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Atheist GAF, I seek your help!
- Thread starter fifasnipe2224
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Sounds like you shouldn't have had that child OP.
Well, if what the OP said is true his GF sounds like a real sweetheart too.
Well, if what the OP said is true his GF sounds like a real sweetheart too.
99% chance your kids end up not being Catholic or Catholic in name only
echoshifting
Banned
Man, she must have been a beast in the sack.
A monster dude? You are basically guaranteeing your daughter will stick to Greek Orthodox if that is your attitude.
They seem better off without you.
We're piling on him because for someone who calls themselves an atheist, who tend to be more rational human beings, he is being very unrational.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Did you read the full post? (I dont blame you if you did not)
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Long post, but I read it all.
Agreed.
Pretty much this. Had you simply let it happen, you would still be in the relationship and living with your daughter. Being there as she grows up, you would be able to teach her rationalism and logical thought to the point where she could decide for herself despite whatever your GF or families push on her.
I was raised Christian, but once I got to college I began questioning, reading, learning, and now I'm squarely atheist. Twenty years of being raised Christian didn't prevent me from making my own choices. Now it will be much harder for you to help guide her. But I am proud of you for standing your ground for what you believe in. That took guts and strength, despite the outcome.
Agreed.
Pretty much this. Had you simply let it happen, you would still be in the relationship and living with your daughter. Being there as she grows up, you would be able to teach her rationalism and logical thought to the point where she could decide for herself despite whatever your GF or families push on her.
I was raised Christian, but once I got to college I began questioning, reading, learning, and now I'm squarely atheist. Twenty years of being raised Christian didn't prevent me from making my own choices. Now it will be much harder for you to help guide her. But I am proud of you for standing your ground for what you believe in. That took guts and strength, despite the outcome.
This never came up before you guys had a baby?
No i did not read the whole thing, but seems pretty stupid. Its like being together and you want to get married and all of the sudden you find out she is catholic or whatever.
God im glad 99% of the people here dont care about religion at all, makes shit much easier.
No i did not read the whole thing, but seems pretty stupid. Its like being together and you want to get married and all of the sudden you find out she is catholic or whatever.
God im glad 99% of the people here dont care about religion at all, makes shit much easier.
Exactly, and it won't bother me one way or another.
I did. You should've just let your kid be baptized because it ultimately doesn't mean anything and you would have destroyed your relationship with your GF and your parents.
fifasnipe2224
Member
NVM, clearly did not read the entire post.
I did read your fucking post. I still think you're an idiot.
SugarDaddy
Member
Why didn't you just settle for "baptism, but no religious practice except for major holidays"? Seriously, that's as good of a compromise anyone can hope to get in this situation. There really is no reason why being baptized has to be as big of a deal as you're making it out to be...
saltinekracka
Member
Don't date outside your own belief system.
cut off your nose to spite your face
SugarDaddy
Member
DISAGREE WITH THE OP
OMG U DIDNT READ ENTIRE POST.
Fuck off, OP. Get off GAF, go home and fix your shitty situation yourself. You're asking for help, and we're giving you advice, and you're still being stubborn.
spandexmonkey
Banned
Sounds like you finally had a lot of conversations you should have had prior to having a child. As an athiest you have to submit to whatever religious traditions your surroundings demand until you are independant enough to live without them.
Is your girl friend Greek American? The church in Greek culture is extremely important, more for social and cultural reasons, than it is for religious reasons (a fact which never fails to annoy the extremely conservative American converts to Greek Orthodoxy that I know). My guess is that she wants your baby to participate in the various Greek Orthodox rituals to tie her into the community and family that your wife grew up in. As someone who grew up in that community and culture, I don't really see a harm in doing this. Note: I am now a "strong" atheist who still goes to my local Greek Orthodox church, just for the community and cultural benefits of doing so.
I stopped believing in the religious "truths" as it was taught by my church (and other churches) when I learned about science and sat down and thought about the philosophical and logical problems with the concept of an all-powerful, all-good being (also being lied to by my Catholic school teachers was also an eye-opener). I am very glad that I'm a member of my church, although I believe I am probably an a frustration to my priest (heh), and I know that I annoy the American converts (who are, to a person, the most conservative members of the church, from a religious and personal perspective). I've met a lot of great people and I've participated in a lot of events benefiting my community that were organized by people at the church and, given that the practice of Greek Orthodoxy (as I've experienced it anyway) has not been one of fervent evangelism or fundamentalism (e.g., Baptists and hard-core Roman Catholics), I've happily continued ignoring the "letter" of Greek Orthodox belief and practicing the spirit behind it: loving and caring for the fellow members of the community.
My advice would be to go along with your girlfriend (also probably to get married, since that will legitimize your relationship and your daughter in the eyes of some in the community, depending on how many old/traditional people are there) and then to both challenge and be there for your daughter when she begins to confront the big questions in life like "why are we here" and "is there a god". It was a great comfort to me growing up and in the development of my own thoughts about god and religion, to see that my Dad, born, baptized, and raised in the Greek Orthodox church and a frequent attendee to all the services at his local church, thinks the gospels and all the religious panoply are just guides to living a certain morality and were not dictated by a man in the sky. It helped me to realize that it was ok to have doubts about what I was learning in Sunday School.
Congratulations on your daughter. I would make up with your wife and then be there for your daughter when she grows up and let her know that it's ok (and right) to question what she's being taught.
I stopped believing in the religious "truths" as it was taught by my church (and other churches) when I learned about science and sat down and thought about the philosophical and logical problems with the concept of an all-powerful, all-good being (also being lied to by my Catholic school teachers was also an eye-opener). I am very glad that I'm a member of my church, although I believe I am probably an a frustration to my priest (heh), and I know that I annoy the American converts (who are, to a person, the most conservative members of the church, from a religious and personal perspective). I've met a lot of great people and I've participated in a lot of events benefiting my community that were organized by people at the church and, given that the practice of Greek Orthodoxy (as I've experienced it anyway) has not been one of fervent evangelism or fundamentalism (e.g., Baptists and hard-core Roman Catholics), I've happily continued ignoring the "letter" of Greek Orthodox belief and practicing the spirit behind it: loving and caring for the fellow members of the community.
My advice would be to go along with your girlfriend (also probably to get married, since that will legitimize your relationship and your daughter in the eyes of some in the community, depending on how many old/traditional people are there) and then to both challenge and be there for your daughter when she begins to confront the big questions in life like "why are we here" and "is there a god". It was a great comfort to me growing up and in the development of my own thoughts about god and religion, to see that my Dad, born, baptized, and raised in the Greek Orthodox church and a frequent attendee to all the services at his local church, thinks the gospels and all the religious panoply are just guides to living a certain morality and were not dictated by a man in the sky. It helped me to realize that it was ok to have doubts about what I was learning in Sunday School.
Congratulations on your daughter. I would make up with your wife and then be there for your daughter when she grows up and let her know that it's ok (and right) to question what she's being taught.
I was baptised a Roman Catholic, did my communion and when to a Catholic Elementary School, yet I still decided to be an Atheist. You can teach your little girl to have a healthy dose of critisism for the stories she hears from her mother and other sources and she can make up her own mind in the end. As others have said, she'll still end up an atheist or a non-religious theist, religion is slowly losing ground. More quickly with each generation though, thanks to our age of information exposing humans to outside opinions and information. Don't worry about it and let the mother win this one, it's really not worth the argument.
I'm an atheist too (more of an apatheist) and my opinion is pretty much in line with everyone else.. e.g. Why do you give a shit if she wants to baptize the baby? I was baptized and it doesn't mean shit today.
Usually you talk these sorts of things out before having children, but from the sounds of things this child was unexpected. Unfortunate situation for you. My only advice for you now is to stop being so melodramatic and to consider what's at stake here.
Usually you talk these sorts of things out before having children, but from the sounds of things this child was unexpected. Unfortunate situation for you. My only advice for you now is to stop being so melodramatic and to consider what's at stake here.
Pretty much this and this goes for no matter what you believe, christians tell other christians this so every other group may as well do the same. In all honesty it makes things less complicated in a relationship for all parties, well unless you like that disney channel drama lol.
plagiarize
Banned
I didn't read every part of the OP, but I sure read that part where he chose to move out because he felt unwelcome, contradictory to his summary where he says his dad 'basically threw him out'.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I can't pretend to understand the exact circumstances, but personally I didn't care to fight for my son not being baptized. I was raised Catholic but don't believe now, and my wife was raised... hold on a second... Methodist, I think? The latter is where my son was baptized. I've been to a service twice in the last year, once for his baptism, and once for Christmas.
Yep, time to swallow your pride and apologize for blowing this out of proportion.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Why do you say that? Just because he doesn't see her as being as bad as you make her out to be?
He probably sees the same thing that I saw in your post, in that you are just as closed minded and "fanatical" in your beliefs as she (and the family) is in theirs. Just because you disagree with her does not make her a monster. She might be close minded and acting out of peer pressure and fear, but you have backed her up against a wall. You want her to compromise yet you are unwilling to on your own end? Seriously, what harm would it have done to let the infant get baptized? As an atheist you already believe it means nothing, so why the big huge reaction on your end?
Now, her ability to backstab you and completely ignore your own feelings and concerns, that's another issue entirely. It doesn't make her a monster, just a selfish spoiled scared little girl. She is the mother of your child though, that is never going to change. I suggest you start learning how to tolerate her and treat her with some semblance of respect, for your daughter's sake. And that respect goes for you gf's beliefs as well.
SugarDaddy
Member
Lmao, right...?
Apologize for being a stubborn asshole, OP. That's my advice; take it or leave it.
plagiarize
Banned
all your own decisions. all of them.
cutmeamango
Banned
Good enough to date and have a baby.
Terrible to have a daughter that may end up just like her.
Because no one wants to have a baby with their own daughter, right?
Terrible to have a daughter that may end up just like her.
Because no one wants to have a baby with their own daughter, right?
CrudeDiatribe
Member
For a long time I thought this would happen to me; but she's now an atheist and we haven't had a kid yet. My plan would have to let her take the kid to church, etc, but that I would not participate and would encourage the child to think for himself or herself.
This is fucking stupid. I hate this line of thinking.
It should be don't date outside your own belief system if you're not willing to compromise and concede an argument every now an then.
Look - I get why you're upset OP, basically you got fucked pretty hard for having a position that your girlfriend and the rest of your family dislike -so- much that they don't want you around because of it. And your girlfriend didn't do right by you, going to your parents behind your back.
That being said - you need to find the path of least resistance here. As the saying goes, lose the battle and win the war, don't let pride be your downfall here.
For the sake of your child, try reconciling with your girlfriend. Talk to her, let her know just how hard this is for you, and how alienated and ostracised you feel because of it all, and explain to her why her 'going behind your back' bothered you so much. I don't think you should swallow ALL of your pride.
But, at the same time, let her know that if it's this essential, you'll do your absolute best to compromise for the sake of the child. That you won't speak poorly of religion behind your girlfriends back, and you won't try to 'poison her against it' as it were. But that if your daughter approaches you, and asks you questions about your belief (or lack there of) that you won't sugar coat it and you'll discuss it with her without holding back.
I understand you feel strongly, and that's fair, I would too - but don't let those feelings ruin you.
That being said - you need to find the path of least resistance here. As the saying goes, lose the battle and win the war, don't let pride be your downfall here.
For the sake of your child, try reconciling with your girlfriend. Talk to her, let her know just how hard this is for you, and how alienated and ostracised you feel because of it all, and explain to her why her 'going behind your back' bothered you so much. I don't think you should swallow ALL of your pride.
But, at the same time, let her know that if it's this essential, you'll do your absolute best to compromise for the sake of the child. That you won't speak poorly of religion behind your girlfriends back, and you won't try to 'poison her against it' as it were. But that if your daughter approaches you, and asks you questions about your belief (or lack there of) that you won't sugar coat it and you'll discuss it with her without holding back.
I understand you feel strongly, and that's fair, I would too - but don't let those feelings ruin you.
questionmark
Member
Would you mind explaining this? Who are better off without him, aside from his gf (and vice versa)? As far as I can see, the only person he wronged was himself, for getting himself into this situation, unnecessarily.
Buddha Beam
Banned
Let me give you some general relationship advice here, OP: just let your partner have her way. If this is THAT important to her, let her have it. The child will eventually be old enough to ask you questions that run counter to her faith and - rest assured - she will. If she was baptized as a baby or not is insignificant.
Misterinenja
Member
Agree to do it but demand a second baptism with goat blood. Say it's your pagan spiritual rite.
Being baptized doesn't mean anything. I was baptized Anglican. My wife was baptized Protestant, and even when to church and Sunday school as a little kid. Neither of us are religious, and neither of our families care. If your girlfriend is a fairweather Christian, none of the religious stuff that your daughter participates in as a child will stick. She will grow up and make up her own mind like everyone else.
tl:dr version:
Except OP lost his family as a result.
Simpson kids...baptism...diddily diddily!
Is it really meaningless or harmless though? It's the first step towards turning the child into her mother. Or into the guy's family who is willing to kick out their son because he doesn't have the same beliefs. Give these people an inch and they'll take a mile and call you a monster for not letting them take two.
Though, whether or not the harm in allowing the baptism is less than the harm of being removed from the child's life entirely is obvious. So I guess I agree that he should have let it go and subverted the child's religiosity by teaching reason and logic as she grew older.
Now I fear that he'll be in a position of limited visiting rights, depending on where he lives, and thus have little recourse against the indoctrination of his daughter.
yeah, time to grovel
You are atheist, you are supposed to be the rational one. If you don't belive there is a god, then you must be able to view religion as an expression of cultural heritage. I think that you placed way too much importance on this.
I think you would have won your kid over anyway, about at 13 when the options are either follow mom to church or stay at home with you to watch football. Or whatever.
You are atheist, you are supposed to be the rational one. If you don't belive there is a god, then you must be able to view religion as an expression of cultural heritage. I think that you placed way too much importance on this.
I think you would have won your kid over anyway, about at 13 when the options are either follow mom to church or stay at home with you to watch football. Or whatever.
Thats basically what I said, in the long run it could still lead to the same thing so its best just not to get involved to begin with if you're thinking long term.
Devolution
Member
I don't understand why this topic is coming up now. Did you and the gf never have a long chat about your expectations when it comes to your differing belief systems?
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