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[Yoda]

ARM based Macs is a big blow to Intel. ARM is starting to catch on for cloud too (you can rent ARM based ec2 instances in AWS). So we have 3 realms of computing where ARM now competes against x86 and is in what I'd call 2nd place. It also has a monopoly on the mobile and most likely displace x86 in the laptop space.

Mobile -> ARM
Laptops -> x86 (for now) > ARM
Desktop/Console -> x86 > ARM
Server -> x86 > ARM

I'm unsure about desktop, but cloud could also forfeit a lot of its dominance to x86. A lot of what runs on AWS doesn't need to be running on processors designed for sustained load, which is where ARM reigns supreme and most likely will be cheaper in the long run (power use). Intel really needs to get its act together, the struggle of getting from 14nm to 10nm has really crippled the company's long-term prospects.

 

[O-N-E]

Saved for future use.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I bought a Macbook pro 2 years ago. How long are they going to support intel with OS updates? I plan on getting a new mac with apple silicon, but not right away.

 

[Benjamin_MFF]

What's going on with Final Cut Pro? I heard something about "4k workflows using 16gb of ram" but didn't find any headlines highlighting the changes.

 

[PSYGN]

I bought a Macbook pro 2 years ago. How long are they going to support intel with OS updates? I plan on getting a new mac with apple silicon, but not right away.

I'm guessing they'll support us with new versions for the next 5 years and will eventually go AMD-only updates and leave Intel users with just critical security updates.

 

[newtypepilot]

woah app drawer and widgets

only took like 10+ years. That's COURAGE!!

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

What's going on with Final Cut Pro? I heard something about "4k workflows using 16gb of ram" but didn't find any headlines highlighting the changes.

It was just them highlighting that their pro apps are already up and running on ARM silicon and pushing a heavy workload.

 

[mango drank]

I bought a Macbook pro 2 years ago. How long are they going to support intel with OS updates? I plan on getting a new mac with apple silicon, but not right away.

I think when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel, they updated OS X on PowerPC for another 2-3 years? For this new transition, I wouldn't hold my breath for them to support Intel macOS much longer than that. So around 2023 is when you'll see the absolute last Intel macOS updates, I'll bet. (Fake edit: or maybe I'm thinking of Adobe apps being updated on old hardware for only 2-3 years.)

Tim said on-stage that they'll expect the transition to take about 2 years, which probably includes supporting Intel during that time.

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

I think when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel, they updated OS X on PowerPC for another 2-3 years? For this new transition, I wouldn't hold my breath for them to support Intel macOS much longer than that. So around 2023 is when you'll see the absolute last Intel macOS updates, I'll bet. (Fake edit: or maybe I'm thinking of Adobe apps being updated on old hardware for only 2-3 years.)

Tim said on-stage that they'll expect the transition to take about 2 years, which probably includes supporting Intel during that time.

Yeah he mentioned supporting Intel Macs for years to come and they also have more Intel Macs coming out in the future. Don't know how long "years" is though until they put some actual numbers up.

 

[Dr Bass]

I bought a Macbook pro 2 years ago. How long are they going to support intel with OS updates? I plan on getting a new mac with apple silicon, but not right away.

They said several years or something like that. I wouldn't be too worried about it if you've already had it two years. You should be good for at least 3+ more.

 

[Kazekage1981]

1) is apple doing the same thing like Microsoft with Windows for ARM?
2) In terms of performance, does ARM even compete with x86 AMD and Intel processors-particularly for desktops? You only have a few die shrinks left until quantum computing
3) If they didnt like Intel, why not just go with AMD? They have a great portfolio of CPU, GPU, APU

The new MAC OS looks sleek and polished and love the transparent effects. Reminds me of Windows 7 aero/glass effect. Wish windows 10 would use that

 

[dottme]

It going a little deep sometime. But then end about the security, new boot sequence is interesting i think.
https://developer.apple.com/wwdc20/10686 Check out Explore the new system architecture of Apple Silicon Macs from #wwdc20

 

[entremet]

1) is apple doing the same thing like Microsoft with Windows for ARM?
2) In terms of performance, does ARM even compete with x86 AMD and Intel processors-particularly for desktops? You only have a few die shrinks left until quantum computing
3) If they didnt like Intel, why not just go with AMD? They have a great portfolio of CPU, GPU, APU

The new MAC OS looks sleek and polished and love the transparent effects. Reminds me of Windows 7 aero/glass effect. Wish windows 10 would use that

Apple's implementation one-ups MS's because Apple controls the whole vertical chain. MS still needs to work with hardware partners, which makes things harder and slower.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

1) is apple doing the same thing like Microsoft with Windows for ARM?
2) In terms of performance, does ARM even compete with x86 AMD and Intel processors-particularly for desktops? You only have a few die shrinks left until quantum computing
3) If they didnt like Intel, why not just go with AMD? They have a great portfolio of CPU, GPU, APU

The new MAC OS looks sleek and polished and love the transparent effects. Reminds me of Windows 7 aero/glass effect. Wish windows 10 would use that

They stand to make a shitload of money by more or less using the same chips they are already making themselves in mass quantities for iPads and iPhones.

 

[DonMigs85]

I wonder which Macs are next on the chopping block for OS updates. I guess 2012 Macs that support Metal will still be supported a bit longer.

 

[dottme]

It looks like the A12Z won’t even be in any mac for end user:

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I would really like to know how much time Federghi spends a day looking at his mirror.

 

[MaestroMike]

lol he looks like a movie star

 

[Night.Ninja]

So it it worth buying a 2020 Mac book pro now ?

 

[Badlucktroll]

So it it worth buying a 2020 Mac book pro now ?

I bought a macbook pro 2 years ago so i'm not worried, but I wouldn't buy one now. I would wait at least a year.

 

[TheContact]

If Macs start moving to ARM wouldn't MacOS have to be completely restructured to run on ARM vs x86?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

So it it worth buying a 2020 Mac book pro now ?

I bought the (2019) 16" and it's heavenly. The ARM transition will be 2 years and apps will be compatible with both. It all depends on what and when you want/need it.

 

[jts]

If Macs start moving to ARM wouldn't MacOS have to be completely restructured to run on ARM vs x86?

Yeah it needs to be rewritten for ARM but that's done already and probably has existed internally for a long time. Just like before Mac switched from PowerPC to Intel, Apple already had x86 versions of OSX running for a while.

 

[Bryank75]

 

[Dr Bass]

If Macs start moving to ARM wouldn't MacOS have to be completely restructured to run on ARM vs x86?

It essentially needs to be recompiled for ARM. It's more in depth than that but the high level version of it is basically recompiling all of the C/C++/ObjectiveC/Swift code or whatever else lies in the massive code base to run on the ARM instruction set instead of the X86 instruction set. ARM or X86 are the actual computer instructions a CPU runs, and the instruction set translates directly to the 1s and 0s moving through the CPUs wires/gates.

So I could write something like:

if (neogaf) {
cool = true;
} else if (resetEra) {
cool = false;
}

and on x86 this could translate to assembly code of something like (and I dont know x86 or arm opcodes off the type of my head so this stuff is psuedo code)

str: "neogaf"

mv ax, 1
mv bx, str
cmp ax, bx
...
..

which then translates into machine code like (these would be 8 bit instructions i.e. an 8 bit cpu):
11101001
11110111
01101110

but on arm that same code would compile to perhaps something like:

str: "neogaf"

mov r0, 1
mov r1, str
com r0, r1
..
..

which might actually translate to machine code like (again 8 bit in this crappy demo):
00000001
00001110
01000001


etc etc. So the issue is basically the layout of the machine code and how that data actually feeds through the cpus since they have different instructions which translate to different 1s and 0s essentially. Again that above was really rough but it's the general idea. So you could have the same source code and it would compile down to very different assembly/machine code depending on your architecture.

This explanation is leaving out a lot of stuff, but I don't think it's really important to illustrate the general idea.

 

[jts]

It essentially needs to be recompiled for ARM. It's more in depth than that but the high level version of it is basically recompiling all of the C/C++/ObjectiveC/Swift code or whatever else lies in the massive code base to run on the ARM instruction set instead of the X86 instruction set. ARM or X86 are the actual computer instructions a CPU runs, and the instruction set translates directly to the 1s and 0s moving through the CPUs wires/gates.

So I could write something like:

if (neogaf) {
cool = true;
} else if (resetEra) {
cool = false;
}

and on x86 this could translate to assembly code of something like (and I dont know x86 or arm opcodes off the type of my head so this stuff is psuedo code)

str: "neogaf"

mv ax, 1
mv bx, str
cmp ax, bx
...
..

which then translates into machine code like (these would be 8 bit instructions i.e. an 8 bit cpu):
11101001
11110111
01101110

but on arm that same code would compile to perhaps something like:

str: "neogaf"

mov r0, 1
mov r1, str
com r0, r1
..
..

which might actually translate to machine code like (again 8 bit in this crappy demo):
00000001
00001110
01000001


etc etc. So the issue is basically the layout of the machine code and how that data actually feeds through the cpus since they have different instructions which translate to different 1s and 0s essentially. Again that above was really rough but it's the general idea. So you could have the same source code and it would compile down to very different assembly/machine code depending on your architecture.

This explanation is leaving out a lot of stuff, but I don't think it's really important to illustrate the general idea.

 

[Dr Bass]

 

[Badlucktroll]

I wonder if i restore a time machine backup from an intel mac to an apple silicon mac, if my intel apps will just work?

 

[Badlucktroll]

Will i be able to play the iOS game My Horse Prince on an ARM Mac?

 

[LordOfChaos]

V curious. Metal Development Tools are now out for Windows. It's a bummer losing x86 boot camp for gaming, but I hope these are signs Apple is going to be pushing for native titles. It's kind of a niche community, and Apple doesn't seem to care much about AAA gaming, but I hope they do see that losing x86 Windows will be a loss for many and are trying to make up for that.

Metal Overview - Apple Developer

Metal powers hardware-accelerated graphics on Apple platforms by providing a low-overhead API, rich shading language, tight integration between graphics and compute, and an unparalleled suite of GPU profiling and debugging tools.

developer.apple.com

It looks like the A12Z won’t even be in any mac for end user:

The Intel DTK was a Pentium 4, the first shipping Intel macs were Core Duo, so things really flew as developers had targetted a lower performance base.

Expecting the same kind of thing here. On 5nm, and based on A14, with a rumored 8+4 cores, the very baseline ARM mac will fly well above the A12Z DTK. "The dev kit is fast without us trying...And believe me, we'll be trying" - Craig, paraphrasing.