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[androvsky]

Because I like the premise? Because I enjoy the idea of games that actually reward creativity above killing stuff? Because I like the character designs, just not the way certain characters are treated? Because I like a lot of what the game has to offer, I just get really bothered by certain elements?

Again, we're talking the teacher of your teacher. By nature of the time it would take for that progression to happen, Rorona should be due more than being a token loli.

I just find it weird that you seem to be so against my suggestion that toning down the pandering a bit and making the games more accessibly to more people. I'm not looking to ruin what this franchise is about, because frankly, it isn't about that. It does server (to me) as an example of the moe-fication of Japan, and it bothers me to see elements like those in games that could be great examples of games with strong, respectable heroines.

I love that the next game seems to be skewing to an older main female. Maybe just slightly older, but still older.

From what I understand, that's basically what the first 7 or so games of the series (counting spinoffs, excluding Iris and Mana Khemia) were like. I even stumbled across a TV Tropes page a while back that insisted that Atelier Elie was probably the most progressive, feminist, and positive portrayal of a female in video games. Iirc, only the very first game, Atelier Marie, sold anywhere near as well as any in the Arland trilogy.

Just to make myself clear, I'd much rather they get rid of the creepy pandering bits. It's just that greatly increased sales happened to coincide with the creepy pandering bits. I think it's the hugely improved graphics and near total lack of competition on the PS3 that's made the difference. On the other hand, adding some moe at the height of the craze might be what gave them the confidence to make the jump to PS3, rather than moving the old engine to handhelds like most of the rest of the Japanese industry.

 

[mollipen]

I really don't need my video game heroines to be like Mass Effect Commander Shepherd or Uncharted Elena. In fact, I hate characters like that. Almost all characters that people bring up as "strong female leads" are characters I dislike. I'm totally fine with girls being girly. If a character is written such that she could be replaced with a male character with little to no change, I find that to be a bad female character.

Please don't misunderstand—I'm not saying that I don't want my female characters to be girly! I love girls being girly! What I'm growing increasingly frustrated by is the tendency of a certain segment of hardcore Japanese fans to want female characters to be little more than waifu material. I think there's a huuuuge difference between "good female character" and "character written to satisfy lonely Japanese guys", and that difference isn't making them Commander Shepherd. And I have nothing at all bad to say about Meruru herself, as I really liked her.

And as to the question of Rorona, great, so that's what she was—let her be something different now! I instantly thought about Dragon Ball, where young Goku was like a thousand times different than older Goku. Or even if you want to still have her be a moron mentally, don't do it in such a pandering way. I know some people will continue to not care at all about how she was handled in Meruru, but I still find it totally creepy—not because of what it is on its own, but what I see it representing in a bigger way.

 

[RurouniZel]

I do not dislike Rorona's character as much as some other heroine's I've experienced, but there were a few times where Rorona did get on my nerves a bit by being a bit too out of sorts. I mean, yes I've met one real woman in my life who was that bad, but I didn't like her much.

Totori is a bit of a stronger character in that while she's klutzy, she's not completely out of it or unaware of her surroundings. Meruru is a very go-get-'em gal who I enjoyed very much as a character. Frankly my only problem with Meruru is her "skirt" if one can legally call it that... >>;

 

[mollipen]

I'm growing ever frustrated with the "lovable klutz" anime stereotype, so I initially thought I was going to hate Totori. But, I ended up liking her as well most of the time. I really could do without the klutzy stuff, but she showed actual depth beyond that, and was much more than she first seemed.

 

[frequency]

Please don't misunderstand—I'm not saying that I don't want my female characters to be girly! I love girls being girly! What I'm growing increasingly frustrated by is the tendency of a certain segment of hardcore Japanese fans to want female characters to be little more than waifu material. I think there's a huuuuge difference between "good female character" and "character written to satisfy lonely Japanese guys", and that difference isn't making them Commander Shepherd. And I have nothing at all bad to say about Meruru herself, as I really liked her.

And as to the question of Rorona, great, so that's what she was—let her be something different now! I instantly thought about Dragon Ball, where young Goku was like a thousand times different than older Goku. Or even if you want to still have her be a moron mentally, don't do it in such a pandering way. I know some people will continue to not care at all about how she was handled in Meruru, but I still find it totally creepy—not because of what it is on its own, but what I see it representing in a bigger way.

Fair point. I guess Commander Shepherd is an extreme opposite example. She was just the first thing that came to mind when I think about what gamers call a "strong female lead." It bothers me that a strong female lead, to many people, is a female character with almost all her girly-ness removed.

I can see your point though. I think my personal opinion about who the best "strong female lead" is in games is Serah from FFXIII-2. I don't think she's "waifu material". She's strong and capable and confident while still being a girl. And I don't think she falls into any of the overdone anime stereotypes.

 

[RurouniZel]

Fair point. I guess Commander Shepherd is an extreme opposite example. She was just the first thing that came to mind when I think about what gamers call a "strong female lead." It bothers me that a strong female lead, to many people, is a female character with almost all her girly-ness removed.

I can see your point though. I think my personal opinion about who the best "strong female lead" is in games is Serah from FFXIII-2. I don't think she's "waifu material". She's strong and capable and confident while still being a girl. And I don't think she falls into any of the overdone anime stereotypes.

I agree. While I don't like female characters who are basically "men with tits" as it were, I do want them to be competent and strong willed. Serah is a good example of a mostly well conceived character. Too bad she wasn't in a better story. >>;

 

[RurouniZel]

Playing through this again is much faster due to having the better equipment from the start. But it does make raising friendships a bit harder since if you're using the atraveler's Shoes you spend less "days" walking with your companions.

And Mimi is still my favorite character in the Arland series. I <3 her so much! :3

 

[frequency]

Playing through this again is much faster due to having the better equipment from the start. But it does make raising friendships a bit harder since if you're using the atraveler's Shoes you spend less "days" walking with your companions.

And Mimi is still my favorite character in the Arland series. I <3 her so much! :3

But because of faster travel, you have more time to fight and stuff. And over the course of the game, you can go out traveling more often since you have more time.

 

[ChryZ]

My copy came with the mail today :3

 

[RurouniZel]

My copy came with the mail today :3

Awesome! Enjoy, it's good stuff!

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

My copy came with the mail today :3

http://i.minus.com/jzj6c5O4YMAIe.jpg[IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

Those are nice... curtains or sheets or whatever

 

[zulux21]

yay just got my LE.
I can't recall if it's been mentioned before but the game has a 1.7gb install. Beyond that you have to be on firmware 4.11 to play it. Given I was on the psn less than a week ago I personally was surprised that I had to update my ps3 to play it lol.

I haven't started yet, still waiting for the install but figured I would let people know so they know to boot it up to install before grabbing dinner or something so that they can install it while they aren't waiting to play it

 

[Volcynika]

Got my copy, but still stuck at work for a few more hours. May have to stay late tonight.

BARREL

 

[robotzombie]

Anyone else's amazon US shipment not happening yet? Looks like there's another delay?

 

[raven777]

My Limited Edition just arrived today.

 

[Rarutos]

Playing through this again is much faster due to having the better equipment from the start. But it does make raising friendships a bit harder since if you're using the atraveler's Shoes you spend less "days" walking with your companions

When do we get those shoes anyway? I'm almost in Year 3!

 

[Gravijah]

LE box is stufffffed.

 

[RurouniZel]

When do we get those shoes anyway? I'm almost in Year 3!

I think around Alchemy level 35-40 I think? Either that or after one of the later Kingdom upgrades.

I was just about mid-way through Year 4 when I finally nabbed them IIRC.

 

[Rarutos]

I think around Alchemy level 35-40 I think? Either that or after one of the later Kingdom upgrades.

Curses, if it's the former I need to synthesize more!

 

[SpaceDrake]

From what I understand, that's basically what the first 7 or so games of the series (counting spinoffs, excluding Iris and Mana Khemia) were like. I even stumbled across a TV Tropes page a while back that insisted that Atelier Elie was probably the most progressive, feminist, and positive portrayal of a female in video games. Iirc, only the very first game, Atelier Marie, sold anywhere near as well as any in the Arland trilogy.

Elie also sold as well as the Arland trilogy did; depending on source, it did anywhere between 180k to almost a quarter-million, about the same as Marie did. Also, it's only first five, if you're excluding the Iris and Khemia games

Anyway I can totally feel what shidoshi is saying on the "waifu material" front, and it's frustrating because the old Atelier heroines weren't like that at all; the closest the "classic" heroines ever came to that was Judie, and even then it wasn't nearly as hammered home as it can be in the Arland games sometimes. Meruru is somewhat better about being her own person and not just "waifu material" at least (hell, that's more or less the theme of the game).

 

[Spirit Icana]

Elie also sold as well as the Arland trilogy did; depending on source, it did anywhere between 180k to almost a quarter-million.

Thanks for that. I was pretty sure some of the PS1 Atelier games had sold much more than the the first two or even all three Arland games. The sales-agers posted the numbers when Meruru was crossing 100k in Media Create last year (probably famitsu numbers, but I don't know). I forgot the numbers, but I vaguely recall them doing much better than any other Gust game these days.

Hopefully Atelier Ayesha (which looks pretty modest for the girl character designs so far) will continue the upward trend and outsell Meruru this summer.

Anyway, I didn't get the game yet. Hope to be playing with you guys soon.

Oh and poor Rarutos.
This thread was yours, man.

Good to see you and Rurouni are cool though.

 

[Kincaido]

The DLC is up now if you search "Meruru". Also, I hate you all that got the game already ;_;

 

[Spirit Icana]

The DLC is up now if you search "Meruru". Also, I hate you all that got the game already ;_;

Some of them are already finishing it. I think we should be happy it's still ALL NEW for us yet.

I'd like to know how much english voices are in the game. I don't know if that's been discussed in this thread. Totori had quite a lot and I was happy. I recall Rorona being much more quiet.

 

[Lindsay]

Ohhh boyyy~!

My Grand Finale Set Princess Edition (thats what I'm calling it an I'm sticking to it!) just got dropped off! The lack of poster stinks but the music & book'll make up for it, an maybe I'll hang up the barrel shirt somewhere. Can't wait ta get around to playing it... someday!

 

[Rarutos]

Oh and poor Rarutos.
This thread was yours, man.

Good to see you and Rurouni are cool though.

Haha, well I was pretty disappointed but I got over it. Thanks for your concern though!

Also wow, over 200 BGM for 3 bucks! That's a great deal especially compared to all of those different Totori packs.

 

[ChryZ]

Awesome! Enjoy, it's good stuff!

Really looking forward to it, such a lovely series.

Those are nice... curtains or sheets or whatever

Curtains, hehe ... thanks? ^_^;

 

[Spirit Icana]

EDIT: I'm about a year into the game now. For anyone who hasn't gotten the Atelier Totori True Ending, or anyone who was even interested in playing Atelier Totori at some point, this game DOES SPOIL that ending. Just a warning.

Nooooooo!

Now I gotta debate myself. Watch it on youtube and play Meruru soon, or endure that painful spring cup garbage, get my 500k cole, play new game plus and speed-run the game to true ending. I have a good guess what true ending will reveal. Spoiler:

Spoiler

Gisela is still alive. That sounds like it would defeat that one touching scene where Totori breaks down in that snow village though.

Or I can just play Meruru and careless about the spoiler. I'm pretty certain of what it is anyway and I doubt Meruru will take away from the scene in Totori when I eventually get to it. Would you say so too, Rurouni?

 

[Bebpo]

Anyone else's amazon US shipment not happening yet? Looks like there's another delay?

Yeah, mine didn't ship and it says 2-4 weeks now.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Also wow, over 200 BGM for 3 bucks! That's a great deal especially compared to all of those different Totori packs.

Yeah, and I was already impressed by the music packs for Totori. With all the great music they included, I felt that price was already a steal.

 

[Rarutos]

Silly NISA, their names for the Japanese only Atelier games sure can get inconsistent.

In Meruru's BGM pack:

Lilie = Lily (I forget if they spelled it this way in the Totori packs or not)
Violet = Violette (Violet is Violet in Trinity Universe, and I'm pretty sure they spelled it Violet in the Totori BGM packs)
Lise = Lise (Lise was Liese in Atelier Annie)

 

[RurouniZel]

Nooooooo!

Now I gotta debate myself. Watch it on youtube and play Meruru soon, or endure that painful spring cup garbage, get my 500k cole, play new game plus and speed-run the game to true ending. I have a good guess what true ending will reveal. Spoiler:

Spoiler

Gisela is still alive. That sounds like it would defeat that one touching scene where Totori breaks down in that snow village though.

Or I can just play Meruru and careless about the spoiler. I'm pretty certain of what it is anyway and I doubt Meruru will take away from the scene in Totori when I eventually get to it. Would you say so too, Rurouni?

Spoiler

I would say your guess is correct, so knock yourself out.

Oh and poor Rarutos.
This thread was yours, man.

Good to see you and Rurouni are cool though.

Haha, well I was pretty disappointed but I got over it. Thanks for your concern though!

I promise never to make another OP again, if that makes you feel better. ^^; Atelier Ayesha is all yours!

Curses, if it's the former I need to synthesize more!

I just confirmed it on my 2nd playthrough, you get the recipe automatically after Alchemy Lv. 35

 

[Rarutos]

Haha, thanks. I wanted to do the Ayesha one anyway since I couldn't do this one.

And okay. Now I must synth ALL THE THINGS until level 35. Is there something like the Warp Gate in this game?

 

[RurouniZel]

Haha, thanks. I wanted to do the Ayesha one anyway since I couldn't do this one.

And okay. Now I must synth ALL THE THINGS until level 35. Is there something like the Warp Gate in this game?

Yes, but you have to get even higher, 40 if I recall correctly. That or a Kingdom upgrade. My memory is shit. >>

 

[Rarutos]

Yes, but you have to get even higher, 40 if I recall correctly. That or a Kingdom upgrade. My memory is shit. >>

You mean to synthesize it? It's okay, I might just save scum until I don't mess up synthesizing it!

 

[RurouniZel]

You mean to synthesize it? It's okay, I might just save scum until I don't mess up synthesizing it!

No, I mean to get the recipe. You get the recipe later, but when I got it it was easy to make (barring that I didn't have one of the necessary items at the time >>)

 

[Rarutos]

No, I mean to get the recipe. You get the recipe later, but when I got it it was easy to make (barring that I didn't have one of the necessary items at the time >>)

Oooh, oops. I got confused for a second. Thank you sir!

 

[RurouniZel]

Oooh, oops. I got confused for a second. Thank you sir!

You're welcome.

 

[RurouniZel]

Yep, Warp Gate is auto-learn at Alchemy Lv. 40. Just reconfirmed.

 

[malfcn]

GF is waiting for her copy from Newegg still.

 

[Rarutos]

Yep, Warp Gate is auto-learn at Alchemy Lv. 40. Just reconfirmed.

Where can I get World Spirits, good sir?

 

[RurouniZel]

Where can I get World Spirits, good sir?

Spoiler

Astrid

should sell them. They're pricy though.

 

[Rarutos]

Spoiler

Astrid

should sell them. They're pricy though.

Blargh, she doesn't yet! That means I have to expand the market again. Thank you!

 

[RurouniZel]

Blargh, she doesn't yet! That means I have to expand the market again. Thank you!

Any time! ^_^

EDIT: Actually, I JUST discovered a place where they can be Gathered! If you beat the Dragon Boss at Modis Ruins (he's quite hard), two new areas open. The one called "Farthest Garden" has them.

 

[Rarutos]

Any time! ^_^

EDIT: Actually, I JUST discovered a place where they can be Gathered! If you beat the Dragon Boss at Modis Ruins (he's quite hard), two new areas open. The one called "Farthest Garden" has them.

Oh good, that quest just opened up! Thank you!

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm almost done locking onto at least a Normal End. Almost at 30,000 Population! <3

 

[Coxy]

finally got my copy, such a pretty box!

now do I play it or try to platinum Totori first

 

[Jucksalbe]

Woa, the game arrived today. From the NISA store....to Germany. Neptunia took 3 weeks to arrive.

 

[Volcynika]

Woa, the game arrived today. From the NISA store....to Germany. Neptunia took 3 weeks to arrive.

The magic of Meruru.

Did you use the same type of shipping?

 

[archnemesis]

For some reason the DLC won't be available in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Poland, or Sweden.

 

[Jucksalbe]

The magic of Meruru.

Did you use the same type of shipping?

Yes.

For some reason the DLC won't be available in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Poland, or Sweden.

Isn't that always a problem with NISA's games?

 

[archnemesis]

I don't know since I rarely buy that type of DLC. There are enough support characters in this game as it is and I'm not that fond of Rufus, Hanna and Pamela.