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Are Sony actually going to change the PS3 controller?
- Thread starter psycho_snake
- Start date
TTP said:
1. pushing/pulling - it's all the same. It's exerting a force. Your argument is pure semantics and doesn't make the physics involved any different. So no, they aren't two different moves.
2. I can't agree with this at all.
3. I've played GT3. I ended up using the right joystick as my throttle. That's how much analog buttons suck
4. I have, conclusion - they blow.
TTP said:
rayne, you assume he's joking, I'll address the issues. That way we have both bases covered
1) You say pulling a trigger, I say depressing a lever. Just like I do in my car.
2) Feedback sure. I am aware of the pressure increasing as I exert it. However, I have no fucking clue what the PS2 is feeling, and whether I am at 0%, 50% or 100%. So just to make sure, I'll press extra hard and get thumb ache. A physical movement like the xbox triggers has enough travel for me to be able to judge based on distance.
3) I know how it works, I'm not a retard. Its just not something that provides me enough feedback during a game. I'm a little busy looking at the apex or another car to be watching a bar graph. Its not Tiger Woods.
4) I did and it was shit.
5) right analog stick is also shit for gas/brake, as you can't do both at once. The only people that use that are PS2 players who realise the analog buttons are shitter and have no other choice.
6) Racing games are a big section of the market and I think reasonable thought shoudl be given to good controls for them on a standard controller. There are lots of other standard buttons for other stuff.
imastalker co.
Banned
ok, so it's agreed then. GameCube = best racing game controller regardless of whether you like to use face buttons, or shoulder buttons.
Gek54 said:
Are you talking about PS2 games specifically, because this is the only current gen console without the triggers. GC and Xbox both have them.
All the Xbox racers I know use the triggers.
I remember when I owned my PS2 and GT3, I was pissed I didn't have triggers.
It's just not acceptable IMO.
I agree that triggers are better than the analog buttons, the 2nd analog stick is the best gas/brake combo on the DS2. Of course there is the problem of left foot braking, but I find the extra precision of the 2nd analog more than makes up for the split seconds you gain from left foot braking.... of course this is all when I am too lazy to set up the DFP.
phantomile co. said:ok, so it's agreed then. GameCube = best racing game controller regardless of whether you like to use face buttons, or shoulder buttons.
Uhm, the GC controller doesn't have analog buttons, does it? Either way, its triggers are garbage.
I really can't believe people are arguing that the DS2's analog buttons are superior to the Controller-S's analog triggers when it comes to racing games. It's mind-boggling. The triggers allow you to be about 100 times more precise.
imastalker co.
Banned
dude, the GameCube has the best anolog shoulder buttons out of any system ever made. they offer more functionality to boot. not to mention they're more comfortable, yada yada yada, it's a better controller for racing games.
Gek54 said:
possibly, but then I'm not playing a 'see if you can make this bar go up and down' game, I'm looking at the racing line.
I'm sure Sony thought they were a good idea at the time, but I also hope they realise their mistake and rectify it for PS3. Racing games deserve triggers, and PS3 has lots of racing games.
I'm perfectly happy to just not buy any PS3 racing games - Xbox 360 will have good ones too. Do you hear me Sony?!
phantomile co. said:
Really? I find them less comfortable. My main complaint is that they're completely surrounded by plastic. I don't like how you feel the edge of the casing when they're pushed completely in. I much prefer the Xbox ones that function more as actual triggers instead of gigantic buttons with a lot of clearance.
SolidSnakex
Member
Flo_Evans said:>>>> any gamepad with analog buttons/triggers/spinners
And you win. If you really want to play racing games on the PS2, you own that.
imastalker co.
Banned
:lol surely you're not talking about GX.Flo_Evans said:
anyways, Racing Evolution, Blue Storm, and F-Zero all made great use of the controller. in any case, yes, the GameCube desperately needed more racing games.
SolidSnakex said:
While I agree that that particular wheel is awesome, youll also get exhausted using it for a while.. really you cant use it more than an hour and get incredible tired... Besides I think a pad like the xbox one probably is easier to use in a racer anyway, not more fun though. Also that wheel is the only thing I can use if I am going manual gear switching, auto just doesnt work for me with a wheel.
Heh, someone at MS will deserve to lose their scalp if the 360 doesn't have a force feedback wheel. I still find it comical that the fucking Cube got a feedback wheel while the XBox went empty...it's fucking embarassing.
:lol :lol :lol I needed that laugh...
Heh, that would be accurate if the XBox didn't exist. Alas, it does. Plus gear shifting and handbraking is smooth as silk on the XBox controllers, something I'm not sure the Cube's oddball face layout provides.
Burnout barely qualifies as a racing series.
Bullshit. I play 'em regardless, but no one should need a wheel to play a racing game...it's a luxury item, and is priced as such. And as I already said before, I've got nowhere to use one anyway.
TTP said:
:lol :lol :lol I needed that laugh...
phantomile co. said:ok, so it's agreed then. GameCube = best racing game controller regardless of whether you like to use face buttons, or shoulder buttons.
Heh, that would be accurate if the XBox didn't exist. Alas, it does. Plus gear shifting and handbraking is smooth as silk on the XBox controllers, something I'm not sure the Cube's oddball face layout provides.
Dr_Cogent said:It has 2 Burnout games
Burnout barely qualifies as a racing series.
SolidSnakex said:
Bullshit. I play 'em regardless, but no one should need a wheel to play a racing game...it's a luxury item, and is priced as such. And as I already said before, I've got nowhere to use one anyway.
mrklaw said:rayne, you assume he's joking, I'll address the issues. That way we have both bases covered
1) You say pulling a trigger, I say depressing a lever. Just like I do in my car.
2) Feedback sure. I am aware of the pressure increasing as I exert it. However, I have no fucking clue what the PS2 is feeling, and whether I am at 0%, 50% or 100%. So just to make sure, I'll press extra hard and get thumb ache. A physical movement like the xbox triggers has enough travel for me to be able to judge based on distance.
3) I know how it works, I'm not a retard. Its just not something that provides me enough feedback during a game. I'm a little busy looking at the apex or another car to be watching a bar graph. Its not Tiger Woods.
4) I did and it was shit.
5) right analog stick is also shit for gas/brake, as you can't do both at once. The only people that use that are PS2 players who realise the analog buttons are shitter and have no other choice.
6) Racing games are a big section of the market and I think reasonable thought shoudl be given to good controls for them on a standard controller. There are lots of other standard buttons for other stuff.
1) Yeah, but u do that in two different ways there. It's not with semantics that you get past a door that says PULL by pushing it. However u see it, they are two different moves, one closer to the actual act of pushing a pedal than the other.
2) The same can be said about the triggers. In both cases you just "guess" or approximate. I dont know which games you have tried out but you dont really have to push the button that hard and keep it that hard pressed to be sure you are 100%. It's clearly inexperience that leads to that behaviour. GT4 and MotoGP have same of the best calibrated pressure detection. On a more general level all you need to "get" the pressure sensitive controls is some practice. Your body will learn to apply the proper pressure as much as it already does whenever you are grabbing an egg or a controller or whatever. You dont really need bars for that. You just do that intuitively. And that's what happens to me with the analogue buttons. It has just become second nature
3) Again, practice helps. In racing games you can just watch at your revs meter if u feel unsure but anyway I strongly doubt you need that kind of precision when giving gas or breaking. A good communication by the physics also helps (GT4 is perfect in that regard). I should also add triggers require two fingers, while analogue buttons need just one (which is a big plus to me).
4) I did and it was strange at first but now it just feels perfect.
Why do you think I'm defending it? It's not like I'm an alien or whatever.5) We have been used to push buttons to accelerate since the beginning of videogaming and having the pressure sensitivity applied to them now it's like having the best of both worlds to me. I'm sorry if I like them so much but this should at least make you wonder instead of laughing (not talking to u mrklaw)
6) Just out of curiosity, may I ask you (and all the guys who laugh at the DS2) where you learned to use the triggers for driving games? Dreamcast or Xbox?
Gamecube analog sticks make my knuckles hurt after long usage. It might be because in some of the games I play I'm required to press them in all the way rather than just slightly pressing them in to activate a move. The Gamecube triggers need more feeback imo (for reasons other than the one mentioned above).phantomile co. said:
The Xbox Triggers are far too sensitive though. I always accidentally press them when the controller's resting on my leg or something.
Not at all. The analog sticks are awesome in games like MGS (I hope the DS3 has analog buttons for MGS4 alone!) But in games like Gran Turismo, it really is annoying not being able to tell whether you're just not pressing the button hard enough, or if your car just has really bad acceleration. In GT3 I always wanted to just turn the analog acceleration off. Triggers remedy this problem, because you can easily tell when they're pressed all the way in.TTP said:
edit: TTP, you make such a big deal about why PUSHING the analog button is so much more intuitive that PULLING the triggers, yet in your other points, you say repeatedly that with practice you will get used to the analog buttons.
The triggers are no different. It doesn't take long at all to get use to pulling rather than pushing, and in the end, you don't even realize that you are pulling instead of pushing. It took like 15 minutes using the triggers in Rallysport for me start loving the new method of driving controls.
SolidSnakex
Member
Shinobi said:
With FF wheels starting to be released I think some racing games are starting to become like Bmeani games. Sure you can play DDR without the dance pad, but why would you want to? With GT4 Polyphony designed the game around the DFP. Now with Sega Rally 2006 you've got this
Several other racing games on the PS2 have been built with the DFP in mind also. So its getting to the point where you can play the game one way, or the way the developers intended it to be played.
Sumasshu said:
Er... I know. I'm just defending the analogue buttons here not attacking the triggers. I'm not saying triggers "blow" nor that 'cos you have to pull them they "suck". Of course with practice you get over the pull/push thing but yet it still feels more intuitive (which means: "I dont need practice to do that") to me to push, that's it.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I agree. The shoulder buttons on the GC controller are the best, they work really well for most games and they must be perfect for racing games, even better than triggers.phantomile co. said:
TTP said:
:lol And excuses like this come from people who refuse to admit that triggers shits on Sony's sorry ass band aid. Hey, if blowjobbing your Soup Bone 2 makes you feel good, who am I to get in the way.
SolidSnakex said:With FF wheels starting to be released I think some racing games are starting to become like Bmeani games. Sure you can play DDR without the dance pad, but why would you want to? With GT4 Polyphony designed the game around the DFP. Now with Sega Rally 2006 you've got this
Several other racing games on the PS2 have been built with the DFP in mind also. So its getting to the point where you can play the game one way, or the way the developers intended it to be played.
I wouldn't want to play DDR anyway, so that takes care of that problem. I play fighters with controllers, even though joystics are (generally) the preffered method. Of course I suck with controllers or joysticks, so why create a needless expense? With racers I'm more then good with controllers, and like I said I don't have a place to use a wheel. Plus the force feedback wheel costs $200 Canadian up here. That's three or four games, maybe more. It's different for other people, but I'm not exactly rolling in coin.
My point is, triggers shits on analog buttons, and the option should be offered. They're simply more natural and far more comfortable. No reasonable excuse can be made not to have them, as TTP has comically showed.
That Sega Rally wheel does look hot though...if it had a handbrake extension, I'd probably become a hypocrite and splurge. Wouldn't be the first time. :lol
You know, I have to post in this thread if only to say that Sony is a singular entity. "Is Sony actually", not "Are"!
Oh and on topic, I kind of like the PS3 controller. An unorthodox shape, but with a few tweaks I'll definitely like it. They'll most definitely change it though.
Oh and on topic, I kind of like the PS3 controller. An unorthodox shape, but with a few tweaks I'll definitely like it. They'll most definitely change it though.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
oh for fucks sake, half of page 2 was about the title of this thread! We dont need to hear it againjman2050 said:
.As for the controller, the shape doesnt really bother me that much, its just that it looks rather uncomfortable. One thing that really annoys me is the size of the analogue sticks look very small compared to DS2 anologue sticks. The bars of the controller also look very big and since the anologue sticks are small and are so far above the bars, it looks like ti will be uncomfirtable to play with. It would have been ideal for me if they just stuck with the dualshock since the dualshock was my favourite controller this gen, but its not necessary. Although I really don't see the current controller feeling comfortable, its probably not as bad as Im imagining. If what theat person said about there being changes is true, then my worries are slightly eased, but what exactly do you think they will change?
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Well then what changes would you like to see Cogent?Dr_Cogent said:
psycho_snake said:
psycho,
Well, I can't judge feel from looks, but I would love the PS3 controllers to have a more tactile feel on the joysticks instead of the smooth feel they have on the DS.
I wouldn't be too worried about the looks of it though. You have to hold it in your hand. Just like we have to hold the Revo controller in our hands before we can really tell if it's good or not. Both may be great controllers. The thing also is, you may love the new PS3 controller while I may not, or visa versa. Your best bet would probably to read impressions, play at a kiosk if possible or play someones PS3 before you purchase it if you are worried about how the controller feel will for you.
I think it's the same as books - don't judge it by its cover. Sony has said they are going to change it, but talk is cheap. It may be exactly the same or something even radically different. The proof will be in the pudding as they say.
SolidSnakex
Member
Shinobi said:
I don't disagree with that at all. Out of those choices triggers are better. I'm just saying overall the way to go is with the DFP or another FF wheel.
Shinobi said:
You could just use the gear shift as your handbrake, and use the paddleshifts for your gears.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I can only agree with this. Buttons also have the added benefit of not giving me the cramps in my index fingers, which triggers always do after prolonged use. The button-doomsayers and trigger-worshippers can suck it.Gek54 said:
I'm sure you can tell what's good for yourself easily, but the realization that same thing may not be good for others seems to be escaping you.Dr_Cogent said:
That's a matter of programming. The analog buttons can act as digital buttons if programmer wants them so. Some games can benefit from analog buttons sensitivity, regardless of triggers.
Marconelly said:
I am very confident if you did a poll, more would agree that they prefer triggers. Also, I don't really care if you like the analog buttons. Knock yourself out loving them - it doesn't bother me one bit. Remember, it's TTP telling me what I should like. I'm telling him, for me - it's BS. Analog buttons suck. I never told him that he shouldn't have an opinion until he tried something, he pulled that bs on me - when he didn't even know that I have actually tried it.
Marconelly said:
Thank you Captain Obvious. Unfortunately, some dev houses have decided to not make them act as digital buttons, hence sometimes my button presses are not read as I expect them to be.
Xellotah said:
You don't really have a choice on the DS. You either use the right analog stick, or the buttons.
The answer, people obviously use both, but I would bet most Xbox users use only the triggers - unless of course if they don't have the option like in Mercenaries where the gas is the A button.
Unfortunately for you, MS has decided otherwise on the analog buttons. We shall see what Sony does.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Wait a sec, all the pads made for Xbox have analog buttons, much like DS2 on PS2. Is it actually confirmed they are changing that to digital on Xbox 360 pads? I've heard that somewhere but never found out for sure.Dr_Cogent said:
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
:lol @ the thread. Sony can do no wrong. Analog buttons wooooot!
SolidSnakex said:
That's a good point. How does that knee locking device work? And how effective is it?
Xellotah said:
I'm saying analog buttons are a shit substitute for triggers. It's basically relative...on they're own they work, but triggers are simply superior.
Of course no one with brains has said both can't be offered on the same controller (*GASP!!*), though you'd think even that would be a cardinal sin the way some idiots are talking.
Xellotah said:
I've tried using the right stick for gas/brake, and that feels even more whack then the analog buttons...just not comfortable.
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