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[TheAwesomePossum]

why didn't I think to ask this?

I'm no scummier than the scum in-between your teeth.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Morning, gang!!

Lots of posts, I see! Yaaaay

Havent caught up, but skimmed through and I am so so so sorry Razmos, if I seemed like I wanted to prod activity out of you ;___; I was just, I thought it may had some merits to hear from the voices that I hardly hear because yesterday's situation was a clusterfuck that my mind was struggling to cope with...

Really, it was just a ping. Like I was quite pleased to hear from QB even if it just to indicate that he will come back with more thoughtful response at a later time.

Cuz I just think.... I donno .... we're really swinging into D2 and despite Seath and ER stuff yesterday.... I feel like we have yet to yield solid leads for our D2 lynch candidate? Is it just me? x____x

And I feel sometimes I have thought about a thing over and over and over and over again and then I lose perspective.... then it's usually nice to hear the point of view from someone totally different :>

But, yesh, apologies. I didin't mean to push that hard ;____;




Anyway! Hope things will smooth over for you Razmos and thank you for participating so far :>




SO. I will return with a proper reply once I caught up, but I would really like us to start to get some good bearing on our lynch candidate for D2 if possible

Also, WELCOME POSSUM~ \o/

 

[squidyj]

Morning, gang!!

Lots of posts, I see! Yaaaay

Havent caught up, but skimmed through and I am so so so sorry Razmos, if I seemed like I wanted to prod activity out of you ;___; I was just, I thought it may had some merits to hear from the voices that I hardly hear because yesterday's situation was a clusterfuck that my mind was struggling to cope with...

Really, it was just a ping. Like I was quite pleased to hear from QB even if it just to indicate that he will come back with more thoughtful response at a later time.

Cuz I just think.... I donno .... we're really swinging into D2 and despite Seath and ER stuff yesterday.... I feel like we have yet to yield solid leads for our D2 lynch candidate? Is it just me? x____x

And I feel sometimes I have thought about a thing over and over and over and over again and then I lose perspective.... then it's usually nice to hear the point of view from someone totally different :>

But, yesh, apologies. I didin't mean to push that hard ;____;




Anyway! Hope things will smooth over for you Razmos and thank you for participating so far :>




SO. I will return with a proper reply once I caught up, but I would really like us to start to get some good bearing on our lynch candidate for D2 if possible

Also, WELCOME POSSUM~ \o/

if you feel like you're losing perspective you can try starting over from the beginning, I find that it usually helps me to feel really confident about making a huge mistake.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

if you feel like you're losing perspective you can try starting over from the beginning, I find that it usually helps me to feel really confident about making a huge mistake.

Yeah. I tried that ... And it made me simultaneously more convinced and more confused of some people's potential alignments... :x

But. Points taken! I will try to refrain from prodding.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

 

[squidyj]

Yeah. I tried that ... And it made me simultaneously more convinced and more confused of some people's potential alignments... :x

But. Points taken! I will try to refrain from prodding.

i wasn't making any points. I was just trying to be helpful

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

i wasn't making any points. I was just trying to be helpful

but you aaaarrrrrrrreeeee <3 you are helpful!!! ^____^ VERY!

i love it when my posts are challenged or criticized.... idk. i think it's the only way i can sort of catch a more complete picture of things. for example, i was theorizing HARD on my own about Ezekel's claim

these were the thingies that went through my head:

• as it unfolded, ezekel claims he cant be killed at night unless by the honeypot. the first thought that popped in my head was: "............ hey, wouldn't that be a convenient cover for scum? cuz they do not die at nights!!! HO HO HO EZEKEL! YOU HADE MADE YOUR MATCH!"
  
• then i saw darryl's exchange with roytheone and palmer, and they were like, timing of his response does not denote that it was feasible for him to put on this story, 35 minutes after the day started. To which palmer replied, that's operating on the assumption that the mafia only got to know the results of the night's action when the day started. .... but what if they got their PMs earlier???
  
• ...

then my brain was like halp



oh, also palmer made a really good point on that mafia would like to have one member at every mission chat and that ER's roleclaim would have made a perfect story to get him into the mission every night.

But anyway, ER had volunteered fast and he didn't really need other people's help to get into the mission roll. This indicates, to me, that he was consistent with his thought processes and that he was genuine. In his mind, it was important to safeguard his spot in there, for 1) keeping himself alive just in case they send the honeypot in N2, and 2) to maximise the town's benefit for information in terms of sniffing out the honeypot if he does get killed.


So. All in all. I'm just going round and round in circles in my head. But reading you guys' post and soundboard in the thread.... really help. REALLY.




tl;dr ER is likely legit? and.... just ignore ynnny as she confuses herself further.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Okay. I've caught up.

Thingies:
1. I'm verily not opposed to sending only two players to mission for N2. Will unvolunteer if required.
2. cabbeh and arkos are likely vanilla townies.
3. It was coincidental so bizarre like whoa when Ezekel claimed Archer role (with vulnerability only against the HoneyPot role) then reminded us that there was someone with a 'honeypot'-themed avatar (#1241)... and not long after, said avatar person revealed that he was indeed the 'honeypot'? My mind is pretty curly on the additional knowledge that I was the one that was using that avatar previously. (the fact that a lot of y'all refers to the honeypot as a she did not pass me by, either!)

(its not me! im too bitter to be honey-pot!) (i swear~)

For now I will leave the whole Archer / HoneyPot / ER / Seath / roleclaiming clusterfuck to the side. It hurts my brain.

4. My vote for the time being:

Vote: Mike_Hawk689

Reason:

Mike and Septimus are probably the two participants who has never offered reads on the game, even when squidy listed some names and he asked us to give him some perspectives on them. Everyone else had posted their reads of the other participants at different points of the game ... even newjoiner Darryl.

I got on Septimus case early on because I think he has been unresponsive when engaged, but I am pretty resigned on him for the time being. For now, I want to see if Mike will give me more than Septimus did.

 

[Arkos]

YnnnY's posting style could make it easy for her to slip under the radar. Do we have any previous mafia games to go off of?

 

[QuantumBro]

Here are my thoughts on today:

Concerning Visualante2: Yeah I fucked up there with my accusation, but I honestly didn’t think anything would come of it until it was too late. With that said, I don’t think I can blame squidy for leading the charge against him since it would be kinda hypocritical, so I’m not going to accuse him or Darryl of being KGB without further evidence.
With that said Unvote: Darryl

Concerning EzekelRAGE: Well that was a pretty big role claim. After reading through his posts, I think he’s telling the truth, since it doesn’t contradict any of the information we know and perfectly explains how there were no deaths the night before. However, I don’t think the role claim was the smartest idea for reasons I’ll get to later.
One point Ezekel brought up that I thought was good, was pointing out the people who were thinking that his role makes the town overpowered. I went back to the Star Wars game because I remembered hearing the same complaints after I role claimed as the second armorer. I looked at all the people who complained, and in fact one of them was a Hutt. I’m not saying it’s the case here, but it’s an interesting thing to note. The complainers were…
El Topo
roytheone
Burbeting

Concerning Seath: I don’t know what to make of his actions, but I feel pretty confident saying he’s not KGB. I’m thinking some sort of neutral role. Someone should definitely keep an eye on him though.

Concerning Honeypot: Assuming that Ezekel isn’t lying about his role (which I believe), then we know the power of one of the KGB agents. Now, we know that Ezekel was targeted by the KGB, but not by Honeypot, so I’m thinking there are a few possibilities…

1. KGB has a really good reason not to kill with Honeypot. Someone brought up that there could be a penalty for Honeypot, which would explain this.

2. Honeypot wasn’t able to target Ezekel, because they were on a mission. This is what I’m thinking happened. Remember that Ezekel said that his plan was to always volunteer to go on the missions, which makes sense since you’ll have the most protection and if you do end up dying, people will have three targets to choose from. With all that in mind, it also makes sense for Honeypot to want to go on every mission. The mission chat gives them a pretty good opportunity to figure out who Archer is, and if they’re really good, get Archer to role-claim. Mafia is still able to kill every night and able to let the Honeypot player kill if they figure it out.

So yeah, I’m convinced that Honeypot is among the four members who went on the mission.
Again, here are the people who went on the mission:
Mazre
Palmer_v1
Arkos
Darryl
Of those, Mazre and Palmer are the only ones who volunteered again today, so I wouldn’t suspect either Arkos or Darryl for the role of Honeypot.

However, what if Honeypot messed up and wasn’t able to volunteer in time? Let’s look at the backup list…
Haly
Squidyj
El Topo
YesNOnoNOYes
Out of those four, there are two who also volunteered today; El Topo and YesNOnoNOYes.

So, I think the four most likely people to be Honeypot are…
Mazre
Palmer_v1
El Topo
YesNOnoNOYes

I have a good idea who Honeypot is out of those four; but before I say who, I want some other people to discuss the theory and choose who first, especially after yesterday.

Concerning the game: I’m think about asking for a replacement, since I don’t know if I can keep up with everyone else in posting, with work and all. I’m going to play out the rest of this day and see how I feel about it, but I thought I would give everyone a heads up first.

With all that said, I’ll be back tomorrow.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

YnnnY's posting style could make it easy for her to slip under the radar. Do we have any previous mafia games to go off of?

>___<

I spectacularly failed as a townie in SW... I was dazzled by Palmer's aura and I never ever suspected him as a baddie~

... Uh link is at the first page of the mafia recruitment thread, I think.

 

[Darryl]

Vote: Zubz

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

QB! Yay, long post OF QUALITY CONTENTS <3

On your first point that the complainers in SW may give us some indication on how mafia behaves in this game........ I think it's a stretch. But the three names that came up are actually interesting. I will keep my eye on these three.

On your second point about the HoneyPot. I think some other players have covered this theory with regards to HoneyPot's likelihood being in a mission or wanting to get on a mission. I believe you have valid points but if I'm not mistaken, it is not quite a thorough approach to whittle down the honeypot-suspect-pool into such a lil pool. But, I do admit that the logic path to your deductions follows.

I'm still not quite sure myself, but as my posts above yours stated:

As for me: I totes don't mind unvolunteering if it will raise the likelihood that our Sterling is kept safe :>



On your availability: RL will always have to come first! But in my opinion, you don't have to be a high-activity poster if that's not your style. Quality > quantity ! But if you think the game is overwhelming, then I understand. I hope you will continue to play though ! SW graduates gotta stick together

Spoiler

against Palmer

.... In any case, keep us posted on this front, but whatever comes, thanks for playing with us so far

 

[squidyj]

If mafia had a cross-kill role, someone who targeted outside of their normal pool (ie they can only target mission people if they aren't on the mission) then that's who you'd want on the mission. Nobody can be sure such a role exists so if people are scum reading you you can point to the fact that you were on the mission and couldn't have sent the kill (would work better in the late game). IF such a role exists then that is who you would get to send the kill if you didn't know who archer was.

 

[squidyj]

As for septimus.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTp27BJwxx8

We had so many people making mistakes yesterday earlier on in the game that by the time Septimus came around with his whoppers we had sort of established the idea that we didn't think mafia wouldn't know how the rules worked, they had an extra couple days and some number of people in a chat room to figure this shit out so they wouldn't make those kinds of mistakes. Then, later on septimus keeps making mistake after mistake and I think it might be because he thought it would be read as town, because during the day it had previously been read as sort of town.

Vote: Septimus Prime

 

[Palmer_v1]

Alright, my El Topo read, from Day 1:

Now that the game has officially begun, I think it would be helpful if we discussed the importance of missions. I assume that this is not a pointless mechanic that fits with the theme, but that there are roles that make us of missions?

That said, I would love to go on a mission, if only because that basically means that you won't get killed.

Volunteer

Early volunteer but not quite fast enough. Hints at mission related powers.

Yeah, but there's gotta be more to it than that. I assume there are roles that require going on missions to win and/or for some ability? I also wouldn't be completely surprised if there were ways to kill someone on a mission (without being on the mission itself), if only to make things more complicated for us.

More possible hints about a role.

You guys and your fancy words, lemme sum it up:
You no talk, you no use, we lynch you.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but he has yet to say anything of value himself at this point.

I honestly think it's a dick move to kill off someone who was lynched day one.

I concur, for fun's sake, that it's kinda fucked up to Day 1/Night 1 kill certain players.

I'm a veteran, I'm well-prepared, I'm on no suspect list yet, I'm basically dead. I don't wanna die.

Fair enough but he still hasn't posted anything concrete.

I would ask that you ignore all posts of mine before this game begun, as they were essentially just goofing around. Well, except for the universal advice about not going full Blarg, that one was dead serious.

Fluff post, but I don't judge people based on just these.

All this talk is going to lead us nowhere if there are no stakes, else it's all fluff.



Looking back at previous Mafia games, there are certain indications and patterns that may allow us to uncover the enemy.

In addition I have noticed that putting pressure on players is helpful, as is rapidly changing the situation of the game, all of which requires active participation of players. Allow me to demonstrate by abandoning reason and following my gut.

VOTE:roytheone

Doing something finally.

ANNOY: cooljeans

What kind of sick person would do something like that deliberately?

Fluff

Sorry for making that stupid joke with the quote tags.

More fluff.

Just because no one died doesn't mean no one tried to kill someone. There are roles with protection, there are roles that can protect others and there are roles that can block players. This is also assuming that Mafia needs to kill someone during the night - did they *have* to kill someone during the night in previous rounds?

If someone dies on a mission, it is reasonable to assume that one of the other participants is the killer, but given how things are set up, I wouldn't be shocked if there are loopholes.

Contributing.

Deliberately making false excuses for not posting (much or even at all) as some means of strategy is bullshit and not fair to other players. I'm confident none of us will do that.

Lying is part of the game. That's why we shouldn't be using anything outside the actual thread to judge anyone. Feels like this is a smokescreen for his own potential shenanigans.

Wow. That is a dick move. Can't believe he hasn't been lynched yet.



I don't know. To be completely honest, I don't even really care. If someone is inactive, just lynch or replace him. This game thrives on player participation.

Agree.

My conviction that roy is mafia is stronger than ever, although I must admit I haven't read any of his posts since my accusation. Unless he's presented convincing evidence to the contrary they wouldn't change much anyway.

I'll follow my gut feeling this game.

Why wouldn't you read all of his posts first?

Exactly. He can't even present evidence that he is innocent. I rest my case.

Joking aside, we will have no evidence whatsoever on the first day that someone is town or mafia, no matter how hard one tries to interpret the behavior or posts of other players. What you can do however is continuously challenge people, so that days later one can go back and analyze the behavior/posts.

There is always the option of revealing your role, but that is a very dangerous thing to do. In addition there is little way to tell (at this point) whether a role is true or not.

Contribution.

Can we skip all the foreplay and get to the lynching?

Meh.

Eh, as long as it's not me I don't really care who we lynch. First day, someone's gotta take one for the team.

Meh again.

Can we lnych Crab?

We're trained agents and you're just a crab posing as a high school student. I'm not afOUCH he pinched me with his claws.

Not for long.

Seath falsely abuses Mallory as a proxy and has basically the same avatar as YNnNY. I'm not saying that is conclusive evidence that we should lynch him, but it is conclusive evidence that we should lynch him.

Joking aside, anyone have a good idea on who is a suspect/who we should lynch?

All fluff.

I'm slowly thinking we should just lynch an inactive player. Whether they're mafia or not, it harms the game and makes it less fun if some don't participate (for whatever reasons).

Agree, but he does say this at a point where Tiger and Mazre are the clear majorities. Could be starting to get attention away from one of them. His vote at this point is on Roy.

We lynch during the day. Once the ritual sacrifice is over the night begins.

Since you asked about it, let me show you what others think about me.

Fluff

Anyone that doesn't vote is immediately suspect to me. That's the kind of "Not stepping on anyone's toes" kind of move I don't like.

Agree

Three hours left, right? I will change my vote in time.

Fluff

Just slightly injured/cut my finger. Won't type much. New vote. Not convinced of anyone, we have no valid information. That said, cool didn't post much and hasn't voted, I can't let that slide.

UNVOTE:roytheone
VOTE:cooljeanius

Contributing, though it turns out Cool had voted for someone.

Great. Someone tell me who to vote for. Squid? You tell me who to vote for.

This was the post that triggered most of my suspicions. It's late in the day and he knows NOT voting is a bad thing, so he tries to absolve himself of responsibility by letting someone else pick a target.

I wanna lynch someone. Ain't happening with you.

Spoiler

Yet. More days will come.

Anyway, to avoid any late surprise, I also change my vote to Tiger. Sorry buddy, someone always has to die.

UNVOTE:cooljeanius
VOTE:GreatLord Tiger

Jumps on a bandwagon, at a point where Visualante is also starting to get jumped.

Krieger, is that anthropomorphic bear one of your creations?

I think I need to make a PSA in the Cthulhu thread about how to behave in case a Blarg appears.

Fluff.

You killed Visualante2. I told you we should lynch roytheone, but of course you wouldn't listen and instead read way too much into every single thing. What do you think he's feeling now, coming into this thread to find out that he's dead? Good job, guys. You'll see in hindsight that I was right from the very beginning.

That'll do Visualante2. That'll do.

He was fine with railroading Tiger, but we're all assholes for doing the exact same thing to visualante. Such a bullshit post. He also claims we all fucked up by not voting Roy with him, but he only claimed "gut feelings" the two times he even MENTIONS roy. Never actually presented any evidence.

Altogether, it just feels like somone trying to post enough to escape attention without really doing anything particularly useful, and while casting aspersions at everyone he can.

I can't remember if my vote is still on him, so...

Vote: El Topo

 

[Zubz]

this post is kind of suspicious, I mentioned Palmer once and then clarified what I was talking about for Hobohodo. Then I suggested you were mafia and didn't really mention septimus until now.

Now you want to push the narrative that I've been repeatedly claiming that you palmer and septimus are all mafia together.

Yes. Because you have. And you threw Vis in yesterday until we killed him. And I find it suspicious that you keep wanting to target the 3 of us. You've referred to them as "the company keep." Again, I will make it pointedly clear: Outside of explaining everything I've done to you and Akros, in detail, and a few pleasantries to new players/Star Wars vets, I haven't kept any "company." I have no idea where this comes from; I still want to know how you gathered this "information," if it's even based in anything outside of you making up reasons to suspect us. It just feels like you're swarming us.

Your arguments against my reads as well have been.... bizarre, you criticized them for being made up flavour (whatever that means) when other people have been generally convinced.

At the same time your suspicion of me didn't stop you from helping me advance my agenda with respect to VisualAnte

People were convinced on your bandwagon against Vis, which I admitted was sound. I'm talking about stuff like the aforementioned "company he keeps" thing. Or when you "put [Haly] at the top of [your] scum list" simply because he didn't understand the power of the Mission mechanic. Plus, I know we've beaten the "soaked" horse to death, but unless there's some flavor text that only you were privy to, that was totally a made-up argument you tried to pass. Other than Darryl and maybe Akros, no one else seems to be backing you up. And I'm not going to lie, I'm starting to get suspicious of Darryl. Especially since you went so far out of your way to save his alter ego, Darol, yesterday.

I already explained this to Akros and Haly, so I don't know what you think you'll get this time around. But although yes, my vote led to Vis' destruction, I both A.) didn't want to cause a tie, and B.) wanted to vote for the player I was more suspicious of. I was only somewhat suspicious of Vis, but I was definitely suspicious of you, both then and now. I wanted to make a vote I felt comfortable with. At that point, it could've broken the tie in favor of Vis, Tiger, Darryl, Darrylene, or whatever. I just made the vote I felt was safe. Not to sound rude, but explaining this again just sounds monotonous.

You never answered the actual question, either: Why do you think Septimus is "weak," and why do you think we're in cahoots about anything despite not interacting up until this point.

Fake Edit: And your new post doesn't explain anything other than "Septimus thought the Mafia wouldn't make mistakes and then he did lol." What mistake are you even going on about?

A very well thought-out post.

I can agree with you for the most part. Even if the Honeypot has a penalty of some sort, though, I don't see it being catastrophic for the KGB. Assume Ezekal's telling the truth, (s)he already knows where to shoot tonight, and we don't know which player the Honeypot is to kill him/her during the day. I do agree that one of those 4 has a good chance of being the Honeypot, though. I'm not really suspicious of any of them at the moment, but you make a good point; the Honeypot would be raring to follow Archer onto a mission.

Vote: Zubz

What's your reason for voting for me, exactly? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'd like to know why I'm being accused first, rather than just getting the tip.

 

[squidyj]

Yes. Because you have. And you threw Vis in yesterday until we killed him. And I find it suspicious that you keep wanting to target the 3 of us. You've referred to them as "the company keep." Again, I will make it pointedly clear: Outside of explaining everything I've done to you and Akros, in detail, and a few pleasantries to new players/Star Wars vets, I haven't kept any "company." I have no idea where this comes from; I still want to know how you gathered this "information," if it's even based in anything outside of you making up reasons to suspect us. It just feels like you're swarming us.



People were convinced on your bandwagon against Vis, which I admitted was sound. I'm talking about stuff like the aforementioned "company he keeps" thing. Or when you "put [Haly] at the top of [your] scum list" simply because he didn't understand the power of the Mission mechanic. Plus, I know we've beaten the "soaked" horse to death, but unless there's some flavor text that only you were privy to, that was totally a made-up argument you tried to pass. Other than Darryl and maybe Akros, no one else seems to be backing you up. And I'm not going to lie, I'm starting to get suspicious of Darryl. Especially since you went so far out of your way to save his alter ego, Darol, yesterday.

I already explained this to Akros and Haly, so I don't know what you think you'll get this time around. But although yes, my vote led to Vis' destruction, I both A.) didn't want to cause a tie, and B.) wanted to vote for the player I was more suspicious of. I was only somewhat suspicious of Vis, but I was definitely suspicious of you, both then and now. I wanted to make a vote I felt comfortable with. At that point, it could've broken the tie in favor of Vis, Tiger, Darryl, Darrylene, or whatever. I just made the vote I felt was safe. Not to sound rude, but explaining this again just sounds monotonous.

You never answered the actual question, either: Why do you think Septimus is "weak," and why do you think we're in cahoots about anything despite not interacting up until this point.

Fake Edit: And your new post doesn't explain anything other than "Septimus thought the Mafia wouldn't make mistakes and then he did lol." What mistake are you even going on about?



I can agree with you for the most part. Even if the Honeypot has a penalty of some sort, though, I don't see it being catastrophic for the KGB. Assume Ezekal's telling the truth, (s)he already knows where to shoot tonight, and we don't know which player the Honeypot is to kill him/her during the day. I do agree that one of those 4 has a good chance of being the Honeypot, though. I'm not really suspicious of any of them at the moment, but you make a good point; the Honeypot would be raring to follow Archer onto a mission.



What's your reason for voting for me, exactly? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'd like to know why I'm being accused first, rather than just getting the tip.

you realize when I was doing that I was talking to palmer, right? I wasn't saying he was scum. I was saying look at what's going on around you.

 

[Darryl]

I already posted why I thought you were suspicious. I do also find Septimus suspicious, so when I get time to sit down I'm more inclined to waste it trying to explain that one rather than drill over how useless you are.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Day 2 El Top read now! Hint: It doesn't improve my opinion.

Volunteer

No real opinion about this, but it does mean he's one of the few who did try to get onto both missions so far. Yes, I'm aware that list includes me.

I'm not saying we're better than the other games, but we've only lost one player so far.

Fluff

I just want to survive. I'm willing to step down though if someone has a convincing reason.

Contribution, but not much.

It would be nice if you could do that within the next few hours, so I can still defend myself and don't have to read through dozens of accusations when I come back to this thread tomorrow.

Sorry it's taken so long.

Ah, okay. Fair enough.

I don't agree with your analysis. That said, even if I followed your logic, you forgot the third option: Squidyj could very well be neutral.



I'm not going to vote for anyone right now, because I have not thought about the past days, nor has anyone given me convincing reason to vote for anyone.

If anything, I find it weird no one has addressed the real elephant in the room, namely that no one died, even though we lost our doctor.

So remember his last post from yesterday? Where we were all fools for not voting Roytheone? Totally seems to have forgotten it. He also specifically said that he doesn't like people who don't have a vote in play, so where is his?

Second doctor seems like overkill, unless mafia have some nasty roles. Blocker seems most reasonable, since I don't see a reason mafia wouldn't kill (unless they're all on the mission, which seems unlikely), but it would be best (since as you say he might've uncovered a mafia player) to not reveal that at this point.

Contributing.

That sounds pretty damn cool. I guess it's possible. Maybe we have a switcher, who swapped a target with the killer?

That's a good point. That role claim means that town could've won the very first day. Even if we assume that Honeypot has additional safety, such as immunity during the night, that seems incredibly unbalanced in favour of town.

I wrote "virtually unkillable", not "literally unkillable". The role seems pretty damn powerful and it's not hard to think of scenarios or strategies where this role would lead to almost surefire victory.

I'm not even saying he is a liar, he could also be a town player trying to help us with a fake role claim, I'm willing to let others convince me, but I think it's legitimate to have strong doubts, in particular given the other problems I have with his claim, e.g. that this would be a risky move by mafia as it gives us at least a (1/3) chance to get one of them.

No real comments on that set of posts. They're all sort of contributing, but not really helping us find Mafia. A lot of us were doing the same thing.

I made up about half a dozen of cover roles before the role PMs went out. It's really not that hard to come up with fake roles. That said, if his role claim is really fake, there is surely a real Sterling Archer who (if absolutely necessary) could prove him wrong, though no one should role reveal at this point, so it's a risky move.

If anything though, if he is saying the truth, at least one of the other three mission members is mafia.

I agree. Problem is I think the problem is either El Topo or Mazre.

I am an idiot and thought he was on a mission.

Well, Palmer pointing out my inability to read means that no mission member is necessarily suspicious. Makes his role claim a lot more reasonable.

Fluff

If Honeypot didn't attempt the kill, even though there seems to be no reason for mafia not to send only her out, does that mean Honeypot was on a mission and they simply thought they could use someone else, because the chance of hitting Archer are pretty low and killing someone on a mission is a bad idea?

Contribution.

The more I think about it, the more I tend to convince myself that Ezzi is telling the truth.

Taking a stance on something is progress.

First come first serve. Maybe they simply wanted to have a player on the mission and opting out seemed suspicious.

Either that or several of them applied and they thought that opting out (without good reason) would be dangerous.

Being on a mission means they're somewhat safe from whatever cop/detector role there is though.

More of the semi-idle game speculation we were all doing.

I think I have some ideas on who is suspicious. I'll try to come up with decent explanations tomorrow.

Look forward to seeing what he comes up with. I do wonder if this is being done under duress since I've been after him today.

I don't really have an awful lot of time to post today, cabbeh. I have suspicions towards several players, not based currently on a single post/statement, but on the way they behave and interact with others, as well as their general play style.

That said - I haven't read what was posted while I was gone, sorry - shouldn't we also discuss the former and the new mission members? We have two new members (me and Ezzi), as well as two old members (Mazre and Palmer). Assuming mafia always want someone on the mission, if Ezzi is not mafia, that leaves Mazre and Palmer, both players that were incredibly quick to volunteer and I'm not sure if they have given much justification.

Leaves out himself, who tried to get on the first mission. Maybe Mafia was too slow the first time around?

Wait, what the fuck happened tonight? Jeez, I really have to catch up, don't I?

fluff

Just saw Seath's claim. I honestly don't get why people are voting for him. If he's neutral and has no harmful powers, there is no reason whatsoever to lynch him.

Again, mafia players, even the active ones, tend to avoid attention.

There was plenty of reason to lynch a neutral in this case.

Palmer, ever going to explain why you distrust me? Didn't you say similar stuff on the first day? Did you vote for me or ever elaborate?

Contribution in that he wants a chance to defend himself, which is perfectly reasonable.

So...why is no one calling out Palmer and Mazre for being super quick to volunteer (again)? Why is there no focus on former mission members and how they might be Honeypot, given that Ezzi survived? If anything we should attempt to combine the various reasons (posts, posting patterns, voting patterns, mission member status) to come up with suspects.

That said, pretty sure Seath is at least honest about his alignment, even if I'm not convinced he is telling the truth about his abilities. I didn't trust Ezzi at first, but going over his posts and thinking about it have me believe he is honest.

This goes beyond El Topo, but all of the Honeypot being on the mission assumptions are ridiculous. Anyone not named ER could be the Honeypot.

I'm convinced of his alignment. His actual power and goal? Not so much.

No tracker is going to come out early. Every night that mafia doesn't kill gives us and our power roles more time to catch them.

I can't help but feel that discussion is stagnating once again. If we ever want to catch mafia, we have to surprise them, force our game on them and let them make mistakes.

That depends on the role. In the Star Wars game someone won and just left the game, which went on without him.

Well, how would such a role look like?

More of the idle-speculation posts. I don't count these either way.

I told you guys to lynch him. I told you all we should lynch him. Now he's starting to make Knock-Knock jokes.

Oh shit, he remembered roy, the guy he has barely mentioned today after calling all of us out yesterday.

Phew. That took some time. Went through all the posts since the night ended (before this one). Won't do that again. Will give a list later.

Look forward to the list.

A list, potentially erroneous since done by hand, of posts since the night ended. I excluded the posts of miserable sea creatures, lewd bears and our boss. Keep in mind that some people have a job or might live in a different time zone. Nonetheless I hope that information will be helpful.

Oh, it's just today's post counts. Not super useful, but it's something.

Awesome.

Fluff

Eh, could you be so kind to point me to the post please? I just counted all that stuff, don't really want to look for a post. Either way, I am convinced Seath is neutral, even if I don't know whether to believe his actual role.

Interesting. I'm convinced he is neutral though, due to a small mistake (or rather slip of tongue) in one of his posts. That said, for all we know he might be a serial killer. If we have a doctor, similar to the very first Gafia game, we might also have another Karkador.

Welcome to the game. I hope you'll live long and have fun.

I might just be reading too much into it, but I found his choice of words when he revealed himself interesting.

I checked* whether the word 'unaligned' was used in previous mafia games (Original Game + SW Game), but they used the term 'neutral'. I don't know, but I thought it was interesting.

*Sorry for the meta-game analysis.

Contributing a theory that Seath is actually Neutral based on apparently using the word unaligned.

If mafia had a cross-kill role, someone who targeted outside of their normal pool (ie they can only target mission people if they aren't on the mission) then that's who you'd want on the mission. Nobody can be sure such a role exists so if people are scum reading you you can point to the fact that you were on the mission and couldn't have sent the kill (would work better in the late game). IF such a role exists then that is who you would get to send the kill if you didn't know who archer was.

More speculation.

Anyway, like I said at the top, all this did was reinforce my belief that's Mafia.

 

[Palmer_v1]

YnnnY's posting style could make it easy for her to slip under the radar. Do we have any previous mafia games to go off of?

May have been covered, but I feel like she's been more proactive and helpful in this game compared to Star Wars.

 

[Haly]

Welcome to the game Possum, and it's too bad you had to leave Razmos.

I'm going to ignore the Seath/Ezekel stuff. I am as convinced of Ezekel's claim as I was yesterday and Seath is playing a game beyond my meagre imagination. Sorry for yelling at you, though. I was very angry there for a minute.

I find it difficult to read the volunteering. The reasoning "I just want to survive another night" is pretty much universally town, so there's nothing there to read.

If the chat was as silent as everyone said then my guess seemed to be right: It is, in practice, as useful as the gossip chats. The real purpose is to hide away Town and force KGB to expose themselves at some point by killing on the mission. Locking it up is just impractical as a long term strategy and I'm disinclined to say Mazre/Palmer/Ezekel are all KGB together. Maybe 1 at the most, but it's a long shot.

TheGoddamn was actually first to point fingers at Zubz, who's now trying to throw suspicion onto squidy. Septimus also joined in on this. Goddamn really stepped up after he was called out on his inactivity and even if he isn't posting a hundred times per day he's still contributing every time. Cabbeh's also picked up the pace and is more convincingly town now. Rapid player growth reads town more than scum.

roytheone, I think he tunnelvisions a lot but he's not particularly scummy. It was the mission in day 1 and Ezekel's power in day 2.

Burbeting and Squidy. Not much to say here. Squidy is posting less but given the mislynch he lead it's no a surprise. I know that feel. It's also nice to see Burbeting posting more and throwing the weight of his experience around.

Darryl is a jerk, don't be fooled by his civility! It's just a mask for the raging beast that hides within. (I'm giving him a blank slate, or trying to.)

Enker/Mike/Cooljeanius: Need to see a lot more these guys to form an opinion.

I agree with Arkos' reasoning that YesNo's playstyle can very easily be used to mask scummy behavior. That's not to say I think she's scum, but it's a thought that occured to me. Basically, one would contribute from time to time, and then throw up a song-and-dance the rest of the time. If someone gets suspicious, the roleplayer can play it off as silliness. Still, her contributions aren't bad so far and I'm not interested in denying her her fun as long as it's not disruptive.

QuantumBro: I was uncomfortable with his silence at first but he's coming out with stuff now so I'm mollified. For his honeypot reasoning, I'm more inclined to think it's 1, that there is some risk to her if she hits Archer.

What if the penalty was just dying along with Archer? That's a very straightforward and simple reason not to kill with her. Day 1 is just far too early to lose a mafia. It would be a variant on the Bomb role. So this wouldn't be Bulletproof so much as Limited Bomb. Remember, it's much worse for Mafia to lose one player than for Town to lose one player. Every Mafia that dies necessitates 2-3 more mislynches IIRC. If I'm right, it's still very biased against her but it can be balanced out by giving her some other abilities.

I'm still interested in cooljeanius by the way. He's only had a single post in day 2.

 

[Haly]

Oh right, I'll be winding down the posting for the rest of the game. I've taken on a new RL commitment that will sap most of my time so no more spamming.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Final post for me tonight.

First: Vote count please, Ouro.

Second: There are way too many people who haven't voted yet today. What the hell people?

Third: I would appreciate comments on my read of El Topo. I should have been in bed like 2 hours ago.

Goodnight all!

 

[Zubz]

you realize when I was doing that I was talking to palmer, right? I wasn't saying he was scum. I was saying look at what's going on around you.

Oh. Sorry 'bout that, then!

I already posted why I thought you were suspicious. I do also find Septimus suspicious, so when I get time to sit down I'm more inclined to waste it trying to explain that one rather than drill over how useless you are.

... When? I literally sifted through all of your posts. Your only post close to an explanation was this one, which I explained:

Well you voted by proxy against Visualante. Remove a vote for Great Lord puts +1 on Visual. The thing is, why didn't you just vote for Visual? That would have been +2 on Visual. Making the chance of someone else tying even lower. So was removing the tie more important than removing your ties to evicting an innocent ?

There were 10 minutes left, and I didn't want to vote for either player causing that tie. I kept a close eye on the game on the off-chance I was needed to be a tiebreaker again, but I didn't really want to vote for Vis or Tiger, and I don't think that being the tiebreaker should've been my responsibility. Again, I don't want to sound rude, but I thought that was all pretty sound.

Final post for me tonight.

First: Vote count please, Ouro.

Second: There are way too many people who haven't voted yet today. What the hell people?

Third: I would appreciate comments on my read of El Topo. I should have been in bed like 2 hours ago.

Goodnight all!

I mean, it really seems like he hasn't contributed too-too much. He's definitely said a lot despite meaning little, though, and he is one of the possible Honeypots, following QB's train of thought. But I dunno, I don't think it's enough. I was called "fluffy" until those last 30 minutes yesterday, too.

 

[Haly]

Pssst, Palmer, you attributed a squidy post to El Topo.

Go home, you're drunk.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

May have been covered, but I feel like she's been more proactive and helpful in this game compared to Star Wars.

I'm learning !

Glad to know I'm doing better, Palmer. I appreciate the feedback!

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Seath (1)
roytheone
YesNOnoNOYes
Mazre
Seath
Palmer_v1
EzekelRAGE
Haly
Darryl
cabbeh

squidyj (3)
Zubz
Septimus Prime
Seath

cooljeanius (1)
Haly
cabbeh
Haly

Darryl (1)
QuantumBro
QuantumBro

El Topo (1)
Palmer_v1
Palmer_v1

Septimus Prime (2)
cabbeh
squidyj

Zubz (1)
Darryl

Mike_Hawk689 (1)
YesNOnoNOYes

No D2 Active Vote
Arkos
Burbeting
cooljeanius
El Topo
Enker
TheGoddamn
Hobohodo
Mike_Hawk689
Razmos
roytheone (last vote was: unvote)
EzekelRAGE (last vote was: unvote)

 

[Mike_Hawk689]

Again not much to say about who I'd like to vote but I do have a couple of choices.

1. Squidyj

First of all, the voting from D1 is still lingering in my head. Vis getting voted out like that feels orchestrated. The whole day, squidyj posted many many many time, which gave a scent of a townie who's looking for the interest of the town. He was starting conversation, making people participate, he was giving life to this game (almost tied for first in posts, trailing by 2 under Palmer). To be honest, I even thought he was a townie because of the way he acted. After seeing the results on day 1 votes, I feel that he betrayed us by driving that train onto Vis. Now that Day 2 started, I'm seeing a steep drop in posts by Squidyj. Trying to lay low to let the heat disappear, after saving buddy GLT?

2. Seath

Wtf is with the mindfuck? I'm sure the mind game keeps going. Are you faking a fake role claim? Making that a legit role claim. If so, I don't see any reason why we should keep Seath in as it goes against, the Duchess. Seath explained in his 'fake' role claim that he only wins if Archer gets voted out, what if that's a ruse to make sure he stays alive to actually fulfill his endgame by killing him during the night or twilight? Yes, he could've been silent and not role claim to stay alive and kill archer at night without anyone knowing, but he already had some votes on him yesterday, so he had to be sure to stay alive to win.

3. EzekelRage

I currently believe what he says as it does make sense with the no-kill night, but I think there is more to your role that you haven't explained. What I'm saying is Sterling Archer is the main character of the show, you must have a power role that you can use during the night. Being unable to be killed during night, except by HP or maybe Conway (referring to previous point) plus a power role seems plausible for the turtle neck wearing spy.

 

[TheAwesomePossum]

Seath's fake role claim has me suspicious as hell.
VOTE: Seath

 

[Burbeting]

Okay so here's my first vote of the day:

Vote: Seath

Because of reasons I said earlier. His stunt is pretty anti-town action in my eyes, since if he is town, he shouldn't almost make us waste a complete day on him. It's a high possibility that he is at least a neutral, and town's goal is to get rid of both mafia and the neutrals.

That said, this is my first vote of the day, so it's subject to change.

 

[roytheone]

Third: I would appreciate comments on my read of El Topo. I should have been in bed like 2 hours ago.

Goodnight all!

I have had my eye on el topo for a while now, currently for two main reasons:

-his almost complete focus on voting for me day 1, without giving reasons. Sure, day one is kind of a gamble and following your gut is fine, but at least show some posts that contributed on your bad feeling about me. He never gave a single letter of explanation.

- yesterday when instead of reading the new posts, he counted them. And then he gave his read about seath while clearly having missed the fact that seath actually already withdrawn his role claim, making his read outdated and not very useful.

These kind of posts allow him to look like he is contributing, but at the same time don't say a lot or only say things that are already outdated. He is on my scum hotlist.

 

[roytheone]

Oh yeah, voting:

darryl

He is not currently my main scum suspect, but I really want to know if the whole visual situation was just a townie mistake, or a ploy of the KGB to protect Darryl. If he turns out to be kgb , we will know where to look for more.

 

[roytheone]

Woops

vote: daryll

 

[cabot]

What I said:



What you read (emphasis mine)



It's going to be awfully hard to have discussions if anything speculative I say is cause for concern. Especially when I'm outlining multiple possibilities which may or may not be mutually exclusive.

Fair enough on that point, I retract. It was only the most recent reason, I'm still quite suspicious of you

 

[cabot]

Third: I would appreciate comments on my read of El Topo. I should have been in bed like 2 hours ago.

Very good post, thanks Palmer.

I've mentioned previously here (and possibly as a throwaway in the GAFia thread) that I was very suspicious of El Topo during the D1 voting (and mocked his crisis of confidence mid voting drama). I knew the majority of his posts had been fluff up until that point, but that was when I went from harmless to scummy.

I didn't see the contrast between D1 and the D2 Visualante hate train until you pointed out, also being very suspicious behaviour. Even more rich considering his behaviour at the end of D1.

I'd also like to add this exchange, in response to my list of opinions on everyone:

I don't really have an awful lot of time to post today, cabbeh. I have suspicions towards several players, not based currently on a single post/statement, but on the way they behave and interact with others, as well as their general play style.

That said - I haven't read what was posted while I was gone, sorry - shouldn't we also discuss the former and the new mission members? We have two new members (me and Ezzi), as well as two old members (Mazre and Palmer). Assuming mafia always want someone on the mission, if Ezzi is not mafia, that leaves Mazre and Palmer, both players that were incredibly quick to volunteer and I'm not sure if they have given much justification.

I'm not sure if his response implies he was going to directly respond to my call out, but I read it as that, and he's continued to post fairly frequently over the day, but not in response to my suspicions. He then deflects onto the mission members.

My current lynch list is looking like this : Septimus Prime, Mazre, El Topo, Seath

Zubz is flirting with the fire by defending a vote on El Topo and some other posts, I'm going to go through them in a bit more detail tonight to get some clarity.

 

[cabot]

I'd just like to briefly bring up Septimus' recent posts:

That's fair, and I will share when I have some evidence. Right now, I have nothing other than some feelings, which are subject to change.

I'm at work.

I did post earlier that I think Ezekel's reveal makes sense right now, though, since if the KGB did try to assassinate him and failed, with the Doctor already out of play, they should immediately know that he is being protected by some power. Personally, I would have waited a tad longer to see if they would try pushing for a lynch, too, at which time it becomes pretty obvious who they are. Nonetheless, it's too late for that now, though.

I am also suspicious of squidyj, which is why I voted for him. I have a few other suspicions about other players, but these are just gut feelings, which I will keep to myself for now, since I don't want to influence voting on just a bit of information. I also want to try to get one person out at a time, so I don't want to diffuse interest in my suspects for anyone who does value my opinion.

I mean, you're right. It's hard to say right now, but I just do have that suspicion, even if it's tenuous without further information.

As for Ezekel, he basically played the "I am L" gambit, which makes sense to me. If KGB did try to assassinate him and failed, with the Doctor out of play already, it would be obvious to them that he would have some special power that's blocking them from killing him.

Your predecessor was about to go down, until he was saved, last-minute by a refocus on Visualante2, which was mostly put forth and heavily pushed by squidyj. My reasoning for voting for squidyj is that, if he does get lynched and turns out the be KGB, there's a good chance you are, too, so it's a potential twofer.

I also found this really weird. My initial reaction at that time was, who the hell is Zubz, and what makes him suspicious? And then, on top of that, he got he ball rolling on Visualante, diverting a whole bunch of people who were voting for GLT/Daryl. I also wonder if that means that he is a KGB trying to protect one of his own.

VOTE: squidyj

If it turns out he's KGB, there's a good chance Daryl is, too.

I don't know about you guys, but they all seem like reasonably solid logic and some decent insights. Definitely a far cry from the man who couldn't understand reasonably simple rules on D1.

 

[Darryl]

There is a hand fucking full of useless posters this game. Why does this Squidyj/GLT bandwagon have any traction whatsoever? Why not tear apart the vote list or something? You know why you're not? Because you really don't care. You're picking on who you think is easy because your life isn't on the line and it's obvious.

Useless Fucking Posters:
Zubz
Septimus
Royistheone

 

[cabot]

There is a hand fucking full of useless posters this game. Why does this Squidyj/GLT bandwagon have any traction whatsoever? Why not tear apart the vote list or something? You know why you're not? Because you really don't care. You're picking on who you think is easy because your life isn't on the line and it's obvious.

Useless Fucking Posters:
Zubz
Septimus
Royistheone

 

[El Topo]

I'm not sure if his response implies he was going to directly respond to my call out, but I read it as that, and he's continued to post fairly frequently over the day, but not in response to my suspicions. He then deflects onto the mission members.

I had planned to get work done yesterday evening, but decided to postpone it. If absolutely necessary I'd be willing to PM Ouro details regarding this, but I assure you that I would not lie about outside stuff to gain an advantage in the game.

I will answer Palmer in my next post.

 

[El Topo]

Early volunteer but not quite fast enough. Hints at mission related powers.

I didn't expect the game to start early, so I was too late to volunteer. I don't see how I am hinting at anything, I was (and still am) simply wondering if there are powers related to a game mechanic. That seems like a no-brainer.

More possible hints about a role.

Again, no hint. I wanted to contribute/start a debate about missions and their role in this game, which ultimately never happened.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but he has yet to say anything of value himself at this point.

As I have expressed repeatedly, I consider most debate on the first day pointless and misleading, as it most often leads to lynching someone based on nothing that could be called evidence. I don't know what was "discussed" at the time, but I'm sure it will be considered utterly pointless in hindsight.

Fair enough but he still hasn't posted anything concrete.

After this game is over we will look over the posts on the first day and find out that virtually none of them were useful or concrete.

Lying is part of the game. That's why we shouldn't be using anything outside the actual thread to judge anyone. Feels like this is a smokescreen for his own potential shenanigans.

No. I really don't like lying about real world stuff and I will generally believe any real world explanation.

Why wouldn't you read all of his posts first?

It's the first day. What could he possibly (and realistically) have told us to change my mind? I have expressed quite often how little I think of posts on the first day.

This was the post that triggered most of my suspicions. It's late in the day and he knows NOT voting is a bad thing, so he tries to absolve himself of responsibility by letting someone else pick a target.

Eh. I've expressed earlier that someone has to die and I also made it clear I didn't care much about who we would lynch. Worst case I expected we might force a power role to reveal and ultimately it turned out worse.

That said, I subsequently voted without being told by anyone, something which you neglected to mention the very next post.

Jumps on a bandwagon, at a point where Visualante is also starting to get jumped.

When I began to post/vote, he still seemed in competition. I thought about voting for Visualante2, but decided that it would seem even more suspicious of me to follow the winning team.

He was fine with railroading Tiger, but we're all assholes for doing the exact same thing to visualante. Such a bullshit post. He also claims we all fucked up by not voting Roy with him, but he only claimed "gut feelings" the two times he even MENTIONS roy. Never actually presented any evidence.

I'm sorry, are you implying we didn't fuck up when we lynched a player without defending himself*, which turned out to be the doctor? It's a semi-serious post about how we screwed up and how lynching roy, who I accused for no tangible reason earlier (which I have also been very open about), would have been better.

Evidence? Again, what evidence could I have on the very first day? Be so kind to elaborate. You keep talking about concrete posts and evidence, yet - with all due respect - base your own theories on the flimsiest of evidence.

*For the record, I didn't realize that until after he had been lynched, so I'm not off the hook there either. We definitely shouldn't have lynched anyone without allowing him to defend himself.

Altogether, it just feels like somone trying to post enough to escape attention without really doing anything particularly useful, and while casting aspersions at everyone he can.

I have explained thoroughly what I think of posts on the first day. I think claiming that I posted just "enough to escape attention" is also dishonest and I'm not sure how someone could reasonably come to that conclusion, especially in comparison with other players.

If anything I was honest and consistent the first day. I will answer your Day 2 analysis in the next post.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Again not much to say about who I'd like to vote but I do have a couple of choices.

1. Squidyj

First of all, the voting from D1 is still lingering in my head. Vis getting voted out like that feels orchestrated. The whole day, squidyj posted many many many time, which gave a scent of a townie who's looking for the interest of the town. He was starting conversation, making people participate, he was giving life to this game (almost tied for first in posts, trailing by 2 under Palmer). To be honest, I even thought he was a townie because of the way he acted. After seeing the results on day 1 votes, I feel that he betrayed us by driving that train onto Vis. Now that Day 2 started, I'm seeing a steep drop in posts by Squidyj. Trying to lay low to let the heat disappear, after saving buddy GLT?

2. Seath

Wtf is with the mindfuck? I'm sure the mind game keeps going. Are you faking a fake role claim? Making that a legit role claim. If so, I don't see any reason why we should keep Seath in as it goes against, the Duchess. Seath explained in his 'fake' role claim that he only wins if Archer gets voted out, what if that's a ruse to make sure he stays alive to actually fulfill his endgame by killing him during the night or twilight? Yes, he could've been silent and not role claim to stay alive and kill archer at night without anyone knowing, but he already had some votes on him yesterday, so he had to be sure to stay alive to win.

3. EzekelRage

I currently believe what he says as it does make sense with the no-kill night, but I think there is more to your role that you haven't explained. What I'm saying is Sterling Archer is the main character of the show, you must have a power role that you can use during the night. Being unable to be killed during night, except by HP or maybe Conway (referring to previous point) plus a power role seems plausible for the turtle neck wearing spy.

Thanks for the reads, Mike... but why did you begin your post that way? Like, you are obviously aware that there is this pattern you've gotten into.... so much so that you prefaced it with "Again not much to say about who I'd like to vote but I do have a couple of choices"....

Why is it "again not much to say" about who you'd like to vote? It sort of reads flimsy to me now :< Your take on these three people are basically:

1. squidy - you think he is baddie for D1 mislynch
2. seath - basically: "guys, i dont understand seath"
3. ezekel - ability fishing ... MUST he have a night ability? MUST he?

Sorry :< But I'm not quite satisfied with this reply >___<

In D1 you only voted for cooljeanius (#930), giving reason that he seemed as if he wanted to got on Enker's case, .... but cooljeanius never actually lit that fire under Enker's seat. Instead, the people he voted for in D1 were: squidy, QuantumBro and EzekelRAGE. If you had said that you doubted him because he bandwagonned squidy's vote, I'd have given more weight to your vote! Because he did got on the squidy vote (#718) right after Arkos did so (#712)... (though to be fair, the one that started that squidy vote was Mazre with his infamous first post after the game started).

I mean people say their scumreads from time to time, but ... yeah idk though, your reasoning behind your voting for cooljeanius does not really sell me at the moment.

I'm going to keep my vote on you for now. But I'm all ears! Give me them words!

 

[cabot]

1)I didn't expect the game to start early, so I was too late to volunteer. I don't see how I am hinting at anything, I was (and still am) simply wondering if there are powers related to a game mechanic. That seems like a no-brainer. Again, no hint. I wanted to contribute/start a debate about missions and their role in this game, which ultimately never happened.



2As I have expressed repeatedly, I consider most debate on the first day pointless and misleading, as it most often leads to lynching someone based on nothing that could be called evidence. I don't know what was "discussed" at the time, but I'm sure it will be considered utterly pointless in hindsight.
After this game is over we will look over the posts on the first day and find out that virtually none of them were useful or concrete.


3)It's the first day. What could he possibly (and realistically) have told us to change my mind? I have expressed quite often how little I think of posts on the first day.
Eh. I've expressed earlier that someone has to die and I also made it clear I didn't care much about who we would lynch. Worst case I expected we might force a power role to reveal and ultimately it turned out worse.

4)That said, I subsequently voted without being told by anyone, something which you neglected to mention the very next post.
When I began to post/vote, he still seemed in competition. I thought about voting for Visualante2, but decided that it would seem even more suspicious of me to follow the winning team.

5)I'm sorry, are you implying we didn't fuck up when we lynched a player without defending himself*, which turned out to be the doctor? It's a semi-serious post about how we screwed up and how lynching roy, who I accused for no tangible reason earlier (which I have also been very open about), would have been better.
Evidence? Again, what evidence could I have on the very first day? Be so kind to elaborate. You keep talking about concrete posts and evidence, yet - with all due respect - base your own theories on the flimsiest of evidence.
*For the record, I didn't realize that until after he had been lynched, so I'm not off the hook there either. We definitely shouldn't have lynched anyone without allowing him to defend himself.

I've bolded numbering in your quotes to refer to each point

1) Palmer has covered that no abilities happen on the mission (this was day 2 mind, so you should've read and understood it!), no one on the mission has contested the point. That to me proves there's nothing to be discussed regarding them anymore. There was also some discussion on the missions and their potential abilities in Day 1, but nothing useful is posted in Day 1, right? So you obviously flogged it. Missing Palmer's clarification on the mission is suspect, and not the only suspect thing you've said.

2) Don't agree at all, there were lessons learned from Day 1 that contradicts your point that everything there is useless. Suspicious behaviour from Mazre, Septimus' rules slip up, Seath's fluff, squidy's prodding, Haly's points on how to play. How are these useless? This is good information, the very idea of you discounting this makes no sense..

3) Your previous point makes even less sense with this answer, you've picked roy at random, you now say nothing he said would have changed your mind, yet you're moaning about how we fucked up because Visualante never had a chance to defend himself? But it's Day 1, by your logic we should ignore anything anyone says and just go with gut feeling. Squidy's gut was visualante, why is his choice any worse than yours based on the logic you're displaying here?

4) I'm beating the nail with the same hammer here, but your logic can be applied across the whole slate, which is showing how flawed it is. Why would your voting behaviour be viewed as suspicious? nothing useful and concrete to be taken from Day 1, after all. Nothing to worry about here.

5) What happens if roy was/is a power role and we lynched him under your 'reasoning' would that be considered a fuck up? or would you say well my gut said so and nothing on Day 1 matters so what the hey. Visualante was bad luck, it wasn't a fuckup. He had made a good lynch case for himself through his actions, and didn't attempt to resolve that before the voting time was up. It was dumb luck that he was a power role and we lynched him. It was bad play that he didn't even hint at it once and failed to be there for the deadline without actually warning anyone.

I'm surprised my quote even appeared in this post to be honest, I thought NeoGAF would be coded with the universal rule that Day 1 Mafia is a bogey game. Fuck it, right?

Also, I don't know why you mentioned real life in response to my post, I wasn't implying you were hiding behind it. On the contrary you said you were not going to be available and then proceeded to post quite a lot afterwards. My point was more you seemed to ignore my accusation and continued on, it wasn't anything to do with your stipulation that you would be busy IRL.

 

[El Topo]

No real opinion about this, but it does mean he's one of the few who did try to get onto both missions so far. Yes, I'm aware that list includes me.

As I have said, I am willing to step down if necessary.

Sorry it's taken so long.

Ah, no problem. I've posted way too much. Didn't expect such a thorough exam.

So remember his last post from yesterday? Where we were all fools for not voting Roytheone? Totally seems to have forgotten it. He also specifically said that he doesn't like people who don't have a vote in play, so where is his?

I wrote that I have a problem with people that don't vote. Having a vote "in play" at all times seems pointless. I also made it quite clear that the first day is fundamentally different. We have no information whatsoever the first day, other than role information (such as "You win if player XYZ survives") or class information (mafia members), which is completely different from the second day, where it turned out that e.g. Ezzi was (supposedly) attacked during the night.

No real comments on that set of posts. They're all sort of contributing, but not really helping us find Mafia. A lot of us were doing the same thing.

How does discussing how no one got killed not help us, especially given that Ezzi came forward later and claimed he got attacked? How is it not helpful to discuss whether Ezzi is telling the truth and what Honeypot might be able to do/who he or she might be.

I agree. Problem is I think the problem is either El Topo or Mazre.

I was referring to the original mission members. As I explained later, you pointed that out, I was mistaken about him having been on a mission.

Look forward to seeing what he comes up with. I do wonder if this is being done under duress since I've been after him today.

Not really.

Leaves out himself, who tried to get on the first mission. Maybe Mafia was too slow the first time around?

My post is about who could be mafia, so of course I'm leaving myself out.

There was plenty of reason to lynch a neutral in this case.

Other than potentially lying about his role I don't think so. Neutral is neutral. Unless the role harms town, there is no reason to lynch him.

This goes beyond El Topo, but all of the Honeypot being on the mission assumptions are ridiculous. Anyone not named ER could be the Honeypot.

Eh, maybe.

Oh shit, he remembered roy, the guy he has barely mentioned today after calling all of us out yesterday.

No need to vote for roy at this point. No need to vote for anyone at this point, unless someone doesn't believe Ezzi, Seath or the subtle "I might be a drone" guys. Or me, if you believe Palmer.

Look forward to the list.

Well, I meant the post-counting list.

Oh, it's just today's post counts. Not super useful, but it's something.

Learning that Seath used post counts to accuse Visualante2, I would urge all of you to not accuse someone solely based on post counts, at least not without giving the player a chance to defend himself/herself.

Contributing a theory that Seath is actually Neutral based on apparently using the word unaligned.

I'm very proud of that theory.

Anyway, like I said at the top, all this did was reinforce my belief that's Mafia.

Seems more like you decided on me being a scapegoat and subsequently tried to come up with a (shaky) narrative based on flimsy evidence. I'm not even sure if you're mafia, if you're really accusing me, or if you're just trying to squeeze information out of me.

 

[Ourobolus]

I'll get an official vote count up in a couple hours when I get to work.

 

[cabot]

Also did you seriously just count a bunch of posts and separate them by author, without reading the content?

I feel like that was time truly wasted.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I wouldn't jump on them for not posting about the mission. There's sadly just not a lot to say and I kinda covered it already.

I'm also willing to unvolunteer. I didn't really intend to stay on this one, but wanted to have a choice about it. Unfortunately, two people I distrust are already on this one, so I'm not sure if backing down in favor of YesNo is advantageous or not.

Palmer, I just saw this and I want to say if it was a toss up between you or me to go to a Night mission with already 2 of the goers are people you dont really trust, I rather than you go than me. I'm still noob at the game and I wouldnt be able to read them as well as you.

Not speaking for the other back-up volunteers, obvs.



Unless you think I'm ready for my first FIELD MISSION :3

Also, I still like the idea of sending only 2 of us for N2 mission, just to keep dear Sterling as safe as houses :>

 

[El Topo]

1) Palmer has covered that no abilities happen on the mission (this was day 2 mind, so you should've read and understood it!), no one on the mission has contested the point. That to me proves there's nothing to be discussed regarding them anymore. There was also some discussion on the missions and their potential abilities in Day 1, but nothing useful is posted in Day 1, right? So you obviously flogged it. Missing Palmer's clarification on the mission is suspect, and not the only suspect thing you've said.

I missed that. Care to show me the post where he said that no one used their ability and the evidence that would make any of us believe this rather weird claim? Or are you saying that abilities cannot be used on missions, which would seem contradictory to what I remember reading.

Please elaborate on that.

2) Don't agree at all, there were lessons learned from Day 1 that contradicts your point that everything there is useless. Suspicious behaviour from Mazre, Septimus' rules slip up, Seath's fluff, squidy's prodding, Haly's points on how to play. How are these useless? This is good information, the very idea of you discounting this makes no sense..

If you consider that (beyond general "How to play" advice) good information, I don't even know what to tell you. It was utterly useless on the first day, it may at best be used as soft evidence (hopefully in addition to hard evidence) later.

The kind of information I consider good is e.g. information on whether someone died, what someone did, who switched who and so on, all not available on the first day (and maybe not until much later). Tangible information that does not rely on vaguely interpreting posts. Information from Day 1 is useless by itself (and thus for quite some time).

3) Your previous point makes even less sense with this answer, you've picked roy at random, you now say nothing he said would have changed your mind, yet you're moaning about how we fucked up because Visualante never had a chance to defend himself? But it's Day 1, by your logic we should ignore anything anyone says and just go with gut feeling. Squidy's gut was visualante, why is his choice any worse than yours based on the logic you're displaying here?

Unless someone hints at or reveals his role, there is nothing (on the first day) one could say that could count as tangible evidence. I said that without said evidence, there is no way to tell on who to lynch, so we should just pick anyone.

It should be evident that if roy had been a power role, he would have role claimed at the last moment and we all would've unvoted him, see e.g. (starting #927) when I accused RobotNinjaHornets in the very first Gafia game (although in that case it turned out RNH was playing us).

4) I'm beating the nail with the same hammer here, but your logic can be applied across the whole slate, which is showing how flawed it is. Why would your voting behaviour be viewed as suspicious? nothing useful and concrete to be taken from Day 1, after all. Nothing to worry about here.

Just because I am convinced nothing useful and concrete can be taken from Day 1 (at least *on* Day 1), doesn't mean others can't be convinced of the opposite. Again, I am not even ruling out that once tangible evidence is presented one can in addition analyze the first day, but by itself it's pretty useless.

5) What happens if roy was/is a power role and we lynched him under your 'reasoning' would that be considered a fuck up? or would you say well my gut said so and nothing on Day 1 matters so what the hey.

Of course it would be a fuck up. That doesn't mean that I would necessarily be suspicious, but it would be a fuck up nonetheless.

Visualante was bad luck, it wasn't a fuckup. He had made a good lynch case for himself through his actions, and didn't attempt to resolve that before the voting time was up. It was dumb luck that he was a power role and we lynched him. It was bad play that he didn't even hint at it once and failed to be there for the deadline without actually warning anyone.

No, it was a fuck-up. We shouldn't have lynched anyone without letting that person defend himself. It's not bad luck, it's bad play (from all involved). I didn't notice it earlier and obviously Visualante2 is not blameless, he should've done something earlier, but it is nonetheless a fuck-up. We are all to blame for that.

I'm surprised my quote even appeared in this post to be honest, I thought NeoGAF would be coded with the universal rule that Day 1 Mafia is a bogey game. Fuck it, right?

Day 1 is not completely pointless, but it is very pointless until additional evidence presents itself.

Also, I don't know why you mentioned real life in response to my post, I wasn't implying you were hiding behind it. On the contrary you said you were not going to be available and then proceeded to post quite a lot afterwards. My point was more you seemed to ignore my accusation and continued on, it wasn't anything to do with your stipulation that you would be busy IRL.

Ah, okay, nevermind then. I was just trying to explain why I decided to post despite originally saying that I would be busy.

 

[cabot]

I missed that. Care to show me the post where he said that no one used their ability and the evidence that would make any of us believe this rather weird claim? Or are you saying that abilities cannot be used on missions, which would seem contradictory to what I remember reading.

Please elaborate on that.

It is just a chat. Ouro has one post giving us the generic rules, and then he had a post a little bit before Day2 started warning us that he was about to close the chat. Otherwise it was just the 4 of us talking.

.

 

[cabot]

Oh I see there's a slightly different meaning. I'm referring to the mission itself has no special abilities for the volunteers, but palmer's post certainly points to nothing else being different aside from the rule of abilities only being able to be used on other volunteers/non-volunteers.