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[Sorian]

And what lie would that be? And I've not dropped scum hunting at all, in fact I'm doing it right now. Look at that.

I like how your argument against me is exactly the same as my argument against you vis a vis our top targets (eachother) and yet somehow according to your logic your's is stronger, despite the fact that I have a proveable claimed role.

The lie of the 4 voters vs. the 4 people in a cage match. But that was just a "mistake"

And yeah, if I wanted to make up a role only town could have, I could be provable too. There's one thing missing from your argument that mine has though. I didn't have a cop out for blood on me for an entire day phase. That usually means something.

Seeing how people reacted to my roleclaim in the first place, it'd be best not to talk too much of it. I will say that I could've done something last night phase, but a private matter prevented me from doing so. I apologize.

I'm nervous about how this round will end, but I still have my optimism.

So I was thinking about this in the shower. Fine, you didn't get a chance to take action last night, I've seen town do that before so whatever, but what possible reason do you have to be holding back N1 and N2 targets at this point other than you don't want to get caught in a lie or confused?

In the same vein, AB must be writing a novel because he said a post was coming hours ago.

 

[Timeaisis]

The lie of the 4 voters vs. the 4 people in a cage match. But that was just a "mistake"

And yeah, if I wanted to make up a role only town could have, I could be provable too. There's one thing missing from your argument that mine has though. I didn't have a cop out for blood on me for an entire day phase. That usually means something.



So I was thinking about this in the shower. Fine, you didn't get a chance to take action last night, I've seen town do that before so whatever, but what possible reason do you have to be holding back N1 and N2 targets at this point other than you don't want to get caught in a lie or confused?

In the same vein, AB must be writing a novel because he said a post was coming hours ago.

I clarified it as soon as I was informed about it. I'm not sure what else I can say. I can prove it's true, but you refuse to let me.

 

[Verelios]

Seeing how people reacted to my roleclaim in the first place, it'd be best not to talk too much of it. I will say that I could've done something last night phase, but a private matter prevented me from doing so. I apologize.

I'm nervous about how this round will end, but I still have my optimism.

Doctor, doctor, please tell us what you did N1 and N2, or at least give us something more concrete to work with. That much should be possible even if you didn't do anything last night.

 

[Sorian]

I clarified it as soon as I was informed about it. I'm not sure what else I can say. I can prove it's true, but you refuse to let me.

Ignoring that elephant in the room. But yes, I know you clarified it as soon as you were informed, that's not my main worry, we've had this happen in gafia before too. It's the fact that you were scummy before that, a claim doesn't mean much in the face of that. You haven't in any way acted pro town this whole game, you've jumped from one tunnel to the next and went wherever your bet odds at getting a lynch were.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

I don't mind joker winning if it gets town closer to getting scum.

So If the joker is a neutral poison, or jack of all trades, then I want to eliminate who he poisoned.

By that logic, since flush died lightning rod the poison away from fat4all, I will.

vote: fat4all

It sounds like flush could lightning rod and negate targeting to him every night if he wanted. Does anyone else read that too?

 

[Fat4all]

What's everyone elses opinion on this Sorian vs. Timeaisis situation, generally speaking?

It basically comes down to either letting Time activate their ability at night, or trusting Sorian in thinking it's just a gambit or some kind. Both arguments come down to early reads against one another/eludings to abilities before the full reveal of Times claim. If we let Time through to tomorrow and no ability activates, that would likely lead to a majority of votes against them, even if they do claim that they were blocked in some way. Personally, I'm not sure what real damage letting Time through to tomorrow does for us. The only other neutral faction we are currently aware of is attempting to kill a scum, and if Time is scum we would likely know right away tomorrow.

The argument for lynching Time comes down to how much weight you hold in Sorians reads vs your own, and if you think this is a scum gambit happening here that can be stopped early. If Time flips town at the end of the day it would certainly put Sorians feet to the fire tomorrow, so I dunno if they would go this hard against Time unless they were either convinced at Times scum leanings, or that as a scum they could talk their way out of getting lynched tomorrow.

To be frank, I'm not quite sure where I stand between them at the moment, I've never had strong reads against either even though both have been active in most important conversations in the game to some degree.

 

[Sorian]

I don't mind joker winning if it gets town closer to getting scum.

So If the joker is a neutral poison, or jack of all trades, then I want to eliminate who he poisoned.

By that logic, since flush died lightning rod the poison away from fat4all, I will.

vote: fat4all

It sounds like flush could lightning rod and negate targeting to him every night if he wanted. Does anyone else read that too?

He was only two shot. Someone else already misread it too, AB I think.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

He was only two shot. Someone else already misread it too, AB I think.

His first post about being poisoned and fat4all, indicated he was 1-shot. Now his role gets posted and it's two-shot(thanks BTW), and he died last night.

Trying to get the order of events right, especially if someone else gets poisoned.

 

[Sorian]

His first post about being poisoned and fat4all, indicated he was 1-shot. Now his role gets posted and it's two-shot(thanks BTW), and he died last night.

Trying to get the order of events right, especially if someone else gets poisoned.

Presumably he acted last night as well but I don't think he foreshadowed that action (didn't actually look because he didn't stop a kill which would have been the main pro to it) so something to keep in mind if anyone think he's might have screwed with their result.

 

[Timeaisis]

I'm sure he tried to activate it last night. But wouldn't it not trigger since he got NKed?

 

[Fat4all]

I'm sure he tried to activate it last night. But wouldn't it not trigger since he got NKed?

Deaths at night occur last I think.

The probably would of been able to use their ability one last time if it was available.

 

[Sorian]

I'm sure he tried to activate it last night. But wouldn't it not trigger since he got NKed?

Deaths are always the last thing that happened and he didn't really get NK'd in the typical sense, he died from the earlier poisoning. Its unclear if he was immune to being roleblocked though, I don't think anyone would have bothered, his power already made little sense and seemed a bit OP so one shot was completely believeable.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 4 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Timeaisis (3)
Sorian 2090
Flame_AC 2203
Faddy 2294

Fat4all (2)
Fireblend 2318
Zippedpinhead 2355

Nudull (1)
acohrs 2230

Sorian (1)
Timeaisis 2165

Verelios (0): Faddy 2199 2294

CCS (0): Timeaisis 2159 2165

No active vote for Day 4: AbsolutBro, Bronx-Man, CCS, Fat4all, Lone_Prodigy, Nudull, Penguin, Verelios

Day 4 Postcount: AbsolutBro 4, acohrs 7, Bronx-Man 9, CCS 16, Faddy 40, Fat4all 25, Fireblend 16, Flame_AC 18, Lone_Prodigy 6, Nudull 2, Penguin 10, Sorian 75, Timeaisis 41, Verelios 15, Zippedpinhead 9


Day 4 ends:

Automated vote tally here

8 votes for majority

 

[acohrs]

Sorian is one of my top town reads so not going to join that wagon.

Timeasis, I haven't been able to get a read on since the start of the game. Don't think they're lying as nobody has counterclaimed and the only counterargument is that some don't believe them. I think we shouldn't lynch Time today and give him the night to activate his PR. If he doesn't then he's scum lying about his PR and we lynch him. If not, then we get to test out this cage match and see if we can get some scum to bend under the pressure. We're not at MYLO so this won't cost us the game.

Now back to who we should lynch today, Nudull is the number one lynch target. It's been two days since their claim and scum still haven't targeted them. Unlike Timeasis, they've had time and just retreated into the shadows. See this as coasting scum using a great gambit to stay under the radar and survive until the later game phases.

 

[acohrs]

Looking back on Nudull's posts, ignoring the bits about being busy (because it's OK to have a life outside of Mafia), they've one or two lines on the game state really give nothing to work with. Makes me feel that they have something to hide, especially given the failed roleclaim which Nudull themselves wonders why peeps make a big deal of it. Don't know why it isn't bothering others, but for me, Nudull roleclaimed to be town doctor, a powerful town PR, and scum have had two days to NK them and haven't. That's a giant red flag

 

[Sorian]

Out of curiousity, what mental hoops are you jumping through to say that Time is probably fine because no one has counterclaimed him but Nudull is scummy even though he is not counter claimed? I wouldn't expect a counter claim on Time, he claimed an extremely obscure power and an extremely obscure flavor name, while Nudull is claiming the most common role in gafia.

I find Nudull scummy for a plethora of reasons myself but that was a weird line of justification for Time that you don't even consider for Nudull.

 

[acohrs]

Out of curiousity, what mental hoops are you jumping through to say that Time is probably fine because no one has counterclaimed him but Nudull is scummy even though he is not counter claimed? I wouldn't expect a counter claim on Time, he claimed an extremely obscure power and an extremely obscure flavor name, while Nudull is claiming the most common role in gafia.

I find Nudull scummy for a plethora of reasons myself but that was a weird line of justification for Time that you don't even consider for Nudull.

Essentially the argument for me is time (hardy har) since the claims. Time hasn't had enough time since his claim to prove his PR by activating it at night. Therefore, I suspend disbelief until tomorrow.

Nudull claimed a few days ago, and although it can't be proven that she hasn't protected others during the nightphases, I expected a certain series of events to happen based on their claim. Namely, being NKed or poisoned by scum. That this hasn't happened, makes me very suspicious.

 

[Nudull]

The lie of the 4 voters vs. the 4 people in a cage match. But that was just a "mistake"

And yeah, if I wanted to make up a role only town could have, I could be provable too. There's one thing missing from your argument that mine has though. I didn't have a cop out for blood on me for an entire day phase. That usually means something.



So I was thinking about this in the shower. Fine, you didn't get a chance to take action last night, I've seen town do that before so whatever, but what possible reason do you have to be holding back N1 and N2 targets at this point other than you don't want to get caught in a lie or confused?

In the same vein, AB must be writing a novel because he said a post was coming hours ago.

Fine then. Early in the game, it was too little to go on to find a pattern, so I didn't do much with my role. The second night, I protected myself in the off-chance that I may have been wrong about other protective roles existing in this game (keeping what sort of game this is in mind). Then there was the poison situation, which I had to think on a bit before deciding that it was legit.

 

[Sorian]

Fine then. Early in the game, it was too little to go on to find a pattern, so I didn't do much with my role. The second night, I protected myself in the off-chance that I may have been wrong about other protective roles existing in this game (keeping what sort of game this is in mind). Then there was the poison situation, which I had to think on a bit before deciding that it was legit.

You didn't act N1 either? Do you really expect us to believe this?

 

[Nudull]

You didn't act N1 either? Do you really expect us to believe this?

You talk as if I didn't have every intention of acting each night since then. That, or you've been trying to start a bandwagon on me.

 

[Sorian]

You talk as if I didn't have every intention of acting each night since then. That, or you've been trying to start a bandwagon on me.

There's been three nights and you've "missed" two of them. There is also no excuse for a doctor to be sitting on their hands N1, your ability isn't some great thing that would have won scum the game, it would likely have just been wasted as it would be on most nights.

Also, I see you still haven't read the thread if you think you're my immediate concern.

I'm about to pass out, I'll be back in like 7 or 8 hours.

 

[Verelios]

Fine then. Early in the game, it was too little to go on to find a pattern, so I didn't do much with my role. The second night, I protected myself in the off-chance that I may have been wrong about other protective roles existing in this game (keeping what sort of game this is in mind). Then there was the poison situation, which I had to think on a bit before deciding that it was legit.

...Wait a minute, so the only action you've taken as doctor has been directed towards yourself? This makes very little sense, can your power cure poison or not?

 

[Nudull]

There's been three nights and you've "missed" two of them. There is also no excuse for a doctor to be sitting on their hands N1, your ability isn't some great thing that would have won scum the game, it would likely have just been wasted as it would be on most nights.

Also, I see you still haven't read the thread if you think you're my immediate concern.

I'm about to pass out, I'll be back in like 7 or 8 hours.

You've been pegging me as scummy up to now. I'm not an immediate concern, but I've certainly been on your mind a lot.

...Wait a minute, so the only action you've taken as doctor has been directed towards yourself? This makes very little sense, can your power cure poison or not?

I can't say it specifically cure poison, but it would have been worth a shot regardless.

 

[Fireblend]

That is one lazy and selfish doctor

 

[Faddy]

Ask yourselves a question. Is Sorian the Joker?


If the answer is Yes we should definitely lynch Time.

Sorian has been oddly strong in his play to get Time lynched, usually he make a read and sits back a bit. This time he has all guns blazing. So let's speculate why. What I think happened last night.

1. Scum targeted Nudull but hit lightning rod Flush
2. Flush died of poison/scum
3. Natiko died investigating a Veteran
4. No one was poisoned/neutral killed

Sorian speculated that Natiko investigated Time on Night 2 and tried to get him lynched day 3, also see Sorian's vote on Time just before the Mazre claim kicks off. We can be sure Time isn't Robin since Natiko was trying to get him lynched, against his win condition.

Last night Sorian's kill gets blocked, he knows Time is scum and with Natiko dead he has feared Scum are onto him. He needs to get a kill off tonight. He now speculates Time is a roleblocker so getting him out of the way might let him kill Robin tonight. Even if scum take him out tonight, if he kills Robin, he wins.

If this is correct we should lynch Time, let Sorian take a shot and scum basically have to kill Sorian to stop him getting off a another shot night 5.

 

[Verelios]

That line of thought only works out if Sorian really is the Joker. I think you'd need something more than him going after Time to qualify.

 

[Fireblend]

That's a ton of suppositions. Even with all of those, JokerSorian could well be trying to lynch a townie he thinks is easy to convince others to lynch, in order to buy himself another night to take the shot at Robin. For all we know JokerTeam's strategy could have been to stay on the side of scum until they could get an ID on Robin and kill him and exit the game. In fact, being on the right track regarding scum would probably put them at risk of not being able to fulfill their goal in time, so it would have probably been good to not be too right.

It'd be wrong to assume JokerTeam has been on the side of town all along.

 

[Faddy]

That line of thought only works out if Sorian really is the Joker. I think you'd need something more than him going after Time to qualify.

Ok let me post my evidence of Natiko/Sorian collusion.

Day 1. *Splinter puts a 3rd vote on Natiko to move him into the lynch running, Natiko's partner better act to stop any train with a good few people seeing Terra/Lifeline plays as stupid rather than scummy.

A couple of votes come in for Lifeline which lets Sorian and Natiko immediately move to Terra, making it a clear two options for the lynch.


Day 2 is a simpler since they probably kill *Splinter on night 1 and I back off Natiko onto fat4all. They have the greencheck on Dr Worm and Nat follows through to gauge reactions. Sorian separates himself a bit with a small pursuit of CCS and sexyfish.

Night 2 Flush lightning rods the poison shot on fat who Natiko scum read day 2. Natiko gets Time's name, comes back Bat Fam.

Day 3. Both make moves onto Time before Mazre blows everything up. Come end of day they are both suspicious of Flush, they know he moves around at night, he is a possible threat and a claimed protective role isn't good for them.

Night 4. Natiko dies. Sorian immediately comes into the thread and emphasises Natiko investigation powers

Uh huh

VOTE: Timeaisis

This is the most lazy faux question post I've ever seen. You didn't start playing yesterday, it would have been a classic ploy to at least go out and take Natiko down with him. Didn't seem to work because either his team was too dense to pick up the queue or, more like, his team targeted someone else and got a dead Natiko instead. But let's talk about Natiko for a sec.

He didn't seem to care much about you before yesterday and then he suddenly writes an entire thesis on why he thinks you are scum. Lo and behold, he is a cop. It's not hard to put two and two together here. He clearly got a negative result on you but still wanted to lynch you, so you must not be robin but you are scum.



Maybe, but I do agree that they likely tried to kill joker, like I said above, unless the team was so dense to not take the gift Mazre was giving them in terms of a day that would spiral around Natiko then they likely tried to kill elsewhere and got their kill redirected somehow, I'll go with the odds and say it was the role that we just saw die.

I see the bolded part as Sorian putting it out there that he knows Time's alignment without outright claiming to be the Joker.

 

[Faddy]

1. Scum targeted Nudull but hit lightning rod Flush
2. Flush died of poison/scum
3. Natiko died investigating a Veteran
4. No one was poisoned/neutral killed

That is the complex version of last night

Simple version
1. Flush dies of poison
2. Scum target Sorian, killing Natiko
3. Sorian's kill gets blocked

 

[Fireblend]

That is the complex version of last night

Simple version
1. Flush dies of poison
2. Scum target Sorian, killing Natiko
3. Sorian's kill gets blocked

Why go with the complex version? Also, no thoughts on my thoughts?

 

[Timeaisis]

That's putting a hell of a lot of faith in Sorian, Faddy.

 

[Fireblend]

Also can everyone please put down a vote? We're well within the day's last hours territory.

 

[Faddy]

Why go with the complex version? Also, no thoughts on my thoughts?

Because I when I was trying to work out what happened with Sorian I was arguing about why our doctor claim survived. The complex version takes that into account, I forgot there was simpler explanation where scum just leaves our low activity doctor alone.

No real thoughts on your thoughts tbh. Neutral try and play to win, laying low in the game thread isn't really an option for Sorian or Natiko. Accruing some townie points with a scum lynch would be highly beneficial.

I just don't think Sorian comes out the gate throwing at Time without a really good reason.

 

[Timeaisis]

Your logic is confusing. You admit that Sorian is making a second-hand speculation based on another player's actions who is now dead, and that's enough for you to go on?

Your putting faith in 100% speculation vs something that will be proved tomorrow.

And that's not even accounting for the fact that Sorian might not actually be the Joker.

 

[Faddy]

Just to add on top of that I don't believe Time's story about his power for a minute.

If he posted incorrectly about his power he wouldn't get messaged about it. Fran shouldn't interfere on a possible gambit or mis-read of one's powers.

You can PM a mod for clarity but if you had any doubts that should be done as soon as you receive your PM and if you are going to use the power and still don't fully understand it you would seek guidance before you put it in the thread.

 

[Faddy]

Your logic is confusing. You admit that Sorian is making a second-hand speculation based on another player's actions who is now dead, and that's enough for you to go on?

Your putting faith in 100% speculation vs something that will be proved tomorrow.

And that's not even accounting for the fact that Sorian might not actually be the Joker.

No I don't. In the scenario where Sorian is the Joker he knows the results of Natiko's name checks. (although i might not have made that totally clear in my post, but come on, it says right there in Natiko's flip that he has a secret chat)

 

[Timeaisis]

No I don't. In the scenario where Sorian is the Joker he knows the results of Natiko's name checks. (although i might not have made that totally clear in my post, but come on, it says right there in Natiko's flip that he has a secret chat)

Right, and neither has come out and said that Natiko got a red check on me. Because, as I said many times before, I'm town. Your still jumping through like a dozen hoops to arrive at this scenario.

 

[Faddy]

Right, and neither has come out and said that Natiko got a red check on me. Because, as I said many times before, I'm town. Your still jumping through like a dozen hoops to arrive at this scenario.

It isn't a dozen hoops. I posted a whole bunch of evidence of why I believe Sorian and Natiko were working together in they way they have played and voted.

And funnily enough scum will often say they are town.

 

[Timeaisis]

Everyone who is town will say they are town lol. What are you even talking about.

 

[Faddy]

Everyone who is town will say they are town lol. What are you even talking about.

I see a lot of fight here but not much push back on any of my links between Nat and Sorian or any pushback on your unbelievable story about your power clarification.

Did you PM fran or did fran PM you?

 

[Fireblend]

So, there's an unspoken assumption there Faddy that Joker is the chat partner Natiko's PM is talking about. You can't deny the way the PM is phrased, it seems to imply that their chat partner and the Joker may be two different players, but that also could be just to throw those who read it off. I've been struggling to think who, other than the Joker, would share a secret chat with Harley though. Just a thought.

 

[Timeaisis]

I can't defend complete speculation. Maybe Sorian and Nat are a team. That's one maybe. Maybe Nat did check me. Another one. Maybe he got red and didn't tell anyone (he didn't). That's another one. You are building a monument of suppositions in order to arrive at this conclusion, and for what? To lynch me TODAY as opposed to tomorrow. You cannot wait literally one day for proof. It's odd.

After I posted my role, fran PMed me for clarification. The way it was originally worded I misinterpreted it as the four people I chose would be choosing who to lynch, but they are in fact the ones who are to be lynched.

I can't directly quote my role PM, but the line line was something to the degree of that the lynch would be "made between those four players", which I interpreted as them choosing the lynch via voting.

 

[Faddy]

So, there's an unspoken assumption there Faddy that Joker is the chat partner Natiko's PM is talking about. You can't deny the way the PM is phrased, it seems to imply that their chat partner and the Joker may be two different players, but that also could be just to throw those who read it off. I've been struggling to think who, other than the Joker, would share a secret chat with Harley though. Just a thought.

It calls Natiko the Joker's Lover. Lover being a common Mafia term for players who share a secret chat. It is a tiny assumption, since the Role PM also states they share a chat with a single player.

Natiko was a combo Lover/Investigator/Bodyguard all tied to the Joker. What is the point of Natiko investigating if he can't communicate to the Joker who to kill? And it says right in the role PM the Joker's win condition is to kill Robin.

So it is not an unspoken assumption, it is backed up with clear logic and reasoning from Natiko's flip.

 

[Fireblend]

It calls Natiko the Joker's Lover. Lover being a common Mafia term for players who share a secret chat. It is a tiny assumption, since the Role PM also states they share a chat with a single player.

Oh, ok. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty definitive.

 

[Faddy]

I can't defend complete speculation. Maybe Sorian and Nat are a team. That's one maybe. Maybe Nat did check me. Another one. Maybe he got red and didn't tell anyone (he didn't). That's another one. You are building a monument of suppositions in order to arrive at this conclusion, and for what? To lynch me TODAY as opposed to tomorrow. You cannot wait literally one day for proof. It's odd.

After I posted my role, fran PMed me for clarification. The way it was originally worded I misinterpreted it as the four people I chose would be choosing who to lynch, but they are in fact the ones who are to be lynched.

I can't directly quote my role PM, but the line line was something to the degree of that the lynch would be "made between those four players", which I interpreted as them choosing the lynch via voting.

So you are 100% putting yourself in the THUNDERDOME?

 

[Timeaisis]

So you are 100% putting yourself in the THUNDERDOME?

Is that what you want? It would be kind of useless as it'd basically become a 3-person thunderdome when I am proved town, but sure, if that's what it's going to take

 

[CCS]

I'm leaning towards giving Time another day. He dies tomorrow though if there's no thunderdome.

VOTE: Zippedpinhead

 

[Faddy]

I think I am right about Sorian and he should claim. (actually anyone who is Joker should claim)

There is a high probability scum know who you are either from Natiko bodyguard or from role blocking you. You saw my post about Sorian, I don't want him dead and a scum hunting vig is definitely useful for Town. That would stand for any Joker.

So if you claim and give us Natiko's checks and your scum reads I think Nudull could be convinced to protect you tonight which would give you an additional night to work with.

 

[Timeaisis]

So you are 100% putting yourself in the THUNDERDOME?

Actually, this is kind of a null point. Because:

If there is a thunderdome, I'm town, so you don't have to lynch me. And I don't have to include myself in the thunderdome.

If there isn't a thunderdome, lynch me. Obviously, if there isn't at thunderdome, I don't have to put myself in one considering there isn't one and you are free to lynch me as usual.

 

[Faddy]

Actually, this is kind of a null point. Because:

If there is a thunderdome, I'm town, so you don't have to lynch me. And I don't have to include myself in the thunderdome.

If there isn't a thunderdome, lynch me. Obviously, if there isn't at thunderdome, I don't have to put myself in one considering there isn't one and you are free to lynch me as usual.

Yeah except I am not of the opinion that using your power clears you.