fifasnipe2224
Member
Why I woke up cold and alone this morning:
I would like to explain the current situation I am in and maybe go as far as to ask for advice. Heads up I will give you the full story in phases: The start of the argument, our attempts at compromising, the “event” and the aftermath/current state of my life. Please read in the entirety or skip to the “current state of my life” with a TL;DR for the lazy / short on time.
Our Argument
The short version of it is my GF would like to baptize our child at 8 months old into her religion (Greek Orthodox) and I feel it is best our child chooses her religion at the proper age (although I am still not 100% certain what that age should be.) I believe it should be our child’s choice and not chosen for her. I would like Ashley to learn several religions but focus on math science and school.
In my GF church they host a 40 day introduction for the returning mother and her new born baby as a welcoming back into the church / community. At first I was ok with the idea… until we had a large argument into who should pick out child’s religion (it basically boiled down to my GF thinking it should be her choice and I believe it should be my daughter’s choice.) I then began to view this 40 day introduction as a try of recruitment scheme and I also thought it was a bit inappropriate to have our daughter introduced to a location that I do not want her being an active participant of an a young age nor baptized in at a young age.
Our compromises
My compromise) She can go to her 40 day introduction, we let her decide when and how to be baptized, she can teach her / show her several religions and beliefs (I do not want a close minded religious hating monster) but keep her main focus on math science and school.
Her issue) Since our child will not be baptized she will go to limbo if she dies before her baptism. Most teenagers / adults do not choose the path of religion if it was not offered to them at a young age. She will not be able to celebrate holidays (Easter ,Christmas, ect.) She will lose a bond with her cousins (on her side of the family) since they will all be going to Greek school and masses while our daughter will not be allowed. She also thinks that in Ashley’s early years without religion I will be talking down about “God” and convincing her not to join a religion. Lastly, if Ashley does pick a religion (at let’s say… 17 years old) for 17 years of her life she would be considered atheist and I would be “winning” for those years.
Her compromise) Take the baby to her 40 day introduction, baptize her Greek Orthodox at 8 months of age, and have her celebrate the holidays and teach her the religion as she grows. Also once she is of age she can choose to continue the religion, pick a new one, or simply not participate in any belief.
My issue) The 40 introduction to be feels somewhat like a recruitment tool. I do not want us to choose Ashley’s religion or what she should believe in, especially at 8 months of age. Lastly, I not think that at a certain age a person should not have to think “should I continue what my parents picked for me or choose a new path?” I believe at the appropriate age a person should think “What religion best fits my beliefs?”
*Needless to say we have yet to reach an agreement on this matter
“C’mon man, get to the point!”
Ok… ok…
We need to cover this in two parts (1) Arguments that have happen before the 40 day introduction and (2) The day before and the day of the 40 day introduction.
Part One:
We have had MANY arguments / discussions as to how we should implement religion in our daughters mind. So far I have not once agreed to her plan, and not once have I said “I am not going to win this argument.” So far my GF has agreed three times to my plan (even once in front of her mother) and she has stated twice (while crying) she was not going to win the argument. To this day she denies 2/3 agreements and states that the 3rd most recent agreement was her attempt to “out me” in front of her mother. It is extremely frustrating having such large in depth discussion with a person who is willing to admit defeat and then a day or two later say “I never said I agreed” or my favorite “I said it because I was upset.” I’m sorry but if I have yet to agree with her plan ONCE and she admits my idea is better THREE times them we should stick to my plan. 3-0 is pretty clear.
What scares my GF the most is what happens to us after we die. I always found this topic a bit amusing since (lets be fair) no one truly know what happens when you die (since religion tell you what they want you to think and science has no real way of studying it) but religious people think of our way as either scary or imposable (the idea of NOTHING) and atheist think the religious idea is a bunch of shit. My GF has actually managed to take they pile of shit that her religion wants her to believe and make it even worse… she made up her own rules. That’s right, she does not believe in what her own church tells her what happens after death. To keep it plain and simple you got to heaven if you were good and get reincarnated if you were bad. She is scared of hell, thus it does not exists. Convenient ay? How can I let my daughter be forced into a church by my GF who in fact does not believe some , if not most, of the ideas taught in her church??
She has admitted to me several times that the only reason she is not atheist is because she is scared of nothing, she feels if this is our only life then there is no point to it. She said if this is our one life, and if she believes that, she slips into a depression ad loses all motivation to live… WTF? This is the first I am hearing about this adverse effect on people. For me… it motivates me more! If this is my one shot… then why fuck it up? If I get no second chance… why be risky or careless with this one? If you ask me, her made up version of her religion (no hell: heaven if good or reincarnated if bad) would encourage some pretty at of line behavior. “Why should I be good? I go to heaven. Why should I not be bad?.... lol reincarnation... who cares?!” This is not what I want my daughter to believe, both in her made up belief and the idea that you can pick and choose what happens to you when you die. (Does anyone else have any examples on how atheism and the idea of nothing after death has demotivated a person or lost their will to live?)
My GF has also admitted that the 40 introduction AND EVEN OUR CHILD BAPTISM is all for my GF not for our daughter. “Please do this for me.” “Please let me have this.” “This is for me, not Ashley.” Not once have any my ideas been for what is best for me, or even what is best for the family, they have always 100% been about what is best for my little girl. It frustrates me to know end that she cannot see how she is in the wrong here. Apparently I am a bad guy for thinking of my daughter before myself lol.
She then goes on to state how baptism would save our daughter from limbo. Let me stop right there…. She had made it very clear several times that she believes in only two options after death: reincarnation or heaven. Soooo…. Baptism would help protect our daughter from reincarnation?? Anyways, here is my GF compromised plan for our daughter’s religion: baptism at 8 months and no practice of the religion other than holidays. My plan: baptism when she wants and ho she wants it, and a light practice of the religion, just to get a feel for it, learn it, and see if its something she can believe in. So for any religious people that have manages to read this far down (thank you) if there is a heaven what would give our daughter a bit of an advantage into heaven (I know it’s a silly question) Baptism and no practice or a practice of the faith but no baptism? I guess the point I am trying to make is that any religions person would admit its not that easy.. neither one would be consider acceptable and simply having a babuism DOES NOT INSURE ENTRY INTO HEAVEN.
Part Two, the 40 day introduction event. This is where my life gets twisted upside down…
The day before the introduction
At this point I have made it very clear to my GF that it is not fair that your church is giving us 40 days to introduce our child into a place we are still not sure yet if she will be baptized or even an active participant of. I also told her we cannot move forward with any religious conversation about Ashley until we come to an agreement on her baptism (she wants 8 months, I want Ashley to pick when and where). Basically I told her you do not have my permission to bring my daughter to a 40 introduction until we come to a conclusion on baptism. “But Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, why do you need to have an answer to the baptism before the 40 day introduction??” Well thank you for asking… (1) I do not think it is fair that I am the only one on a deadline regarding our child’s religion, so why not show her how unfair it is. (2) like I have said we should first determine how involved a church or a religion will be in her life BEFORE we introduce her to a church. She then tells me if by tomorrow morning we cannot come to a conclusion she is taking Ashley, our only daughter… just 40 days old, to the introduction. That was a knife in the heart for me. He is basically how I took it, “Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, I am not willing to agree at the moment, so you either agree with me tonight or I am taking our only child to a place you clearly asked me not to. I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, I WANT THIS, AND THERFORE I AM DOING IT.” Not cool.
While I know we are on a deadline and this is something she wants very badly (for herself, not our daughter) I cannot just give into to both her churches rules and her demanding behavior.
We then continued arguing on whether or not she is doing tomorrow and how or if we will baptize her. I then noticed, and confirmed, she was texting her mother and other members of her family (possibly friends as well?) during our arguments and asking for help, advice, and to clarify certain ruling and definitions on her religion. Let me make this very clear… I have told her 1000x times this decision is regarding our daughters future and should be kept between you and me. Both her family and my family wants this kid baptized at an really age and being and active participant in my GF’s church. This gives her a bit of an unfair advantage BUT that is not the reason I want to keep the conversation between me and her. The main reason is, because she’s OUR DAUGHTER… not anybody else’s. I do not want to have to give an explanation or reasoning to my parents, her parents, or anybody else. But here she is… asking other for help on how to convince her boyfriend to bring their 40 day old baby to a church. This made my so upset that she had to seek other peoples help to try out smarting me, but gave me a warm feeling know that I was still clearly “winning” our argument. To be honest I feel extremely confident I can take on any person on either side of our family and win a debate as to whether or not to forcefully babtize a human being at 8 months old.
My GF then goes on to tell me I am being “controlling” over the situation. The logic behind this comment actually made me laugh a bit. I know it was a rude thing to do but seriously… I have never hear anything more silly in my life. I want my daughter to explore, learn, be open minded, and I want her to pick her belief. My GF wants to pick it for her at 8 months old. I am trying to give more choices and control to my daughter while my GF is trying to keep it for herself.
The situation takes a drastic turn, she threatens our relationship. Not out front right away but this little comments like “I think this can make or break us” “I view you differently” “I will hate you if we don’t baptize her.” Yet another example on how our daughter’s belief is all about my GF. She does not think about what’s best for the baby, but here she is thinking of what’s best for our relationship, and what’s best for our relationship? For me to give in to her and her churches demands.
At this point I am trying hard to show her the positives to atheism and having an open mind with a focus school, math, and science. Now she is in full shut down mode. This is the mode just before quitting and then to crying and admitting defeat. This is the hardest mode of them all. She can either wizen up or turn very hateful here. So I tread softly… AND I FUCK IT UP. I don’t know exactly how but she seeming out of nowhere looks at me and says “If I knew you were atheist back when I met you I would never have dated you.” BOOOOOM. She dropped a heavy hitter on me here. I’m sorry but seriously guys…. This is not an appropriate thing to say is it? It’s like saying “If I had known you were Jewish I would not have dated you.” Prejudges am I right??
Needing to take a break from the conversation I then walk up stairs (we were at my parents’ house since we have no power thanks to hurricane Sandy) for a glass of water and am confronted by my father (not very religious, very into family, very traditional, short tempered, you get the picture) and then my mother (a bit more open minded, extremely old school, very religious, but willing to talk it out) My dad then ask “So Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, what will you be wearing tomorrow for the 40 days event?” At this point my jaw is dropped in amazement. My GF went ahead and invited my parents to an event I clearly do not want my daughter going to. An event we are still in conversation about. They then begin to question some of my decisions about my daughter and I abruptly stop them and made it clear… if you want to talk about my faith fine, but you do not have my permission to discuss my daughter’s beliefs. The topic quickly shifts into my belief and why I do not practice the religion they choose for me (Roman Catholic) and they already knew the answer but I said it anyways… I no longer believe. My father then looks at me, his oldest son, and says “If your daughter was not here, you wouldn’t be allowed in my house.” Yup that’s right… since I no longer believe in his religion I am not allowed in his house without his grandchild. My mother then said she deserves an explanation as to my change to atheism since they spent all their time and money on me practicing and learning the religion and I gave it to her. She was a bit heart to hear it and I said something along the lines of this is also another reason I do not want to baptize my children at a young age… waste of time and money.
The conversation did not go well from there. I heard things like “god” kills people with hurricanes to make room for more people… I countered with then why make more people?? To kill them also? They also said “god” saved us in a car accident when I was younger. I countered with “no mom you saved me, by teaching me the importance of wearing a seat belt.” She then counters with “who do you think taught me have wear a seatbelt?” I said school, parents, and government. She said “god” taught her to take care of her children. I then ask “So without god you would not know how to take care of your children?” She said “YES.” I countered with * facepalm *(What else can I mad do?) And lastly I they pretty much forced me to admit that I am an atheist and have been for quite some time. My mother then looks at my father and said the word in Spanish with a nasty face and accent. I then said “why do you have to say it in such a nasty way? Its not a bad word. If atheist is a bad word then so is the word Jewish.” And. Then. She. Said. “well they are very cheap and greedy.” And that’s when I stormed out of the room.
I then go back downstairs, forgetting my cup of water (FML), and confront my GF. I start by saying thank you for basically letting my parents know my personal belief and leading toward my own father, the first man I ever looked up to, stating I am only allowed in his house with my grandchild due to my belief. Asking her why she invited my parents to an event we have not agreed on and who else thinks they are going? She said she set an appointment with the priest of her church earlier that day and that everything is set for Ashley’s introduction. I cannot tell you how back stabbed I was at this point. At this point we are not clear as to the extent of our daughter’s religion and we have wet to work out a fair compromise. So she alone made the decision for our daughter (excuse me… for herself) that Ashley was to be introduced in front of a church tomorrow and both of our families have already been invited.
Here is one of the biggest issues I have now… we reached a road block when it came to 40 days. My GF went behind my back and confirmed the event with a priest and invited members of both sides of the family. Now, what’s to stop her from doing this again? Lets say her 8 months are here and we have yet to reach a decision, I guess my GF will just arrange the event without me and proceed as planned, without my approval. This clearly shows how I am not getting my deserved 50%. This can be applied to anything outside of religion as well. Now I know that if we reach a road block she will execute her decision without my approval… but this is OUR daughter we are talking about! Not what do you want for lunch? What movie to watch? This is a direct decision concerning our daughter’s future.
I then ask her “If you did this all without me and without my approval and without a compromise, how long will you wait to do the same exact thing concerning our child baptism? She said 8 months. Boom. Now I have a deadline of 8 months. 8 Months to convince her that this should be our daughter’s choice, or she will make it for here. *Side note…. Why 8 months?! She knows VERY LITTLE of her own religion. According to her religion Jesus Christ was baptized at 30 years old. C’mon son…. C’mon.
40 Days
The morning of my GF looks at me and states “So can I take her?” And I simply say “no.” She them says “that’s it, I am leaving with Ashley now to my god parents’ house and then taking her to church. And here again we have her making another decision regarding our daughter that I am completely left out of. I said something to the affect of you do not have my permission to take her out of this house. She goes upstairs and starts packing and asking for the baby back. I refuse in a last attempt to talk her out of it. Sadly I know it’s too late, the wheels are already turning. My dad sees that I am refusing to give up my child and walks over and says “Put Ashley in her baby seat now.” Who the fuck is he to tell me what to do with my child?! So I simply told him “Do not tell me what to do with my child.” He then repeats himself. All the time my mom is asking him to stop and my GF is agreeing with him. “Give me Ashley.” I have never felt so powerless in my entire life. My mom looks at me and said “No one is trying to take your baby away.” I point at my dad and say “This one is.” And he loses it. I never that that ALL the comments I have send to him in the best 3 times wound not upset him… but “this one is” apparently tipped him over the edge. He basically said once my GF and Ashley leave for church me and him where going to have a long talk… I laughed and told him I was not going to be here since I am no longer welcomed. She takes the baby, I fight a bit more with her in the car but I am forced to let her drive away with our baby to a place I do not approve, to a place we should have still be talking about, to a place that I firmly believe will not be a positive influence to my child. Watching my baby girl being driven away to this church was the last time I saw her and I have never missed her more.
I call her just moments before the mass and ask her are you really going through with this? She said yes, and I said I am leaving then. I packed up my stuff, left for our place, picked up a few more things and drove off all alone.
MY CURRENT STATE
-A father that basically kicked me out due to the fact we no longer share the same beliefs and the fact that I tried preventing those believes being forced to my child at a young age.
-A GF that I have come to believe is not the right partner for my life and is not the type of person I want raising my daughter.
-I had to sleep in my car all alone last night (I am basically homeless now. Yes it was my choice to leave my GF but she has shown me she really is) thinking what I could have done better and how can I get my girl back but more importantly how can I insurer she is not zombified like her mother.
-Only ONE message from my mom asking me if I am ok. No one else in either side of the family seems to care.
-She is most likely sleeping just fine in her godparent’s house with most of her family… I can’t imagine what type of brain washing pro religion bull shit they are probably feeding her or anti – FIFAsnipe2224 propaganda.
-Most important of all. LAST NIGHT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS WITHOUT MY BABY GIRL. And I hope it’s the last, although I doubt things will get better from here.
TL
R
Please read some if not all of this post
GF wants to baptize our baby, I say let her pick once she is of age, her church wants my GF to bring our baby to a 40 day introduction, I say not unless we come to a conclusion, she refuses to co-operate, says very hurtful and out of line comments, my parents get involve, things get worse, dad kicks me out of the house because I am an atheist, GF sets a date for the 40 introduction without my approve and invited members of my family behind my back, I cannot see myself happy with my GF anymore, I move out, I am homeless, and I miss my baby.
I would like to explain the current situation I am in and maybe go as far as to ask for advice. Heads up I will give you the full story in phases: The start of the argument, our attempts at compromising, the “event” and the aftermath/current state of my life. Please read in the entirety or skip to the “current state of my life” with a TL;DR for the lazy / short on time.
Our Argument
The short version of it is my GF would like to baptize our child at 8 months old into her religion (Greek Orthodox) and I feel it is best our child chooses her religion at the proper age (although I am still not 100% certain what that age should be.) I believe it should be our child’s choice and not chosen for her. I would like Ashley to learn several religions but focus on math science and school.
In my GF church they host a 40 day introduction for the returning mother and her new born baby as a welcoming back into the church / community. At first I was ok with the idea… until we had a large argument into who should pick out child’s religion (it basically boiled down to my GF thinking it should be her choice and I believe it should be my daughter’s choice.) I then began to view this 40 day introduction as a try of recruitment scheme and I also thought it was a bit inappropriate to have our daughter introduced to a location that I do not want her being an active participant of an a young age nor baptized in at a young age.
Our compromises
My compromise) She can go to her 40 day introduction, we let her decide when and how to be baptized, she can teach her / show her several religions and beliefs (I do not want a close minded religious hating monster) but keep her main focus on math science and school.
Her issue) Since our child will not be baptized she will go to limbo if she dies before her baptism. Most teenagers / adults do not choose the path of religion if it was not offered to them at a young age. She will not be able to celebrate holidays (Easter ,Christmas, ect.) She will lose a bond with her cousins (on her side of the family) since they will all be going to Greek school and masses while our daughter will not be allowed. She also thinks that in Ashley’s early years without religion I will be talking down about “God” and convincing her not to join a religion. Lastly, if Ashley does pick a religion (at let’s say… 17 years old) for 17 years of her life she would be considered atheist and I would be “winning” for those years.
Her compromise) Take the baby to her 40 day introduction, baptize her Greek Orthodox at 8 months of age, and have her celebrate the holidays and teach her the religion as she grows. Also once she is of age she can choose to continue the religion, pick a new one, or simply not participate in any belief.
My issue) The 40 introduction to be feels somewhat like a recruitment tool. I do not want us to choose Ashley’s religion or what she should believe in, especially at 8 months of age. Lastly, I not think that at a certain age a person should not have to think “should I continue what my parents picked for me or choose a new path?” I believe at the appropriate age a person should think “What religion best fits my beliefs?”
*Needless to say we have yet to reach an agreement on this matter
“C’mon man, get to the point!”
Ok… ok…
We need to cover this in two parts (1) Arguments that have happen before the 40 day introduction and (2) The day before and the day of the 40 day introduction.
Part One:
We have had MANY arguments / discussions as to how we should implement religion in our daughters mind. So far I have not once agreed to her plan, and not once have I said “I am not going to win this argument.” So far my GF has agreed three times to my plan (even once in front of her mother) and she has stated twice (while crying) she was not going to win the argument. To this day she denies 2/3 agreements and states that the 3rd most recent agreement was her attempt to “out me” in front of her mother. It is extremely frustrating having such large in depth discussion with a person who is willing to admit defeat and then a day or two later say “I never said I agreed” or my favorite “I said it because I was upset.” I’m sorry but if I have yet to agree with her plan ONCE and she admits my idea is better THREE times them we should stick to my plan. 3-0 is pretty clear.
What scares my GF the most is what happens to us after we die. I always found this topic a bit amusing since (lets be fair) no one truly know what happens when you die (since religion tell you what they want you to think and science has no real way of studying it) but religious people think of our way as either scary or imposable (the idea of NOTHING) and atheist think the religious idea is a bunch of shit. My GF has actually managed to take they pile of shit that her religion wants her to believe and make it even worse… she made up her own rules. That’s right, she does not believe in what her own church tells her what happens after death. To keep it plain and simple you got to heaven if you were good and get reincarnated if you were bad. She is scared of hell, thus it does not exists. Convenient ay? How can I let my daughter be forced into a church by my GF who in fact does not believe some , if not most, of the ideas taught in her church??
She has admitted to me several times that the only reason she is not atheist is because she is scared of nothing, she feels if this is our only life then there is no point to it. She said if this is our one life, and if she believes that, she slips into a depression ad loses all motivation to live… WTF? This is the first I am hearing about this adverse effect on people. For me… it motivates me more! If this is my one shot… then why fuck it up? If I get no second chance… why be risky or careless with this one? If you ask me, her made up version of her religion (no hell: heaven if good or reincarnated if bad) would encourage some pretty at of line behavior. “Why should I be good? I go to heaven. Why should I not be bad?.... lol reincarnation... who cares?!” This is not what I want my daughter to believe, both in her made up belief and the idea that you can pick and choose what happens to you when you die. (Does anyone else have any examples on how atheism and the idea of nothing after death has demotivated a person or lost their will to live?)
My GF has also admitted that the 40 introduction AND EVEN OUR CHILD BAPTISM is all for my GF not for our daughter. “Please do this for me.” “Please let me have this.” “This is for me, not Ashley.” Not once have any my ideas been for what is best for me, or even what is best for the family, they have always 100% been about what is best for my little girl. It frustrates me to know end that she cannot see how she is in the wrong here. Apparently I am a bad guy for thinking of my daughter before myself lol.
She then goes on to state how baptism would save our daughter from limbo. Let me stop right there…. She had made it very clear several times that she believes in only two options after death: reincarnation or heaven. Soooo…. Baptism would help protect our daughter from reincarnation?? Anyways, here is my GF compromised plan for our daughter’s religion: baptism at 8 months and no practice of the religion other than holidays. My plan: baptism when she wants and ho she wants it, and a light practice of the religion, just to get a feel for it, learn it, and see if its something she can believe in. So for any religious people that have manages to read this far down (thank you) if there is a heaven what would give our daughter a bit of an advantage into heaven (I know it’s a silly question) Baptism and no practice or a practice of the faith but no baptism? I guess the point I am trying to make is that any religions person would admit its not that easy.. neither one would be consider acceptable and simply having a babuism DOES NOT INSURE ENTRY INTO HEAVEN.
Part Two, the 40 day introduction event. This is where my life gets twisted upside down…
The day before the introduction
At this point I have made it very clear to my GF that it is not fair that your church is giving us 40 days to introduce our child into a place we are still not sure yet if she will be baptized or even an active participant of. I also told her we cannot move forward with any religious conversation about Ashley until we come to an agreement on her baptism (she wants 8 months, I want Ashley to pick when and where). Basically I told her you do not have my permission to bring my daughter to a 40 introduction until we come to a conclusion on baptism. “But Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, why do you need to have an answer to the baptism before the 40 day introduction??” Well thank you for asking… (1) I do not think it is fair that I am the only one on a deadline regarding our child’s religion, so why not show her how unfair it is. (2) like I have said we should first determine how involved a church or a religion will be in her life BEFORE we introduce her to a church. She then tells me if by tomorrow morning we cannot come to a conclusion she is taking Ashley, our only daughter… just 40 days old, to the introduction. That was a knife in the heart for me. He is basically how I took it, “Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, I am not willing to agree at the moment, so you either agree with me tonight or I am taking our only child to a place you clearly asked me not to. I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, I WANT THIS, AND THERFORE I AM DOING IT.” Not cool.
While I know we are on a deadline and this is something she wants very badly (for herself, not our daughter) I cannot just give into to both her churches rules and her demanding behavior.
We then continued arguing on whether or not she is doing tomorrow and how or if we will baptize her. I then noticed, and confirmed, she was texting her mother and other members of her family (possibly friends as well?) during our arguments and asking for help, advice, and to clarify certain ruling and definitions on her religion. Let me make this very clear… I have told her 1000x times this decision is regarding our daughters future and should be kept between you and me. Both her family and my family wants this kid baptized at an really age and being and active participant in my GF’s church. This gives her a bit of an unfair advantage BUT that is not the reason I want to keep the conversation between me and her. The main reason is, because she’s OUR DAUGHTER… not anybody else’s. I do not want to have to give an explanation or reasoning to my parents, her parents, or anybody else. But here she is… asking other for help on how to convince her boyfriend to bring their 40 day old baby to a church. This made my so upset that she had to seek other peoples help to try out smarting me, but gave me a warm feeling know that I was still clearly “winning” our argument. To be honest I feel extremely confident I can take on any person on either side of our family and win a debate as to whether or not to forcefully babtize a human being at 8 months old.
My GF then goes on to tell me I am being “controlling” over the situation. The logic behind this comment actually made me laugh a bit. I know it was a rude thing to do but seriously… I have never hear anything more silly in my life. I want my daughter to explore, learn, be open minded, and I want her to pick her belief. My GF wants to pick it for her at 8 months old. I am trying to give more choices and control to my daughter while my GF is trying to keep it for herself.
The situation takes a drastic turn, she threatens our relationship. Not out front right away but this little comments like “I think this can make or break us” “I view you differently” “I will hate you if we don’t baptize her.” Yet another example on how our daughter’s belief is all about my GF. She does not think about what’s best for the baby, but here she is thinking of what’s best for our relationship, and what’s best for our relationship? For me to give in to her and her churches demands.
At this point I am trying hard to show her the positives to atheism and having an open mind with a focus school, math, and science. Now she is in full shut down mode. This is the mode just before quitting and then to crying and admitting defeat. This is the hardest mode of them all. She can either wizen up or turn very hateful here. So I tread softly… AND I FUCK IT UP. I don’t know exactly how but she seeming out of nowhere looks at me and says “If I knew you were atheist back when I met you I would never have dated you.” BOOOOOM. She dropped a heavy hitter on me here. I’m sorry but seriously guys…. This is not an appropriate thing to say is it? It’s like saying “If I had known you were Jewish I would not have dated you.” Prejudges am I right??
Needing to take a break from the conversation I then walk up stairs (we were at my parents’ house since we have no power thanks to hurricane Sandy) for a glass of water and am confronted by my father (not very religious, very into family, very traditional, short tempered, you get the picture) and then my mother (a bit more open minded, extremely old school, very religious, but willing to talk it out) My dad then ask “So Mr. FIFAsnipe2224, what will you be wearing tomorrow for the 40 days event?” At this point my jaw is dropped in amazement. My GF went ahead and invited my parents to an event I clearly do not want my daughter going to. An event we are still in conversation about. They then begin to question some of my decisions about my daughter and I abruptly stop them and made it clear… if you want to talk about my faith fine, but you do not have my permission to discuss my daughter’s beliefs. The topic quickly shifts into my belief and why I do not practice the religion they choose for me (Roman Catholic) and they already knew the answer but I said it anyways… I no longer believe. My father then looks at me, his oldest son, and says “If your daughter was not here, you wouldn’t be allowed in my house.” Yup that’s right… since I no longer believe in his religion I am not allowed in his house without his grandchild. My mother then said she deserves an explanation as to my change to atheism since they spent all their time and money on me practicing and learning the religion and I gave it to her. She was a bit heart to hear it and I said something along the lines of this is also another reason I do not want to baptize my children at a young age… waste of time and money.
The conversation did not go well from there. I heard things like “god” kills people with hurricanes to make room for more people… I countered with then why make more people?? To kill them also? They also said “god” saved us in a car accident when I was younger. I countered with “no mom you saved me, by teaching me the importance of wearing a seat belt.” She then counters with “who do you think taught me have wear a seatbelt?” I said school, parents, and government. She said “god” taught her to take care of her children. I then ask “So without god you would not know how to take care of your children?” She said “YES.” I countered with * facepalm *(What else can I mad do?) And lastly I they pretty much forced me to admit that I am an atheist and have been for quite some time. My mother then looks at my father and said the word in Spanish with a nasty face and accent. I then said “why do you have to say it in such a nasty way? Its not a bad word. If atheist is a bad word then so is the word Jewish.” And. Then. She. Said. “well they are very cheap and greedy.” And that’s when I stormed out of the room.
I then go back downstairs, forgetting my cup of water (FML), and confront my GF. I start by saying thank you for basically letting my parents know my personal belief and leading toward my own father, the first man I ever looked up to, stating I am only allowed in his house with my grandchild due to my belief. Asking her why she invited my parents to an event we have not agreed on and who else thinks they are going? She said she set an appointment with the priest of her church earlier that day and that everything is set for Ashley’s introduction. I cannot tell you how back stabbed I was at this point. At this point we are not clear as to the extent of our daughter’s religion and we have wet to work out a fair compromise. So she alone made the decision for our daughter (excuse me… for herself) that Ashley was to be introduced in front of a church tomorrow and both of our families have already been invited.
Here is one of the biggest issues I have now… we reached a road block when it came to 40 days. My GF went behind my back and confirmed the event with a priest and invited members of both sides of the family. Now, what’s to stop her from doing this again? Lets say her 8 months are here and we have yet to reach a decision, I guess my GF will just arrange the event without me and proceed as planned, without my approval. This clearly shows how I am not getting my deserved 50%. This can be applied to anything outside of religion as well. Now I know that if we reach a road block she will execute her decision without my approval… but this is OUR daughter we are talking about! Not what do you want for lunch? What movie to watch? This is a direct decision concerning our daughter’s future.
I then ask her “If you did this all without me and without my approval and without a compromise, how long will you wait to do the same exact thing concerning our child baptism? She said 8 months. Boom. Now I have a deadline of 8 months. 8 Months to convince her that this should be our daughter’s choice, or she will make it for here. *Side note…. Why 8 months?! She knows VERY LITTLE of her own religion. According to her religion Jesus Christ was baptized at 30 years old. C’mon son…. C’mon.
40 Days
The morning of my GF looks at me and states “So can I take her?” And I simply say “no.” She them says “that’s it, I am leaving with Ashley now to my god parents’ house and then taking her to church. And here again we have her making another decision regarding our daughter that I am completely left out of. I said something to the affect of you do not have my permission to take her out of this house. She goes upstairs and starts packing and asking for the baby back. I refuse in a last attempt to talk her out of it. Sadly I know it’s too late, the wheels are already turning. My dad sees that I am refusing to give up my child and walks over and says “Put Ashley in her baby seat now.” Who the fuck is he to tell me what to do with my child?! So I simply told him “Do not tell me what to do with my child.” He then repeats himself. All the time my mom is asking him to stop and my GF is agreeing with him. “Give me Ashley.” I have never felt so powerless in my entire life. My mom looks at me and said “No one is trying to take your baby away.” I point at my dad and say “This one is.” And he loses it. I never that that ALL the comments I have send to him in the best 3 times wound not upset him… but “this one is” apparently tipped him over the edge. He basically said once my GF and Ashley leave for church me and him where going to have a long talk… I laughed and told him I was not going to be here since I am no longer welcomed. She takes the baby, I fight a bit more with her in the car but I am forced to let her drive away with our baby to a place I do not approve, to a place we should have still be talking about, to a place that I firmly believe will not be a positive influence to my child. Watching my baby girl being driven away to this church was the last time I saw her and I have never missed her more.
I call her just moments before the mass and ask her are you really going through with this? She said yes, and I said I am leaving then. I packed up my stuff, left for our place, picked up a few more things and drove off all alone.
MY CURRENT STATE
-A father that basically kicked me out due to the fact we no longer share the same beliefs and the fact that I tried preventing those believes being forced to my child at a young age.
-A GF that I have come to believe is not the right partner for my life and is not the type of person I want raising my daughter.
-I had to sleep in my car all alone last night (I am basically homeless now. Yes it was my choice to leave my GF but she has shown me she really is) thinking what I could have done better and how can I get my girl back but more importantly how can I insurer she is not zombified like her mother.
-Only ONE message from my mom asking me if I am ok. No one else in either side of the family seems to care.
-She is most likely sleeping just fine in her godparent’s house with most of her family… I can’t imagine what type of brain washing pro religion bull shit they are probably feeding her or anti – FIFAsnipe2224 propaganda.
-Most important of all. LAST NIGHT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS WITHOUT MY BABY GIRL. And I hope it’s the last, although I doubt things will get better from here.
TL
RPlease read some if not all of this post
GF wants to baptize our baby, I say let her pick once she is of age, her church wants my GF to bring our baby to a 40 day introduction, I say not unless we come to a conclusion, she refuses to co-operate, says very hurtful and out of line comments, my parents get involve, things get worse, dad kicks me out of the house because I am an atheist, GF sets a date for the 40 introduction without my approve and invited members of my family behind my back, I cannot see myself happy with my GF anymore, I move out, I am homeless, and I miss my baby.
