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[In Cold Blood]

Gotham knights that hardly runs on PC?

Wild hearts that has issues on the best pcs out there.....

Dead space has a lot less drops and consistently runs better....

The tide was turning and the xbox versions were all running better and in some cases with higher resolutions but we have had a couple of outstanders this year that are from smaller unknown devs and a game with a huge Sony marketing push.

A new patch just came out for atomic heart so it looks like the dev is working hard to fix the issues at least, I wonder how the incredible techies on the forum will explain how the xbox manages to get fixed from patches and its obviously the software at fault not the hardware.

anyone with half a brain cell knows, its one version lacking development resources from the actual developer But I do wonder how posters like Lysandros come up with excuses for themselves when a game is patched to being fixed and iturnsns out their paragraphs of tech talk had nothing to do with it, and it was simple software....

There is a correlation with some games being unoptimised on both the Xbox and PC compared to PS5.
This could mean the PS5 was lead platform, or it could mean that devs are having issues with DX12U, considering that is uses on both Xbox and PC games.
Alot of devs have the opinion of close enough, good enough for PC games. Because there are so many different configurations of RAM, GPU and CPU, they aren't going to sit there and optimise every single possible set up. Close enough is good enough. Want better performance? Upgrade your PC.
With the Xbox sitting in the middle of that, it gets what it's given.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The tide was turning and the xbox versions were all running better and in some cases with higher resolutions but we have had a couple of outstanders this year that are from smaller unknown devs and a game with a huge Sony marketing push.

A new patch just came out for atomic heart so it looks like the dev is working hard to fix the issues at least, I wonder how the incredible techies on the forum will explain how the xbox manages to get fixed from patches and its obviously the software at fault not the hardware.

anyone with half a brain cell knows, its one version lacking development resources from the actual developer But I do wonder how posters like Lysandros come up with excuses for themselves when a game is patched to being fixed and iturnsns out their paragraphs of tech talk had nothing to do with it, and it was simple software....

The tide was turning?

Anyways, just to address one thing you said. The bolded part.

You see what makes your entire argument fall flat? It's that you seem to think the software and the hardware are two different things. They aren't.

Of course, the hardware is capable. But as is with every hardware, its the software that drives it. How easy, difficult, straightforward, or complicated it is to implement software on any given hardware set is just as integral to the issue as anything else. So of course things get `fixed` with software, but that is only necessitated to begin with because the platform requires more work than the opposing platform.

Didn't anyone learn anything from the PS3? You can have the most powerful and capable hardware on the planet, but if it's hard to build for, or complicated, or your tools or APIs have to much overhead....etc, it would always take more work to get similar results compared to an easier to build platform... worse so better results.

The bottom line is this, in the going on three years of these consoles being out, there are more multiplatform games in which the PS5 is the better-performing version. And aversions are n development for the same period of time, But for whatever reason, the PS5 version, more times than not, seems to come out the gate in better shape. My money is on it just being easier to work on. Yours seem to be on it being the lead platform... which is something I know won't ever be the case when talking about anything that starts its life on the PC as does most multiplatform games anyways. I mean this game is on GP for crying out loud.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The tide was turning?

Anyways, just to address one thing you said. The bolded part.

You see what makes your entire argument fall flat? It's that you seem to think the software and the hardware are two different things. They aren't.

Of course, the hardware is capable. But as is with every hardware, its the software that drives it. How easy, difficult, straightforward, or complicated it is to implement software on any given hardware set is just as integral to the issue as anything else. So of course things get `fixed` with software, but that is only necessitated to begin with because the platform requires more work than the opposing platform.

Didn't anyone learn anything from the PS3? You can have the most powerful and capable hardware on the planet, but if it's hard to build for, or complicated, or your tools or APIs have to much overhead....etc, it would always take more work to get similar results compared to an easier to build platform... worse so better results.

The bottom line is this, in the going on three years of these consoles being out, there are more multiplatform games in which the PS5 is the better-performing version. And aversions are n development for the same period of time, But for whatever reason, the PS5 version, more times than not, seems to come out the gate in better shape. My money is on it just being easier to work on. Yours seem to be on it being the lead platform... which is something I know won't ever be the case when talking about anything that starts its life on the PC as does most multiplatform games anyways. I mean this game is on GP for crying out loud.

This post makes a lot of sense but implying the series X could be any where close to the ps3, with its terrible split memory pool of 256mb memory and the absolute ball ache of a cell processor, isn't a great look.

These are x86 processors, the only issue is that devs really aren't working to learn direct x12 properly...which a lot of professionals are struggling to understand, why?

PC versions and xbox versions are suffering due to this in a market where PC is getting bigger than it ever has been.

I do agree that Sony have done an amazing job by basically using the same API as the ps4 so devs have years of experience with the platform and its paying off.

No idea what's going in with the industry to give PC and Xbox the short end of the stick. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Lyrical]

I remember how social media made it seem like the SX was going to blow the PS5 out the water. Now it's the devs fault hey. You have to give it to Sony, they made one hell of a machine.

 

[Duchess]

the only issue is that devs really aren't working to learn direct x12 properly...which a lot of professionals are struggling to understand, why?

I high level Google search suggests to me that it's harder to learn than 11. It's certainly much more powerful, but that power is coming at a price that it seems a lot of devs simply don't feel is worth it.

 

[onQ123]

So we back at "Tools" lol

All the scapegoats just make it look worse for Xbox .

If you blame the API you're hurting the DirectX brand

If you blame it on the fact that devs are spending more time on PS5 & not optimizing for Xbox Series X you should worry about it getting even worse for Xbox Series X in the future because PS5 is selling a lot more now so they might not even waste time on the Series X .

 

[azertydu91]

So we back at "Tools" lol

All the scapegoats just make it look worse for Xbox .

If you blame the API you're hurting the DirectX brand

If you blame it on the fact that devs are spending more time on PS5 & not optimizing for Xbox Series X you should worry about it getting even worse for Xbox Series X in the future because PS5 is selling a lot more now so they might not even waste time on the Series X .

Yep as always, it is kinda getting tiring having the same arguments by fanboys...If the Xbox is ahead it is because it is better but if the ps5 is ahead there will be a millions excuses as to why.
And most sensible people will only acknowledge that it is probably one of the closest gen there ever was but some people are stilll stuck on the 12>10, just like HP tells you everything aabout a car of course....

 

[DenchDeckard]

So we back at "Tools" lol

All the scapegoats just make it look worse for Xbox .

If you blame the API you're hurting the DirectX brand

If you blame it on the fact that devs are spending more time on PS5 & not optimizing for Xbox Series X you should worry about it getting even worse for Xbox Series X in the future because PS5 is selling a lot more now so they might not even waste time on the Series X .

So explain the issues with Direct X12 and PC then? it's pretty obvious the issue lies with Direct X12 so there shouldnt be an issue in highlighting the flaws with the "direct x" brand. Especially in unreal engine titles.

 

[onQ123]

So explain the issues with Direct X12 and PC then? it's pretty obvious the issue lies with Direct X12 so there shouldnt be an issue in highlighting the flaws with the "direct x" brand. Especially in unreal engine titles.

ON PC it has to work with millions of configurations that has nothing to do with it on Microsoft's own hardware that only has 2 configurations

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's okay, we're still only just well into the third year of the current console generation.
All those multiplatform games making use of that spectacular checklist of features (that Microsoft overhyped and people here barely understand) are just behind the corner, you'll see!

Jade Raymond.
The breaker of promises.
At this point I dont think shes ever gonna actually produce a game that makes it to market.
Even with Sony backing Haven Studios I wouldnt be shocked if down the line of production she leaves and goes to another studio where she can NOT release a product there too.

The last game she actually produced was Assassins Creed in 2007.

Imagine trying to make a point in a forum by lying about data that is at a three click distance.

Also, when was the last time Sony took the L on a studio purchase?
Sounds like someone is scared that Haven is on to something.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This post makes a lot of sense but implying the series X could be any where close to the ps3, with its terrible split memory pool of 256mb memory and the absolute ball ache of a cell processor, isn't a great look.

These are x86 processors, the only issue is that devs really aren't working to learn direct x12 properly...which a lot of professionals are struggling to understand, why?

PC versions and xbox versions are suffering due to this in a market where PC is getting bigger than it ever has been.

I do agree that Sony have done an amazing job by basically using the same API as the ps4 so devs have years of experience with the platform and its paying off.

No idea what's going in with the industry to give PC and Xbox the short end of the stick. Doesn't make sense.

That was never implied. As I said, `Didn't anyone learn from the PS3`. But connections can be made. Albeit different ones. XS does have a more complex memory design, it does lack specific dedicated hardware that stuff easier on the PS5, and its based on an API and language that albeit shared with the PC, has more overhead and as such slower.

I am simply pointing out the issue. Which is that building on the PS5 is easier than on the Xbox. Not because the PS5 is an all-around more powerful hardware, but because its software and hardware is better designed to make development on the platform faster. And when time is a limited resource, that ends up being very very very important.

If devs spend 500 man-hours on either platform, at the end of those 500 hours, the PS5 version would be in better shape. This doesn't mean the PS5 is getting more love or more powerful, it just means that devs have to spend an additional 50-100 hours on the XS version to make it perform at least as well.

 

[acm2000]

It's okay, we're still only just well into the third year of the current console generation.
All those multiplatform games making use of that spectacular checklist of features (that Microsoft overhyped and people here barely understand) are just behind the corner, you'll see!






Imagine trying to make a point in a forum by lying about data that is at a three click distance.

Also, when was the last time Sony took the L on a studio purchase?
Sounds like someone is scared that Haven is on to something.

to be fair, "executive producer" is a fluff title usually

 

[TonyK]

That was never implied. As I said, `Didn't anyone learn from the PS3`. But connections can be made. Albeit different ones. XS does have a more complex memory design, it does lack specific dedicated hardware that stuff easier on the PS5, and its based on an API and language that albeit shared with the PC, has more overhead and as such slower.

I am simply pointing out the issue. Which is that building on the PS5 is easier than on the Xbox. Not because the PS5 is an all-around more powerful hardware, but because its software and hardware is better designed to make development on the platform faster. And when time is a limited resource, that ends up being very very very important.

If devs spend 500 man-hours on either platform, at the end of those 500 hours, the PS5 version would be in better shape. This doesn't mean the PS5 is getting more love or more powerful, it just means that devs have to spend an additional 50-100 hours on the XS version to make it perform at least as well.

So, why, for exampe Resident evil games (2 remake, 3 remake, 7 and 8) performs better in Xbox? Why does that engine perform better in Xbox architecture?

By the way, I tested other games that performs better in Xbox. The ones from Massive (The Quarry, etc) for example.

I mean, could it be something related to developers and not if one console is better than the other?

In my experience with both consoles, 90% of games are the same, and the other 10% splits between the both consoles, some performs better in PS5, others in seriesX.

 

[Lysandros]

So, why, for exampe Resident evil games (2 remake, 3 remake, 7 and 8) performs better in Xbox? Why does that engine perform better in Xbox architecture?

Even if the differencial in those Japanese developed games in favor of XSX is very slight and there are games like Monster Hunter Rise and DMC5 (120FPS mode) running better on PS5 using this same engine, this is still a pretty good and often overlooked point. Showing that results can slightly favor one architecture or the other per title even within the same engine envelope.

 

[Romulus]

So, why, for exampe Resident evil games (2 remake, 3 remake, 7 and 8) performs better in Xbox? Why does that engine perform better in Xbox architecture?

By the way, I tested other games that performs better in Xbox. The ones from Massive (The Quarry, etc) for example.

I mean, could it be something related to developers and not if one console is better than the other?

In my experience with both consoles, 90% of games are the same, and the other 10% splits between the both consoles, some performs better in PS5, others in seriesX.

Devil May Cry also in certain scenarios if I remember correctly. But overall, it seems like the ps5 has a clear edge to me. It also seems like the Xbox wins are less drastic too. Not that either are night and day.

 

[01011001]

So, why, for exampe Resident evil games (2 remake, 3 remake, 7 and 8) performs better in Xbox? Why does that engine perform better in Xbox architecture?

the engine works well with DX12 is my guess, so not much tinkering required to utilise the SX

 

[M1chl]

I was in the pretty fucked up mood, when I wrote that DX12 could be the culprit, I just want to express, that I took it from the situation, that RTX was completely cut from the game "from now", even thought there has been technical demo, something also suggest that the debug portion of the code wasn't cut from Xbox (maybe even PS, someone with keyboard can. try it)



These sort of things are discouraged to proliferate into build tools, because you can be printing out there some NDA stuff.

I just wanted to add some context to my previous post.

 

[01011001]

I was in the pretty fucked up mood, when I wrote that DX12 could be the culprit, I just want to express, that I took it from the situation, that RTX was completely cut from the game "from now", even thought there has been technical demo, something also suggest that the debug portion of the code wasn't cut from Xbox (maybe even PS, someone with keyboard can. try it)



These sort of things are discouraged to proliferate into build tools, because you can be printing out there some NDA stuff.

I just wanted to add some context to my previous post.

in-game overlays like these aren't always accurate.
in-game framerate counters for example are basically always wrong.
so I wouldn't take this as gosp

 

[M1chl]

in-game overlays like these aren't always accurate.
in-game framerate counters for example are basically always wrong.
so I wouldn't take this as gosp

I am not even talking about values, I am talking about that basically these sort of things are discouraged to have in production version, so maybe something isn't fully final (but sadly deadlines have the date) or something could there be left by accident, nonetheless profile tools in any shape or form makes code runs slower. Just my experience with development.

 

[01011001]

I am not even talking about values, I am talking about that basically these sort of things are discouraged to have in production version, so maybe something isn't fully final (but sadly deadlines have the date) or something could there be left by accident, nonetheless profile tools in any shape or form makes code runs slower. Just my experience with development.

ah, yeah kinda weird but I expect this these days from devs using UE4.
modern engines imo condition developers to ignore proper practices because they just assume the engine is doing the heavy lifting for them.
the rate of blueprint usage in UE4/5 shows this really well. Blueprints are super inefficient but easy to use, so they get used more and more.

we are currently in a phase of game development where engines become super easy to use, but what makes them super easy to use makes them run like ass on current hardware.
eventually this will be overcome by brute force when the hardware becomes so good that you'll be hard pressed to make it run slow.

but I think we are still at least a decade away from that reality

 

[Physiognomonics]

ah, yeah kinda weird but I expect this these days from devs using UE4.
modern engines imo condition developers to ignore proper practices because they just assume the engine is doing the heavy lifting for them.
the rate of blueprint usage in UE4/5 shows this really well. Blueprints are super inefficient but easy to use, so they get used more and more.

we are currently in a phase of game development where engines become super easy to use, but what makes them super easy to use makes them run like ass on current hardware.
eventually this will be overcome by brute force when the hardware becomes so good that you'll be hard pressed to make it run slow.

but I think we are still at least a decade away from that reality

Sure big engines run worse but still Epic have greatly improved UE efficiency since UE4 and since they started to get that Fortnite money. I remember when it launched on PS4 it was running at 30fps by default.

They quickly updated it and improved things significantly in order to make it run at stable 60fps on Jaguar CPU (while greatly adding graphical features in it).

Now in UE 5.1 we get RT lighting and reflections at stable 60fps on weak Zen 2 powered consoles. So I don't think the "run like ass" can be applied anymore in the case of UE 5.1.

 

[01011001]

Sure big engines run worse but still Epic have greatly improved UE efficiency since UE4 and since they started to get that Fortnite money. I remember when it launched on PS4 it was running at 30fps by default.

They quickly updated it and improved things significantly in order to make it run at stable 60fps on Jaguar CPU (while greatly adding graphical features in it).

Now in UE 5.1 we get RT lighting and reflections at stable 60fps on weak Zen 2 powered consoles. So I don't think the "run like ass" can be applied anymore in the case of UE 5.1.

it's not the engine but how it's used by most developers.
UE4/5 has many ways to make the development process easier. you can make whole games without writing a single line of code in UE.

the issue is that many devs nowadays just use conveniences like these excessively without thought.

I'm not saying the engine is what's the issue, I'm saying the developers relying too much on the engine's ability to just automate things is the issue.
and many devs are so used to this easy go way to just throw games together that it becomes an issue.

even Epic falls into this trap. they just use UE's easy way to thow different materials at everything without actually thinking about the consequences of it.
Fortnite has among the worst shader stutters of any game on the market, and it gets worse as time goes on.
they never use the same gold material twice, their art team just throws in 20 different materials that are supposed to look like gold on different skins and do not give a shit that this means even more shaders to compile and even more stutters on PC.

you can, no joke, have 4 to 5 different shaders that all are supposed to represent the same material on a single character. maybe your character skin has gold plates on him, and your backbling is a golden skull, then your glider has golden handles or something, and youe gun has a golden barrel... and you'll notice they're all slightly different looking pieces of gold, none of them reuses the same material even tho that would not only mean better matching combinations but also less shader compilation and therefore less stutters.

Epic's art team uses the ease at which you can just make your own materials in the engine to just do whatever the fuck they want, they don't even think twice about what this means for performance.

I remember playing Fortnite on PC during Season 6 or so, and it ran perfectly fine, playing it now and I have to get through 4 ot 5 full matches until the shader stutters stop, or more realistically get less of an issue... because all it takes for a stutter to occur is seeing a player with a skin that has yet another material you haven't encountered since the last patch to make your game hitch for a few frames.

when this started to get worse I at first thought my GPU is dying on me or my RAM has issues, this was before shader stutters became a mainstream issue

 

[DenchDeckard]

the engine works well with DX12 is my guess, so not much tinkering required to utilise the SX

Maybe the talented devs at Capcom spent the time to learn direct x 12 and a solid pc dev environment with their open comments and push to support pc more. This then benefits xbox series x.

I expect resident evil 4 remake will continue to be better on series x and same for street fighter 6

 

[01011001]

Maybe the talented devs at Capcom spent the time to learn direct x 12 and a solid pc dev environment with their open comments and push to support pc more. This then benefits xbox series x.

I expect resident evil 4 remake will continue to be better on series x and same for street fighter 6

all it takes really is the people over there who are responsible for the Xbox version to do their job well.
because it's usually not the same people working on both versions.

 

[Black_Stride]

Imagine trying to make a point in a forum by lying about data that is at a three click distance.

Also, when was the last time Sony took the L on a studio purchase?
Sounds like someone is scared that Haven is on to something.

Imagine not reading?
She wasnt producer on AC2 or WatchDogs.
She had nothing to do with FarCry 4.
And Battlefront has her in the credits because she signed a piece of paper.