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[kaching]

Are there some other twitch games out there with a hint of style or are we doomed? will these games see a return next gen?

Thraktor's list above is a good start. Add arcade racers like Burnout, shmups like Gradius V, hack and slash like Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, rhythm/music games like Dance Dance Revolution, games based on more traditional stuff like poker/card game compilations and other stuff like Eyetoy. Or just stick to the PC that you posted this topic from and welcome yourself to a world of flash-based games like Alien Hominid or N. It's really not that hard to find uncomplicated games nor should you feel particularly confined as a result.

 

[Tony HoTT]

Fuck simple. As long as the interface is well-designed and the complexity clearly communicated to the player, MAKE 'EM AS DEEP AND CONTENT-HEAVY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

Fuck this puzzler and mini-game bullshit.

Do you just pretend to like arcade shooters then?

 

[Amir0x]

There should be both. And there will be both. I hate this whole boring subject that Nintendo has injected into the conversation. If it's an attempt to bring in non-gamers, great, the more the merrier. But I am a gamer and I honestly like both types of games. Some games aren't worth the complexity, but many just allow you to do more than you used to be able to do in a game and that's great. And simplicity is sometimes right, and sometimes feels retrograde and frivolous. A lot of those games in that list that are "innovative and simplistic" are fun. And some are fun for about 2 days and should probably be on a cellphone rather than $30-50 on a dedicated gaming platform.

Quality isn't bound up in either simplicity or complexity exclusively, and I don't know how it can be simply shoehorned into one or the other for the sake of some debate.

Every post in this thread since this one were worthless.

 

[DDayton]

Arrgh....

Game interfaces and controls are getting "too complicated" -- but you can simplify the interface and keep a complex game.

The problem is not that games are "too deep", or full of content, or too mature, or "too complex" -- it's that they are too confusing for new gamers to play.

Streamline the controls and supply a few more "tutorial levels" -- that would solve most of the problems. Let new gamers spend the first level or so getting the hang of the game BEFORE you toss in the next 35 button combinations.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

are games getting too complicated?

Depends.

Are you a gamer? Do you play games all the time? Are games an integral part of your life?

Then the answer is probably no.

Or...

Do you find that as you get older you have less time to play games? Do you have other aspects in your life that are more important than playing games? Do you have jobs or families that take up a lot of your time? Then the answer is probably yes.

 

[Thraktor]

Arrgh....

Game interfaces and controls are getting "too complicated" -- but you can simplify the interface and keep a complex game.

The problem is not that games are "too deep", or full of content, or too mature, or "too complex" -- it's that they too confusing for new gamers to play.

Streamline the controls and supply a few more "tutorial levels" -- that would solve most of the problems. Let new gamers spend the first level or so getting the hang of the game BEFORE you toss in the next 35 button combinations.

Agree 99%. The other 1% being that, while games in general are not necessarily "too complicated", they are getting more and more so, which doesn't bode well for the future. Spot on on the controls, though. I'd go as far as saying that controllers have far too many buttons nowadays, it's making developers too lazy to streamline the game interfaces, and makes it hell for non-gamers. I would really like to have seen one of the big console manufacturers come out with a controller for this coming gen that's just two analog sticks, two analogue triggers and a start button. In reality you could fit nearly every game type to this controller, and with a bit of intelligence on the part of the devs, the games themselves would benefit hugely in terms of intuitiveness. Given what direction the industry's going, though, I couldn't see any of the big ones having the balls to alienate their console from multi-platform releases in this way, so it'll remain just a pipe-dream.

 

[Lazy8s]

Content and depth are two entirely different things. An arcade racer with only a few cars and a few courses could be highly replayable by offering a control model that enables lots of maneuvers, AI opponents who respond to the player's driving with crafty counter-tactics, and track designs with many subtleties for the player to try to take advantage of.

Games need to be made deeper in the possibilities afforded by their play mechanics, not in the number of features they sport. Defining and integrating a more natural physics model for the game world can open these possibilities yet still leave the game just as approachable, and the challenge just as accessible, as before.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Agree 99%. The other 1% being that, while games in general are not necessarily "too complicated", they are getting more and more so, which doesn't bode well for the future. Spot on on the controls, though. I'd go as far as saying that controllers have far too many buttons nowadays, it's making developers too lazy to streamline the game interfaces, and makes it hell for non-gamers.

A dissenting thought from the past. I remember talking with an uncle of mine about Star Fox 64 or something, and he said he wished there were more buttons available. As a casual game player, he said he'd rather have more buttons for specific actions than need to use a combination of buttons.

 

[Teddman]

Get a DS.

 

[Speevy]

Fuck simple. As long as the interface is well-designed and the complexity clearly communicated to the player, MAKE 'EM AS DEEP AND CONTENT-HEAVY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

Fuck this puzzler and mini-game bullshit.

Holy crap. Drinky and I said the same thing.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I think games just throw too much at you at once, that is the problem. The best thought out games give you just a few things at a time, but slowly introduce new elements and things that can be done. They give you enough time to digest it and learn it, but soon it becomes required that you remember it all. It is through this small training that your eventual assortment of options becomes manageable.

Look at the Zelda games, and more recently God of War. They start you with basics, but slowly let you see all that it has to offer all without it seeming overwhelming.


Games just need to be more efficiently designed today I think without them seem like a chore to learn to play.

 

[LakeEarth]

My brother can't play newer type games, he just can't stand them. He only plays sports games now.

 

[ziran]

i think games are becoming too complicated, but much of this complexity is disguised as depth. from last gen, overall, developers haven't delivered on significant gameplay improvements imo, so to disguise this lack of innovation games have become more complicated.

i don't think any developer is capable of delivering what videogames should be today, because the cost is too high. it would take a huge team [approx 200 people] at least 5 years to create the deep complex worthwhile worlds i want to explore and interact with in sequels to last gens offerings. i've been disappointed with nearly every supposed deep gaming experience this gen, and this is something i can't see changing next gen.

 

[Drek]

I'd say its more that developers spend less time focusing on the gameplay and more on the peripherals like story, presentation, etc..

Also, with the increase in hardware complexity many smaller studios probably spend a good bit of development time just getting their games to run stable, which takes away from time they can spend tweaking gameplay specifically.

Take Advent Rising for example, the game isn't that complicated from a gameplay perspective, but would definately turn off a causal gamer because the gameplay could have used a little tweaking to make power/weapon changing and targetting much smoother. Its still a great game from a gameplay perspective however, just really buggy and not polished.

 

[Belfast]

hangin out with the lady tonight and for some reason we started talking about the last games we finished. we finished klonoa 2 together and I finished riddick last year in about a week or 2. we came to the conclusion that games are too damn complicated these days. we're 25 and need games that are simple, have a good story and have great gameplay all rolled into one. Actually we enjoyed katamari as well.

Those games were all packed with the goods yet there are very few games that work with the formula of just being simple and fun. I purchased both RE4 and GTASAx and I think i popped GTA in just to play with all the codes on and RE4(graphically overhyped by the way)is awesome gameplay wise but isnt just something you can just pick up and play for 30 minute spurts and leave satisfied.

Are there some other twitch games out there with a hint of style or are we doomed? will these games see a return next gen?

I'M TOO OLD TO UNDERSTAND ALL THESE NEW FANGLED GAMES, BUT I'M NOT YET OLD ENOUGH TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR GRAPHICS ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD!

 

[Ranger X]

The only thing i wish is that i will still be playing deep and gameplay filled games if i want.
The industry must keep a balance between short/simple games and more involving/deep stuff.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

The only thing i wish is that i will still be playing deep and gameplay filled games if i want.
The industry must keep a balance between short/simple games and more involving/deep stuff.

Exactly. Thank god someone said this.

I am so tired of people at work coming in and(sorry) on here complaining about how short/simple something is before even playing it and dismissing it as crap. So many people see complexity and length as the only indicator of a good game.

Katamary Damacy was short and simple, but was insanely fun because it was so well designed. God of War was moderate length but complex, but all people complain about is "its too short."

Games need the balance of length and complexity to shine. Wyzdom is showing his infinite wisdom there.

 

[Barnimal]

I'M TOO OLD TO UNDERSTAND ALL THESE NEW FANGLED GAMES, BUT I'M NOT YET OLD ENOUGH TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR GRAPHICS ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD!

EH?

 

[Flo_Evans]

Its pretty self-centered to ask the entire industry to make games that cater to your taste.

This forth of july I was at a party, I brought my PSP and let an 8yr old who was playing GBA at the time play with it. He immediatly pressed all the buttons and figured out what they did in seconds. His dad came over and we had a conversation.

Him: "hey is that the new PSP?"
me: yep
him: "damn that thing is cool! I used to play games all the time on my laptop when I traveled"
me: really what did you play?
him: "rouge squadren!"
me: ah yeah thats a good one *cough* hey where are the beers?
him: over there - ya know I would love to get into the newer games, but it takes too much time to learn how to play 'em you know?"

Now this guy was in his 40s, had 2 kids and no longer traveled. It wasn''t that the games where too hard for him to get into, he simply didn't have the free time to devote to it anymore. Me personaly, I like to obsess over stats, collect cars and get a good 200 hours out of a game.

The point is there are games for people like me and people that have no time. Instead of complaning that games are too complex, you could ask for some fun pickup and play suggestions.

 

[flarkminator]

Fuck simple. As long as the interface is well-designed and the complexity clearly communicated to the player, MAKE 'EM AS DEEP AND CONTENT-HEAVY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

Fuck this puzzler and mini-game bullshit.

Holy shit I agree with Drinky.

Fuck yes