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[Hero]

I was about to post this in the MMAC thread but felt that this was an important enough issure to have its own. If any moderators feel it should be combined then feel free to.

This is taken from http://megaman.retrofaction.com

Edit: Text in bold is Atomic Planet's response.

Upon communicating with one of Atomic Planet's reps, this reply was recieved, it explains many issues about the GameCube version of the game MegaMan Anniversary Collection, it's worth a check (I know it's long):

Thank you for your email. Hopefully all of your questions will be answered below:

Also, it is my understanding that the remixed music found in Mega Man 1-3 was taken from the Mega Drive version, The Wily Wars....and that was a cartridge! The majority of the collection are old 8-bit NES titles ranging from 256KB to 4MB. Even if Mega Man 8 took up the entire PSOne disc of 650MB which I'm fairly positive it didn't, you should still have plenty of room.

Unfortunately the size of the original ROMs does not have any bearing on MMAC as non of the games emulated. All titles have been re-written for PS2 / GCN and this means that data size for graphics and sound has increased considerably when compared to the original game data. With 10 games on the package our emphasis was always on ensuring that the original games were as true to the originals as they could be on the target platforms. This means that frame rate, image quality and sound quality had to be of the highest standard. I’ve listed the size of the PSX re-releases of Rockman 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 8 below to give you an insight into just how big these games were to begin with in the hope that you can understand where all the space went! Please bear in mind that the machines that originally ran these games had very different architecture to the PS2 and GCN and so when image and sound data is converted it invariably has to increase in size.

The ps2 version of MMAC runs to 3.52gb and the GCN has been compressed down to fit into 1.35gb.

As you can see the original PSX games alone (excluding all bonus content, MM7 and the fighting games that are also included with MMAC) come to over 3gb – That’s twice the size of a GCN disk! This means we are already compressing the games down to under 50% of their original size before we even begin to add the new features..

Back to the music, why wasn't this mentioned sooner? Even on the promo video in retail stores it mentions the remixed music. As a huge Mega Man fan who was really looking forward to all that was promised in this title, you can understand my frustration. I do not own a PS2 sadly. And I really shouldn't have to because the GameCube media should be large enough.

Again, we are not emulating the original NES games. My points above hopefully answer this.

After all Factor 5 is able to fit an enormous amount of high quality video footage in games like Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike along with a ton of orchestrated music onto one disc in addition to the main game program. And it sounds superb.

It is my understanding that vast majority of the music in the rogue squadron games is actually chip music (sequenced tunes and not red book audio or any other type of compressed audio stream). If this is correct then this would explain why they can fit so much on a disc - You would have to check this with Factor 5 though! Unfortunately the remixed tunes in MMAC only exist as audio streams and so the option to play them back from much smaller sequenced data was not available to us during development.

My IT friends are laughing at this whole situation, they aren't buying the excuse either. It really sounds like you guys were just focusing on the PS2 version and when it came to crunch time to make the deadline, you bothered to not focus as much energy into the Cube version.

This is actually not true at all. Both versions were developed side by side and in fact the GameCube version was the first to be completed.

PS1 –Rockman
Original Image size: 273mb
PS1 – Rockman 2
Original Image Size: 384mb
PS1 – Rockman 3
Original Image Size: 466mb
PS1 – Rockman 4
Original Image Size: 591mb
PS1 – Rockman 5
Original Image Size: 584mb
PS1 – Rockman 6
Original Image Size: 488mb
PS1 – Megaman 8
Original Image Size: 318mb
Total for MM1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8 = 3.03gb

Regards
Barry Smith
QA Manager
Atomic Planet Entertainment Ltd


That, and knowing the problem with the music was the fact that they were streamed instead of sequenced, not even re-sequencing the music would've been enough, because of the fact that they are not emulating the original NES games.

My take? Complete bullshit. Looking at games like Wind Waker or Metroid Prime and all that they gave on one tiny disk and then this MMAC bullshit is just inexcusable.

 

[Tritroid]

The ps2 version of MMAC runs to 3.52gb and the GCN has been compressed down to fit into 1.35gb.

What the hell? That can't be right...can it?

 

[Mashing]

Bah, I think that's some nice damage control there. Why do developer think multiple disc games are a bad thing? Licensing one more disc for a game shouldnt' be that big of a deal.

 

[drohne]

i think this is as good a place as any to mention how much i'm enjoying the remixed soundtracks. great, great compilation.

but look on the bright side: those little gamecube discs are awful cute!

 

[Hero]

I just don't understand. They said that the reason for disc space being maxed was because they used the PS1 Mega Man releases and ported them. If that was the case then why didn't they just emulate the games? An NES emulator (which can't be that big or difficult, considering they're on Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime, Legend of Zelda Collection, etc.), a SNES emulator, and a PS1/Saturn emulator for the games.

I hardly see any sense in this at all. I find it hard to believe that 8 games (6 of which were running on 20 year old hardware) couldn't be compiled in well under 1.5 gigabytes of space. I'm not that knowledgable on game coding and space issues, but isn't emulating a whole lot easier than porting each and every game?

Also, they didn't explain the fucked up controls on the GCN version, or at least answer why there wasn't enough space to include a control option somewhere.

 

[cvxfreak]

More than one disc seems easy, but for a budget compilation, it might not be worth it...

 

[jett]

Heh, is the remixed music in MM1-MM3 really from Wily Wars? Bleh.

 

[Spike]

Bullshit, plain and simple.

Nintendo does have GCN cases that hold 2 Discs. If you're going to do something, do it right!

 

[dark10x]

First off all, where the hell did they get the idea that the remixed music was from the Megadrive versions of MM1-3??!?! MM1-3 on MD had AWFUL music (absolutely ruined it) and really failed to capture the feel of the original tunes. The mixes included here are much higher quality...

Secondly, he is actually right about the size of the PSX games. That IS how large each disc was (well, I haven't actually seen ALL of them...).

I also got a kick out of the Factor 5 comment. Fully orchestrated?!? There have been a number of PS2 titles with chip music that really DID sound orchestrated (Onimusha 1, for example)...but if there was any recent games that very obviously used chip music, it was the two RS games from Factor 5.

I just don't understand. They said that the reason for disc space being maxed was because they used the PS1 Mega Man releases and ported them. If that was the case then why didn't they just emulate the games? An NES emulator (which can't be that big or difficult, considering they're on Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime, Legend of Zelda Collection, etc.), a SNES emulator, and a PS1/Saturn emulator for the games.

I'm not so sure that emulation would have worked when you consider the changes made to the game. Different UI, saving system, the music system, and the removal of graphical glitches found in the originals.

 

[Tritroid]

Someone should email these replies back to them in response. Let them know the gig is up!

 

[Hero]

Apparently most of the remixed music on the PS2 Navi mode is taken from the Power Battle/Fights(whatever), which is ALREADY on the GCN disc, which boggles the mind even more.

Somebody SERIOUSLY needs to ask these guys at Atomic Planet what their reasoning is for having a control option on PS2 but not on GCN. Sony moneyhats? Sheer ignorance/stupidity? Lack of disc space? I can't think of one excuse that is practical or reasonable.

 

[dark10x]

Apparently most of the remixed music on the PS2 Navi mode is taken from the Power Battle/Fights(whatever), which is ALREADY on the GCN disc, which boggles the mind even more.

Somebody SERIOUSLY needs to ask these guys at Atomic Planet what their reasoning is for having a control option on PS2 but not on GCN. Sony moneyhats? Sheer ignorance/stupidity? Lack of disc space? I can't think of one excuse that is practical or reasonable.

It is absolutely NOT taken from Power Battle/Fights...

I've heard that rumor as well, but it is absolutely false. The music tracks here are the arrange tracks used on PSX and released as a music CD in Japan.

This remixed music does not come from some cart based music. That includes the Genesis games...

I believe that AP is being honest with us. It would have been possible, obviously, to fit everything on the GC disc...but not with the way they chose to do the pack. I'd imagine that they were too far along to totally change their approach. They stated here (and it is obvious when playing) that they were using the PSX games as a basis and that is the reason why there wasn't enough disc space available. It seems that one of the ways they fit the PSX games on the GC was to remove the updated audio...

 

[Alcibiades]

Considering that they are charging $30 and plenty of games on GCN are 2 discs (including CAPCOM's REmake and RE:0, which retail for $20), I don't see how spening the extra $1 or $2 for another disc would have hurt Capcom all that much... I don't think the royalty rates are affected, probably just the cost of the disc...

AND, that doesn't explain why they F*CKED UP the controls...

Capcom should seriously do a recall and fix up at least the controls...

 

[ninge]

the response seems honest to me.

QUOTE "I just don't understand. They said that the reason for disc space being maxed was because they used the PS1 Mega Man releases and ported them. If that was the case then why didn't they just emulate the games? An NES emulator (which can't be that big or difficult, considering they're on Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime, Legend of Zelda Collection, etc.), a SNES emulator, and a PS1/Saturn emulator for the games. "

It's next to impossible to add new content to emulated games - i guess they thought that all the added features dark10x mentions were very important (beucase they improve the gameplay) and thus straight emulation wasnt an option.

QUOTE "Apparently most of the remixed music on the PS2 Navi mode is taken from the Power Battle/Fights(whatever), which is ALREADY on the GCN disc, which boggles the mind even more."

this is not true - as dark10x has already pointed out

QUOTE "Somebody SERIOUSLY needs to ask these guys at Atomic Planet what their reasoning is for having a control option on PS2 but not on GCN. Sony moneyhats? Sheer ignorance/stupidity? Lack of disc space? I can't think of one excuse that is practical or reasonable."

There is no control option on the PS2 version either. PS2 version button layout is different to the GC version but can not be altered - i would suggest asking yourself where you got your bulshit information from

QUOTE "Bah, I think that's some nice damage control there. Why do developer think multiple disc games are a bad thing? Licensing one more disc for a game shouldnt' be that big of a deal.

I would imagine that with MMAC being a budget release 2 discs would have been too expensive?

 

[clipunderground]

I don't buy one word of that shit.

 

[ninge]

why not?

 

[dark10x]

I don't buy one word of that shit.

Yes, why not?

His explanation is quite reasonable and makes perfect sense...

 

[Alcibiades]

I would imagine that with MMAC being a budget release 2 discs would have been too expensive?

I would imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal...

Right now Capcom is selling 2 Resident Evil games at $20 with 2 discs, so I doubt the cost of the disc is an issue... besides, discs are cheap this isn't cartridges...

sure they might lose $1 or $2 for every sale (if that), but that doesn't explain the GCN control mess up...

it looks like they dodged some issues (or weren't asked or avoided questions) like the 2 I just mentioned...

why not?

because there is a 2-disc option and they haven't explained the control issue...

 

[dark10x]

I would imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal...

Right now Capcom is selling 2 Resident Evil games at $20 with 2 discs, so I doubt the cost of the disc is an issue... besides, discs are cheap this isn't cartridges...

sure they might lose $1 or $2 for every sale (if that), but that doesn't explain the GCN control mess up...

it looks like they dodged some issues (or weren't asked or avoided questions) like the 2 I just mentioned...

That is a TERRIBLE example...

Those Resident Evil games were expected to be BIG sellers. For Capcom, they were very important releases and they sure as hell didn't retail for $20 from the beginning.

However, they could not remain at full price forever -AND- they certainly would not simply dis-continue them, now would they? MMAC was never in the same league...

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I would imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal...

Right now Capcom is selling 2 Resident Evil games at $20 with 2 discs, so I doubt the cost of the disc is an issue... besides, discs are cheap this isn't cartridges...

Yeah, but those games were dropped to $20 after a long period of selling at full price. As with any game, there are going to be budget limits set by the publisher...I'd imagine it's common practice to set a media limit to the project, as well.

 

[clipunderground]

Yes, why not?

His explanation is quite reasonable and makes perfect sense...

because if they really wanted to put the music on there, they could of. I just don't buy the whole space issue argument. Call me crazy...

 

[ourumov]

Sounds credible to me...

 

[Alcibiades]

That is a TERRIBLE example...

Those Resident Evil games were expected to be BIG sellers. For Capcom, they were very important releases and they sure as hell didn't retail for $20 from the beginning.

However, they could not remain at full price forever -AND- they certainly would not simply dis-continue them, now would they? MMAC was never in the same league...

judging by the price sets (w/ no reductions) for their RE2-CV titles, I imagine keeping a certain huge price for a long time isn't that big of an issue for Capcom...

Also, considering the marketing push Capcom is giving this, they probably are expecting pretty good sales (maybe Viewtiful Joe range)...

besides, the point is that they wouldn't be losing too much money for the extra disc...

If they are turning a profit on a $20 price sale of a game (I know it took months to get to this price, but they are still shipping them), then they can certainly do pretty well on the sale of a $30 2-disc game...

edit: you mention that Capcom couldn't keep the high price forever, but if the 2 discs were going to cut into money at $20, why not drop only to $30 PC price like Smash Brothers and Sonic Adventure 2: Battle? they can obviously afford quite well the 2 discs at $20...

 

[ge-man]

The music is an understanable thing. That really doesn't bother me in the end--you can the get track else if is's that important. I would like to know why they jacked the controls. Now that's inexcusable. A simple menu option could've been added--hell, they could mapped the jump button to the x button like they did for MM8 and there would be no complaints. Why they only did it for one game boggles my mind. I think that's were most complaints should be about--the sound stuff can't really be helped considering what they used (streamed rather than sequenced sound).

 

[ninge]

clipunderground - that's a pretty weak argumnet

I would imagine that budgets and time limits on these kind of things are set well in advance - I can't even begin to imagine how much work it would be to convert, add features to, test and fix 10 games all at the same time!

I think there are far too many people who have their head in the clouds about this. I'm sure given longer time and bigger budgets anything is possible but the real world doesnt work like that.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

id like to know how a half a meg game balloons up to over 250 megs?


WTF did they redo the entire game as FMV styles sega cd game?

PS1 –Rockman
Original Image size: 273mb
PS1 – Rockman 2
Original Image Size: 384mb
PS1 – Rockman 3
Original Image Size: 466mb
PS1 – Rockman 4
Original Image Size: 591mb
PS1 – Rockman 5
Original Image Size: 584mb
PS1 – Rockman 6
Original Image Size: 488mb
PS1 – Megaman 8
Original Image Size: 318mb

so uh hows come the ps1 megaman 8 in all of its 32 bit art, FMV, and msuic glory is only 30 megs more than the....piece of shit looking mega man 1 game?

 

[clipunderground]

I would like to know why they jacked the controls. Now that's inexcusable. A simple menu option could've been added--hell, they could mapped the jump button to the x button like they did for MM8 and there would be no complaints. Why they only did it for one game boggles my mind. I think that's were most complaints should be about

See, that just proves my point. Sounds like a rush job to me. Which leads me to believe the real reason why things like the soundtrack and button configuration are fuxored has more to do with the lack of putting time and effort into the game then anything else.


edit- I agree with Zombie. MegaMan 1 is ridiculously small.. there is no reason the emulated version is THAT damn big.. I can emulate megaman on my old 233mhz computer perfectly if I wanted to. It's still the sme size too!

 

[Alcibiades]

how are

-the simple adding of a control menu being easy (according to people here)

and

-the decision to go with 2 discs when deemed necessary (like many developers consider LATE in lifetime of development

"weak arguements"?

I don't think these two options for gamers are "head in the clouds" considerations (probably minor fixes if you ask me)...

asking for Online play on GCN for Pandora Tomorrow, that may be "head in the clouds", but asking for a regular control scheme/option + going with 2 discs when space demands seems pretty minor and reasonable...

 

[dark10x]

clipunderground - that's a pretty weak argumnet

I would imagine that budgets and time limits on these kind of things are set well in advance - I can't even begin to imagine how much work it would be to convert, add features to, test and fix 10 games all at the same time!

I think there are far too many people who have their head in the clouds about this. I'm sure given longer time and bigger budgets anything is possible but the real world doesnt work like that.

Yes, I agree. The people complaining about this clearly have no idea what it would entail to make the changes they demand (though the control complaint IS valid).

The route they decided to take was obviously to use the PSX games as a base. I'd imagine that doing what you ask (adding music) would have required a completely different strategy. With various budget and time constraints in place (and two platforms to work with), I don't think they could have re-designed the title JUST to add music.

there is no reason the emulated version is THAT damn big..

IT IS NOT EMULATED. They ported the PLAYSTATION versions of these games in order to obtain all extra features. If these WERE emulated, you wouldn't recieve ANY additional features...let alone adding music.

Why are they so large? Ask the developers that originally made those versions...

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

did the original psx have a soundchip if not they prolly had to redbook the original tunes in all their shitty glory bloating the game WAY overboard.

 

[Alcibiades]

I'd imagine that doing what you ask (adding music) would have required a completely different strategy. With various budget and time constraints in place (and two platforms to work with), I don't think they could have re-designed the title JUST to add music.

didn't they do it for the PS2 version though, why not GCN version, where the game could potentionally be more popular...

I think people are complaining that the GCN version isn't the same as the PS2 version, and that more effort was put into the PS2 version...

why not put the same effort for each, and if it was a space issue, why not go with 2 discs, even if it would have cost a little delay (not that January to June wasn't a long enough delay already)....

 

[ninge]

yep - all the audio on the PSX versions is red book CD audio - that's why they are so big, and that's probably why mm8 is only a little bit bigger. If you look at the file lists for the psx disks the data for the music accounds for almost 90% of it's size!

 

[jett]

The NES games are big because(as ZombieSupaStar noted) they had to redbook every piece of music. That's the only way they were going to sound exactly like the original versions.

And motherfuckrs, it is not shitty music.

 

[ge-man]

didn't they do it for the PS2 version though, why not GCN version, where the game could potentionally be more popular...

I think people are complaining that the GCN version isn't the same as the PS2 version, and that more effort was put into the PS2 version...

why not put the same effort for each, and if it was a space issue, why not go with 2 discs, even if it would have cost a little delay (not that January to June wasn't a long enough delay already)....

Probably because this was a low key release? I'm sure Capcom realized that there are many Mega Man fans who are Nintendo gamers, but this is likely the best that could've been done. At the most, we could blame the original designers for making the arranged tunes only redbook, but that's unfair due to hindsight.

Again, the sound thing is a moot point. I think the controls are different matter and I would definately like to see an explanation for them.

 

[clipunderground]

IT IS NOT EMULATED. They ported the PLAYSTATION versions of these games in order to obtain all extra features. If these WERE emulated, you wouldn't recieve ANY additional features...let alone adding music.

Why are they so large? Ask the developers that originally made those versions...

Fine, eitherway though, it's a lame cop out. There is no reason for a half a meg game to take up so much damn space. I don't know what the hell they did on the PSX version but that was very unnecessary.

 

[Alcibiades]

for Capcom this is NOT a low-key release, it's their most importan release for 1st 1/2 of 2004 and will probably be their biggest game for their 1st half of year and are even giving it a good marketing push according to some report recently...

being a "low-key release" is not a suitable excuse for not completing a project...

 

[SolidSnakex]

for Capcom this is NOT a low-key release, it's their most importan release for 1st 1/2 of 2004 and will probably be their biggest game for their 1st half of year and are even giving it a good marketing push according to some report recently...

being a "low-key release" is not a suitable excuse for not completing a project...

That'd be Onimusha 3. This game will almost certainly get no TV ads and probably not too many magazine ads. Capcom gives very few games alot of hype, and this isn't going to be one.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

i think this is as good a place as any to mention how much i'm enjoying the remixed soundtracks. great, great compilation.

but look on the bright side: those little gamecube discs are awful cute!

lol. Actually, at this point it's the controls they went with I don't get at all. The music issue is a cherry on a poo hill.

 

[Fallopian Tube]

That'd be Onimusha 3. This game will almost certainly get no TV ads and probably not too many magazine ads. Capcom gives very few games alot of hype, and this isn't going to be one.

It's Mega Man blitz time. Capcom today announced that it is on the verge of launching a Mega Man television campaign to support the Mega Man Anniversary Collection for PlayStation 2 and GameCube, and the two versions of Mega Man Battle Network 4 for the Game Boy Advance.


The television spots will launch June 21 and run for three weeks. The commercials are supported by an extensive campaign which includes print and online ads, radio commercials, licensed merchandise, and retail promotions. Mega.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/524/524663p1.html

 

[Alcibiades]

46,000 + 70,000 = sales for Onimusha...

somehow, I see the Megaman Collection selling more, especially since it's on 2 systems... sure one is $50 and one is $30, but it's still a more important release because it's part of their whole Megaman blitz right now plus part of their overall Megaman franchise they are so dependent on...

 

[StrikerObi]

Ok, I missed all thoes other MMAC threads. Can somebody explain to me real quick.

1) The GameCube version has NO remixed music at all?
2) What's so wrong with the Cube version's controls?

I'm getting the Cube version as a freebie but I think I'll swap it at Best Buy or something for the PS2 one if all this stuff is true.

 

[StrikerObi]

46,000 + 70,000 = sales for Onimusha...

somehow, I see the Megaman Collection selling more, especially since it's on 2 systems... sure one is $50 and one is $30, but it's still a more important release because it's part of their whole Megaman blitz right now plus part of their overall Megaman franchise they are so dependent on...

What? Both versions are $30 dude. Just check Bestbuy.com or ebgames.com

 

[explodet]

1) The GameCube version has NO remixed music at all?

Yes, but only a few tracks in a sound test. Not actually in-game.

2) What's so wrong with the Cube version's controls?

They switched the A and B buttons. Which nobody likes.

 

[Alcibiades]

What? Both versions are $30 dude. Just check Bestbuy.com or ebgames.com

I mean Onimusha 3 vs. Megaman Collection....

 

[StrikerObi]

Yes, but only a few tracks in a sound test. Not actually in-game.

So does it have all the remixed songs (only in soundtest) or just some of them?

Also, WTF they switched the buttons and don't even let you change them? That's bullshit. I'll be swapping out for the PS2 version. Screw developer interviews (I'll bet they're not even recorded and you have to read them), I'd rather have a better game.

I mean Onimusha 3 vs. Megaman Collection....

Oh, ok then.

 

[Alcibiades]

The interviews are Videos... (20 min. I believe)...

I plan to buy a controller or use Action Replay (if possible) to do the A/B switch on GCN (hopefully using Hori pad if AR button swap is possible...)

 

[ge-man]

So does it have all the remixed songs (only in soundtest) or just some of them?

Also, WTF they switched the buttons and don't even let you change them? That's bullshit. I'll be swapping out for the PS2 version. Screw developer interviews (I'll bet they're not even recorded and you have to read them), I'd rather have a better game.

First question--only some. The post at the top explains why they was no space left for all remixed tracks

As for the interviews, they potentially did worse than that--G4 produced them. I haven't seen them, but the name does not inspire confidence.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Heh, is the remixed music in MM1-MM3 really from Wily Wars? Bleh.

No, it's not, and that's too bad, because the Wily Wars music ROCKED. BLEH TO YOU, JETT, BLEH TO YOU, I SAY.

 

[dark10x]

didn't they do it for the PS2 version though, why not GCN version, where the game could potentionally be more popular...

I think people are complaining that the GCN version isn't the same as the PS2 version, and that more effort was put into the PS2 version...

why not put the same effort for each, and if it was a space issue, why not go with 2 discs, even if it would have cost a little delay (not that January to June wasn't a long enough delay already)....

No, they did not do that for the PS2 version...

They did not re-design it for PS2 in order to get the music. The music was included simply because they happened to have the space on the DVD for it. Both versions were being built from the same base...and it just so happens that the GC disc could not hold all of the data. The PS2 version would also have lacked those extras if the disc size was smaller. It has nothing to do with "system bias" here...they simply had more space available on PS2 and they went ahead and used it!

 

[Deleted member 284]

They need to respond regarding the button switching. That is the BIGGEST fault of the GCN version.