-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
- Thread starter Bernbaum
- Start date
- Status
Elaugaufein
Member
Hey, it's great being like the US , if you're wealth is measured in tens of millions of US dollars plus and your income is in the high hundred thousands plus of the same. And you're not part of one of the minority groups disproportionately likely to get injured or killed despite that.
LOL just saw an ABC chyron which said that ScoMo hopes that Abbot isn't trying to undermine Turnbull.
Makes sense. After all the US and UK don't have mandatory voting and they don't have anything remotely resembling political deadlock.
Seriously, the reason we have political deadlock is the Coalition is in the middle of a civil war and Mal ran an absolutely disastrous campaign stealing slogans from VEEP that gave him a one seat majority and a mess of a Senate.
bobnowhere
Member
Tories will do just about anything to disenfranchise voters.
At least Di Natalie still has his sense of humour.
At least Di Natalie still has his sense of humour.
His middle name is luigi!
Elaugaufein
Member
Its actually simpler with Reps. Its a by-Election either way so you don't need to involve the court of disputed returns and can just get on with it.
Though balance of power wise it'd be fun.
bobnowhere
Member
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Apparently he and Brandis will address the media shortly, wonder if they are going to challenge it now that it is someone from the government. Canavan is throwing his mother under the bus.
Haha shortest presser ever and even one female journo called it "ridiculous" as they walked out.
Apparently he and Brandis will address the media shortly, wonder if they are going to challenge it now that it is someone from the government. Canavan is throwing his mother under the bus.
Haha shortest presser ever and even one female journo called it "ridiculous" as they walked out.
Yep, it'd be Canning all over again.
roosters93
Member
the more un-australians that are forced out the better i say
Well all three of em are Australians, they've just fallen afoul of pretty dodgy law.
Funny as it is this time there might really need to be an effort to reform things here. Ironically in trying to write a statute to stop our MPs from being influenced by other countries we've given other countries citizenship laws a pretty strong ability to mess with our Parliament. Waters case in particular is pretty absurd.
Funny as it is this time there might really need to be an effort to reform things here. Ironically in trying to write a statute to stop our MPs from being influenced by other countries we've given other countries citizenship laws a pretty strong ability to mess with our Parliament. Waters case in particular is pretty absurd.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm looking forward to the papers today in which I get to see how hard the Murdoch Press can backtrack on how falling afoul of Section 44 means a party is totally incompetent and unfit for government (my bet is that they break a land speed record).
Ruh roh
https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistef...g-a-one-nation?utm_term=.onlJgoOdP#.sod8dWp3y
Possibly number 4
https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistef...g-a-one-nation?utm_term=.onlJgoOdP#.sod8dWp3y
Possibly number 4
bobnowhere
Member
Yeah he's probably and an Indian and British Citizen but unless he self-reports nothing much will happen unless the Senate goes after him or someone else brings it to the court. Not sure if Malcolm has the numbers to piss off the ONP.
Maybe some sort of amnesty needs to be called and the parties get together and work out a solution. Ludlum is probably a lost cause at this point but Waters should fight it and the Canavan thing is pretty weak. The Senate still has a large degree of authority in deciding eligibility.
Interesting timing on the Canavan's Italian Citizenship, also in 2007 his Father was caught and sentenced to jail for 7 years for defrauding Nestle. Not saying they were going to cut and run but...
Elaugaufein
Member
Labor could probably make a formal inquiry about Roberts if they were confident. The Senate President can't really ignore it at that point.
In the interests of clearing this up, he should probably ask all Senators to produce documents showing any possible violations and evidence they were resolved when nominations closed in 2016.
This is getting absurd. If we had adults in government I'd suggest it may be possible to reform the law and given goodwill on both sides just return to the status quo since as far as I know there is no suggestion that any of this was done knowingly.
But we won't have that.
We'll have a shitfight that will make everyone look like fucking idiots. Because they are.
But we won't have that.
We'll have a shitfight that will make everyone look like fucking idiots. Because they are.
Good luck getting a constitutional amendment through even with adults in charge.
Elaugaufein
Member
Honestly the usual failure of Constitutional reform is the 4 of 6 states and territories requirement, because someone usually gets screwed.
I can't see any state or territory giving much of a fuck about changing 44 to owing no loyalty to a foreign power or something similar and equally legally meaningless (you'd have to kick out 50% of our politicians for creepily subservient relationships to the US and probably another 25% for China otherwise). So you could probably manage this.
Abbott's proposal to neuter the Senate would never pass TAS, SA , WA and probably wouldn't pass the NT (their Senate block is weaker but it's all they've got).
I can't see any state or territory giving much of a fuck about changing 44 to owing no loyalty to a foreign power or something similar and equally legally meaningless (you'd have to kick out 50% of our politicians for creepily subservient relationships to the US and probably another 25% for China otherwise). So you could probably manage this.
Abbott's proposal to neuter the Senate would never pass TAS, SA , WA and probably wouldn't pass the NT (their Senate block is weaker but it's all they've got).
Pauline Hanson just smiled somewhere and she doesn't know why.
bobnowhere
Member
Section 44 said:
That part is going to cause complete havoc if they really start to dig into it. It all depends on the laws of other countries. If you were born in a crown colony (Aus, NZ etc...) before 1983 you are entitled to British citizenship. If you have a parent/grandparent born in the UK you are in. In Ireland you only need a great grandparent and you are Irish. In Italy you only need to find a reletive of any generation and you're in.
This is only going to claim more victims until something is done about it. And what about those like Eric Abetz that quietly cleared up their citizenship status well after being elected?
Candescence
Member
So Barnaby Joyce has been caught admitting that he either a) thinks the recent Four Corners episode involving the Murray-Darling Basin irrigation scandal is a "greenies campaign to shut down farmers and towns", and/or b) approves of the criminal water wasting performed by irrigators. It's also proof that Joyce is guilty of flagrant ideological conflict of interest and should never have been given the water ministry.
Guardian: Greens MP Mehreen Faruqi's Senate bid sets up potential challenge to Lee Rhiannon
she'll probably win easily as she's universally liked even by rhiannon's supporters
she'll probably win easily as she's universally liked even by rhiannon's supporters
bobnowhere
Member
Would you trust a man that forgot he'd been to the UK just a month previously?
One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts denies he lied, is 'choosing to believe' he was never a UK citizen
Candescence
Member
Oh, I wouldn't trust Barnaby on anything - he's an absolute scumbag and a fucking idiot, and he's more interested in the short-term interests of big farmers up in northern NSW, towns and farms downriver and the long-term health of the basin be damned. Seriously, fuck the Nationals, and the people who vote for them are idiots for not realizing that the Nats don't really represent their interests anymore.
I just watched the Four Corners episode (I'm baffled that the online episodes aren't in proper HD, but still), and I saw the reaction of Sue Higginson (the CEO of the Environmental Defenders Office) as Linton Besser told her Gavan Hanlon was actively discussing a plan with irrigators and their lobbyists for NSW to walk away from the Basin Plan. She was clearly trying to stay composed, but the way she raised her eyebrows screamed "are you shitting me?!"
In fact, I might be so bold as to say that cotton farming should be scaled back or outright banned in the region. Such a water-intensive crop being grown in a country like this is fucking absurd.
Elaugaufein
Member
The Nationals and similar groups would never go along with that. Cotton is all that keeps some of those businesses and nearby towns afloat.
Though you're right the Nats should never have gotten Water , that was a blatant political concession with clear consequences.
This is clearly a Shovel article the smh has reposted. Why can't I find it on the Shovel ? Or the Chaser or the Betoota Advocate. I refuse to believe this is real.
Though you're right the Nats should never have gotten Water , that was a blatant political concession with clear consequences.
This is clearly a Shovel article the smh has reposted. Why can't I find it on the Shovel ? Or the Chaser or the Betoota Advocate. I refuse to believe this is real.
bobnowhere
Member
So Roberts is claiming he sent a letter to the British High Commission renouncing his citizenship a few days before nominating but didn't receive a replay until the 5th of December, well after he was elected. But British authorities say he didn't actually renounce his citizenship until the 5th of December. Roberts refuses to show any documents until he gets an inquiry into the citizenship status of the entire senate which sounds a lot like the political equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"
He also refuses to release the document because the twitterati will make fun of him. What a special little snowflake he truly is.
Edit: And just to increase the funny to near epic levels the #3 on the QLD senate ONP ticket as of 8 days ago now had bankruptcy proceedings commenced against him! I'm starting to wonder that at this rate I might get a go in the Senate for someone so I might have to renounce my British dual-citizenship and check out my potential Irish and American status.
Edit 2: The 4th and final person on the QLD ONP ticket is Pauline's Sister!
He also refuses to release the document because the twitterati will make fun of him. What a special little snowflake he truly is.
Edit: And just to increase the funny to near epic levels the #3 on the QLD senate ONP ticket as of 8 days ago now had bankruptcy proceedings commenced against him! I'm starting to wonder that at this rate I might get a go in the Senate for someone so I might have to renounce my British dual-citizenship and check out my potential Irish and American status.
Edit 2: The 4th and final person on the QLD ONP ticket is Pauline's Sister!
Elaugaufein
Member
I feel like if you're considering sitting as an MP, you should send a letter to every country except Australia, asking if you're a citizen or have any special conferral rights and how to revoke it if so. If nothing else you'll get to confuse ~190ish embassy staff.
bobnowhere
Member
It's probably a good idea at this point.
Victoria Labor MP Khalil Eideh banned from traveling to the USA while on a cross parliamentary study tour. He had a visa but, guess what, he's Muslim and was born in Lebanon though not one of the 7 banned countries.
The parliamentary citizenship circus continues on.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...n-liberal-mp-julia-banks-20170728-gxkiiq.html
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...n-liberal-mp-julia-banks-20170728-gxkiiq.html
D.Lo
Member
I guess this is what you get when your political class are largely from upper middle class globetrotting families. Lower classes cannot afford to travel, and normal actual immigrants would have become citizens and renounced their other countries' as part of that process.
Still pretty harsh on Waters, she's the one who was screwed the most and has no real ties at all to Canada.
Still pretty harsh on Waters, she's the one who was screwed the most and has no real ties at all to Canada.
Elaugaufein
Member
You haven't had to renounce your ties in the Australian ceremony since 86, and I believe we formally recognised dual citizenship since 1996, so even normal immigrants would likely be caught if they weren't naturalised as adults and aware that it didn't revoke* (this is what happened to Ludlam he thought he'd lost his NZ Citizenship through becoming Australian but his legal advice this year said he hasn't, which suggests he was naturalised post 85).
* Or are something like 47+ years old at this point.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'd have to check at this point that none of Germany, Scotland , the UK, or Norway have any kind of passive descent citizenship. And to be safe I'd probably have to make sure that I have none of the highly contagious citizenship ancestries at all (DNA test , maybe ? Can't be sure that none of my ancestors were getting some on the side after all 
or were my ancestors at all). And I'm 3rd generation Australian-born. That's kind of insane.
or were my ancestors at all). And I'm 3rd generation Australian-born. That's kind of insane.bobnowhere
Member
I don't think Antony Green hasn't been this busy outside of election time ever!
Chisolm is serious, it was the only seat that went Labor -> Liberal at the last election mainly due to an organised Chinese language campaign on social media but it's still very marginal. They'll fight this one very hard.
Chisolm is serious, it was the only seat that went Labor -> Liberal at the last election mainly due to an organised Chinese language campaign on social media but it's still very marginal. They'll fight this one very hard.
I'd have to check at this point that none of Germany, Scotland , the UK, or Norway have any kind of passive descent citizenship. And to be safe I'd probably have to make sure that I have none of the highly contagious citizenship ancestries at all (DNA test , maybe ? Can't be sure that none of my ancestors were getting some on the side after all
Depending on your circumstances, you can probs scratch off Germany (and probs UK) based on my experiences. I have German grandparents (that never naturalised) and def don't have citizenship after applying with the consulate a number of years ago.
That being said, I found some documentation recently where my mother travelled internationally as a child as a german citizen, sooooooo.... back to being complicated.
Candescence
Member
Holy shit, this is actually happening. The Greens are one thing, but the fucking Coalition? Every goddamn party is gonna be going over citizenship issues with every canditate come the next election and every election after that just to avoid this clusterfuck ever happening again.
Elaugaufein
Member
Its not so much the Coalition fucked up here. Its that pretty much the only ruling is fron 1992 and they took a "we'll know it when we see it" approach because they favoured plain reading but realised that was manifestly moronic since any other country can shut down out Government by conferring the rights of a citizen on every Australian for example. That means there's a lot of technical situations that may count but haven't come up like if you have a "right" to a citizenship you haven't taken up.
Candescence
Member
Sounds like that part of the constitution needs to go, or at least be rewritten. Its purpose kinda makes sense in principle, but increasingly unworkable these days.
Aarglefarg
Member
Ew I saw someone (nobody of note) arguing that Jewish people aren't eligible due to Israel's law of return even if they don't take it up.
(i) is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power; or
'Entitled' meaning it doesn't matter if they take it up, they argued.
The constitution needs fixing for sure.
(i) is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power; or
'Entitled' meaning it doesn't matter if they take it up, they argued.
The constitution needs fixing for sure.
Elaugaufein
Member
I've seen that from a serious source as well. It would hinge on if potential citizenship / rights you haven't taken up but could count. If they do the right of return would count.
Though I think the best effort would resolve that, you formally ask to renounce it, Israel probably refuses on the ground it's a permanent offer to all Jews so the only way you can renounce it is to cease being Jewish. The High Court is unlikely to view that as reasonable.
Still stupid though. The papers all seem to have written Constitutional reform of though. Probably because the majors don't care atm. But there's no reason this couldn't happen. Its got a better chance than 4 year terms of properly phrased frankly and they talk that up (Fixed 4 year terms at least have a definitive practical effect you can object too on some grounds ).
Interesting. That completely slipped my mind. Surprised this has not been tested before.
Elaugaufein
Member
I would like to note the level of discussion around this in the media is awful. With a conflation of citizenship, professed or assumed allegiance and actual allegiance.
I can be exclusively a citizen of Australia and have allegiance to Lex Luthor before Australia. Or I could formally be a citizen of Russia, having taken oaths of obedience to Russia and actually be an Australian spy loyal to Australia.
The only actual bits that should matter are actual allegiance (which is untestable a priori) and debts to foreign powers which could be leveraged (which you could argue come from special conference of rights like citizenship).
I can be exclusively a citizen of Australia and have allegiance to Lex Luthor before Australia. Or I could formally be a citizen of Russia, having taken oaths of obedience to Russia and actually be an Australian spy loyal to Australia.
The only actual bits that should matter are actual allegiance (which is untestable a priori) and debts to foreign powers which could be leveraged (which you could argue come from special conference of rights like citizenship).
Elaugaufein
Member
If that's the case that oughta do it. Now that it's hit the ALP and Libs actual sensible talk about reform ought to start happening.
Quelle surprise.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...loor-on-samesex-marriage-20170731-gxm9lc.html
Next week might be interesting.
- Status