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Apple Pay now available in UK

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Carl

Member
Sees pointless considering contactless. Not that i've ever seen anyone pay by contactless but apparently it is a thing :p

I'm still stuck in the 20th century and use cash 100% of the time on the high street
 

Ashes

Banned
Sees pointless considering contactless. Not that i've ever seen anyone pay by contactless but apparently it is a thing :p

I'm still stuck in the 20th century and use cash 100% of the time on the high street

Not even oyster cards on busses and trains?
 

Zutroy

Member
It's pretty short sighted to say it's pointless. The plan is obviously to eventually get rid of the spending limit once adoption starts to increase.

It also has additional benefits:
More secure transactions
Instant records of transactions
If your phone is stolen, thief probably still can't access them because of TouchID.
Instantly erase them from the phone via iCloud instead of having to contact individual banks
Eventually one less item in your pocket
 

Akyan

Member
I gave this a whirl today, quite nifty for shops/lunch etc.

However, the TFL (tube) experience isn't great. It takes ages to get it to register the tap in on the barriers so will likely stick to using my contactless card for travel.
 
I assume it's not possible to link an Oyster travel card to Apple Pay yet, right? Still not sure how comfortable that's going to be with the card readers being on the opposite side from my watch though.
 

Jill Sandwich

the turds of Optimus Prime
Not the Oyster card itself but you can register your debit/credit card on the TFL website and it'll work the same way.
 

Volotaire

Member
It's pretty short sighted to say it's pointless. The plan is obviously to eventually get rid of the spending limit once adoption starts to increase.

It also has additional benefits:
More secure transactions
Instant records of transactions
If your phone is stolen, thief probably still can't access them because of TouchID.
Instantly erase them from the phone via iCloud instead of having to contact individual banks
Eventually one less item in your pocket

I would definitely think about using it once Google pay/Wallet is supported, more places in the UK support it and owning a phone with a fingerprint scanner. Although, this is less of a problem for me since I'm in London most of the time.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Paying with Amex on Apple Pay gives you Oyster prices, which is awesome. I never have my Oyster with me, and always end up buying a new one because of how much cheaper the rates are compared to single tickets. I have probably a dozen Oysters at home
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
My wife's iPhone 5S still doesn't show Apple Pay. Correct region settings, rebooted, updated, nothing. Her iPad got it fine though.
 

Kuros

Member
There's been a lot of hype about this but it seems kinda pointless?

It's not a big thing over here as most of us have contactless cards anyway rather than having to sign as happens in the states.

Even those who don't have contactless have chip and pin which is really fast anyway.
 
Tried setting it up this morning for my Natwest debit card but it doesn't seem to like it. Says it's not available despite Natwest being there for launch. Could be because I'm on a Graduate account or something I guess. Ah well.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Nothing on my 6+ yet.

Sees pointless considering contactless. Not that i've ever seen anyone pay by contactless but apparently it is a thing :p

I'm still stuck in the 20th century and use cash 100% of the time on the high street

I agree, I only use cash and chip & pin, have never used contactless yet.
 

numble

Member
Do contact less cards require a pin in the UK?

The security measure probably is because there is no authentication mechanism for contact-less cards. If you steal a card and tap to pay for something expensive, there is no signature or PIN to authenticate against.

Ideally they would raise the limit for contactless payments that have some type of authentication measure.
 

Mindwipe

Member
It's pretty short sighted to say it's pointless. The plan is obviously to eventually get rid of the spending limit once adoption starts to increase.

It also has additional benefits:
More secure transactions
Instant records of transactions
If your phone is stolen, thief probably still can't access them because of TouchID.
Instantly erase them from the phone via iCloud instead of having to contact individual banks
Eventually one less item in your pocket

Against the downsides of

* Gives Apple editorial control of your spending decisions with their known capacity to abuse that.
* Runs out of battery on a regular basis so you can't pay for anything.

That doesn't seem very useful. I think the online payments part of Apple Pay has some appeal, but the contactless part seems inferior to existing solutions unless you're in a country with completely broken card security, which the UK isn't.
 

numble

Member
Against the downsides of

* Gives Apple editorial control of your spending decisions with their known capacity to abuse that.
* Runs out of battery on a regular basis so you can't pay for anything.

That doesn't seem very useful. I think the online payments part of Apple Pay has some appeal, but the contactless part seems inferior to existing solutions unless you're in a country with completely broken card security, which the UK isn't.

What editorial control? It seems like it would be available everywhere contactless payments are available.

I really have never run out of battery when out and about, so I guess that's something that will rarely happen to me.

UK seems to have broken card security to be wary of contactless payments over 20-30 pounds.
 

Mindwipe

Member
What editorial control? It seems like it would be available everywhere contactless payments are available.

Apple can chose to arbitrarily deny payments for any reason between any individual, or exclude their payment terminals from Apple Pay.

I really have never run out of battery when out and about, so I guess that's something that will rarely happen to me.

You're unusual then. When I dumped iOS I had to charge my iPhone three times a day on average.

UK seems to have broken card security to be wary of contactless payments over 20-30 pounds.

That's stronger security, not broken. It's because the banks do not consider Apple Pay to be inherently more secure than a normal contactless card. Which I'd agree with given it only has a short deployment lifespan and is effectively untested.
 

iNvid02

Member
barclays said they wouldn't be supporting it last month, i think they imagined everyone would be happy buying their paytag wearables, or hoped pingit would evolve into something like that, but they just caved in today.

still seems like a novelty though considering that contactless is still not widely accepted, and the current £20-£30 transaction limit, but if anyone's going to disrupt the status quo its apple.

edit: and i like my wallet anyway (exentri). sliding cards out with your thumb is nifty

ourwallet31-1600x610.jpg
 

numble

Member
Apple can chose to arbitrarily deny payments for any reason between any individual, or exclude their payment terminals from Apple Pay.

You're unusual then. When I dumped iOS I had to charge my iPhone three times a day on average.

That's stronger security, not broken. It's because the banks do not consider Apple Pay to be inherently more secure than a normal contactless card. Which I'd agree with given it only has a short deployment lifespan and is effectively untested.

Can you please cite these terms and indicate how they are different from other terms for say, card issuers.

Do you have statistics that indicate I am unusual? The actual testing from third party reviewers do not indicate that an iPhone needs to be charged 3 times a day. I would argue that it is unusual to charge it 3 times a day.

I don't think the banks are doing it because they think it is inherently more secure, that's a built-in limitation of the terminals right now. That's why they're telling people that newer or upgraded terminals will accept Apple Pay without the restriction.

Another restriction is that just as tap-and-go card transactions are limited to £20 - rising to £30 in September - the same will be true of Apple Pay at many retailers.
Stores can, however, upgrade their back-end software systems to recognise fingerprint readings as an ID-check alternative to pin codes in order to remove that cap.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33489066

"Currently the vast majority of payment terminals here in the UK are set to accept contactless transactions up to the £20 spending limit, but that will rise to £30 in September (for cards as well)," a spokesman for MasterCard told Pocket-lint when we asked about clarification on the limit thresholds.

"As more digital services like Apple Pay come to market, we're [MasterCard] supporting retailers and banks as they update the terminals so that they can accept authenticated transactions above that limit from digital devices."
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/134205-apple-pay-uk-some-retailers-to-ditch-20-contactless-limit
 

numble

Member
So if your thing gets lifted, a possible thief could rinse out a lot of you money and the bank will be like:

VqNCCXF.gif

The upgraded terminals will only remove the limit for authenticated transactions, such as the biometric authentication on iPhones and Apple Watch.
 
Contactless payments fromdebit card seem like a huge security risk to me. I was t an airport a while ago and entered my pin wrong after being awake for about 20 hours, and they shop assistant just scanned the card without ny input from me... Anyone could just pick up my card and do that. No thanks.
 

kharma45

Member
Contactless payments fromdebit card seem like a huge security risk to me. I was t an airport a while ago and entered my pin wrong after being awake for about 20 hours, and they shop assistant just scanned the card without ny input from me... Anyone could just pick up my card and do that. No thanks.

Contactless fraud is extremely rare. It's less than 1p in every £100. Your card can only be used a maximum of three times before requiring a PIN, and the amount that can be spent is capped. Plus if your card has been stolen and is used fraudulently you'll be reimbursed provided you've reported it.
 

Jill Sandwich

the turds of Optimus Prime
Well I just bought a chicken and chorizo sammich, white chocolate cookie and large latte at Greggs with my watch. It was quick and painless.
 

samn

Member
Against the downsides of

* Gives Apple editorial control of your spending decisions with their known capacity to abuse that.
* Runs out of battery on a regular basis so you can't pay for anything.

That doesn't seem very useful. I think the online payments part of Apple Pay has some appeal, but the contactless part seems inferior to existing solutions unless you're in a country with completely broken card security, which the UK isn't.

The first point is completely wrong. Apple have no idea what people buy with Apple Pay.

Second point is also wrong as Apple Watch battery life is pretty good, and if it fails, use your iPhone.

As for card security, you can take someone's contactless card and buy up to £20 (soon £30) of stuff at a time without any validation, signature or PIN. I'd say that's at least slightly broken after the huge fuss made over the benefits of chip and PIN. If you use Apple Pay you need Touch ID (on iPhone) or a passcode (Watch).
 

NekoFever

Member
* Gives Apple editorial control of your spending decisions with their known capacity to abuse that.

lolwut

Nobody except you and your bank knows where you spend your money with Apple Pay. That's more private than using a card, as the merchant can track your purchasing history that way.
 
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