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[hellclerk]

Geez, what a disappointment. It was debated that the Wii already had a big userbase for the RES franchise, and that it was actually riskier to launch it on HD consoles because there wasn't a Res user base there, implying that RES5 would actually sell better on the Wii.

Obviously, this is all because guess what...there's no RES4 at 29.99 (probably would have to be at 15$, since it's last gen graphics, which isn't the same for the Wii) for the HD consoles to compare this "userbase" thing.

yes, but this argument is semantical in this regard. i don't think there's a single person here who doesn't believe that RE5 will not sell on HD consoles. however, in risk assessment directly related to the Resident Evil brand, there is no precedent for sales. this means that while there are plenty of games within similar genres, that have sold gangbusters, there's no reason to believe that this one will too. of course, genre sales are a large factor in determining risk, but franchise sales are far more telling, and right now, the Wii has the most telling sales out of any of the systems. while certainly there is very good reason to believe that RE5 will light up the March NPDs, the data around the Wii in relation to a Resident Evil game is more certain than anything else.

 

[[Nintex]]

Will Capcom care if their userbase has had any experience with Resident Evil games before when they release Resident Evil 5: iPhone Edition?

 

[Kilrogg]

note: I removed a bunch of text from your post, but I'm not discounting it. I thought most of it was thoughtful and well-reasoned.

The problem, as I see it, is that rather than look for a concept that can be popular and interesting, game publishers continue to latch on to concepts and ideas that were already popular and interesting. They continue to play the safe road over and over and over, further marginalizing themselves in the process. There is little room for new ideas in games, outside the indie world. I can't even count the number of games which had great concepts but managed to be focus-grouped (yes I just used "focus group" as a verb) right out of being any fun by trying to hit all the bullet points demanded by the game-buying public. Nowhere is this more evident than when looking at the post-WoW MMO landscape. Risk-aversion has completely destroyed a genre for me. A genre that I used to love.

To get this back on the subject of console sales, Nintendo struck a dramatic victory by simply aiming in the opposite direction. Rather than aiming for the niche, they took a shot at everyone else. It was a massive risk, and many here (including me) predicted at best another weak console cycle for Nintendo. Some predicted complete doom, but I thought they'd sell enough to their loyal fanbase to stay in the game for another round. Very few, however, predicted the massive hit that the Wii has become.

I almost wonder if this me-too industry will snap back completely in the opposite direction in the years to come, such that with multiple companies aiming at the Wii demographic, another comes along and thumps them by going after the neglected hardcore crowd. I suppose time will tell.

Thank you.

Certainly there's a desperate lack of innovation/risk, at least for retail games. As the industry grew following the cinema model, it's only the logical consequence, which is why I continue to believe, despite the slowness of the third parties and the doom & gloom spouted here and there, that Nintendo's direction will eventually do the industry much good. Digital platforms are also a shelter for those developers who believe in their concepts and don't want to cope with publishers, focus groups and the likes. Although I'm a bit worried about Microsoft's decision to remove games that don't perform well according to their standards. But yeah, you're dead on on the focus group thing.

Honestly, I'm baffled that so few developers see this huge change in the industry as an opportunity to come up with fresh ideas and new genres. Nintendo took the thing one step further by changing and broadening the definition and functions of video games, creating utility games such as Wii Fit, but even within the traditional definition of games, I'm sure there are still plenty of uncharted territories, and certainly, there are more and more games that can't fit the traditional genres, or for lack of anything better, are classified under the "unique" category. What is Trauma Center, for instance? Or even Zack & Wiki. I have a hard time calling that one a puzzle game or an adventure game, because it's actually a bit of both without being a hybrid. Just as GTA brought the free-roaming, sandbox genre to light, I'm waiting for the next hit that comes out of nowhere because it had nothing to do with focus groups and established genres.

What you describe in the last paragraph could theoretically happen, though I don't think it will anytime soon. It would take the overwhelming majority of the devs/publishers to do what Ubisoft is doing on the Wii, that is, making caricatures of software that never ever go beyond mediocrity, with no improvements over the years. I think there will be hardcore gaming in the future, but the definition won't be today's. And I'm not sure that the industry could be disrupted with games aimed at today's hardcore crowd. Again, the terms of the disruption would be different, it wouldn't just be someone thumping everyone by going back to cinematic games.

Ugh, I'd like to bring the argument around to sales now, because we're off-topic, but I don't know how, sorry .

 

[Jag22]

On the other hand, online isn't as important to Resident Evil 5 as it is to World at War, so RE5 Wii vs. PS3/360 comes down to better controls vs. better graphics whereas with W@W it becomes maybe better controls vs. better everything else.

Better controls is personal preference, not a fact.

And if the previews I've read are correct online play is an integral part of Resident Evil 5's gameplay. I don't think the developers built the game around co-op, just so you can order a NPC around for the entire game?

 

[WrikaWrek]

There isn't a precedent for a Resident Evil game on the PS3 but there is a precedent for a Call of Duty game on the Wii, Call of Duty 3 which sold slightly more than the PS3 version (at least in America), so your argument is still bullshit.

1st you weren't even able to keep up with the point and now you say it's bs simply because you miss the point.

The point is, there are more shooters (i believe) on the Ps3, so they sell better than the less amount of shooters on the Wii.

Is there a shooter on the Wii that sold as much as Resistance 1, and is there a shooter on the wii that has sold as much as COD4 on the wii?

And you say "But those games aren't on the Wii", which holds just as true to the "But resident Evil games aren't on the Ps3".

yes, but this argument is semantical in this regard. i don't think there's a single person here who doesn't believe that RE5 will not sell on HD consoles. however, in risk assessment directly related to the Resident Evil brand, there is no precedent for sales. this means that while there are plenty of games within similar genres, that have sold gangbusters, there's no reason to believe that this one will too. of course, genre sales are a large factor in determining risk, but franchise sales are far more telling, and right now, the Wii has the most telling sales out of any of the systems. while certainly there is very good reason to believe that RE5 will light up the March NPDs, the data around the Wii in relation to a Resident Evil game is more certain than anything else.

Of course that when we are talking about a game as big as RES5, and how Capcom is handling it as their biggest project, and how much hype it already has, the whole need for a precedent of a game in the series on the console gets thrown into the shit can, because 1st, these games don't need precedent, and 2nd, it's the first Res5 on a "next gen" system, and if precedent was needed, we would never see "next gen games".

And i believe that Capcom is aiming much higher than 1 to 2 million copies, which seems the most that a non nintendo hardcore game has reached on the wii

 

[gtj1092]

Because its their product and they make the profit if they sell copies of any version..?

And how can you blame a customer base.. They will just buy what they want.. Its the companies that have to hit the tastes.. or they will fail making money.. simple as that..

So what do want them to do make a separate Madden designed for the Wii audience( which it seems they are headed towards) or not release madden and come out with a blitz type madden for Wii?

I wish the hyperbole would go out the window of the rest of the industry falling off the face of the earth if they don't bow to the wishes of Wii fan. Let me know when the Wii has the market share disparity that Ps2 had and even then developers were able to still make exclusive games for xbox and gamecube.

yes, but this argument is semantical in this regard. i don't think there's a single person here who doesn't believe that RE5 will not sell on HD consoles. however, in risk assessment directly related to the Resident Evil brand, there is no precedent for sales. this means that while there are plenty of games within similar genres, that have sold gangbusters, there's no reason to believe that this one will too. of course, genre sales are a large factor in determining risk, but franchise sales are far more telling, and right now, the Wii has the most telling sales out of any of the systems. while certainly there is very good reason to believe that RE5 will light up the March NPDs, the data around the Wii in relation to a Resident Evil game is more certain than anything else.

There wasn't a DMC on Ps360 either and it outsold RE4 Wii in its first month so yeah I think capcom knows what they are doing with the RE franchise. Hell brand new IPs DR and Lost planet about as well as RE4 Wii so no RE5 won't have a problem selling.

 

[ksamedi]

Better controls is personal preference, not a fact.

And if the previews I've read are correct online play is an integral part of Resident Evil 5's gameplay. I don't think the developers built the game around co-op, just so you can order a NPC around for the entire game?

As important as you think it is, its something the Wii can pull of with ease :lol

 

[farnham]

Better controls is personal preference, not a fact.

And if the previews I've read are correct online play is an integral part of Resident Evil 5's gameplay. I don't think the developers built the game around co-op, just so you can order a NPC around for the entire game?

Maybe you can switch between Characters like in previous installments of the series... ??

For me co op looks much more like an reaction to Gears of War

 

[Jag22]

As important as you think it is, its something the Wii can pull of with ease :lol

Friends codes are cool?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Better controls is personal preference, not a fact.

And it just so happens that many professional (I use the term loosely) prefer the controls in the Wii version of Resident Evil 4.

1st you weren't even able to keep up with the point and now you say it's bs simply because you miss the point.

The point is, there are more shooters (i believe) on the Ps3, so they sell better than the less amount of shooters on the Wii.

Is there a shooter on the Wii that sold as much as Resistance 1, and is there a shooter on the wii that has sold as much as COD4 on the wii?

And you say "But those games aren't on the Wii", which holds just as true to the "But resident Evil games aren't on the Ps3".

You're silly.

 

[Jag22]

And it just so happens that many professional (I use the term loosely) prefer the controls in the Wii version of Resident Evil 5.

Resident Evil 5 is playable on the Wii? Where?

:Edit: COD 3 sold much better on the 360 than the Wii. So I guess the majority prefered the 360 controls.

 

[farnham]

Resident Evil 5 is playable on the Wii? Where?

Its called RE4 Wii Edition

 

[Aaron Strife]

Resident Evil 5 is playable on the Wii? Where?

Freudian slip. Don't be a dick.

 

[WrikaWrek]

You're silly.

Nice. I guess that's that then.

 

[basik]

battalion wars 2 also has online co-op and theres a ton of moving units, vehicles, rockets, bullets, and explosions flying around.

 

[ksamedi]

Friends codes are cool?

I'm sure that won't be a problem for someone who wants to play the game with someone. Besides, even friend codes can be streamlined like in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Jag22]

battalion wars 2 also has online co-op and theres a ton of moving units, vehicles, rockets, bullets, and explosions flying around.

I bought that a few months back. Not a soul is online.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Nice. I guess that's that then.

I'm just saying your argument doesn't match up with my own.

Like I've said there is no precedent on how a Resident Evil game would do on the PS3/360 because there is no Resident Evil game on the PS3/360. Meanwhile there have been two games in the series on Wii that both sold over a million.

I'm not arguing whether that even matters or not, I'm arguing whether or not it's true, which it is.

So you play devil's advocate by saying that Call of Duty 4 sold better on the PS3 than the non-existent Wii version, indicating that there is no precedent for a Wii version of Call of Duty when there IS and it did indeed outsold the PS3 version.

In other words you tried to be an ass and it backfired so then you swapped Call of Duty with Resistance. Well seeing as how the Wii is never going to get a Resistance game ever but it will get future installments of the Resident Evil series and Call of Duty series, then I can't see how that's relevant. It'd be like comparing the sales of Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii vs. the PS3 in relation to the next Ratchet & Clank. It has no bearing.

 

[basik]

I bought that a few months back. Not a soul is online.

theres people online...the problem is the lobby system kinda sucks because you pick the map you want to play on and if theres not many people playing that map it can be a long wait. EA got it right with MOHH2's lobby system, too bad mohh2 isnt that great, day of defeat on half life 1 pc is much better, but thats Ea's fault and not wii's.

 

[Weisheit]

So this is what Sony fans are reduced to? Arguing about the sales of shooters?
And American football games?

:lol How the mighty have fallen...

 

[yurinka]

Bingo.. they did it with Dead Rising why wouldnt they do it with RE5...??

And how will Dead Risings sales affect their decision... If they will do a wii port Capcom has already given the go sign to develop the port.. Only then they will be able to put the RE5 SKU out 6 month after the initial release on the next gen systems.. (As you said the port wont be easy and will take at least one year)

Plus its obvious that the Wii will be No.1 this gen.. There is no reason for them to hesitate porting games on the dominant platform. Look at PS2 and RE 4.

They don't expect DR Wii to be a huge success (their scheduled sales are 600k, I personally think they will be a bit higher).
With this title they want to see if a NT Framework to RE4 engine port sells well, and if the Wii fans are happy with the final results.

They spended tons of money in RE4 for GC and failed, so they ported it to PS2 and Wii. Now thanks mainly to this ports RE4 is a success.
But they spended a lot of money in RE4 engine, wich was only used in RE4. That's why I think a RE5 Wii port depends of the performance of RE5 in 360,PS3 and DR in Wii.

So it's good for them to release more games using this engine (in Wii) but why not RE5 instead of DR?
Because if they release at the same time (or almost) RE5 in 360, PS3 and Wii the Wii only fans would complain their version
has been too much toned down, and the PS3 and 360 fans would complain their versions are dumbing down to fit the game in a Wii.

Tech-wise, RE5 will be far powerful than DR (they tuned a lot the engine), so the differences between the HD versions and the Wii
versions would be smaller.

Well like some analyst I think PS3 unlike Wii will have legs and maybe won't reach Wii but at the end of the generation will be in a 2nd place and far closer than now. And seeing Wii games, specially its top 10 of sales, it's clear its sales aren't from mainly from hardcore/RE5 gamers.

That's a great example of a toned down next-gen port.


I don't think so, the combined PC+GC+PS2+Wii made RE4 a succes. Capcom almost had a dud with the GameCube exclusive. Not counting the "o noes PS2 port" crybabies who didn't pick it up. It would be like saying: FFXIII on PS3 exclusive would be more succesfull than FFXIII on the PS3/Xbox 360. Ports/remakes/multiplatform whatever, are always better for sales.


We'll see a Resident Evil 5 on Wii no doubt. It's Capcom, they would port their own mother if they had the chance.

I agree in all. I think to see a RE 5 Wii port soon has low options (I explained why), but I think they finally are going to release it in the future.

GameCube LTD: 21 million
PS2 LTD: 130 million

No shit.

Also, the PS2 port was announced before the GameCube version was even released.


You're saying that based on sales of other games.

A Halo fan is not necessarily a Resident Evil fan.

Yes, I was talking about sales of ther Capcom games, but too HW numbers. When they announced the PS2 port still wasn't these numbers, but were more or less proportional. It's like in DMC4, it was started as PS3 exclusive, but when they saw the sales numbers (HW and SW, specially when PS3 was released almost 2 years after 360) they decided to include it in their multiplatform strategy.

Yes, a Halo fan is not necessarily a Resident Evil fan, but is far closer to it than a Wii Fit/Wii Sports/Wii Play/Nintendogs/Brain Training fan.

 

[Aaron Strife]

A Halo fan is not necessarily a Resident Evil fan, but is far closer to it than a Wii Fit/Wii Sports/Wii Play/Nintendogs/Brain Training fan.

Please. For my sanity's sake don't even go there.

 

[WrikaWrek]

What's the most a hardcore non Nintendo game has sold on the Wii?

 

[Regulus Tera]

Friends codes are cool?

Friend codes are something only enforced by Nintendo in its own games. Resident Evil 5 is a Capcom product.

 

[Guled]

Smash Bros. Brawl has online co-op, what's your point?

if RE5 were to come to wii there is no way it will have online coop, plus SSBB had no coop for the story

 

[Aaron Strife]

What's the most a hardcore non Nintendo game has sold on the Wii?

Guitar Hero 3? Somewhere over 3 million.

I'm not going to pander to your arbitrary standards.

 

[Haunted]

 

[WrikaWrek]

Guitar Hero 3?

I'm not going to pander to your arbitrary standards, I'd say that's as core as Madden or Call of Duty are.

Right, guitar hero is hardcore sure. :lol

But whatever, how much has that one sold?

 

[schuelma]

Right, guitar hero is hardcore sure. :lol

But whatever, how much has that one sold?

Over 2 million in the U.S alone

 

[Regulus Tera]

Right, guitar hero is hardcore sure. :lol

But whatever, how much has that one sold?

But everyone said Guitar Hero was hardcore last generation. Why has it suddenly become casual? D=

Hell, I'd say GHIII is "harcorer" than GHII with its brick-wall difficulty curve.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm just saying your argument doesn't match up with my own.

Like I've said there is no precedent on how a Resident Evil game would do on the PS3/360 because there is no Resident Evil game on the PS3/360. Meanwhile there have been two games in the series on Wii that both sold over a million.

Resident Evil will do great, Xbox 360/PS3 crowd knows about Capcom and they'll market the game well. March isn't packed with releases like the holiday season, Capcom will have the biggest game this spring and they'll sell truckloads.

On the Wii a million copies sold seems to be the sweetspot for the more "hardcore" type games. I've seen figures of 1 million or slightly above for Red Steel, Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: UC. I'm sure that Resident Evil 5 on Wii is being developed and or ported and that it'll do great. The Xbox 360 is a software monster though and the upcoming holiday season should strenghten MS position in the market even more. Add in the PS3 version and Xbox 360+PS3 beat a possible Wii exclusive in sales.

Nintendo didn't get the Guitar Hero games untill this generation and they actually outsell the other versions, Guitar Hero was available on Playstation and Xbox systems before the Wii though. Your logic fails: "Guitar Hero will sell better on Xbox 360, because there's other Guitar Hero games that sold a million!" "Wii never had Guitar Hero so it doesn't sell!"

 

[Aaron Strife]

Right, guitar hero is hardcore sure. :lol

No one cared about this stupid hardcore vs casual shit until Nintendo became first again.

The Xbox 360 is a software monster though and the upcoming holiday season should strenghten MS position in the market even more. Add in the PS3 version and Xbox 360+PS3 beat a possible Wii exclusive in sales.

Do you really think it's fair to compare the sales of one SKU to the combined sales of two SKUs that reach a larger total audience?

 

[WrikaWrek]

But everyone said Guitar Hero was hardcore last generation. Why has it suddenly become casual? D=

Hell, I'd say GHIII is "harcorer" than GHII with its brick-wall difficulty curve.

Why has guitar hero suddenly become casual? :lol By the same reason guitar hero was hardcore. The reason you gave at least.

Over 2 million in the U.S alone

Pretty impressive.

Maybe these other hardcore games should be bundling guitars with them

(That's why i was asking for a hardcore game, and not something that has become as casual as guitar hero, it's like saying Singstar is hardcore...)

No one cared about this stupid hardcore vs casual shit until Nintendo became first again.

Until Nintendo said they were designing the Wii for the casual you mean.

And the reason i asked is because i was truly interested in knowing what was the best selling, non nintendo, hardcore game on the wii.

I think that counts as much for "precedent" as the other factors you've thrown.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Why has guitar hero suddenly become casual? :lol By the same reason guitar hero was hardcore. The reason you gave at least.

...that doesn't make any sense at all.


Seriously. It became casual by becoming more difficult? Are you kiddin' me?

We need a definition of hardcore ASAP. What are your criteria for hardcore?

 

[yurinka]

Friend codes are something only enforced by Nintendo in its own games. Resident Evil 5 is a Capcom product.

I didn't know games like Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 were Nintendo games.

 

[WrikaWrek]

...that doesn't make any sense at all.


Seriously. It became casual by becoming more difficult? Are you kiddin' me?

We need a definition of hardcore ASAP. What are your criteria for hardcore?

Dude, wtf man.

You said everybody said guitar hero was hardcore last generation, implying that since everybody says it is then it is.

Well, everybody says music games, guitar hero included, are casual this generation, so that must mean it is.

Love how people now don't know what an hardcore game is, all it took was for somebody to ask for numbers, and suddenly the line blurs :lol

You know what a hardcore game is, don't give me that shit.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Until Nintendo said they were designing the Wii for the casual you mean.

Oh Jesus Christ.

A casual gamer does not lead to casual games. You do realize that this is the only industry where people differentiate products between "hardcore" and "casual," right? Do hardcore movie-goers scoff at The Dark Knight for being "casual?"

You'd never be as hardcore as this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YePLMI9pu4

 

[HK-47]

if RE5 were to come to wii there is no way it will have online coop, plus SSBB had no coop for the story

Yes it did, what game were you playing?

 

[hellclerk]

Of course that when we are talking about a game as big as RES5, and how Capcom is handling it as their biggest project, and how much hype it already has, the whole need for a precedent of a game in the series on the console gets thrown into the shit can, because 1st, these games don't need precedent, and 2nd, it's the first Res5 on a "next gen" system, and if precedent was needed, we would never see "next gen games".

And i believe that Capcom is aiming much higher than 1 to 2 million copies, which seems the most that a non nintendo hardcore game has reached on the wii

to begin with, yes, you're right, the game will sell alot. no one is disputing that. i'm not trying to disqualify the title's existence on HD consoles, i'm only trying to qualify the game on the Wii, and right now, there is positive data on the Resident Evil franchise that is not on the HD consoles, so technically speaking, the game would do fine.

as to your second remark, if you can give me one high budget, high profile game that was lauded by critics on the Wii that bombed, then i will give you that statement. however, to my knowledge, such a game doesn't exist. why? apparently, there is no precedent. now, while you go and talk about how games that fit the profile i just described do great on the PS360, it seems that it is not the case with the Wii, but the other systems needed to start somewhere, and that somewhere hasn't really been taken advantage of on the Wii. the current market perception that "3rd party games don't sell on Wii" is the fault of the 3rd party, not the consumers. if they wanted to sell their games, they must first make something worth buying and second, not only make sure people know they can buy it, but also to give them a reason for doing so.

There wasn't a DMC on Ps360 either and it outsold RE4 Wii in its first month so yeah I think capcom knows what they are doing with the RE franchise. Hell brand new IPs DR and Lost planet about as well as RE4 Wii so no RE5 won't have a problem selling.

as i explained above, i have few doubts on the game's ability to sell on HD consoles, but i have even fewer doubts on the game's ability to sell on Wii, since the data on the franchise is so much more complete.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Dude, wtf man.

You said everybody said guitar hero was hardcore last generation, implying that since everybody says it is then it is.

Well, everybody says music games, guitar hero included, are casual this generation, so that must mean it is.

Man it seriously is weird to have music games (one of the genres with the most obsessive of fanbases) of all being called casual this generation. I remembered when a game like Ikaruga was among the few hardcore games. Does this mean Dance Dance Revolution and Ouendan are casual?


You still haven't answered my question. What makes a game "hardcore"?

 

[[Nintex]]

What makes a game "hardcore"?

The following title on the box: F-Zero GX

 

[WrikaWrek]

Oh Jesus Christ.

A casual gamer does not lead to casual games. You do realize that this is the only industry where people differentiate products between "hardcore" and "casual," right? Do hardcore movie-goers scoff at The Dark Knight for being "casual?"

You'd never be as hardcore as this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YePLMI9pu4

Well this industry is pretty different isn't it?

But we can use movie standards, R Rated vs PG 13 vs PG for example. It's not casual vs hardcore but it is a difference that exists and is debated, and there's other differences in movies that separates movie enthusiasts tastes vs movies that are made for everyone.

Man it seriously is weird to have music games (one of the genres with the most obsessive of fanbases) of all being called casual this generation. I remembered when a game like Ikaruga was among the few hardcore games. Does this mean Dance Dance Revolution and Ouendan are casual?


You still haven't answered my question. What makes a game "hardcore"?

A game that doesn't present itself in way that is supposed to appeal to any gender and any age.

to begin with, yes, you're right, the game will sell alot. no one is disputing that. i'm not trying to disqualify the title's existence on HD consoles, i'm only trying to qualify the game on the Wii, and right now, there is positive data on the Resident Evil franchise that is not on the HD consoles, so technically speaking, the game would do fine.

as to your second remark, if you can give me one high budget, high profile game that was lauded by critics on the Wii that bombed, then i will give you that statement. however, to my knowledge, such a game doesn't exist. why? apparently, there is no precedent. now, while you go and talk about how games that fit the profile i just described do great on the PS360, it seems that it is not the case with the Wii, but the other systems needed to start somewhere, and that somewhere hasn't really been taken advantage of on the Wii. the current market perception that "3rd party games don't sell on Wii" is the fault of the 3rd party, not the consumers. if they wanted to sell their games, they must first make something worth buying and second, not only make sure people know they can buy it, but also to give them a reason for doing so.

3rd party sells amazing on the wii though, at least that's according to charts. The problem is what sells, the kind of stuff that probably wouldn't sell on the HD consoles.

The way the Wii is marketed by Nintendo, the games Nintendo uses to serve as flagship titles, peripherals, the way the Wii itself is designed.

It all accounts for something, which affects the decisions that Publishers make, and which endeavors are taken.

It's not like things don't have a reason.

 

[hellclerk]

...that doesn't make any sense at all.


Seriously. It became casual by becoming more difficult? Are you kiddin' me?

We need a definition of hardcore ASAP. What are your criteria for hardcore?

criteria for hardcore is a such:
if it's on the Wii and sells alot, it's "casual"

if it's on the 360 and sells alot it's "HARDCORE"

 

[Kilrogg]

Until Nintendo said they were designing the Wii for the casual you mean.

Nintendo seldomly uses the words casual/hardcore, and when I say "seldomly" I mean "almost never". Even when they use it, it's likely in the mouth of a marketing person, rather than the execs and Iwata. He did use it once during this year's E3 though (or was it Reggie? Can't remember).

Watch Nintendo's E3 2006 conference, or the TGS Wiimote announcement. I'm not sure about that, but maybe even the 2007 E3 conference doesn't contain the word "casual" even once.

As a general rule, Nintendo rejects that rhetoric. A good chunk of the press people, and most publishers who try to imitate Nintendo but end up releasing mediocre titles –if not shovelware– are the ones who use it.

At best, you hear Nintendo talk about core gamers/customers and expanded audience.

 

[test_account]

So this is what Sony fans are reduced to? Arguing about the sales of shooters?
And American football games?

:lol How the mighty have fallen...

To be fair, this is a sales thread were sales can be discussed I dont think its only Sony fans that are arguing, they might have started the argument, but if people that arent Sony fans argue against them, i would say that its still arguing

 

[Aaron Strife]

But we can use movie standards, R Rated vs PG 13 vs PG for example. It's not casual vs hardcore but it is a difference that exists and is debated, and there's other differences in movies that separates movie enthusiasts tastes vs movies that are made for everyone.

Man fuck that.

Yes, movies and games both have genres and ratings. That's pretty much a staple of any medium.

However one genre is not strictly better than another and if you think otherwise than you're a pretentious cock.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Nintendo seldomly uses the words casual/hardcore, and when I say "seldomly" I mean "almost never". Even when they use it, it's likely in the mouth of a marketing person, rather than the execs and Iwata. He did use it once during this year's E3 though (or was it Reggie? Can't remember).

Watch Nintendo's E3 2006 conference, or the TGS Wiimote announcement. I'm not sure about that, but maybe even the 2007 E3 conference doesn't contain the word "casual" even once.

As a general rule, Nintendo rejects that rhetoric. A good chunk of the press people, and most publishers who try to imitate Nintendo but end up releasing mediocre titles –if not shovelware– are the ones who use it.

At best, you hear Nintendo talk about core gamers/customers and expanded audience.

So casual has now become some sort of slur, and expanded audience is what we call to the people that Iwata described when he was talking about how games have become "complex".

Iwata described what it seemed like a restart of gaming, basically in philosophy going back in time and pick up all the people that hadn't hopped on the gaming train that was started all those years ago and was then revolutionized by Sony with the next step in gaming, and take them to a point where we were when the gamers today were introduced to gaming.

It was that sort of philosophy. Which means that this expanded audience, should they become gamers, they will just, like us, lead to the kind of games that we are now already playing, these more complex games.

Which is funny, although it's clearly true that Nintendo had a great point, and it shows.

 

[Regulus Tera]

A game that doesn't present itself in way that is supposed to appeal to any gender and any age.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Oh man, the implications of this are hilarious.

I bow towards you, my friend.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Holy shit, where are the mods when you need them?

 

[yurinka]

No one cared about this stupid hardcore vs casual shit until Nintendo became first again.

Well before DS and Wii were released, Sony was selling some millions of Singstar, Buzz and Eyetoy, and existed the mobile phone games and web games industry showing really good numbers. Back then these games were called casual, even if they weren't the main focus of any first party (they were important but secondary for Sony).

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_game