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August 2008 NPD Results
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
Fady K said:
Lost Odyssey is a different type of JRPG though. It seems that the Final Fantasy-esque aesthetics appeal more in the US, so I would expect Infinite Undiscovery to do better than ToV or Blue Dragon.
But I agree with the marketing. I haven't seen a single ToV commercial, compared to the dozens of IU commercials I've seen.
jj984jj said:Me too, hopefully the positive reception helps sales this month.
I'm also hoping jvm can tell us how it and IU does in next month's report.
Yep, im actually a little optimistic since this is a new IP published by Square-Enix. If Lost Odyssey can pull of 200k in its debut month, then maybe IU can pull off at least half that.
909er said:
Exactly, what bothers me is this might single handedly be the best RPG developed within Namco-Bandai's studios - why didnt they push it a lot harder? But then again, Namco-Bandai barely pushes any of its games these days huh? I dont get how they put so much effort into the game, and dont bother showing it off in the end.
seattle6418
Member
Jag22, let me help you:
Hardcore gamer does not equal sports/racing sim gamer. Your argument is for the second option. A casual football fan might buy the Wii Madden, but the registrated member at www.operationsports.com won't.
That's the last barrier for Wii. If we need examples of games that won't sell on wii, we can still say that simulation heavy titles like NBA 2K or Gran Turismo will not sell on that system. It has nothing to do with third party of hardcore games, it has everything to do with games that will have it's undesputable better version on a console with more horsepower. Madden Wii is different then Madden PS360 because it can't be the same, that's why it goes after a different market, and sells to different gamers.
A hardcore game can sell on the Wii, but the sports/racing sim genre is still untouched. It's mind boggling that some people think that any game of any type will sell on the Wii just because it has a monstruous install base.
There's a reason why games like GTR are not on the Wii. It's totally useless to think "hey, thrid partys are dumb, why x and y are not on the Wii yet?". Some games will work, some won't.
Madden Wii sold what it could: to the casual football fans. Don't blame EA for going "all play" with their sports lineup, if they din't, and the game tried to be "as realistic as the HD versions", they would only sell to rabbib fanboys that feel like they need to defend the Wii on every situation.
I will hold my belief until a competent sports/racing sim breaks this rule, and sim freaks opt for the superior Wii version.
(50 quotes about Tiger Wii incoming, and yes, i have played. It had a reasonable sucess due to the fact that golf was the sport in which the controls were better implemented. One could argue that the hardcore golf fan bought the PS360 version while the casual went for the Wii. Hard to prove that since we don't have any survey on Tiger Woods 07 and 08 owners).
Hardcore gamer does not equal sports/racing sim gamer. Your argument is for the second option. A casual football fan might buy the Wii Madden, but the registrated member at www.operationsports.com won't.
That's the last barrier for Wii. If we need examples of games that won't sell on wii, we can still say that simulation heavy titles like NBA 2K or Gran Turismo will not sell on that system. It has nothing to do with third party of hardcore games, it has everything to do with games that will have it's undesputable better version on a console with more horsepower. Madden Wii is different then Madden PS360 because it can't be the same, that's why it goes after a different market, and sells to different gamers.
A hardcore game can sell on the Wii, but the sports/racing sim genre is still untouched. It's mind boggling that some people think that any game of any type will sell on the Wii just because it has a monstruous install base.
There's a reason why games like GTR are not on the Wii. It's totally useless to think "hey, thrid partys are dumb, why x and y are not on the Wii yet?". Some games will work, some won't.
Madden Wii sold what it could: to the casual football fans. Don't blame EA for going "all play" with their sports lineup, if they din't, and the game tried to be "as realistic as the HD versions", they would only sell to rabbib fanboys that feel like they need to defend the Wii on every situation.
I will hold my belief until a competent sports/racing sim breaks this rule, and sim freaks opt for the superior Wii version.
(50 quotes about Tiger Wii incoming, and yes, i have played. It had a reasonable sucess due to the fact that golf was the sport in which the controls were better implemented. One could argue that the hardcore golf fan bought the PS360 version while the casual went for the Wii. Hard to prove that since we don't have any survey on Tiger Woods 07 and 08 owners).
If that's true then why did Call of Duty 3 for the Wii get outsold so badly by the 360 and PS3 versions? Usually launch games sell well, but COD 3 didn't. One of the biggest IPs in the industry basically flopped on the Wii.seattle6418 said:
Why is that? Because Wii gamers do not buy games like Call of Duty and Madden. There's nothing wrong with that as I've said before. The 3 consoles just have a different demographics, that's all.
I don't think that's the case.Jag22 said:
I think the problem is that those games don't play to the Wii's strengths, so even those who like those games and own a Wii will buy them on other platforms.
That's certainly the case for me. I love FPS titles, but there's no way in hell I'd buy Call of Duty 3 on Wii.
Aaron Strife
Banned
it didn'tJag22 said:
Yet, last year's Madden on Wii performed exactly the same, give or take. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the buyers were the same people.seattle6418 said:
I think the best way to go is not to focus on annual installments but rather go for an evergreen title that capitalizes on the strengths of the Wii.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Proof?Jag22 said:
Everything I've seen has indicated that they sold roughly the same with the Wii version having a slight edge.
seattle6418
Member
Jag22 said:
You are right. That's why i said some cores games might work, some won't. It's a game by game thing. If the motion controls add something substantially new and appealing, it works. If it doesn't, the Wii version won't do as well.
For the record, Call of Duty 5 on Wii will sell considerably less then it's HD counterparts, or, in the most safe response, it well sell differently. The level 54 player, online every day guy will stay HD, but maybe a substantial amount of casual COD players can go Wii.
Aaron Strife
Banned
He made the claim. The burden of proof is on him.basik said:
I'm tired of this always amounting to "What core games will work on the Wii?" when that question is never raised as far as casual games are concerned. Did the failure of Boogie prevent anyone from releasing more casual games on the console?seattle6418 said:
I highly doubt World at War will do anywhere near what the 360 version will do as that seems to be the home for Call of Duty games and the FPS genre in general, but it will at least keep toe to toe with the PS3 version.
WrikaWrek said:
To be honest, my criterion for measuring how revolutionizing something is is how much opinions are polarized. While I wasn't arguing on the forums at the time, I don't remember the Playstation being decried as a regression. I don't remember it being shunned by SNES and Genesis/MD gamers (except for the occasional Nintendo/Sega loyal fans and those who doubted Sony on the sole basis of its being a new entrant). I myself embraced the Playstation without thinking twice about it (and I only owned Nintendo systems at the time), and never looked back.
Don't be mistaken. I still think the Playstation achieved something significant, especially for developers. But I don't think it was revolutionary per se. Revolution is a strong word, it's about changing the name of the game, upsetting the order, what was usually accepted without giving it a thought. And, in that sense, the Playstation wasn't a revolution, and wasn't intended to be one. It was a linear evolution on the same terms than before, the only significant difference being that it was optimized for 3D graphics. Orchestrated music and content were the next logical step, a step that was made easier by the dramatic improvement in storage space allowed by the CD. Noticed what I typed? "Dramatic improvement", as opposed to "revolution". I may sound harsh, but that doesn't sound like revolution to me, just a huge step in a direction the industry was already actively heading towards. The Playstation was a dramatic/radical improvement, a technological leap, but that leap was in the same direction than that of the SNES and the MD relative to the NES and the MS.
You're focusing too much on the example I used. Wii Sports 2 is the most prominent example in my opinion, but that doesn't mean every game must strive to be like WS. Simplicity and motion controls can be applied in an infinity of ways, not just in the "hit-the-ball" kind of way.
I'll start with the end of your post.
Of course, right now, there still is a demand for "bigger" experiences as you call them, I would be in denial if I asserted otherwise. Some games pull huge numbers on the PS360, and the systems themselves, while nowhere near PS2 levels (which we mustn't forget), still manage decently to well. Hell, there will always be demand for that, if you ask me... But who's to say this type of demand won't decline? The question is half-rhetoric, half-food for thought. I believe it will decline, but tossing what I believe aside, just imagine, for a minute, that the demand could indeed decline, even if you yourself still want those bigger experiences (which is fine, to each his own).
Motion controls are one aspect. Why did I choose to talk about them specifically? Because they're the most obvious aspect, it's as simple as that. Everyone acknowledges their key role in the Wii's success (although they alone couldn't do much for Nintendo). Also, they go well with my example, which was WSR. Don't overanalyze thing, I don't think motion controls can do much by themselves. They're just a catalyst to other values. In that case, they were just one simple illustration of my argument, because I feared it (the argument) wouldn't be clear enough without an example.
As for immersion, I think you'll acknowledge, like me, that new gamers discover games with things like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. My question, then, is this: what kind of immersion do these games offer? In these games, the characters are us (as Miis), and the worlds are mere reflections of the real world (Wii Sports), or nonexistent (Wii Fit). At best, they're functional. Even compared to the very first Super Mario Bros., they're not experiences, and they're certainly not immersive. The whole experience in them resides in what you do in front of your TV, not what you do in a virtual world. Even for Mario Kart, as a new gamer, you're likely to have fun because you pretend to drive with a wheel and play with friends, not because you're saving the world. Remember what I said earlier in a long post, to which Brashnir replied? I said that Nintendo designed games to perform a job rather than target a specific audience with specific needs. Actively designing games to be immersive is what you do either because that's you want to do for yourself, or what you want to do for so-called hardcore gamers. Anyway, I'm not saying all of us will like those conceptions and embrace them, especially not on GAF, but that the majority of the market that was already playing games might embrace (let us not forget that GAF is a minority here). I don't know about you, since I don't know you. However, I know that that's what I want eventually, even if I can like a good traditional game.
That last point being made, let me restate something I said in the previous post: I don't mean, nor think that some of the values will completely go away, at least not for a good number of years. Everyone can tolerate, or even like a story in a game, especially if it's not intrusive. However, they won't be in the foreground any more.
One more thing, regarding graphics: following what I said about the values not going completely away (and if you re-read my previous message, you'll see I already addressed that issue), graphics will certainly continue to improve, but as people have been able to accept the Wii's limited capabilities, and even marvel at games that are technologically outdated by next-gen standards (see Super Mario Galaxy), it can reasonably be thought that the pace at which they improve is more and more seen as hasty. If that weren't enough, rising development costs will bring everyone to reason anyway, or doom those who remain too stubborn (more power to small developers, I say!).
Obviously we all like good graphics here, if aesthetically, and we bitch when publishers clearly aren't putting any effort (myself included), but if they were really THAT important, then let's stop right here and think for a second: on GAF of all places, how many people would own a Wii and like some of its games? Almost nobody. You might say I'm going out on a limb and that "ifs" aren't proper arguments, but really, think about it thoroughly for five minutes. Graphics have been held as one of the most important aspects of games for years now. Each generation saw noticeable improvements that were perceived as obvious and necessary. 8-bit, 16-bit, 32/64-bit, 128-bit. On GAF, w.h.o. would own a system that's barely above an XBox if they were still that important? You answer the question, but I sure wouldn't own one (and believe me, I used to fawn over Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur, at the time
). And again, for the last time, I don't mean that graphics will never improve from now on, only that we're at a "good enough" spot that can last for a few years, and that further improvements won't be as dramatic as what we've known at the turn of every generation. Graphics technology is becoming secondary.Of course, all will be answered in time. It's hard too see clearly what's going on, because we're right in the middle of it, but I wonder how we will look back on it in a few years. Most importantly, I wonder what the kids who are growing up today will have to say about this generation and about games in general when they're our age
.[EDIT] By the way, I hope nobody will try to draw me in the RE5 debate, about which I couldn't care less right now
. WrikaWrek just happened to mention the RE series in his post and I responded, but that's it.Jag22 said:
Are you serious? You have done nothing but tried to talk official about sales and then when you are called out on one (which you made the claim) you cant find it and said you "saw it somewhere"....wow next time make sure you know what you are talking about before you post it please
Here is some proof the Wii outsold the PS3 (at least as of Jan 07)
http://wii.ign.com/articles/764/764835p1.html
Also contained was an interesting talk about Marvel Ultimate Alliance, that was one I was unaware sold more on Wii then PS3
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Awesome IGN chart. Is there an appropriate way for me to make sure that everyone that would like to has seen mine, or does everybody read the entire thread? I mean, I think they're valuable, but not sure they need their own thread, but at the same time they get buried so quickly (page 14??). Ideas? Perhaps I could put the link to them or the LC site in my profile.
markatisu said:Are you serious? You have done nothing but tried to talk official about sales and then when you are called out on one (which you made the claim) you cant find it and said you "saw it somewhere"....wow next time make sure you know what you are talking about before you post it please
Here is some proof the Wii outsold the PS3 (at least as of Jan 07)
http://wii.ign.com/articles/764/764835p1.html
Also contained was an interesting talk about Marvel Ultimate Alliance, that was one I was unaware sold more on Wii then PS3
You posted sales data from almost 2 years ago? Really? REALLY?
Jag22 said:
And you posted what NOTHING, thats right when you have something of substance to add then please add it.
You think somehow the PS3 with a much less userbase was going to buy a front loaded game more after the big holiday of 2006??? There is barely any evidence that the PS3 as a platform has ever shown the "legs" needed to keep games going and imitates the 360 front loaded aspect which means what you see a lot of times in the first 45 days if the bulk of the sales unless its a mega hit like Call of Duty 4 which Call of Duty 3 was not
The fact remains that COD3 during its big launch months of 2006 sold more on the Wii then the PS3, now are we adding more conditions to this argument.
I am glad we can keep adding requirements and when you are proven wrong the burden of proof falls on everyone else
Eteric Rice
Member
To be honest, the most immersive games I've ever played were probably Pokemon on the GB, EverQuest, and Super Mario RPG (was mah first RPG).
Pokemon sucked the life right out of me, though. EverQuest to an even greater extent.
Pokemon sucked the life right out of me, though. EverQuest to an even greater extent.
Jag22 said:
False.
EVERY evidence (leaked old NPD numbers, etc.) that we have shows the Wii version is quite a bit ahead of the PS3 version. This was why it was surprising that we didn't get CoD4 on Wii and also why I think the Wii version of CoD: World at War will easily sell a million or two worldwide.
Jaded Alyx
Member
I can't believe this idiocy is still going on in here. Aren't we normally past this by now in these threads? Shouldn't this be the time when all the morons who know nothing about sales but act like they do have left already, leaving those of us with a genuine interest behind to have a decent discussion?
I did read that, but nonetheless the game did pretty poor, especially for a launch game on a system with few games of it's type.markatisu said:
Madden 2009, Scarface, COD 3, NFS: Carbon and The Godfather doing poor while games like High School Musical and Carnival games doing well all point to the Wii's audience being more casual/younger. I dunno why that offends you, it isn't a bad thing. But you seem to think it is. I really dunno why.
Haunted
Member
Post em again if you think they're relevant to the discussion. If they're not relevant to the discussion, they're meant to disappear into the ether. Generally, a link to the Lotuscharts site in your profile would be appropriate, I'd say.PantherLotus said:
You damn attention whore.
edit: and Jag22 couldn't be more obvious if he tried. :lol
DeadyFernGarden
Member
Surely someone can come up with a Casual Hardcore analogy using Casual and Hardcore sex as a comparison?
My attempt
Casual gaming usually done when you are drunk, sometimes it is with your friends. Can be embarrassing the next morning.
Hardcore gaming done in High Definition multiple camera angles and sticks to a few well beaten genres.
My attempt
Casual gaming usually done when you are drunk, sometimes it is with your friends. Can be embarrassing the next morning.
Hardcore gaming done in High Definition multiple camera angles and sticks to a few well beaten genres.
Jag22 said:
Can you not read now either, COD3 on the PS3 got outsold by the Wii version when there were LESS games on the PS3, PS3 owners only had a select few games to buy. So your argument there makes the PS3 look even worse when you are trying to bash the Wii.
Just for the record you seem to be completely dense when it comes to sales age. You discount any Wii game that goes against your view, you say the COD3 got outsold, got proven wrong and then say "well its piss poor sales anyway".
Also I own the HSM game so how I am offended by anything you say? I have been gaming for over 24 years, I enjoy all games but when you throw bs numbers or half truths out like they are fact you deserve to be corrected.
Eteric Rice
Member
Jag22 said:
HOLY SHIT, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT EUROPE.
GARBLEGARBLEGARBLEGARBLE.
*huffs*
D.Lo
Member
The problem I see with COD5 on Wii is that even if the game is decent (unlike COD3 which had lower-tier PS2 graphics and game busting bugs - and before anyone says 'what do you expect' we are talking about the machine that runs the amazing looking and playing Metroid Corruption), the series now has no base on the system as it was rejected for COD4. At best we'll be looking at RE4 on PS2 numbers, as in, a series which abandoned a platform returning after being elsewhere - and even then, the PS2 got RE4 the same year anyway. The peak of the COD series bypassed the Wii, so it's building from near scratch again there, rather then on the foundation of a massive selling release.
So now COD3 did 'poor' on the Wii, and it's been proven it did even worse on PS3 - what does that 'say about the PS3 audience' then? Based on your argument COD4 should have bombed on the PS3, but better game=better sales. Pity no third parties have tried to apply that simple equation to the Wii.
The spin, it's making me dizzy!Jag22 said:
So now COD3 did 'poor' on the Wii, and it's been proven it did even worse on PS3 - what does that 'say about the PS3 audience' then? Based on your argument COD4 should have bombed on the PS3, but better game=better sales. Pity no third parties have tried to apply that simple equation to the Wii.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Wow... the discussion in the thread has gone downhill....
Hardcore games dont sell on wii
madden doesnt sell = third party games dont sell
lets ignore gh3, tiger woods, lego games that all sold better on the wii...
re4wii will sell less than re5 means re sells better on ps3
wii is only for casuals
hardcore gamers dont want re5 on wii
WOW
Hardcore games dont sell on wii
madden doesnt sell = third party games dont sell
lets ignore gh3, tiger woods, lego games that all sold better on the wii...
re4wii will sell less than re5 means re sells better on ps3
wii is only for casuals
hardcore gamers dont want re5 on wii
WOW
Flakster99
Member
bleet bleet, Jag22. 8p
Eteric Rice
Member
Jagg is a joke character.
It's the only explination.
It's the only explination.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Chumly said:
"COD3 PS3 sold better than the Wii version in my house. Look it up."