1. What did you think about the mission mechanic? Did it work well? What would you change?
2. How about balance? Did the roles have appropriate counter-roles? Too many power roles?
3. How was the fluff/flavor?
4. How was the "cosplay"-themed game (i.e. named characters rather than things like "The Doctor")?
5. Any other feedback?
1. I think the mission mechanic was interesting and quite nifty! It could have been taken advantage of by both sides, and it's not as zany as some of the other mechanics in the other games? I was wary of it at the beginning but I think it's an interesting twist to the game and it gives even ordinary roles some chance to feel as if they've got a night action to do. So that's nice
Mission mechanics: makes it easier for PR to work, eliminate 20% of probabilities to work with. However, the game feels balanced by having 4 mafias and 2 neutrals (with one of them having the ability to multi kill). The biggest reason why the mafia lose feel like only haly is putting the work.
2. balance was okay! i was disheartened at the early phases but i think we got lucky? my real hot list (which i didn't post to the thread cuz i was being sneakies and stuff) was haly, seath, and mikehawk (as now you guys has witnessed from my blockies picks) and it's hella weird that squidy was also on haly's butts XD (poor haly)
3. flavour was awesome! it got me to watch archer and i love all the day end/night end messages <3 very well done!
Top notch fluff, very enjoy reading ouro flavour and always a bit sad when other mods have to sub since it's not the same. However thanks also to other mods to sub and provide results as I'm impatient (couldn't imagine RNH pain to wait for a whole day before he got the game ends result lol)
4. i likey ! Great flavour and very good natured. People seem to enjoy playing the characters they are assigned
5. Thanks for hosting this game! <3 I look forward to playing with everyone again ! I am glad i got to play Cyril! He's my favourite from the series...
other stuff:
poor haly! it's so unfortunate when the mafia team isn't as active as they should be. it's a huge handicap for the mafia! but i think corgilord was playing extremely well.... i had picked him from the get go but he was reading so much town that by d3 i was doubting my N1 block.... so KUDOS TO YOU, HALY <333333
memories:
squidy's soakedness :>
theG's Arrow 'roleclaim'
el topo's cate archer
squidy's haly gambit
town was super cohesive in this game. it was a sight to behold and an experience to be a part of. you guys rock <3
The "Best Newbie" Award: cabbeh
Typically frequent poster, strangely obsessed with YNNNY - cabbeh stepped up to provide plenty of relatively sane arguments throughout the game. TheGoddamn was a close pick for this one, as he rarely posted but usually had good insight, but cabbeh ekes out by being a very engaged member of the town team.
Loved the flavor, Ourob. Extremely fortuitous that I got assigned to this game, when it's the only universe (of the three this season, plus SW and AC) I'm very familiar with.
Loved the flavor, Ourob. Extremely fortuitous that I got assigned to this game, when it's the only universe (of the three this season, plus SW and AC) I'm very familiar with.
All right, good job, ISIS! You certainly...erm...wiped the floor with the KGB. Before we get to the general game retrospective, let's get a couple things out of the way...
The "Sterling Archer" Award: squidyj
Squidy's an arrogant bastard, let's face it. But he's an arrogant bastard you want on your team. Despite the fact that I can't believe you all didn't policy lynch him for his ridiculous cop claim, he's been on top of organizing damn near everything since then.
The "Luckiest Son of a Bitch" Award: YesNOnoNOYes
This game would have lasted several more days if it hadn't been for YNNNY's ridiculously lucky roleblock on Night 3. She had a 7% chance of blocking the killer, Mike_Hawk, and she got him. KGB, for some reason (and more on this later), thought there was a third doctor, so they didn't realize what was going on for two nights.
The "I Got This" Award: Darryl
Things may have gone differently if Darryl hadn't subbed in for GreatLord Tiger early on - and even more so had he not been on the mission the first night. Darryl was the first one to really recognize the utility of the missions from a town perspective - isolate a group of people and start investigating them one by one.
The "Premature Ejaculation" Award: Enker
I think we all know where I'm going with this.
The "I Wish I'd Thought of That" Award: El Topo
Cate Archer was genius. I can't believe I didn't think of that. NOLF was awesome. But on the other hand, Disney Robin Hood is awesome too, so nyah.
The "Best Newbie" Award: cabbeh
Typically frequent poster, strangely obsessed with YNNNY - cabbeh stepped up to provide plenty of relatively sane arguments throughout the game. TheGoddamn was a close pick for this one, as he rarely posted but usually had good insight, but cabbeh ekes out by being a very engaged member of the town team.
The "I'm Sorry, Could You Repeat That?" Award: Septimus Prime
C'mon man!
I'll chalk it up to first game jitters - hope you play again next season!
The "Habitat for Humanity" Award: Mazre
I think you've earned your merit badge, son.
The "Best Friends With the Moderator" Award: Haly
Haly was forced onto a team of KGB that was really, really, inactive. One role got replaced twice, and Mike and QB didn't really step up their game until they had to - after the others had been killed. Haly mostly talked to me for the first few days.
The "Excitable Third String Quarterback" Award: Gorlak
I do wonder how different things may have gone if Gorlak had been in from the start. Teamwork is an integral part of playing the Mafia side, and Gorlak was really into it from the get-go, after replacing TheAwesomePossum, who in turn replaced Razmos. Sadly he only lasted a short while.
Nah I'm more angry at gullible ISIS than you. It's such a dangerous assumption. If Akros or cabbeh had been KGB how long would they have slipped by? If I namedropped "drone" day 1?
1. What did you think about the mission mechanic? Did it work well? What would you change?
2. How about balance? Did the roles have appropriate counter-roles? Too many power roles?
3. How was the fluff/flavor?
4. How was the "cosplay"-themed game (i.e. named characters rather than things like "The Doctor")?
5. Any other feedback?
1. Pretty well, but definitely seemed to favor town pretty heavily, maybe we were just really on top of things with our volunteering. I think you were right about needing a charge limited long range kill or even a time delayed kill to shake things up.
2. Think you're right on the money that KGB ended up a bit weak in the balance dept. Town may have had a few too many, though were very thematically appropriate.
3. A++ excellent use of theme and some great fluff. My favorite being the one for Haly's lynch (though I guess that was also the least in theme)
4. Again executed well, though may have provided too much info to town.
5. <3
Just getting started on the KGB thread, my favorite thing so far is you just handing them the drone role and us putting so much faith in Cabbeh/Arkos solely on drone claims.
Nah I'm more angry at gullible ISIS than you. It's such a dangerous assumption. If Akros or cabbeh had been KGB how long would they have slipped by? If I namedropped "drone" day 1?
Please don't think that that was the only thing going on, in my head the argument ran that Cabbeh was reading as town most of the game after I recalibrated on day 1 and that Arkos was (sorry arkos) a weaker player who if he was scum we could afford to leave alive for some time.
I add to that the likelihood that scum would even realize what was going on with the lack of a post before it happened and It makes it easy to ignore them as scum for most of the game.
Please don't think that that was the only thing going on, in my head the argument ran that Cabbeh was reading as town most of the game after I recalibrated on day 1 and that Arkos was (sorry arkos) a weaker player who if he was scum we could afford to leave alive for some time.
I don't think it was the only thing going on in your head, but the idea spread pretty quickly and took root. I didn't think everyone shared your nuance, which is what I was afraid of.
As KGB, my greatest fear is the development of a hive-mind because it's difficult to interrupt without seeming suspicious. Then again, I thought everything I did was suspicious. I'm not very good with curse of knowledge.
I don't think it was the only thing going on in your head, but the idea spread pretty quickly and took root. I didn't think everyone shared your nuance, which is what I was afraid of.
As KGB, my greatest fear is the development of a hive-mind because it's difficult to interrupt without seeming suspicious. Then again, I thought everything I did was suspicious. I'm not very good with curse of knowledge.
Damn, Haly. You were perfect for KGB boss (this was on the first day or something):
I'm thinking we should refrain from killing anyone in the mission in the earlier days. But if I was a Cop, I would volunteer, both to protect myself (killing in the mission is a huge risk for us) and also to investigate people who volunteer, who may be trying to pick him off. So, we give up our chance to kill the Cop in exchange for avoiding the deathtrap of Missions.
1. What did you think about the mission mechanic? Did it work well? What would you change?
-----It was fun. Thought for sure there wouldve been a kill mechanic that bypassed the mission. Like someone could attach a bomb to someone. If they activate it on the mission it kills all on the mission.
2. How about balance? Did the roles have appropriate counter-roles? Too many power roles?
Seemed like KGB was kinda weak, idk. Other than that it was ok.
3. How was the fluff/flavor?
I liked it.
4. How was the "cosplay"-themed game (i.e. named characters rather than things like "The Doctor")?
I didn't mind
5. Any other feedback?
Not really. Was good game and had fun.
I don't think it was the only thing going on in your head, but the idea spread pretty quickly and took root. I didn't think everyone shared your nuance, which is what I was afraid of.
As KGB, my greatest fear is the development of a hive-mind because it's difficult to interrupt without seeming suspicious. Then again, I thought everything I did was suspicious. I'm not very good with curse of knowledge.
It was an obvious conclusion anyone could've made. But I also neutered myself by refusing to join missions for fear of being Tracked/Watched so it worked against me as well.
No time. I really was busy during most of the game and couldn't spend hours pretending to be town (which is the current flavor of town play on GAFia). I was just trying to engage the rest of my team. Making plans is easy. I can do it on the train (I did do it on the train), but putting together a fake theory using pretend evidence is a whole other matter.
Here you go squidy. Now you can see what I mean that it wouldve been easy for Gorlak to put it together Darryl was cop. Looking at KGB, it's exactly what he did.
1. What did you think about the mission mechanic? Did it work well? What would you change?
It was fine. Not overly complicated. I might have started it with a bigger mission pool and reduced it as players died. i.e. the mission size is 1/5th of the player count, rounded up. So 5 on the first mission, but only 3 by the time we ended. It was unfortunate that volunteering could be so easily manipulated by those with the time to be online when Day started. I might have had a neutral role that involved the missions, but giving mafia a power to fuck with it would have invalidated it's usefulness entirely. Mafia REALLY needed someone on M1. That was one of their biggest mistakes.
2. How about balance? Did the roles have appropriate counter-roles? Too many power roles? Roles seemed good. I liked the Lighting Rod. Balance was good, I think. It's hard to say because, no offense intended, the Mafia team did not play well at all, and the town power roles were mostly on point. El Topo was pretty hosed with a LR and Doc existing. He probably needed a little more help with his role.
3. How was the fluff/flavor? Great
4. How was the "cosplay"-themed game (i.e. named characters rather than things like "The Doctor")?
Fluff was great, but I will never like role names to be anything but the generic names, i.e. Town Cop, Town Watcher, etc. It favors people familiar with the fluff far more.
5. Any other feedback? The lack of initial sample role pms was bad, though it turns out that could have swung either way. Cabbeh played in a way that I would have trusted him, but Arkos was so inactive that I would have spent more time watching him if not for that. I still had a lot of fun even as an ordinary drone.
Sorry to Darryl for not trusting you more, but the way you came into Mission 1 chat seemed incredibly stupid! I don't feel like I did anything else terribly badly. I was definitely getting passive since we had distinctly optimal lynches for half the game. Only briefly distracted the Mafia this time, compared to the last two games. Nobody tried to kill me, so that was nice!
I aired this frustration in the chat but I felt that the PRs heavily favored Town.
Town:
Doctor
Backup Doctor
Roleblocker
Cop
Watcher
1-shot Bulletproof + Vulnerability to KGB Roleblocker
Override (granted this is a double edge sword)
1-shot Lightning Rod
Mission Spy
Neutral:
Lynchee
3-shot Serial Killer
KGB:
Roleblocker
Framer
Ninja
And this is on top of the Mission mechanic. No one was getting on that mission without:
A) Camping it out: Mazre, Palmer, squidy
B) Claiming: Ezekel
I mean, what were we supposed to do? We expose ourselves by making every effort trying to get on it and expose ourselves by staying off of it and expose ourselves if we try to kill on it. And this is on top of all the other shit that we have to deal with.
From MafiaScum wiki, this is what a game with ~48% win rate for town looks like:
7 town:2 mafia
Mafia Roleblocker
Town Cop
Town Doctor
I mean, I'm not crazy right? Let's say Roleblocker and Ninja cancels out Doctor, Cop and Watcher. SK cancels out Backup Doctor and Bulletproof. Town still gets:
Override
1-shot Lightning Rod
Roleblocker
Mission Spy
Missions (missions are controlled by the majority which certainly isn't going to be KGB)
I guess I'm just being super salty about this, and I won't deny we played awfully, but look at this shit. It's fucking stacked.
You definitely played better this time. You made yourself heard more, didn't ever really come across scummy, and did a damn good job with your role. Would definitely murder N1 if I was Mafia.
Nah, Haly. I get it.
I nerfed you guys - sorry this game wasn't as good as it could have been. I hate to say that you all had to be part of a learning experience for me, but I guarantee I've got a much better handle on balance now.
Negative feedback is just as good, if not better, than positive.
I aired this frustration in the chat but I felt that the PRs heavily favored Town.
Town:
Doctor
Backup Doctor
Roleblocker
Cop
Tracker
1-shot Bulletproof + Vulnerability to KGB Roleblocker
Override (granted this is a double edge sword)
1-shot Lightning Rod
Neutral:
Lynchee
3-shot Serial Killer
KGB:
Roleblocker
Framer
Ninja
And this is on top of the Mission mechanic. No one was getting on that mission without:
A) Camping it out: Mazre, Palmer, squidy
B) Claiming: Ezekel
I mean, what were we supposed to do? We expose ourselves by making every effort trying to get on it and expose ourselves by staying off of it and expose ourselves if we try to kill on it. And this is on top of all the other shit that we have to deal with.
From MafiaScum wiki, this is what a game with 50% win rate from the two factions looks like:
9 players
Mafia Roleblocker
Town Cop
Town Doctor
I mean, I'm not crazy right? Let's say Roleblocker and Ninja cancels out Doctor, Cop and Tracker. SK cancels out Second Doctor and Bulletproof. Town still gets:
Override
1-shot Lightning Rod
Roleblocker
Missions (missions are controlled by the majority which certainly isn't going to be KGB)
I guess I'm just being super salty about this, and I won't deny we played awfully, but look at this shit. It's fucking stacked.
Mission definitely skewed to favor town, but a Mafia on it N1 would have changed a ton of things. I don't think it was as unbalanced as you think. Both Neutral roles were anti-town, but got shut down hard. Seath should have claimed Cop D2 and caused a ton of problems for own, but he did whatever the fuck he did instead. El Topo got blocked once by mafia, killed a doc, and then got lynched, but was acting scummy enough to nearly get lynched Day 2 before we even KNEW there was a SK. So that was two things that went town's way pretty fast. Then you got hosed quite a bit by inactive Mafia players, while Town's power roles went to active players. Add in the drone thing to help tip it. I dunno. I really feel like the neutrals should have accomplished a lot more for KGB than they did.
You definitely played better this time. You made yourself heard more, didn't ever really come across scummy, and did a damn good job with your role. Would definitely murder N1 if I was Mafia.
.... its hard to explain but it's intuition-ish :< he sort of feel as if he's intentionally trying to be a borderline active player. i was the very first one that picked on him, i think... and i booed at him for a post where he began with some sort of weak-ass apology, ... which he didn't reply to. which i found scummy. i never let the feeling go after that.
no one backed me up though :< so i just quietly making faces at him on my own.
i blocked haly n1, and since i had no other info at that time i thought n1 no-death was partially part of my doing ... then ER came out as Sterling and I was confused etc, then I moved on to my next pick, Seath, but by N3 I had this super strong gut feeling that Mike was scummy.
Glad he turned out to be the KGB ninja
Thanks for crits!! I learned so much from SW. I was super put off by changing
/flipflopping my votes in there, lol iSucked ^____^;;;;;; ahhh, all part of learning how to be a better GAFia player, i guess :>
I still don't understand why people keep me alive. I'm sure it's about to change next game I get into. I'm going to have to start answering "why isn't squidyj dead yet?" posts.
I thought El Topo's "3 kill to win" was too trivial for a neutral role but in hindsight there was a lot of blocking and immunity flying around so it wasn't that easy for him.
I would never bet money on KGB in this setup unless it was some allstars team of Crab/Squidy/Darryl/Palmer. That's just my perspective coming from the other end.
I still don't understand why people keep me alive. I'm sure it's about to change next game I get into. I'm going to have to start answering "why isn't squidyj dead yet?" posts.
Those hot-gate picks really worked! For one day. And it was ridiculous which players got the PR roles this time around I mean jesus. Bulletproof Ezekel, Lightning Rod Squidy, Cop Darryl... among others.
Oh I forgot Burbeting on my list. Sorry burbs! Well there's another one for town.
.... its hard to explain but it's intuition-ish :< he sort of feel as if he's intentionally trying to be a borderline active player. i was the very first one that picked on him, i think... and i booed at him for a post where he began with some sort of weak-ass apology, ... which he didn't reply to. which i found scummy. i never let the feeling go after that.
no one backed me up though :< so i just quietly making faces at him on my own.
i blocked haly n1, and since i had no other info at that time i thought n1 no-death was partially part of my doing ... then ER came out as Sterling and I was confused etc, then I moved on to my next pick, Seath, but by N3 I had this super strong gut feeling that Mike was scummy.
Glad he turned out to be the KGB ninja
Thanks for crits!! I learned so much from SW. I was super put off by changing
/flipflopping my votes in there, lol iSucked ^____^;;;;;; ahhh, all part of learning how to be a better GAFia player, i guess :>
You came in at an akward time in SW. I think you just picked up the general reads people had on me and took it for granted, when you could have been the best person to read through with a clear head to pick up my scumminess. You're fun to have in a game either way, though.
Yeah Lightning Rod is odd. Depending on when it gets used, i.e. is a Doc alive, it basically just wipes a night. Usually prevents all kills, but also gives false reports. I think it combining with a Town Watcher was a little OP.
Overrider has been anti-town in every use so far on GAFia.
I still don't understand why people keep me alive. I'm sure it's about to change next game I get into. I'm going to have to start answering "why isn't squidyj dead yet?" posts.
It's best held for end game, if possible, or if you have another way of being absolutely certain about someone, i.e. darryl had found a scum and told you on a mission to railroad them.
I thought El Topo's "3 kill to win" was too trivial for a neutral role but in hindsight there was a lot of blocking and immunity flying around so it wasn't that easy for him.
I would never bet money on KGB in this setup unless it was some allstars team of Crab/Squidy/Darryl/Palmer. That's just my perspective coming from the other end.
Those hot-gate picks really worked! For one day. And it was ridiculous which players got the PR roles this time around I mean jesus. Bulletproof Ezekel, Lightning Rod Squidy, Cop Darryl... among others.
Oh I forgot Burbeting on my list. Sorry burbs! Well there's another one for town.
My role got a lot worse after 2 doctors died. I was going to activate n1 but then I lynched the doctor and I was thinking "maybe better not" and then we went another day and then the 2nd doc died and I realized there was a good chance I was just going to die.
My role got a lot worse after 2 doctors died. I was going to activate n1 but then I lynched the doctor and I was thinking "maybe better not" and then we went another day and then the 2nd doc died and I realized there was a good chance I was just going to die.
I did envision a pretty funny scenario where squidy activates it, gets protected, gets framed and investigated, and Hobo watches as the ninja is nowhere to be seen.
