Support NeoGAF

[thorns]

Face it, gaming has always been about consoles. In any "best games ever" thread, most likely 99% of the entries will be console games and not handheld games. This is mostly due to the fact that the top quality console games have been ahead of handheld games in terms of richness, visual presentation and general quality. Now, soon with three major handhelds on the market, a lot of resources are going to be devoted to handhelds, which could have been devoted to creating better console games otherwise. Instead, we will get handheld games with either sub-PS2 visuals or sub-N64 visuals (face it or not, graphics is one of the major aspects of gaming, if not the biggest).

I do not really believe that handhelds can offer a game experience PCs or Consoles cannot, except for the advantage of being mobile. By being mobile, you lose processing power compared to non-mobile systems and as such get more limited games (basically you are sacrificing graphics/sound/AI/vastness of the game world etc. for mobility) even though most basic gameplay concepts can easily be replicated on handhelds.

The fact that some of the games I would like to see on consoles is appearing on handhelds is disheartening (Ridge Racer with Xbox live?, among other games). I don't think handhelds deserve to get nearly as much attention as consoles.

 

[neptunes]

"let's keep this clean shall we?"

 

[jarrod]

GPS could add game dynamics not possible on consoles or PC. The social factor of handhelds is enourmous too, and more direct than internet anonymity.

Nintendo should give it up and go handheld only.

 

[Prine]

lol noway

 

[dog$]

Yes, they are.

 

[Mejilan]

Handheld > Console

Ex:

GBA > GCN + PS2 + PC + Xbox

(OK, so of those, I admit I don't own an Xbox, still.)

IMHOOC

 

[captainbiotch]

I could really care less. The only time I enjoy playing on consoles is when I have someone to play with. I'm pretty much burned out on the single player experience. GBA supports my low attention span for games by allowing me to watch a movie and move around the house while I play. I'd take a portable nintendo system over any console.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Face it, gaming has always been about consoles. In any "best games ever" thread, most likely 99% of the entries will be console games and not handheld games. This is mostly due to the fact that the top quality console games have been ahead of handheld games in terms of richness, visual presentation and general quality. Now, soon with three major handhelds on the market, a lot of resources are going to be devoted to handhelds, which could have been devoted to creating better console games otherwise.

I doubt the home consoles will get any less attention.

Instead, we will get handheld games with either sub-PS2 visuals or sub-N64 visuals (face it or not, graphics is one of the major aspects of gaming, if not the biggest).

I guess I'll choose "or not". As long as it isn't less than 30fps and the gameplays solid, which is the case with a lot of handheld games, then graphics don't mean shit to a great many people. Pokemon has been thriving in its sub-16bit glory for quite some time now...

I do not really believe that handhelds can offer a game experience PCs or Consoles cannot, except for the advantage of being mobile. By being mobile, you lose processing power compared to non-mobile systems and as such get more limited games (basically you are sacrificing graphics/sound/AI/vastness of the game world etc. for mobility) even though most basic gameplay concepts can easily be replicated on handhelds.

Basically what we're saying here is that the best mobile technology is not as good or as fast (or whatever) as the best non-mobile equivilent. What would you propose? No mobility at all?

The fact that some of the games I would like to see on consoles is appearing on handhelds is disheartening (Ridge Racer with Xbox live?, among other games). I don't think handhelds deserve to get nearly as much attention as consoles.

I feel for you on that front, but it's not handhelds or handheld gamers at fault when developers do crappy things. I suggest everybody ceases any lemon sucking on things like this, buys a DS or PSP, enjoys the N64 graphics upwards along with the WiFi multiplayer, and possible online connectivity... and maybe XBL Ridge Racer will come along with time?

 

[Kon Tiki]

"Handhelds suck cuzz they aint portable consoles...wahhhhh wahhhhh."

 

[Kobun Heat]

1) The "resources" used to create portable games are often made up mostly of young (youngish, anyway) staff members who are starting out their careers by doing less complex work. If you hire a guy for 30K a year to redraw Final Fantasy III sprites it doesn't mean you could just yank him off of that and have him start doing 3D models for FFXII. Or Ridge Racer on the DS vs. Xbox, for that matter.

2) Portable games can make a lot of profit relative to console games. This goes for ports as well as all-new titles, because the dev cost is just that much cheaper, both in straight dollar amounts AND as a percentage of the retail price. Publishers can then use that money to finance console games.

 

[dog$]

I suggest everybody ceases any lemon sucking on things like this, buys a DS or PSP, enjoys the N64 graphics upwards along with the WiFi multiplayer, and possible online connectivity... and maybe XBL Ridge Racer will come along with time?

With very few exceptions, any exclusively-developed handheld game stays a handheld game series if further iterations are made. The two exceptions I can name off the top of my head are Dragon Quest Monsters 1&2 and Black/Matrix 0.

3 GBA 2D Castlevanias and no new console ones.
River City Ransom and Double Dragon EX come out, and no console port or futher development is even rumored.
Wouldn't Gyakuten Saiban be something that Capcom could turn into a staple console series? You'd think so, considering how much hype the series continues to have at present, but they're not even considering it.

Buying inferior, proprietary handheld software in hope of giving the development company more support and lead to future home console releases is still mostly wishful thinking.

Even if Ridge Racer DS sells 5 million copies I don't really think Ridge Racer Live will even be considered by anyone at Namco.

As I say every time, I don't think handhelds should have proprietary software. All of us shouldn't have to buy the games we like twice just for the "privilege" of being able to play one on a home console and the other anywhere else.

I want Lumines, but I shouldn't have to make the choice between playing Lumines on some shitty handheld or not playing it at all.

 

[ara]

this depends on what you value in games. If you value technology, then obviously the answer is yes. If you value the actual gameplay mechanics (i.e. ludological aspects), then this is true only inasmuch as execution of the game rules are dependent on relatively high technology.


Although you need a certain amount of technology to make certain games, some of the best games did not depend on high technology to be realized. Of course what falls into that category is open for debate, but games like Mr. Driller, Tetris, Katamari Damacy, Puyo Puyo, Psyvariar, bemani games, etc. etc. could have all been created several years before they came into existance. Of course each would not have looked as nice or smooth if that happened, but the idea is that games are more restricted by the ability and creativity of the designer than by technology.

There is so much territory unexplored in games, even in the low-tech arena in handhelds.

 

[dog$]

games like Tetris, Katamari Damacy, bemani games, etc. etc. could have all been created several years before they came into existance.

Disagree.

Tetris was made in what, 1985? The first one had CGA graphics for chrissakes Can't get much earlier than that.

The main reason why Katamari Damacy has any initial appeal is because it's able to convey a sense of dimension and scope which I don't think would have been possible to do even from the PS1/SS platforms.

And the Bemani games require sound hardware capable of simulating "CD Quality" music as well as have enough memory to hold an assortment of sound clips in RAM. I don't think this would have been possible with previous-generation CD-based hardware systems (ie Sega CD, TG16CD).

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Well, I really disagree with the author of this thread.

I'm busy at work so I can't really back my sentiments at this moment, but I truly feel the GBA is the best system this "generation". If anything, consoles are hampering the development of handhelds.

I'll take a portable Advance Wars 2 on my SP at night with the lights off before I pass out any day over pretty much anything else out there. Until...A portable Final Fantasy III comes around, of course

 

[thorns]

I could really care less. The only time I enjoy playing on consoles is when I have someone to play with. I'm pretty much burned out on the single player experience. GBA supports my low attention span for games by allowing me to watch a movie and move around the house while I play. I'd take a portable nintendo system over any console.

So, the future of gaming should appeal to those people with short attention spans? Most games are already heading in that direction, which can be seen by the decline in RPGs and Adventure games. In my opinion, in most cases console games offer a longer lasting, more satisfying experience than fast food like handheld games. Especially PSP seems to emphasize this as you're not meant to play a game for more than 2 hours? (battery life)

 

[thorns]

I doubt the home consoles will get any less attention.

I guess I'll choose "or not". As long as it isn't less than 30fps and the gameplays solid, which is the case with a lot of handheld games, then graphics don't mean shit to a great many people. Pokemon has been thriving in its sub-16bit glory for quite some time now...

And it does mean a lot to a lot of people, looking at the sales of games like Doom 3. Pokemon appeals mainly to children, which are probably less discerning and 2D games look good in general anyway.

Basically what we're saying here is that the best mobile technology is not as good or as fast (or whatever) as the best non-mobile equivilent. What would you propose? No mobility at all?

No, but I would prefer that experiences better suited to consoles stay on consoles, and handhelds can have their own unique games (such as wario ware, tetris etc) that would not make sense on a console, thus allowing better games on each platform.

I mean who wouldn't have preferred a 480p 2D castlevania with a 5.1 soundtrack to the GBA version? I guess it just needs to be proven that there is a market for that kind of stuff on consoles.

 

[P90]

GBA + DS + PSP>>GC + Xbox + PS2

Handhelds come November and on will enable gamers to have gaming experiences that cannot be done on home consoles. This gen of consoles is in the rapid decline of obsolecence.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I mean who wouldn't have preferred a 480p 2D castlevania with a 5.1 soundtrack to the GBA version? I guess it just needs to be proven that there is a market for that kind of stuff on consoles.

It would never happen, handheld versions or not.

 

[Meier]

Considering the fact that the GBA SP is arguably the best console this gen, I'd say no. Handheld games compliment consoles more than they hamper them.

 

[Miburou]

Handheld games cost far less to make and require a much smaller team, so their effect on console development is pretty small.

This is due to several reasons, such as the larger number of ports and remakes on handhelds, the lower attach rate compared to consoles, and the fact that they're less powerful than consoles. Even the PSP, which in terms of power is in the same league as PS2, has been mentioned to have lower budgets for games compared to console games.

Look at most developers, and you'll see most of their efforts are still directed towards console games (in terms of budgets and team members, not number of games).

 

[jarrod]

With very few exceptions, any exclusively-developed handheld game stays a handheld game series if further iterations are made. The two exceptions I can name off the top of my head are Dragon Quest Monsters 1&2 and Black/Matrix 0.

Off the top of my head there's also Kirby, Seiken Densetsu, SaGa, Kururin, Wario Ware, Yu-Gi-Oh... I'm sure there are others.

3 GBA 2D Castlevanias and no new console ones.

I doubt KCET would greenlight any new 2D console Castlevanias... they wouldn't allow Iga to do that Rondo of Blood remake he wanted. Besides, there's been a new console Castlevania anyway.

River City Ransom and Double Dragon EX come out, and no console port or futher development is even rumored.

Million couldn't have afforded console projects, it was GBA games or nothing most likely. And new GBA projects have been rumored actually (World Cup Soccer & Downtown Samurai).

I want Lumines, but I shouldn't have to make the choice between playing Lumines on some shitty handheld or not playing it at all.

The grass is always greener... multiple platforms always have that effect, regardless of console or handheld marketplace. I'd like to play Panzer Orta but I shouldn't have to make the choice between playing it on some shitty Xbox or not playing it at all... I guess.

 

[Shogmaster]

1) The "resources" used to create portable games are often made up mostly of young (youngish, anyway) staff members who are starting out their careers by doing less complex work. If you hire a guy for 30K a year to redraw Final Fantasy III sprites it doesn't mean you could just yank him off of that and have him start doing 3D models for FFXII. Or Ridge Racer on the DS vs. Xbox, for that matter.

2) Portable games can make a lot of profit relative to console games. This goes for ports as well as all-new titles, because the dev cost is just that much cheaper, both in straight dollar amounts AND as a percentage of the retail price. Publishers can then use that money to finance console games.

And that goes right out the window with PSP, don't it?

 

[krypt0nian]

I am FAR more excited about the DS offerings than most things on console coming up.

I'm usually 50/50 on consoles/handhelds but right now I'm in the grip of well deserved hype.

 

[dog$]

Besides, there's been a new console Castlevania anyway.

Well, that's why I specifically wrote '2D' in that instance... I also thought I read somewhere that the disappointing sales of the first PS Drac remake, the X68K one, hindered further iterations there.

I'd like to play Panzer Orta but I shouldn't have to make the choice between playing it on some shitty Xbox or not playing it at all... I guess.

Heh, you don't sound really convinced in that argument
And besides, I don't think you should have to make that choice either - then again, you don't really see many people saying XB development is hindering the GC/PS2 (usually they say PS2 is holding the XB down).
No matter how illogical it seems, the console/handheld divide is just where I've drawn my line in the sand. I've got plenty of stuff to play otherwise so I'm not going to really go out of my way to complain about handheld development (as much as I have in months and years past), but I'm just providing supporting fodder for the initial argument.

 

[Kobun Heat]

And that goes right out the window with PSP, don't it?

In large part, but not entirely.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

. And new GBA projects have been rumored actually (World Cup Soccer & Downtown Samurai).

Oh god...Are you serious?!?!?!?!?!?!

World Cup Soccer!!!!!! ....they better move that to DS, to support one cart wireless multi play. Oh, that would kick all flavors of ass!!!!

Hope it pans out!

 

[Shogmaster]

In large part, but not entirely.

Maybe they are thinking that since PS3 development to PSP development will be a much bigger gap than PS2 to PSP, things will be balanced enough in couple of years..

 

[isamu]

The fact that some of the games I would like to see on consoles is appearing on handhelds is disheartening (Ridge Racer with Xbox live?, among other games). I don't think handhelds deserve to get nearly as much attention as consoles.

+1

To say that I agree with this post...would be an understatement.

 

[Socreges]

I would MUCH rather have developers like R&D1 and IntSys developing for the Gamecube, instead of the GBA/DS.

Nonetheless, there's a market for handhelds. And that's all there is to it.

 

[Cimarron]

*bangs head against the wall* DIFFERENT MARKET!!! Why do folks insist on trying to put consoles and handhelds together? I certainly hope that handhelds don't hamper the console market.

 

[DDayton]

I think the console market benefits from the handheld market, really. First, the handheld market DOES tend to rake in more "budget-conscious" gamers (read that as you will), who might later go on to the more expensive consoles -- it helps build the userbase, if you will.

Secondly, there are many kinds of games that might never see the light of day on a television-based console again, yet can easily be found on the GBA. The GBA is keeping the game market from becoming just GTA clones and FPS, and does much more good than it does "evil".

As I say every time, I don't think handhelds should have proprietary software. All of us shouldn't have to buy the games we like twice just for the "privilege" of being able to play one on a home console and the other anywhere else.

This is rarely true... almost all GBA games I can think of are unique when compared to their console counterparts; that is, even if you buy two games from the same series, each game is a different experience. I'd never buy the exactly the same game for both my current generation home console and my GBA/DS, but I have no problems buying both a console Castlevania and a GBA Castlevania.

 

[captainbiotch]

So, the future of gaming should appeal to those people with short attention spans? Most games are already heading in that direction, which can be seen by the decline in RPGs and Adventure games. In my opinion, in most cases console games offer a longer lasting, more satisfying experience than fast food like handheld games. Especially PSP seems to emphasize this as you're not meant to play a game for more than 2 hours? (battery life)

There are markets for all different tastes in gaming. I've probably put more hours into FFTA and Leaf Green than my entire console library from this generation, I just don't have the time or the patience to sit infront of a tv, wait for loading times and navigate through complicated menus and cutscenes and all the other bullshit that console gamers love. I care little for graphics or surround sound or high definition support. Infact those things seem to appeal to a small section of the hardcore gamer crowd. The problem with many gamers on this forum is that they think every great game or system has to appeal to them or its worthless. If the cube or the gba or the psp doesnt appeal to you, forget about it and enjoy the games and systems that do.

 

[Subitai]

Depends on what you like.

However, I will say that most handheld games are much more than what was on consoles in some form.

The multiplayer part of handheld gaming is really miniscule compared to what happens on consoles.

 

[thorns]

The "small budget" games appearing on handhelds does not mean the games provide better experience on handhelds than they would provide on a console otherwise.

Can anyone say that the 2d Castlevanias wouldn't have been better on a PS2/Xbox/GC with 480p graphics and surround sound, rather than the small gba ones? I don't think the cost would have been much larger.

There are games appearing such as Alien Hominid which is basically all done by one person and looks much better than any GBA game. I hope this game succeeds to show the developers that there is some sort of market for that kind of "low budget" stuff on consoles.

I applaud xbox live arcade for this, because it allows for an outlet of "indie" games that wouldn't have otherwise possible as full releases. Of course xbox live has a limited appeal, but it's increasing.

Once next gen hits full swing, the PSP and DS will most likely still be around, and just thinking what 's possible with the next gen machines will make the handhelds look very dated. Xenon boasts 3 3.5Ghz cpus which simply have tremendous computational power (more so than any high end pc), the complexity of AI and physics that can be created with such a processor will simply be insane, not the mention the great advance in graphics we will see. The current PC developers can't assume such a high CPU baselevel thus we haven't seen those kinds of games on the PC yet. It would be sad to see some very talented developers working on a handheld instead of trying to realize the full potential of the next gen consoles.