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Army in "last throes" of recruiting wars

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When you have to kidnap kids to boost your bottom line, trouble is in the air.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/paynter/227497_paynter08.html

A single mom with a meager income, Marcia raised her kids on the farm where, until recently, she grew salad greens for restaurants.

Axel's father, a Marine Corps vet who served in Vietnam, died when Axel was 4.

Clearly the recruiters knew all that and more.

"You don't want to be a burden to your mom," they told him. "Be a man." "Make your father proud." Never mind that, because of his own experience in the service, Marcia says enlistment for his son is the last thing Axel's dad would have wanted.

The next weekend, when Marcia went to Seattle for the Folklife Festival and Axel was home alone, two recruiters showed up at the door.

Axel repeated the family mantra, but he was feeling frazzled and worn down by then. The sergeant was friendly but, at the same time, aggressively insistent. This time, when Axel said, "Not interested," the sarge turned surly, snapping, "You're making a big (bleeping) mistake!"

Next thing Axel knew, the same sergeant and another recruiter showed up at the LaConner Brewing Co., the restaurant where Axel works. And before Axel, an older cousin and other co-workers knew or understood what was happening, Axel was whisked away in a car.

"They said we were going somewhere but I didn't know we were going all the way to Seattle," Axel said.

Just a few tests. And so many free opportunities, the recruiters told him.

He could pursue his love of chemistry. He could serve anywhere he chose and leave any time he wanted on an "apathy discharge" if he didn't like it. And he wouldn't have to go to Iraq if he didn't want to.

At about 3:30 in the morning, Alex was awakened in the motel and fed a little something. Twelve hours later, without further sleep or food, he had taken a battery of tests and signed a lot of papers he hadn't gotten a chance to read. "Just formalities," he was told. "Sign here. And here. Nothing to worry about."

By then Marcia had "freaked out."

She went to the Burlington recruiting center where the door was open but no one was home. So she grabbed all the cards and numbers she could find, including the address of the Seattle-area testing center.

Then, with her grown daughter in tow, she high-tailed it south, frantically phoning Axel whose cell phone had been confiscated "so he wouldn't be distracted during tests."

Axel's grandfather was in the hospital dying, she told the people at the desk. He needed to come home right away. She would have said just about anything.

But, even after being told her son would be brought right out, her daughter spied him being taken down a separate hall and into another room. So she dashed down the hall and grabbed him by the arm.

"They were telling me I needed to 'be a man' and stand up to my family," Axel said.

What he needed, it turned out, was a lawyer.

Five minutes and $250 after an attorney called the recruiters, Axel's signed papers and his cell phone were in the mail.

That's weird. Why would the Army need to kidnap a kid, though?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/08/politics/08recruit.html?

Even after reducing its recruiting target for May, the Army missed it by about 25 percent, Army officials said on Tuesday. The shortfall would have been even bigger had the Army stuck to its original goal for the month.

On Friday, the Army is expected to announce that it met only 75 percent of its recruiting goal for May, the fourth consecutive monthly shortfall in the number of new recruits sent to basic training. Just over 5,000 new recruits entered boot camp in May.

But the news could have appeared worse. Early last month, the Army, with no public notice, lowered its long-stated May goal to 6,700 recruits from 8,050. Compared with the original target, the Army achieved only 62.6 percent of its goal for the month.


Army officials defended the shift on Tuesday, saying it was not uncommon to change monthly goals at midyear. They said that the latest change reflected the reality that the Army was not going to meet its May goal, and that it made more sense to shift some of that quota to the summer months, traditionally a better season for recruiters to attract new high school graduates.

"We typically reallocate monthly goals during the course of the year," said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, an Army spokesman, who said that the Army still expected to meet its overall annual goal of shipping 80,000 new recruits to boot camp. "The summer is relatively easier for recruiting." [...]

The Army has tried to reverse the trend by adding 1,000 recruiters since last September, starting a new advertising campaign, offering selected enlistment bonuses of more than $20,000 and pairing returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan with recruiters to attract soldiers.

Surely the Pentagon isn't going to put up with this shit any longer, so they've resorted to keeping the numbers close to their chest until the time is right, aka numbers meet standards.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-892069.php

The Army and Marine Corps, as they struggle with recruiting shortfalls, will no longer announce their monthly recruiting numbers at the beginning of each month.
Instead, the Defense Department will approve the release of recruiting statistics for all four services.

Normally, each service releases its monthly statistics at the beginning of each month, but a spokesman for Marine Corps Recruiting Command said on Wednesday that he was no longer authorized to do so.

In April, the Corps missed its contracting goal by 260 contracts -- falling 9 percent shy of its goal to enlist 2,971 recruits -- marking the fourth month in a row that the Corps missed its contracting goal.

But whether the Corps was able to turn that around in May will not be known until the Defense Department releases the statistics June 10, said Maj. David Griesmer.

The change will ensure consistency and give Pentagon officials time to review the data, Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, said on Wednesday.

"We just wanted to release all the information at the same time. It's all the numbers at once, instead of one service coming out on this day of the month and another service coming out on another day of the month," Krenke said.

"I just wanted to give my mother all the A's at the same time instead of just the one the day my grades arrive!"

:lol :lol :lol :lol
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
God I so want them to try to install a draft so everyone would finally wake the fuck up. At least it looks like young people don't feel like dying for nothing anymore. Or at least in the numbers the Army wants anyway.
 

ronito

Member
cut.row2.col4.bush.pic.jpg


Now who will I get to fight my unpopular war...
 

White Man

Member
He'll need another terror attack before he can get the sway to comfortably and safely announce a draft. I doubt a draft will be called unless their given the opportunity to make it look good. These aren't dumb people; they've been brilliant at manipulating the public. They wouldn't throw that in the toilet at this point.
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
Yeah. The only people that want a draft are the civillians in charge of the DoD. The military leaders don't want a draft, cuz they don't want civvies in there fucking up and getting good soldiers killed (which happened a lot in Vietnam). The politicians don't want a draft cuz, naturally, it's political suicide and a good way to end up in an oak suit, if you catch my drift. It's these civillian leaders at the pentagon who are career 'civil service' workers there who want free soldiers with no rules... which is how they view a draft. You've heard of these people, too. The Wolfowitz, Bremer type.

The funniest story I heard during the beginning of the war was how military generals had to forceably drag Tom Clancy out of the Pentagon. He was there interviewing a couple generals he was friends with as they were helping him out with a new book. He passed by Paul Wolfowitz who was in there and talking about the war. Another military official told Wolfowitz that whatever they were doing was going to get a lot of 'kids killed'. Wolfowitz then said, as Clancy walked by, "Who cares? They signed up to die. Let them go die." Clancy was on his ass like white on rice, haha, and had to be dragged out before he beat the shit out of Wolfowitz, hahaha. I went out the day I heard that and bought another Clancy book, just to support him, hha.

And yeah, it doesn't surprise me about recruiters doing that kind of shit. If they don't go and get other people to fight in Iraq, then THEY have to go fight and lose their cushy recruiting job in some small suburban city. Not something that's very likeable. I personally take everything a recruiter tells me with a grain of salt, except for one guy who I know through the local ROTC program and i'm cool with. His numbers are so good right now for the national guard recruitment that he doesn't give a shit if I sign up or not, so he just bullshits with me when I see him. Cool shit. But for the most part, these people are worse than politicians in terms of lying. I was lucky cuz the local recruiter during high school came after me but i was a total dickhead to him. Like, I told him i was gonna join. then set up an appointment for him to come to my house... i wouldn't be there. I'd ignore his calls. then when he got ahold of me I was like "yeahhh... actually, I don't think i'm gonna sign up. Sorry man."

My buddy ended up signing up a few months later and was looking through their ledger (they had an entire book of every graduating senior from my high school with detailed info about all of them-- GPA, physical build, athleticism, etc) and he saw mine. In the 'details' box it had "Fucking asshole" written in it. He promptly called me laughing his ass off and told me. Hilarious shit.
 
The military badgering people to join has existed before Iraq.

During HS, at the end of the year, the Army was trying to recruit anyone who gave them eye contact. I know many, like myself, went out of their way to avoid them. I recall the halls where they were at being bare by the third or fourth day they were there. Nobody simply wanted to go through with their tactics, unless they wanted to join up.

I was working at my job at retail when a recruiter tried to recruit me AT MY FUCKING JOB. Not only that but there was a line of three or four people behind him and he was taking up a lot of time. After a couple minutes, I told him this was inappropriate and if he wouldn't leave, I would ask for management to step in.

Then a month later, I got a call. My phone didn't have Caller ID so I picked up and a man answered, "Hey [name], whats up?" Not knowing who it was, I asked who it was. I don't remember what all he said but yep, it was another recruitment call. 10 minutes later and needing to go take care of some business, I told him I wasn't interested and hung up.

That was it with the military nightmare. I got 6 years left until my Selective Service card expires. Hopefully I'll make it.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I had a recruiter tell me once that if he didn't meet his quota for the month, he was going to lose his job, and his wife was probably going to leave him.


Nice tactics, huh? :)
 

pnjtony

Member
I joined the air force after high school. Not that I was interested in the military, but because I was ignorant about financial aid (parent's weren't any help) and I didn't have $40,000 in my bank account to pay for college. Anyways I went to the recruiters office and the air force guy was in a shabby uniform at best and had his feet propped up on his desk rockin out to Alice in Chains. I ended up with a cushy satellite command and control job, but it still sucked ass. I didn't fault my recruiter because it was my choice and he didn't lay a single lie on me.

This crap right here is bullshit.
 
I was actually going to enlist in the military because I was a Civil Engineering major and wanted to travel the world. Until I met many Civil Engineers and found out that you can do the world travel without going to the military.

A lot of my friends enlisted but that was mostly due to family tradition. With traditions like these, I don't think the military will ever really run out of recruits.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
ToxicAdam said:
I had a recruiter tell me once that if he didn't meet his quota for the month, he was going to lose his job, and his wife was probably going to leave him.


Nice tactics, huh? :)

To which I'd reply:
"If I join the military, I'll most likely get killed, and that would upset my mother."
 

ronito

Member
LakeEarth said:
I want a draft to happen, then I know I'll be partying with you guys up in Canada for a while.

Keep dreaming, the draft just wont happen unless there's another attack on the US. Bush knows that republicans would lose power if they re-instated the draft. The US (by and large) have no problem supporting a war when there's no chance they'll have to go to it.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
ToxicAdam said:
I had a recruiter tell me once that if he didn't meet his quota for the month, he was going to lose his job, and his wife was probably going to leave him.


Nice tactics, huh? :)
Was his name Gil?
65.gif


"Well I almost got a sale... Honey? Hello?"
 

LakeEarth

Member
scola said:
Was his name Gil?
65.gif


"Well I almost got a sale... Honey? Hello?"
"What, who's that with you there?!? IS THAT HANK! I told you to stop seeing him, NO I don't want you to put him on the phone, I want - HEY HANK!"
 
The Marines already came to my door. They said I could have any job, so I asked for something in radio. The reply was that I couldn't have it. huh.

I did join the Army though after being out of high school for a few years. I didn't want to be stuck living in the same place my entire life, stuck in a rut like so many of the people I knew, so I joined up and left. 6 years later my time was up, the war was starting, and I figured that was as good a time as any to get out. I feel better about myself for having served, but I know that if I had to make the choice today it wouldn't be the same one.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
oh btw if you ever get a marine corps recruiter hounding you tell them you have chronic asthma. they will stop talking to you faster than you can imagine.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
scola said:
oh btw if you ever get a marine corps recruiter hounding you tell them you have chronic asthma. they will stop talking to you faster than you can imagine.

Or you can tell them you're on medication for depression.

Or that you think he's cute.

Either one works, really.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
olimario said:
This story doesn't seem real at all.


I thought the same thing. Why aren't there any quotes from the recruiters who did this? Maybe some comments from local Police?

The writer is one of those periodic Op-Ed types. Thier article appears on the right side of the Lifestyle section (you know, the annoying reporter in every paper that has horrible opinions or lame observations).

I also liked her Memorial Day article. She used it to whore out recent local deaths in the military (obviously in a vague protest of the current war). Disgraceful.
 

pj

Banned
I almost joined the air force. I did everything up to and including swearing in, all on my recruiter's promise that I would get something in computers. "ANYTHING in computers," I said, and he was like "with your asvab score, NO PROBLEM." ..So I get a call a couple weeks after I swore in, and he's like "Great news! We found you a job as a radio operator!" I told them I didn't want that, and he's like "well the air force is pretty full now, so this is the only thing we can offer you"

I told them to kiss my ass and they let me out
 

Drozmight

Member
The army dudes used to call me all the damn time. I'd usually just be eating as I talked to them while they tried to persuade me to join up. I'd eventually apathetically hang up. Then they came to my house one time, but I wasn't home, my mom told them to fuck off and they never bothered me again.
 

suaveric

Member
I helped talk my brother out of joining the Marines this spring. I have nothing against the Marines, but the only reason he wanted to join them was because he thought they were "the biggest badasses". So I had him talk to my friend that's Navy JAG.

He ended up joining the Air Force. I can live with that.
 

AssMan

Banned
Charlie Rangel, a democrat, proposed a bill to bring back the draft a few years ago. :lol



Anyway, you don't have to join and do infantry for christ sakes. As most people said here already, do something that keeps you indoors. Keep pressuring them for the ONLY ONE job that you want. Usually the military asks you to pick your 3 jobs that you want, whichever one is open, then you get it.
 

Cimarron

Member
Bah! That's only a concern for those poor chumps in the Army and Marines. I joined the air force reseves one year after 9/11 and they haven't sent me anywhere near the Middle East. *knock on wood* In fact annual tour is at tyndall afb in panama city, fl. :D There military is not so bad. Just don't be a dumb ass and....

#1. Try to be a ground pounder or jughead.
#2 Be a retard and join any branch as "open general"

Aim High baby! If you insist on selling your soul the the Imperial Armed Forces join the boys in blue!


"well the air force is pretty full now, so this is the only thing we can offer you"

We are not desparate!

Anyways I went to the recruiters office and the air force guy was in a shabby uniform at best and had his feet propped up on his desk rockin out to Alice in Chains.

Pretty much sums up the bulk of us in the air force. :p We may may not be the toughest or gung ho branch but at least we get all the benefits and none of the nasty death after taste. :lol
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spruiell200506141217.asp
June 14, 2005, 12:17 p.m.
Recruiting Facts
There’s more to a Marine story than one Seattle columnist wrote.

By Stephen Spruiell

Last Friday, on NRO’s new media blog, I wrote about a column in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer by Susan Paynter that essentially accused Marine recruiters of attempting to kidnap a local 18-year-old named Axel Cobb and force him to join the Marines. The left-wing blog DailyKos had quickly picked up on the story and used it to bolster allegations that the Marines’ recruiting prospects look so dim that “They’ve resorted to kidnapping.”


The column was entirely one-sided and the story told primarily from the point of view of the 18-year-old’s mother. And there was nothing about the Marines who apparently tried to kidnap the kid.

“My request to speak with the sergeant who recruited Axel and with the Burlington office about recruitment procedures went unanswered,” Paynter wrote.

I called up the Marine recruiting office in Burlington (a suburb north of Seattle) on Thursday, and the Marine who answered the phone referred me to Sgt. John Chau, the media-affairs guy for the Seattle area. I called Chau and asked if he had spoken to Susan Paynter about the story. I was surprised by his answer:

Did I receive a call from that reporter? No. Did my Marines receive a call from that reporter? No. I can’t speculate on what she did, but I can say no query was received at this office.

I asked Sgt. Chau if it would be possible for me to speak with the Marines who recruited Axel. Sgt. Chau said he would arrange for me to speak with them on Monday. So Monday, three business days after beginning my inquiry, I spoke with Staff Sgt. Ron Marquez, the Marine who recruited Axel.

Two Different Accounts
Marquez’s account differs from Paynter’s in many key respects. Paynter tells the story of a kid bullied almost beyond endurance by sadistic Marines who drag him all over Washington State trying to disorient him and railroad him into joining the Corps. Marquez says he just saw a kid who really wanted to join the Marines but couldn’t overcome the objections of his family.

In Paynter’s version, for instance:

Marine recruiters began a relentless barrage of calls to Axel as soon as the mellow, compliant Sedro-Woolley High School grad had cut his 17th birthday cake. And soon it was nearly impossible to get the seekers of a few good men off the line.

According to Marquez:

We have systematic method of recruiting in place where we try to contact individuals who might be interested in the Marines typically when they become seniors. We looked at the call list and since the summer of 2003 when Axel became a senior, he’s been called 13 times. I contacted him on the 25th of last month [May]. Axel did not speak to anyone prior to that.

This averages to about one call every two months. For some, this might seem to be a “relentless barrage.” Eventually, despite his mother’s embargo on calls from the Marines, Axel answered the endlessly ringing phone. Even though Paynter skips past what happened next, Marquez filled in the details. After talking to Marquez on the phone, Axel visited his office for an appointment; according to Marquez:

We sat down and talked in further detail about what he wanted to do… he wanted to pursue school full-time because he was interested in chemistry. He wanted to get self-confidence and work on his leadership abilities. So I told him about my personal experience and… how he would get the opportunity to develop in those aspects. I believe we talked for two or three hours. And I asked him if he wanted to be a Marine, and then I stepped out to let him think about it, and I came back in and he said “Yeah, I wanna do this, I wanna be a Marine.” So I congratulated him, I said “You’re making a great decision”... We agreed to meet the next day.

The next day, Axel cancelled because, “His family was really against it,” Marquez said. “I asked if he would come back into my office so we could talk in person. He came back into my office. We starting talking about his goals again. Just from talking to him I knew that he wanted to join the Marine Corps.”

Marquez said his persistence in trying to recruit Axel stemmed from his conviction that Axel wanted to be a Marine — “he had been hollering ‘Yeah, I’m gonna be a Marine. This is awesome.’” Marquez thought that his family’s objections were the only thing holding him back. At their second meeting, Axel agreed to take the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery in Seattle. But then Axel told Marquez that he had another change of heart. According to Marquez:

He called up and he said, “You know, I just can’t do it. And this time his mom got on the phone and said “Our family’s not interested, don’t call here again.” I went to his house, on the weekend, so I could talk to his mom in person, with Axel there, because I knew he wanted to be a Marine.

Axel’s mother was not home. According to Paynter’s account, two Marines showed up at Axel’s house that day and started berating him. Paynter wrote that “This time, when Axel said, ‘Not interested,’ the sarge turned surly, snapping, ‘You're making a big (bleeping) mistake!’

I asked Marquez if he remembered it that way. First, he said, he was the only one who went to the house that day to see Axel. Second, he said:

I said, if the only thing that’s holding you back is your family’s objection, you have to know that these opportunities only come along once in a lifetime, and if you do let them pass, I think you’re going to be making a mistake. I didn’t yell… I can’t recall whether or not I did [use an expletive]. I don’t think so, but it’s possible. But it wasn’t a yell or a command.

The next passage in Paynter’s column is critical. In it, she all but accuses the Marines of kidnapping (even though she backed away from that characterization in her follow-up column of reader reactions). Directly following the scene at the house, Paynter wrote the following:

Next thing Axel knew, the same sergeant and another recruiter showed up at the LaConner Brewing Co., the restaurant where Axel works. And before Axel, an older cousin and other co-workers knew or understood what was happening, Axel was whisked away in a car.

“They said we were going somewhere but I didn’t know we were going all the way to Seattle,” Axel said.

Marquez said this passage is flat wrong. First, Marquez insists he was the only Marine who came to Axel’s work that night. Second, and more importantly, Marquez said that his conversation with Axel at the house ended with Axel agreeing to come to Seattle:

… his father had been in Vietnam and died early because, his mom said, of the physical weardown of being a Marine. He asked me about my family and I said I don’t have a father either, I have a stepdad, and I know back in 1998 I was a high school senior when I made the decision [to become a Marine]. My mom wasn’t too happy about it either, but once she saw that this is what I really wanted to do she was supportive.

So then we agreed, he said “I want to do this.” So I said, “I’ll pick you up after work and take you to Seattle and we can do the screenings.”

Marquez maintains that, rather than being practically abducted, Axel came along with him back to the Burlington office. Once there, Axel joined several other applicants on a trip to Seattle to register, spend the night in a hotel, then wake up early the next day and complete the mental, moral and physical screenings.

Marquez stayed behind, but that night received a phone call from Axel’s mom. The next day, Marquez went to see Axel at the testing center.

When I got to Seattle I was told that his mother and sister and a whole bunch of people were there. I saw Axel and he said he was on his way to complete the tests, and I said, “Hey, your mom said there was a family emergency,” and then I turned around and he was gone.

Here’s how Paynter described what happened next: “Five minutes and $250 after an attorney called the recruiters, Axel’s signed papers and his cell phone were in the mail.”

Marquez disputed a point of fact:

I had a couple of lawyers call that afternoon. I called back and they said, “Axel Cobb’s no longer interested in joining the Marines.” But I still had his birth certificate, his Social Security card, and his cell phone, and I said, “Is there anyway I can get these back to Axel,” and the lawyer said, “You can mail them,” and I said, “That’s unacceptable. We can’t mail these things to just anyone.” So the lawyer brought Axel up to get his stuff, and I shook his hand and gave him his stuff and told him I would be here if he ever changed his mind.

Marines say Paynter never called
Marquez told me the story of a young, impressionable boy who seemed eager to tell people what they wanted to hear. In such a situation, one could draw the conclusion that the Marines recruited Axel too aggressively. Yet, if Axel kept telling Marquez at the end of every meeting that he wanted to join the Marines, then Marquez’s job was to follow up with the kid. And over the course of the recruitment, Axel went bowling with Marquez and his wife, and he and Marquez often talked about private family issues and personal experiences. This was not the hostile, bullying relationship that Paynter’s column led readers to believe it was.

Given the number of contradictions and important nuances Paynter missed by failing to get the Marine’s side of the story, one has to wonder how strenuous an effort Paynter made to bring that story to her readers. I grew curious when Sgt. Chau told me last Friday that Paynter had never contacted him. Since then, I have been in touch with Paynter via e-mail. She responded:

Let me simply explain that, as I said, I did attempt to reach the two recruiters involved in Axel Cobb’s situation and the supervisors at the Burlington office out of which they operate. In my judgment that was the best and most direct route from which to get their version of events, rather than getting a boilerplate statement from a spokesperson further up the chain. In two days they did not respond.

I wrote to her again, asking whom she tried to contact in the Marines. She replied, “I will continue to pursue, on my own, the military side I have already attempted to obtain. But I don’t feel any obligation to provide you with names of my sources.” Thinking she misunderstood, I again asked just for the names of the Marines she tried to contact, but that e-mail has gone unanswered.

Monday, I asked Sgt. Chau, Staff Sgt. Marquez, Staff Sgt. David J. Adams (who runs the Burlington office), and Lt. Col. Robert Coty (who oversees all these Marines) if Susan Paynter had ever tried to contact any of them. All of them told me no. Staff Sgt. Adams said, “I actually had a conversation with all my Marines on this specific subject, and I asked all my Marines, ‘Has anyone been contacted by this writer?’ and no one’s been contacted in either Bellingham or Burlington.”

Because Paynter will not say who she tried to contact, I have no way of figuring out how these Marines and Susan Paynter ended up contradicting each other on this matter. I do know, however, that after going through the proper channels I was able to get a side of the story in three business days that her readers are deprived of.

Going back and reading some of Susan Paynter’s old columns, I found one she wrote this past Memorial Day: a heartfelt tribute to local families of soldiers killed in battle. It's hard to believe the same writer penned a piece so reverent to soldiers one week and one so unfair the next.

— Stephen Sprueill reports on the media for National Review Online's new media blog.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
ToxicAdam said:
I also liked her Memorial Day article. She used it to whore out recent local deaths in the military (obviously in a vague protest of the current war). Disgraceful.

Yes, because naming the locals who have died fighting this war in order to remind people that there is a definite human element to all of this is the sleaziest thing in the world.
 
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