


still no word from NRA, right?

Why would they say anything? The first thing NRA members say* when they see that video is, "Well, he shouldn't have had a gun on him."

Because only white people are supposed to have guns, you see.



*The second thing they say is, "He should have done what the officer told him." Don't bother trying to tell them THAT HE DID WHAT HE WAS TOLD AND HE DIED ANYWAY.

 

[ERotIC]

Nah. He was trolling. He deliberately picked a thread where emotions are running high to voice some stupid and mundane opinion about how "not all cops wake up looking to kill someone", then used that pointless caveat to try and derail the thread.

"NeoGAF, the only website where having a nuanced opinion against emotionally-charged and hyperbolic generalizations makes you the troll."

 

[Tangled Up in Blue]

He was probably worried that the cops would search the car and then freak out when they found it. (which he was correct to be worried about).

If he told the officer he had a gun, he gets shot
If he doesnt tell the officer and they find it, he gets shot
if he runs from the cops, he gets shot.

There is no scenario where he was getting out of there alive.

100% this. That man was dead the minute the cops laid eyes on him.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The United States is the third world country of the first world.

 

[Heroman]

Nah. He was trolling. He deliberately picked a thread where emotions are running high to voice some stupid and mundane opinion about how "not all cops wake up looking to kill someone", then used that pointless caveat to try and derail the thread.

Trolling? Brah I ain't trolling. Coming up with reason for this happen and how to solve isn't trolling.

 

[Enzom21]

How is he trolling?

You guys HAVE to stop accusing posters of trolling just because they have a different opinion than you .

Or you know, people are actually trolling... like all of your posts in the Ted Nugent thread.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Not that it matters now. But was this shit shown to a jury?

Yes it was shown to the jury.

 

[kamineko]

"NeoGAF, the only website where having a nuanced opinion against emotionally-charged and hyperbolic generalizations makes you the troll."

what about hyperbolic generalizations about hyperbolic generalizations?

OT, damn that bit with the daughter is devastating. Heartbreaking.

I know the NRA are a bunch of punks from way back, but I want to express my disgust anyways--they don't even believe their own bullshit.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The NRA came out for Zimmerman, but wouldn't dare come out for Castile.

 

[AlimNassor]

How is he trolling?

You guys HAVE to stop accusing posters of trolling just because they have a different opinion than you .

Opinions can and often are wrong.

 

[ERotIC]

Opinions can and often are wrong.

So how was his opinion wrong?

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Trolling? Brah I ain't trolling. Coming up with reason for this happen and how to solve isn't trolling.

Why do you believe in institutionalized racism but not that people purposely join these institutions to support them as they are?

 

[F34R]

I only support "feared for my life" when there is an underlying reason. I don't see anything in this case that supports that.

While I'm no longer a police officer, my tenure included 6000+ traffic stops. I can't count how many times I stopped someone that was conceal carry, off duty law enforcement, hunters, military personnel, and so forth.

I'll just go with a "basic" stop, for... speeding.

The first thing I always did on every single traffic stop was to assess what I'm walking into. That starts when I can see what's going on in the vehicle. Whether we were traveling opposite each other, or I was already behind them. How many people are in there, what are their actions, etc. That's a basic task to do. Let's walk up to the vehicle after it is stopped, I've already ran the tag, do I recognize anyone as I start seeing a better look at who is in there... if I do, do I know if we have warrants on anyone. Those are just a few of the many things running around in my head before I've even made verbal contact.

Am I nervous at this point? I wouldn't say I was. I'm aware, and cautious, and that's for every single time I'm in contact with anyone at any time. No matter who it is, or what I'm there for.

So.. I get to the back part of the front door, they already rolled down their window. I identify myself, and explain why I stopped them. The driver responds, "Sir, I have a concealed weapons permit and I am carrying my weapon" I simply thank him and ask if his license, registration or insurance information is anywhere in the area of his weapon. If it's a "no", then I ask him to retrieve the documents for me please. If it's a "yes". I'll ask for the name, date of birth, and address, or license number.. I'll write it down. Thank him for the info, walk back to my car, backwards, watching the driver/and any other occupants, while at the same time, constantly checking my surroundings as I walk back.

I get to my car, run the info.. all comes back clear. I ask for whatever physical descriptors listed on the license. I get a good idea if the person matches those features, etc. Write the warning, or ticket, whatever the case may be. Walk back up there, still focusing on my surroundings as well as what I can tell is going on in the vehicle, etc.

Explain the warning/ticket, ask him/her to please be careful with the speed, and then walk back to my car in the careful manner I explained earlier. Open the door, wait until the driver pulls off, then I get in my car and leave.

Now, the things that changes how things go... a persons demeanor when I was able to see them before the cars were stopped, when I make first contact with the driver, and how they act during the time I speak to them.

I've never had to shoot someone. I've had, I dunno exact numbers, maybe a hundred??, calls or stops where I had to pull my weapon because of a possible threat. I've always had a fear of someone pulling a gun on me when things weren't going 100% perfect. There is a point that has to be reached, and I'm sure it's different for every single one of "us" (police). Someone might take things as a definitely life or death situation and their same situation doesn't cross that threshold for me.

I wasn't even a full year out of the academy and I was ambushed. I was patrolling a satellite college campus and saw a man in the middle of the road. It was a road that rounded the campus near the baseball field. He was crouched down, looked messed up/injured. I stopped, called my partner on the radio and told him what I was seeing and where I was. Let dispatch know. I looked around, didn't see anyone else. I get out, start walking towards him. I can see blood on his face and he was holding his chest. I get about 5 feet past the headlights of my car, and he's about 10 feet away... he jumps up and rushes me. I started retreating and was pulling my gun out at the same time. Next thing I know, I woke up in the hospital a few days later. There was a second guy in the woods, who came up behind me and hit me in the head with a brick.

The video from my car was terrifying. They were trying to get my gun while I was knocked out. They were pulling on it so hard, I was being lifted off the ground. Lucky for me I had a level 3 holster. You literally can't simply just pull it out.

I was also stabbed in the back during a HUGE fight that broke out. over 100 people and I was in the middle of it.

Anyways...

What I can see from what happened in this case, I most certainly wouldn't have shot this guy. I also think he should have been found guilty at least.. but that's based on my own feelings as to how I would react in a similar situation, and what my threshold is for deadly force.

Sorry for the long post. Just had my wheels turning about how my reactions are compared to what happened in this case.

 

[nkarafo]

Most of the murders i see committed by the police is because the cops couldn't handle a situation, panicked or escalated things themselves.

I guess becoming a police officer who carries a gun around and points it to people does not require any credentials or qualifications.

 

[DarthWoo]

Most of the murders i see committed by the police is because the cops couldn't handle a situation, panicked or escalated things themselves.

I guess becoming a police officer who carries a gun around and points it to people does not require any credentials or qualifications.

You can literally be too smart or have too high an aptitude to qualify for the force.

 

[AlimNassor]

Most of the murders i see committed by the police is because the cops couldn't handle a situation, panicked or escalated things themselves.

I guess becoming a police officer who carries a gun around and points it to people does not require any credentials or qualifications.

Police are trained to shoot first ask later. Split second decisions, and all that. It's drilled into their heads that if someone who is armed or not armed makes a move without permission; shoot to kill. As soon as Phil reached for his wallet that was all the justification they needed to kill him. Police reform will never happen so long as Police are seen as icons.

 

[Heroman]

Why do you believe in institutionalized racism but not that people purposely join these institutions to support them as they are?

Because institutionalized racism is a apart of every day Life and happens every day in every social institute. The cj system is no different.

 

[Suikoguy]

Thanks for sharing your experience F34R.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Because institutionalized racism is a apart of every day Life and happens every day in every social institute. The cj system is no different.

Yeah, so why don't you think people join the criminal justice system specifically to uphold institutionalized racism?

 

[ERotIC]

Sorry for the long post. Just had my wheels turning about how my reactions are compared to what happened in this case.

I certainly don't envy the police's duties and experiences. Glad you made it through with your safety and sanity intact.

 

[F34R]

Thanks for sharing your experience F34R.

You're welcome. It's disheartening for sure to see things like this happen. I'm not perfect by any means, but I've never shot anyone either; even when by law it would be justified. The law can only take me so far.

I certainly don't envy the police's duties and experiences. Glad you made it through with your safety and sanity intact.

I'm safe now, yes.. sane.. that's debatable lol.

 

[Heroman]

Yeah, so why don't you think people join the criminal justice system specifically to uphold institutionalized racism?

Because it doesn't happen in any other social social institution. Like the social institute of health care and education are just as rasict as the cj system but people don't join them to continue institutionalized racism.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Because it doesn't happen in any other social social institution. Like the social institute of health care and education are just as rasict as the cj system but people don't join them to continue institutionalized racism.

What exactly makes you think they don't, faith in mankind?


I seem to remember a poster here who was a teacher that purposefully failed a young black kid who deserved to pass

 

[Broank]

What the fuck?

That's even worse than I thought. He clearly and calmly tells the officer he has a firearm, calmly tells him he's not pulling it out when the officer says don't pull it out (and starts panicking). Than seconds after saying that gets blasted a shit load of times point blank by the officer and you can hear him saying no no as it's happening. Disturbing..

Officer straight up murdered him and put many others at risk in what was a calm situation.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Fuck murderous cops and the blue wall that protects them.

 

[Heroman]

What exactly makes you think they don't, faith in mankind?


I seem to remember a poster here who was a teacher that purposefully failed a young black kid who deserved to pass

Honestly it to much work for like 99% of people to do that.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Because it doesn't happen in any other social social institution. Like the social institute of health care and education are just as rasict as the cj system but people don't join them to continue institutionalized racism.

Lol what?

Man, I almost envy your naïveté

 

[DarthWoo]

Honestly it to much work for like 99% of people to do that.

That still leaves one percent, which can be a lot of people. Even if we take this statement as true, that only reinforces why people would join the police specifically for racist purposes, as such a position affords an abusive individual far more power to fulfill their racist fantasies than any of those other mentioned occupations. Let's also not forget that FBI investigations have found that white supremacist gangs have purposefully infiltrated police forces around the nation. I doubt their intentions are at all altruistic.

 

[Heroman]

That still leaves one percent, which can be a lot of people. Even if we take this statement as true, that only reinforces why people would join the police specifically for racist purposes, as such a position affords an abusive individual far more power to fulfill their racist fantasies than any of those other mentioned occupations. Let's also not forget that FBI investigations have found that white supremacist gangs have purposefully infiltrated police forces around the nation. I doubt their intentions are at all altruistic.

That one percent isn't the problem or a very significant part , it's America culture and how we view race is the problem. The racism in the cj system happens in almost every state and I don't think hate groups or old / new school rasict is the reason why it skill happen. America has a problem with black that a large of portion white Americans ,who make most of the police force ,have whether they like to or not.

 

[aznpxdd]

Holy shit just saw the clip of the little girl. Fuck the police for real, we are a sad, sad country.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

12 jurors.
10 white.
2 black - one of which the defense attempted to remove for being 'unfamiliar with US legal system'.

I can see why the results are what they are.

 

[Keio]

I only support "feared for my life" when there is an underlying reason. I don't see anything in this case that supports that.

While I'm no longer a police officer, my tenure included 6000+ traffic stops. I can't count how many times I stopped someone that was conceal carry, off duty law enforcement, hunters, military personnel, and so forth.

I'll just go with a "basic" stop, for... speeding.

The first thing I always did on every single traffic stop was to assess what I'm walking into. That starts when I can see what's going on in the vehicle. Whether we were traveling opposite each other, or I was already behind them. How many people are in there, what are their actions, etc. That's a basic task to do. Let's walk up to the vehicle after it is stopped, I've already ran the tag, do I recognize anyone as I start seeing a better look at who is in there... if I do, do I know if we have warrants on anyone. Those are just a few of the many things running around in my head before I've even made verbal contact.

Am I nervous at this point? I wouldn't say I was. I'm aware, and cautious, and that's for every single time I'm in contact with anyone at any time. No matter who it is, or what I'm there for.

So.. I get to the back part of the front door, they already rolled down their window. I identify myself, and explain why I stopped them. The driver responds, "Sir, I have a concealed weapons permit and I am carrying my weapon" I simply thank him and ask if his license, registration or insurance information is anywhere in the area of his weapon. If it's a "no", then I ask him to retrieve the documents for me please. If it's a "yes". I'll ask for the name, date of birth, and address, or license number.. I'll write it down. Thank him for the info, walk back to my car, backwards, watching the driver/and any other occupants, while at the same time, constantly checking my surroundings as I walk back.

I get to my car, run the info.. all comes back clear. I ask for whatever physical descriptors listed on the license. I get a good idea if the person matches those features, etc. Write the warning, or ticket, whatever the case may be. Walk back up there, still focusing on my surroundings as well as what I can tell is going on in the vehicle, etc.

Explain the warning/ticket, ask him/her to please be careful with the speed, and then walk back to my car in the careful manner I explained earlier. Open the door, wait until the driver pulls off, then I get in my car and leave.

Now, the things that changes how things go... a persons demeanor when I was able to see them before the cars were stopped, when I make first contact with the driver, and how they act during the time I speak to them.

I've never had to shoot someone. I've had, I dunno exact numbers, maybe a hundred??, calls or stops where I had to pull my weapon because of a possible threat. I've always had a fear of someone pulling a gun on me when things weren't going 100% perfect. There is a point that has to be reached, and I'm sure it's different for every single one of "us" (police). Someone might take things as a definitely life or death situation and their same situation doesn't cross that threshold for me.

I wasn't even a full year out of the academy and I was ambushed. I was patrolling a satellite college campus and saw a man in the middle of the road. It was a road that rounded the campus near the baseball field. He was crouched down, looked messed up/injured. I stopped, called my partner on the radio and told him what I was seeing and where I was. Let dispatch know. I looked around, didn't see anyone else. I get out, start walking towards him. I can see blood on his face and he was holding his chest. I get about 5 feet past the headlights of my car, and he's about 10 feet away... he jumps up and rushes me. I started retreating and was pulling my gun out at the same time. Next thing I know, I woke up in the hospital a few days later. There was a second guy in the woods, who came up behind me and hit me in the head with a brick.

The video from my car was terrifying. They were trying to get my gun while I was knocked out. They were pulling on it so hard, I was being lifted off the ground. Lucky for me I had a level 3 holster. You literally can't simply just pull it out.

I was also stabbed in the back during a HUGE fight that broke out. over 100 people and I was in the middle of it.

Anyways...

What I can see from what happened in this case, I most certainly wouldn't have shot this guy. I also think he should have been found guilty at least.. but that's based on my own feelings as to how I would react in a similar situation, and what my threshold is for deadly force.

Sorry for the long post. Just had my wheels turning about how my reactions are compared to what happened in this case.

Quoted in full as I respect your experiences and how you analyze the situation of a traffic stop. Well written.

 

[ColdPizza]

12 jurors.
10 white.
2 black - one of which the defense attempted to remove for being 'unfamiliar with US legal system'.

I can see why the results are what they are.

Juries are representative of the relative composition of a community. The jury pool was mathematically already a majority of white people.

Add to this that this was a pretty big national news event, so the likelihood of finding an impartial black person who hadn't heard of the case goes down even further.

 

[NegroNinja]

"NeoGAF, the only website where having a nuanced opinion against emotionally-charged and hyperbolic generalizations makes you the troll."

So the black experience in america is emotionally charged and hyperbolic?

 

[ColdPizza]

So the black experience in america is emotionally charged and hyperbolic?

He said NeoGAF, not America.

 

[Nephtis]

Nah. He was trolling. He deliberately picked a thread where emotions are running high to voice some stupid and mundane opinion about how "not all cops wake up looking to kill someone", then used that pointless caveat to try and derail the thread.

To be fair, I strongly agree with that. I don't think that cops are out to kill someone - I don't think they look at a black person and say "oh man, it's a good day to kill that person". That's as far as I will go with my agreement though, and that's on a general sense.

In this case, whether the cop was truly afraid, or just panicked due to incompetence, it doesn't matter. That guy is a murderer and should have gone to jail. Just because you're a cop and fuck up and kill someone doesn't mean you should get a free pass. He should've been held accountable, and the NRA should have rallied behind Castile's family.

It's one thing when the system is against you, as Noah Trevor said - it's a whole other thing when a jury sees that video and still thinks "oh, well he was afraid, it's ok". Why the hell should these laws be based on feelings, and not facts? Why is it ok for the cop to be afraid and resort to killing someone? If Castile was the one that panicked and killed the cop, you bet your ass he'd be in jail, "fearing for his life" be damned.

Fuck that jury with their miscarriage of justice. Fuck the justice system that allows cops to kill without repercussions, and fuck the NRA for not being behind Castile, even after all the evidence that has surfaced that showed he was doing the right thing.

 

[NegroNinja]

He said NeoGAF, not America.

Ummm ok? I know what he said. Its still black people giving their opinions in this thread based off of their experiences living in America. To say that those opinions are hyperbolic and extreme is just ignorance.

Edit: Especially when there are numerous studies and reports of prejudice and racism in police stations across the country. Along with institutional racism fucking over black people on a daily basis. Just say "not all cops" and leave the thread.

 

[n64coder]

I simply thank him and ask if his license, registration or insurance information is anywhere in the area of his weapon. If it's a "no", then I ask him to retrieve the documents for me please. If it's a "yes". I'll ask for the name, date of birth, and address, or license number.. I'll write it down. Thank him for the info, walk back to my car, backwards, watching the driver/and any other occupants, while at the same time, constantly checking my surroundings as I walk back.

Thanks for describing a situation and how you would handle it. Is there a way you could get the license/registration even though it's near the gun? Like, ask him/her to step out of the car, cuff him/her and then you get the gun/license/registration? Or call for backup and ask your colleague to assist?

In the course of your normal duties, do you always wear a bullet-proof vest for protection or is that only used in certain scenarios?

 

[shadow_shogun]

The Truth About the Philando Castile Verdict: The Daily Show

 

[Tovarisc]

Saw this video last night.

How the person who is that afraid and jumpy gets to be cop and be given firearm?

 

[F34R]

Quoted in full as I respect your experiences and how you analyze the situation of a traffic stop. Well written.

I appreciate that. I've had a conceal carry gentleman act all pissed off when I stopped him. There's a common theme when you stop a car. It's not a happy safe space. I've never met any single person that was genuinely happy that I pulled them over. Polite, respectful, and cooperated, sure.. never happy smiling, enthusiastic about the idea of getting a ticket.

That being said, handling situations when people are upset, trying to belittle you for taking their money (even though I've never actually received money on the side of the road), taking away from the funds they've been saving for Christmas; we could go all day long about the things people say to try and make you feel bad for doing your job.

Back to how I handle that... I will raise my awareness levels, sure. Does that put me in the zone where it's getting closer to the "fear for me life" threshold? No. The mentality is that you have to understand that people might be upset that they are about to get a ticket, they've had a bad day, they just got fired, sig. other was found to be cheating, infinite amount of things people can have going on in their lives, and this adds a PLUS 1 to the stress.

I'm always polite, and 100% honest, even when being berated. I explain the reason I stopped, get the info I need, and do the procedures needed to be done in order to keep this person for as little time as possible. It gets a little worse when you are told by dispatch that the license is suspended, or there are active warrants, or the car was reported stolen. I still maintain my level of security for myself, but also for the person or persons I'm dealing with.

I explain that the license is suspended and I'm going to have to arrest you for driving with a suspended license. I've gathered all the info available to our dispatch, so I can explain why the license is suspended. Could be failure to pay property taxes, ticket(S), FR10 wasn't turned in (that's a financial responsibility form used in accident investigations)... I will tell them, politely, that I'm going to get all the paperwork done as soon as I leave the jail so that they can get a timely bond hearing. I'll driver over to the judges office with the paperwork and I'll hand it to him and let him know that "you" are ready for the hearing. The rest will be on his plate.

Putting them at ease, which is hard to do when you're take someone to jail, taking their freedom from them, helps keep people from getting hurt. I don't want to have to deal with a physical altercation. I have a lot of respect for human life, and the well being of others. That being said, I will do what is necessary to ensure that someone isn't shot, and that I can still go home when my shift is over. Shooting someone is my last resort. I would have to be in a situation that all other means of deescalation have been used and the person in front of me continues to threaten me with more than just words. Deescalation would mean in that case as verbal and physical means.

The thirteen years I was on the force, there were a dozen of times where using deadly force was completely reasonable for me, and legal. That's not how I'm wired though.
I said earlier about being stabbed... that shit hurts. I bled a lot. I didn't shoot the guy, I tackled his ass, broke his hand because he wouldn't drop the knife, cuffed him, and he's still in prison now. He writes to his family every year on the anniversary of that day and asks them to thank me for not taking his life and that he's sorry for trying to take mine. That was in late 2000. Any time his family sees me in public, they cry and thank me. Is that how anyone else would handle it? I don't have a clue.

Something as "simple" as a traffic stop isn't really simple, safe, or anything remotely a calm situation. It's how you present yourself, and how the offender reacts that determines what happens next. Traffic stops are extremely dangerous. Third most reason for death of cops last year was being struck by other vehicles. Being outside that car puts you at an enormous risk (I know first hand and I was LUCKY to have lived), and I wasn't even thought to survive when it happened to me.

Again, sorry for the long posts. I could go on hours and hours with this.

 

[chalkitdown1]

The Truth About the Philando Castile Verdict: The Daily Show

Trevor is finally feeling that anger than Jon began showing in his final few years hosting. He's sick of the bullshit already and he's only been in the US for a short while.

 

[Keasar]

The Truth About the Philando Castile Verdict: The Daily Show

I had decided not to see it, I understood just by the description everyone was giving of it how awful it was.

But to actually see it now on that episode, I feel fucking broken. I am crying how disgusting it was. Fuck...

 

[Formless]

Saw this video last night.

How the person who is that afraid and jumpy gets to be cop and be given firearm?

Cops' training really sucks and they often patrol areas where they don't know anyone. Also put in a culture where they're trained to treat most things as threats...

 

[Llyranor]

Because it doesn't happen in any other social social institution. Like the social institute of health care and education are just as rasict as the cj system but people don't join them to continue institutionalized racism.

White police officers are more racist than the average white population.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1333212

What exactly makes you think they don't, faith in mankind?


I seem to remember a poster here who was a teacher that purposefully failed a young black kid who deserved to pass

That was an anonymous confession, a good number of which are fake. It might be true, but it have also been to rile up the thread.

 

[Kevinroc]

The Truth About the Philando Castile Verdict: The Daily Show

Just saw this (and the dashcam video they showed with it).

Jesus... Hearing about the situation, reading about the situation, that's one thing. But seeing the situation... Seeing the kid run out of the car. Seeing the girlfriend keeping herself together just moments after seeing her boyfriend get shot multiple times... It's heartbreaking. It is absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[george_us]

Saw the video yesterday on MSNBC. Blood was boiling.

 

[Keio]

Being outside that car puts you at an enormous risk (I know first hand and I was LUCKY to have lived), and I wasn't even thought to survive when it happened to me.

Again, sorry for the long posts. I could go on hours and hours with this.

Again I want to say I appreciate the long posts - and I'm sure there are a thousand readers who do so while following the thread, but since you are not posting "controversial" comments there are no replies.

I feel what you write underlines what a hard job being a police officer is, and why training is of utmost importance - not just being able to follow procedure but also the psychological aspect of controlling your response to situation, maintaining both physical and mental control of the surroundings and emotional state of participants etc - it's a pity what we hear is budget cuts that impact just this part of policing, which leads to members on the force being ill-equipped to face these tough situations.

 

[darkinstinct]

If that wasn't manslaughter I don't know what is.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

White police officers are more racist than the average white population.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1333212

To be fair, that could speak to their levels of education and social class more than anything else.

I mean, I'd assume this is a correlating factor too, surely? Someone already pointed out that you can be 'too smart' for the US police force and surely it should stand to reason also that less educated = likely more racist.

Not saying that people don't join the police to uphold racism, I'm just arguing that maybe the kind of person that joins is just more predisposed to racism due to a number of determining factors.