Dirt 3 doesn't look anywhere near that bad on consoles. Garbage "comparison".
x~30
Are current PC games a full "Generational Leap" ahead of current console games?
- Thread starter LowEndTorque
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StalkerUKCG
Banned
Hyperbole, The Thread.
PC games look great and consoles are holding game development back. Its not even a debate. When things like 4GB+ of ram are becoming standard even for budget gaming rigs games could be much more than they are now.
Id put money on the fact that games like skyrim could of been even bigger had consoles next gen come out.
Im primarily a console gamer and im happy with how games look, That being said i want them to look better. I think very few people have ever played a game and said "this looks to good i dont want an improvement"
What im more intrested in is the improvement in scale that bigger specs can bring. Development times are a huge factor aswell.
60fps
1080p
Bigger Environments
Longer Games.
Thats all i want from next gen consoles
PC games look great and consoles are holding game development back. Its not even a debate. When things like 4GB+ of ram are becoming standard even for budget gaming rigs games could be much more than they are now.
Id put money on the fact that games like skyrim could of been even bigger had consoles next gen come out.
Im primarily a console gamer and im happy with how games look, That being said i want them to look better. I think very few people have ever played a game and said "this looks to good i dont want an improvement"
What im more intrested in is the improvement in scale that bigger specs can bring. Development times are a huge factor aswell.
60fps
1080p
Bigger Environments
Longer Games.
Thats all i want from next gen consoles
IIRC they actually were using an updated version of the PS2 engine for Fifa until this year, Fifa 12 looks pretty damn good on PC now.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
One thing i noticed is that people comparing consoles to pc specs 1:1. They are totally different. One is built just for games the other has to be able to run windows and stick to shitty standards. Just check out the insides of a console compared to a pc, much more efficient. Also consoles only have to worry about ouputting to 1080p.
That said it's dev talent and money that are going to be the main factor next gen.
That said it's dev talent and money that are going to be the main factor next gen.
No I won't indulge you but I'll say this... I don't take what people say on the internet 100% to heart and let it affect me irl apparently, I facetiously made a remark on an older thread without calling out names and like fucking batman you barged into this thread calling the people around you insecure.
The mere fact that you remember that it was you my callback was about shows that whatever on earth was said in that thread affected you on such a way that you have ( a very negative ) recollection of it, i.e letting it get to you - hence my "you have issues" comment. I don't say that to sound like a jerk.
You think Skyrim would have been BIGGER? I think you have failed to understand what it is that limited the game in terms of scope. It sure as hell wasn't console hardware.
The problem we're up against now is simply that creating giant worlds with incredible detail and lots of interactivity requires a ridiculous number of man hours. The stuff doesn't just magically appear. People have to design and test it.
Game size and length have no correlation to hardware capabilities. If anything, the most impressive looking games actually become shorter and smaller in scope due to the time required to create it. Daggerfall was 100x larger than Skyrim and was released in 1997 for very old hardware.
Eh, only partly true.
If the market supported such, then there would be PC games where it would impossible to port to consoles.
You do realize that it is possible to use a USB mouse and keyboard with the PS3, right? Few games have implemented it, but it IS possible and allowed by Sony.
Felix Lighter
Member
That was the move from 2D to 3D, which was more than a simple generational leap.
I think there are games that are fundamentally too complex to be done on consoles, however, I think that has more to do input devices. StarCraft II for example, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are probably powerful enough to run the game decently but without keyboard and mouse controls, it's not the same game. That is really beside the point of this thread though, because it isn't a generational leap thing and more of a strength of the platform thing.
I've heard that. What games have implemented keyboard and mouse controls?
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Quake 1 and sm64 came out at the same time no?
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Science.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Generational Leap. Most likely. No matter what the leap is, they will never "look" generational leap compared to console games. If they did, they wouldn't be demoing them live yet running VLC player in the background.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
That graph just proves the point of diminishing returns. No one is arguing the hardware power between pc and consoles.
Games designed for PC, that struggle to reach 30fps at 1200p will obviously look inferior and a generational gap when played at sub 720p resolutions and other corners cut. Captain obvious.
Thats an Nvidia slide, PS3 is ahead for obvious reasons.A) I know it's a silly graph... but
B) People would probably divert their eyes to the discrepancy between the 360 vs ps3 pillars instead of even beginning to acknowledge anything else
Ghost_Protocol
Member
What is this supposed to mean? That because Quake was in 3D that Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, and Final Fantasy VII weren't generational leaps ahead of their predecessors (Link to the Past, Super Mario World, and Final Fantasy III) because of their 3D environments? I was listing examples of generational leaps, I wasn't saying those games were the first 3D games ever made (though I do think Quake released right around SM64).
I consider that to be a generational leap. I'd also consider the jump from FFX to FFXIII to be a generational leap.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I think Arma 2 and Shogun 2 are.
eso76
Member
no.
That's the kind of improvement you apply on games that were designed to run on older hardware when you have power in eccess.
No one is expecting next gen consoles to be more powerful than today's PC's, but i'm expecting to see a larger gap with games that don't have to be designed so they can be run on multiple configurations.
He means keyboard and mouse derp something herp.
I'd like to see a 'large' world in Civ5 played on consoles. Max cities, max city states, run the game to completion. I reckon the console would catch fire at about 1900ad.
Of course, you could scale the game down and avoid a towering inferno but that wouldn't be any fun.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Youtube does no justice to either... the image compression on youtube is so awful that it destroys the quality , it's like watching a shitty SD divx rip of a movie vs watching the blu ray version. Most of the detail and image quality is lost.
Even just going from medium/high settings to ultra in battlefield 3 is a massive leap (especially in the lighting department), and medium on pc still looks much better than the console version.
The game blew me away graphically when I played it on my 4870 , then when I upgraded to a 6870 and upped the settings it blew me away all over again.
Witcher 2 is something special as well.
Exodus is right, you better hope for a high end gpu and plenty of fast vram in the ps4/xbox3 as a lot of gpu power will be needed just to get back up to the standards we were promised at the start of this gen.
If not then they'll just make sub 30 fps games again in no time and you console only guys get to enjoy another gen of screan tearing shitty IQ mess.
*civ4
I like how people are downplaying IQ and framerate. I mean, if you downplay IQ, why did you buy a HDTV in the first place? Why don't you stick to your VHS videos? Why? IQ and framerate are the most important graphical aspects in gaming and you are downplaying them as they're not important: "Yeah, they look crisp and run silky smooth and there's no sign of tearing and no jaggies and textures are so vibrant... but except for those, it looks the same... well, and some other minor details, but they look the same. The SAME."
I dare to say people that need glasses should throw them away; after all, seeing clear is not that important.
I dare to say people that need glasses should throw them away; after all, seeing clear is not that important.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Yeah, many pay too much attentions to polygons and ignore that CPU intensive games (rather GPU intensive) are the ones that consoles would have more problem running.
WoW, a game from 2004, can't be done on consoles. People will continue on saying no PC game can't be done on current gen consoles.
RibbedHero
Member
That's because on consoles you're used to seeing it at this resolution and from 5-10 feet away:
They are *VERY* important, but not THE most important aspect. There are many other things that could improve visuals beyond simply bumping up the resolution.
They are the most important aspect, since are the main aspects that affect gameplay. In my gaming world, gameplay is king, second to none. I can't think of a graphical aspect that is more relevant than any of these.
Fair enough, but I still disagree.
Just as an impossible example; I'd be infinitely more impressed by a game with Avatar (the film) levels of detail running at 1280x720 than I would The Witcher 2 running at 4096 × 3112. That's where I'm coming from.
I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way, though.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Games designed for PC, that struggle to reach 30fps at 1200p will obviously look inferior and a generational gap when played at sub 720p resolutions and other corners cut. Captain obvious.
Thats an Nvidia slide, PS3 is ahead for obvious reasons.
Not sure what you're trying to say. Care to explain?
That's because on consoles you're used to seeing it at this resolution and from 5-10 feet away:
I'm not talking about the upscaling. The console version runs with 4xAA and that pic doesn't have an AA. Simply setting the detail to Medium in order to emulate a console is also questionable.
He is saying that he's more impressed by a 10 lbs girl eating 90 lbs of dead dog than he would be by a 200 lbs girl eating 100 lbs of dead dog.
edit : what the hell no fair, you quoted the wrong post? You gotta warn a brother after making a daring edit like that. My response was to "I'd be infinitely more impressed by a game with ....."
I've hardly used my PS3 since I got my GTX480 ~15 months ago. 60 fps ... 1080p with good AA ... great looking textures ... 60 fps 60 fps 60 fps
I can see how the resolution/jaggies aspect can depend on the size of your TV, the quality of its scaler and the distance you're sitting from it... but from my personal experience I just want to sit close anyway because of immersion and better performance in online shooters. Hell just to easily view the HUD
gameplay is largely the same of course although I wouldn't want to miss stuff like big complex Civ5 matches or 32v32 BF3 matches
as for next gen consoles, if they will indeed do 1080p 60 fps I fear that we'll have to wait a long time... they need quite some increases in efficiency still before we can stuff a (BF3) 1080p 60 fps chip in an AV sized box
I can see how the resolution/jaggies aspect can depend on the size of your TV, the quality of its scaler and the distance you're sitting from it... but from my personal experience I just want to sit close anyway because of immersion and better performance in online shooters. Hell just to easily view the HUD
gameplay is largely the same of course although I wouldn't want to miss stuff like big complex Civ5 matches or 32v32 BF3 matches
as for next gen consoles, if they will indeed do 1080p 60 fps I fear that we'll have to wait a long time... they need quite some increases in efficiency still before we can stuff a (BF3) 1080p 60 fps chip in an AV sized box
There are plenty of current PC games that look significantly worse on consoles - majority of the people just cant easily pick the difference because of a multitude of reasons.
lol
You should check out the Sony HMZ-T1, then. It uses native 1280x720 OLED displays for each eye and produces a very crisp and clean image with consoles at a huge size. It produces much better results than what you'd get with a monitor and delivers the action very close to your face. Viewing in 3D is even better as you have all of the benefits of both 2D and 3D without the negatives. 3D is just as easy on the eyes as 2D and every bit as bright.
If the immersion factor is important to you, I dare say it is one of the best options out there right now.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Huh? I quoted irfan when he called me captain obvious :/ wasnt sure what he meant.
yeah I really want to but the chance of getting one here in .nl is pretty unlikely atm ;(
should've pre-ordered it at 800 when it was still possible :x and then mod it to hell obviously...
32" 1080p on desk + comfy comfy chair + Dual Shock 3 over bluetooth with motioninjoy is enjoyable enough though with games like Alice/Batman AC
normal chair + mouse for BF3 of course*this* is why I don't consider current PC games a generation ahead. They're just taking current console games and applying icing. Lovely, beautiful, HD 60fps AA icing, but its still icing.
While consoles are holding back PC development, PCs are limited to higher resolutions/textures/framerate. While nice, you know they could do more if developed as the target platform, and so thats why they aren't a generation ahead for me.
yeah I really want to but the chance of getting one here in .nl is pretty unlikely atm ;(
should've pre-ordered it at €800 when it was still possible :x and then mod it to hell obviously...
32" 1080p on desk + comfy comfy chair + Dual Shock 3 over bluetooth with motioninjoy is enjoyable enough though with games like Alice/Batman AC
You can have mine if I don't get on with it
I love it, but I don't think it gets on well with a wife and children.You didn't accidentally quote dark10? I must be seeing things then.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
It has Quincunx AA on the PS3 which is worse than no AA. I was using that as a baseline as many users on this forum play PS3 games.
And I'd be more impressed of a game with Crysis 2 1280x720 running at graphics than a game with Mario 64 graphics running at 4096×3112. I know it's an impossible example, but that's apples to oranges.
You'd have to ask: which one is running smooth? Which one is showing tearing? Which one loads textures in your face? PC games look crisper than console games, run smoother, load textures more properly and have less graphical artifacts all around. They look better in every possible way. It's not only resolution, because if we were talking about resolution, we wouldn't stop at 1080p.
McHuj
Member
I agree. Look at the min spec for Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 for PC: ATI Radeon 38xx or Nvidia 8800 series, CPU: Core 2 Duo.
Until the minimum spec reflects the next gen, we won't be seeing a true generational leap.
No. I meant captain obvious to myself in the context of what I was trying to explain there.
Mr. B Natural
Member
If PC gaming is any indication (and it certainly will be), don't hold your breath. Be prepared for the tech-wars to start all over again and for gaming as a creative outlet to be thrown even further to the wayside.
But hold on, let me pitch it for ya. Maybe then you'll be on board.
Shock in amazement when Nintendo re-releases the same 20 year old crap again but with better graphics and a bad, poorly supported gimmick or two.
Wow your pants off when Microsoft and Sony introduce tired IP sequels "now with better graphics" to the awe of their fanbases.
Be amazed when not a single genre goes anywhere for next gen. "With RPG elements" is still a selling point of innovation.
It will be glorious. Every game supporting 3d vision.
Video games! Now with more diminished returns than ever before! Gee golly.
It will be like it is right now but slightly better looking. Wow, it's so amazing, so impossible to imagine, I temporarily went blind trying to picture it.
How did I do? You in now?
I dare you try those games with such specs :lol
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