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[Punished Miku]

Oh I agree, I just hate the phrase "To end suffering, end desire" its a bullshit phrase. Surviving is not the same as "ending suffering" as the OP stated. There will never be an end to suffering, just moments of reprieve from it in the roller coaster of life.

I'm not a buddhist, but I think most major religions were developed in times of extreme hardship, disease, and early death. I don't think it's about pretending that bad things can't happen and sticking your head in the sand.

Maybe the translations are poor, but they're basically talking about "mental suffering," in the form of unorganized thoughts that govern your life. The basics of meditation are more about promoting self-control over your thoughts and thought patterns. When taken to the extreme like a buddhist monk might do, they do take it more literally and try to actually rid themselves of most possessions as well, but that's more of an extreme expression of it.

The average person should probably read the phrase "to end suffering, end desire" in terms of mental health, and self-control in the present. It's not talking about cancer not happening. It means if you have a terminal disease you can choose to structure your thoughts as 1) acceptance of the diagnosis, 2) desperate uncontrollable desire to live - leading to extreme fear of the terminal disease, leading to you needlessly suffering from anxiety and desperation until your death. The insight they're trying to convey is that sometimes when someone wants something, it also carries with it a negative unintended consequence.

 

[Pagusas]

I'm not a buddhist, but I think most major religions were developed in times of extreme hardship, disease, and early death. I don't think it's about pretending that bad things can't happen and sticking your head in the sand.

Maybe the translations are poor, but they're basically talking about "mental suffering," in the form of unorganized thoughts that govern your life. The basics of meditation are more about promoting self-control over your thoughts and thought patterns. When taken to the extreme like a buddhist monk might do, they do take it more literally and try to actually rid themselves of most possessions as well, but that's more of an extreme expression of it.

The average person should probably read the phrase "to end suffering, end desire" in terms of mental health, and self-control in the present. It's not talking about cancer not happening. It means if you have a terminal disease you can choose to structure your thoughts as 1) acceptance of the diagnosis, 2) desperate uncontrollable desire to live - leading to extreme fear of the terminal disease, leading to you needlessly suffering from anxiety and desperation until your death. The insight they're trying to convey is that sometimes when someone wants something, it also carries with it a negative unintended consequence.

from purely the mental stand point, I agree with that. I've just seen too many people go through religious excursions and turn their life upside down to follow these dogmatic teachings only to find they are just as much if not more miserable then they were in their life before eventually. People are always looking for that ultimate solution in life, that thing that will make all the bad go away and good days stay forever, you can always see their souls break when they eventually realize mortal life as we know it now is just not built that way. Here's hoping an after life of some sort can fix that.

 

[teezzy]

whether you desire not to have it or not, cancer is still going to make you its bitch and make you suffer.

FTP

 

[jshackles]

The older I get the more minimalist I want to get. Though thats to me traveling/moving around a lot so after some time, you get tired of packing up the same shit over and over and realise how much stress free you would be if you never had those things. Unfortunately I think its human nature to wish for more, not materialistic but success as well and its a two edged sword.

This has been my experience as well. 10 years ago, my wife and I sold almost everything we owned and moved 2,000 miles away with just the stuff we could fit in our van. At the time we weren't looking to be minimalists or anything, just that all the stuff we owned would be too expensive to move that far in a UHaul. Well, as soon as we arrived we started accumulating stuff again, as people tend to do. But now last year we moved for the 5th time since moving here, so averaging about 2 years in each house or apartment. Every time we moved, we both thought "why do we need all this crap?" and would think back to when we moved here with just a vanload of stuff that was mostly video games. Last year I sold a huge chunk of my physical video game collection which was literally an entire room's worth of stuff. I still have a lot more to go on that front, but the majority of the "bulk" is gone.

We have been cleaning things out, throwing old things away, donating to Goodwill, etc. for the past year - and we both feel like we still just have way too much stuff. My mindset has really shifted a lot in the last year - with the pandemic happening and people I've known and worked closely with dying. My nature has fundamentally shifted from "the more I have, the more I'm successful" to "the less I have, the happier I am". Also, having fewer objects or items doesn't have a 1:1 correlation with having less utility. For example, remember before smart phones when people might have a physical calendar, a physical calculator, a physical address book, and a physical diary? That one thing (a good smart phone) can replace all those physical items and more. One Kindle can replace thousands of physical books.

So my new goal is to have the most utility in my life from the least amount of things. The few things I decide to keep, I want quality items so that I can put effort into maintaining them so that they'll last as long as possible. So like OP says, I appreciate what I have a lot more now. The thought of buying things now that I know are just going to sit on a shelf or only get used a few times creates a physically ill sensation within me.

 

[StormCell]

I have a roof over my head
A job that is ok, and gives me a slight disposable income, or enough where I'm never in debt
I have beautiful amazing hair
A wife thats into the same shit as me, and hates love Island and shit like that
A dog that is awesome
Close family


Not much to complain about, my biggest issue is boredom most of the time

As I read this, I couldn't help but imagine you look just like your profile pic.

 

[INC]

As I read this, I couldn't help but imagine you look just like your profile pic.

I could do small locks, my hair grows out tho, not down

 

[IDKFA]

Surely pain, sorrow and other negative states are unavoidable. And understanding that can help free you from their impact as you let go of that resistance to whatever *is*.

Yes, but there needs to be a balance, otherwise you'll end up as a empty husk of a human being.

In regards to avoiding desire, I agree we should avoid constantly settings unrealistic expectations for ourselves, and trying to keep up with the Joneses by buying useless materialistic goods. Avoiding this kind of desire will lead to less stress and a overall better quality of mental health.

However, taking this to the extreme would equally have a negative impact, which leads us back to philosophical pessimism. I believe the French philosopher, Rene Descartes, once said that he believed life is better if you remove the emotional reactions to negative events. This reminds me of Xenophon, who upon learning that his son had been killed in battle, calmly replied "I knew that he was mortal".

For me, becoming an emotional husk and trying to avoid natural, emotional reactions is just as unhealthy as constantly worrying about negative life events, or outright banishing desire from one's life.

 

[synchronicity]

Yes, but there needs to be a balance, otherwise you'll end up as a empty husk of a human being.

In regards to avoiding desire, I agree we should avoid constantly settings unrealistic expectations for ourselves, and trying to keep up with the Joneses by buying useless materialistic goods. Avoiding this kind of desire will lead to less stress and a overall better quality of mental health.

However, taking this to the extreme would equally have a negative impact, which leads us back to philosophical pessimism. I believe the French philosopher, Rene Descartes, once said that he believed life is better if you remove the emotional reactions to negative events. This reminds me of Xenophon, who upon learning that his son had been killed in battle, calmly replied "I knew that he was mortal".

For me, becoming an emotional husk and trying to avoid natural, emotional reactions is just as unhealthy as constantly worrying about negative life events, or outright banishing desire from one's life.

I'm not suggesting "turning off" emotion via detachment, fwiw. That word can carry a connotation of being devoid of feeling, but that's not what I'm talking about. Emotion is a natural part of life, of experience. And, like all other things, should be accepted and experienced in full, as it is. The detachment/freedom I'm referring to is a letting go of the ever-present (in most of us) pushing/pulling - the internal struggle and discord of wanting things to be different than they *are*.That's where suffering arises, in the rejection of the moment.

If we lose a loved one, lose our source of income, acquire a devastating illness, etc - of course there will be associated emotion...naturally. Just as positive experiences bring their own emotions on the opposite polarity. Rejecting them rather than allowing them to be - like rejecting anything else that arises - will bring about suffering.

 

[IDKFA]

I'm not suggesting "turning off" emotion via detachment, fwiw. That word can carry a connotation of being devoid of feeling, but that's not what I'm talking about. Emotion is a natural part of life, of experience. And, like all other things, should be accepted and experienced in full, as it is. The detachment/freedom I'm referring to is a letting go of the ever-present (in most of us) pushing/pulling - the internal struggle and discord of wanting things to be different than they *are*.That's where suffering arises, in the rejection of the moment.

If we lose a loved one, lose our source of income, acquire a devastating illness, etc - of course there will be associated emotion...naturally. Just as positive experiences bring their own emotions on the opposite polarity. Rejecting them rather than allowing them to be - like rejecting anything else that arises - will bring about suffering.

Then we're in agreement! Absolutely agree with you.

 

[StormCell]

There is a lot to be gained through simple contentment with what you have. This has been a sort of foundation or cornerstone to how I try to pattern my daily life. There are just loads of things a person can be discontent with ranging from job to mode of transportation all the way across to who your lover is or lovers are, which is to say that there is always a better job, more pay, nicer car, more vehicles, hotter lover, wilder affairs, and whatever else. For me, I set a goal or set my dream to one day winning the biggest Bass Fishing championship in existence, which as of today is the Bassmaster Classic. This is not an easily accomplished thing, The sport eats a ton of money. It is definitely a game rigged full of microtransactions, and if you aren't transacting you're probably falling behind. We're all whales in this sport. But I love to fish and I love every moment of competition. For me, this is the desire and thing that I pursue daily that spills into the rest of my life. I have both monetary sponsors and requisite good-paying job that I have to balance.

The hardest thing of all is balancing my time. My wife and family want a priority chunk of that. Next comes my job, which wants roughly 40 hours per week of that. Whatever is left, sadly, is what I can invest into fishing. If I let this desire overrule my contentment, of which I have much to appreciate already, I would be totally miserable. Patience and appreciation of what I have keep me balanced and overall happy. I've got a lot of things checked off on the list of what most men dream about having. I could literally let one desire ruin it all.