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[Jintor]

What a fucking joke

 

[wonzo]

spending $100m+ to ensure you'll never win the next election is 15th dimensional golden chess

 

[Elaugaufein]

spending $100m+ to ensure you'll never win the next election is 15th dimensional golden chess

You don't understand
Turnbull wants to be PM longer than Abbott was and any price is fine to make that happen
The Conservatives want to delay marriage equality as long as possible , preferably into the next Government if not longer and weaken Turnbull's leadership and any price is fine.

No one cares about winning the next election or enormous fecking wastes of taxpayer money.

 

[Quasar]

And the living soul is officially off to the High Court. PHON decided to move the motion themselves as soon as it was clear the Greens/Labor/NXT/Crossbench had the numbers anyways.

We really should just have a parliament wide check all in one go.

 

[wonzo]

You don't understand
Turnbull wants to be PM longer than Abbott was and any price is fine to make that happen
The Conservatives want to delay marriage equality as long as possible , preferably into the next Government if not longer and weaken Turnbull's leadership and any price is fine.

No one cares about winning the next election or enormous fecking wastes of taxpayer money.

The thing is Turnbull absolutely thinks he can turn things around with things like the budget and horseshit "pragmatic" ideas like this. It won't but he's comfortable deluding himself that it will.

 

[Quasar]

The thing is Turnbull absolutely thinks he can turn things around with things like the budget and horseshit "pragmatic" ideas like this. It won't but he's comfortable deluding himself that it will.

Is he? Or has he finally realised that's all he can do and stay Liberal leader.

 

[bobnowhere]

Interesting question in QT, Turnbull was asked if he had met with the Victorian Mafia boss that Guy is imbroiled with, it was ruled out of order but you don't ask a question like that if you don't already know the answer.

 

[wonzo]

Is he? Or has he finally realised that's all he can do and stay Liberal leader.

He's trying to steer back to the "sensible centre" (kill me) and placating the right wing flank in the process by giving them the postal plebiscite, the National's corrupt water dealings, and Dutton's fascist power grab. It'll convince the bougie Fairfax/AFR types that love to obsess every Tuesday over last nights Q&A but it won't work on the rest as they've already tuned out & decided to vote for the ALP, Greens, NXT, or Pauline's latest scam.

 

[Shandy]

The most frustrating thing about this is that when Turnbull is toppled in a spill - which, short of a Labor catastrophe, he most certainly will be at some point before the next election - he'll be allowed by both the media and the people to retreat from the public eye with few taking him to task for the fact that he's selling us down the river for the sake of the top job.

He deserves to be eaten by his own party. Hell, they could literally eat him and I wouldn't care.

 

[Dead Man]

He's trying to steer back to the "sensible centre" (kill me) and placating the right wing flank in the process by giving them the postal plebiscite, the National's corrupt water dealings, and Dutton's fascist power grab. It'll convince the bougie Fairfax/AFR types that love to obsess every Tuesday over last nights Q&A but it won't work on the rest as they've already tuned out & decided to vote for the ALP, Greens, NXT, or Pauline's latest scam.

So he's trying to find a centre by caving to right wing bigots and small n nationalists/fascists. Yep, sounds like Turnbull.

 

[Dryk]

He deserves to be eaten by his own party. Hell, they could literally eat him and I wouldn't care.

Turnbull being dragged onto the steps of parliament and eaten by Nationals is only worthwhile if they put a powdered wig on him first.

 

[bobnowhere]

Rules against malicious campaign material will not apply to same-sex marriage postal vote

Senator Cormann said "the usual laws apply" regarding fraud and mail theft, but acknowledged there would be no legal protections for LGBTI people who fear they will be the victim of a vicious two-month hate campaign.

Pick the RWNJ:

Spoiler

Bronwyn Bishop

says many Australians are alarmed that the institution of marriage “is being tampered with’’ which could lead to polygamy.

“The institution of marriage, that is a thousand years old, is being tampered with. And if it can be changed from having a man and a woman to any two people why not three, as it is in Colombia,’’ the

Spoiler

former speaker

told Sky News.

Spoiler

She

went on to say that many voters were troubled by the arguments of progressives. “You’ve got Professor Peter Singer, who believes that children if they are disabled should be put to death at birth. And also if there is sex between humans and animals, that is fine as long as they are both satisfied.

“People are suspicious of the so-called progressive movement and at the end of the day the Australian people get it right. The Australian people should be trusted.’’

 

[bomma_man]

So should we vote or boycott?

 

[Omikron]

So should we vote or boycott?

I will be voting at this stage, the lack of detail on the actual legislation is a clear ploy to get people not to vote imo however. The whole thing stinks, but I don't currently feel a boycott achieves anything.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I'm going to vote Yes unless there's a clear and well-organised move by the effected groups to boycott. Can't see any reason to do otherwise.

 

[Aarglefarg]

What 4D chess plan are people coming up with to justify doing something other than vote for marriage equality?

EDIT: I see Michael Kirby says it treats us as second class citizens and therefore supports a boycott. Oppose the postal vote idea for that reason but once it happens, just vote!

 

[bomma_man]

I'm going to vote Yes unless there's a clear and well-organised move by the effected groups to boycott. Can't see any reason to do otherwise.

This is what I'm thinking too

 

[wonzo]

I'm going to vote Yes unless there's a clear and well-organised move by the effected groups to boycott. Can't see any reason to do otherwise.

p. much tho i feel like a boycott is exactly what tony abbott and lyle shelton want

 

[danm999]

Postal vote is a win win for no.

If they win they claim a mandate.

If the lose they claim the inherent unrepresentative nature of the postal plebiscite (which they designed) means the results mean nothing.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Postal vote is a win win for no.

If they win they claim a mandate.

If the lose they claim the inherent unrepresentative nature of the postal plebiscite (which they designed) means the results mean nothing.

That 2nd bit would be hard to argue from their position. The whole postal plebiscite thing is structurally biased in favor of the No case (demographics with stronger No percentages are more likely to participate, the way the outcome is treated (No is binding, Yes isn't.) in far more places than Yes (actually I can't think of anywhere it's structurally biased in favor of Yes beyond that we already know Yes is a majority of the population ).

 

[danm999]

That 2nd bit would be hard to argue from their position. The whole postal plebiscite thing is structurally biased in favor of the No case (demographics with stronger No percentages are more likely to participate, the way the outcome is treated (No is binding, Yes isn't.) in far more places than Yes (actually I can't think of anywhere it's structurally biased in favor of Yes beyond that we already know Yes is a majority of the population ).

They'll just blame ballot stuffing and GetUp justifying it as a reason to kick the can down the road. Maybe they'll blame Turnbull too for letting it happen.

I wouldn't be shocked if the party room refuses to acknowledge the result. Yes it's electoral suicide but so is everything they do.

 

[bobnowhere]

I mean, do we think so little of our fellow Australians and our ability to debate important matters of public interest that we say: 'You're not able to have a respectful discussion about the definition of marriage', which is a very significant, important, fundamental element in our law and in our culture.

- Malcolm Turbull

Respectful discussion part 1

 

[Elaugaufein]

I mean, do we think so little of our fellow Australians and our ability to debate important matters of public interest that we say: 'You're not able to have a respectful discussion about the definition of marriage', which is a very significant, important, fundamental element in our law and in our culture.

- Malcolm Turbull

Respectful discussion part 1

The existence of the ACL is a pretty good argument that you shouldn't expect all Australians to be able to have a respectful discussion.

 

[Dryk]

I mean, do we think so little of our fellow Australians and our ability to debate important matters of public interest that we say: 'You're not able to have a respectful discussion about the definition of marriage', which is a very significant, important, fundamental element in our law and culture

Yes. I am. I know how this dog and pony show goes.

Fuck off Malcolm.

 

[TropicalFish]

The ACL comparing children of same sex couples to the stolen generation of indigenous aborigines is vile.

This plebiscite is the pits and I'm not looking forward to the smear campaign against the LGBTQIA community that's already starting.

 

[bobnowhere]

They'll just blame ballot stuffing and GetUp justifying it as a reason to kick the can down the road. Maybe they'll blame Turnbull too for letting it happen.
.

I'm waiting for Getup! to become the right wing bogeyman, can't be to long now till someone goes on the Bolt Show and claims Getup! are unfairly skewing the result.

Even the government have given up on calling it a plebiscite, it's now a survey.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I'm waiting for Getup! to become the right wing bogeyman, can't be to long now till someone goes on the Bolt Show and claims Getup! are unfairly skewing the result.

Even the government have given up on calling it a plebiscite, it's now a survey.

That's probably smart. With a High Court challenge announced its probably best to say it is a survey since a plebiscite would need Parliamentary approval.

 

[danm999]

The ACL comparing children of same sex couples to the stolen generation of indigenous aborigines is vile.

This plebiscite is the pits and I'm not looking forward to the smear campaign against the LGBTQIA community that's already starting.

Like most of them give a shit about the Stolen Generation anyway. I mean the No side is trotting John Howard out FFS.

 

[bobnowhere]

That's probably smart. With a High Court challenge announced its probably best to say it is a survey since a plebiscite would need Parliamentary approval.

Yes, I suspect they had some advice before QT to that effect.

 

[yepyepyep]

I'm gay but currently in London. Am I allowed to vote in the marriage poll?

 

[bobnowhere]

I'm gay but currently in London. Am I allowed to vote in the marriage poll?

According to this, yes. You need to update the AEC with your overseas address and register as an overseas voter, you have until August 24th to update the AEC website.

 

[Jintor]

The ACL comparing children of same sex couples to the stolen generation of indigenous aborigines is vile.

i know that's not the way their metaphor swings but they like understand that part of that whole thing was people saying "these people can't have kids" right

 

[hirokazu]

Do you have to register if you're already on the electoral roll?

 

[Omikron]

Do you have to register if you're already on the electoral roll?

No, but go here to check. https://check.aec.gov.au/

 

[hirokazu]

No, but go here to check. https://check.aec.gov.au/

Okay, I'm ready to vote in this dumb poll.

 

[bomma_man]

Brandis confirmed to us (Community Legal Centre Conference) that he will be campaigning for yes.

Dreyfus let slip that he thinks the High Court case is about a 50/50 prospect of success.

#hotscoops

 

[danm999]

Brandis confirmed to us (Community Legal Centre Conference) that he will be campaigning for yes.

Dreyfus let slip that he thinks the High Court case is about a 50/50 prospect of success.

#hotscoops

If the High Court knocks it down I can't even imagine what chaos ensues.

 

[wonzo]

If the High Court knocks it down I can't even imagine what chaos ensues.

private members bill goes ahead with (hopefully) more libs crossing the floor

 

[bobnowhere]

Interesting to see Brandis confirming he'll campaign, the rest of cabinet that will or is assumed will vote yes seem to be desperate to appear to not stand for anything, Turnbull, Bishop etc... I wonder if the far right have scared them off from making too much noise?

Apparently Michal McCormack's, the minister in charge of the ABS, views have evolved, possibly:

”A week never goes by anymore that homosexuals and their sordid behaviour don't become further entrenched in society," he wrote in the Wagga Wagga newspaper The Daily Advertiser, where he was then a journalist.

”Unfortunately gays are here and, if the disease their unnatural acts helped spread doesn't wipe out humanity, they're here to stay."

 

[bomma_man]

Yeah, I'd have to listen again. He might've just said "supported" or something else similarly non commital.

 

[bobnowhere]

Silent electors, people like politicians and others that don't want their details to appear on the public roll may not be able to take part in the survey!

The AEC is forbidden from sharing the silent electors details with the ABS. If this isn't a sign of just how half-arsed the process is...

 

[Elaugaufein]

Silent electors, people like politicians and others that don't want their details to appear on the public roll may not be able to take part in the survey!

The AEC is forbidden from sharing the silent electors details with the ABS. If this isn't a sign of just how half-arsed the process is...

If the High Court ends up allowing this, it's possible to pass legislation allowing sharing and applying Electoral standards for surveys of this nature. Though thy'd have to ensure appropriate security (silence electors include people in witness protection)

 

[firehawk12]

Just watching Australian news and holy shit does this postal plebiscite seem like bullshit that makes the Brexit referendum seem rational and well planned.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Just watching Australian news and holy shit does this postal plebiscite seem like bullshit that makes the Brexit referendum seem rational and well planned.

That's because it is. Brexit vote may have been dumb and badly organised but this is both those things and an explicit end run around Parliamentary approval.

 

[Elaugaufein]

According to todays media for the sake of peace the ranks Coalition cabinet members will not be campaigning outside their electorates on SSM , whether they are personally For or Against.

(Best argument I've ever heard for putting Abbott back in the Cabinet)

 

[Elaugaufein]

Both Lib and Lab campaigning for as yet uncalled Qld State Election in McConnell this morning. Didn't see Greens but I know they've been door knocking and phone banking in the past month. Looks like everyone thinks it's going to be on soon.

(Probably won't see PHON campaigning here anytime soon but I strongly encourage them to waste their resources doing so if they want to. )

 

[bobnowhere]

According to todays media for the sake of peace the ranks Coalition cabinet members will not be campaigning outside their electorates on SSM , whether they are personally For or Against.

(Best argument I've ever heard for putting Abbott back in the Cabinet)

So we're going to see 3 months of Shorten vs. Abbott with Turnbull having left the field, I can't believe the people at Lib HQ think this is a solid strategy. When it's all over no one is going to take Turnbull seriously as a leader if they even do now. Make no mistake, until Novemeber/December nothing else will penetrate the media other than SSM.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Make no mistake, until Novemeber/December nothing else will penetrate the media other than SSM.

And not in the good way either.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So we're going to see 3 months of Shorten vs. Abbott with Turnbull having left the field, I can't believe the people at Lib HQ think this is a solid strategy. When it's all over no one is going to take Turnbull seriously as a leader if they even do now. Make no mistake, until Novemeber/December nothing else will penetrate the media other than SSM.

I imagine they think it's the least worst strategy rather than a good one. The other option is to pit PM and Deputy PM against each other , as well as to exacerbate the existing tensions between the moderates and conservatives. It wouldn't matter which outcome wins since senior figures would cop blows to their reputation either way ( particularly Turnbull and Dutton / Cormann who are essentially his right flank guard. Cormann at least is likely sincere at the moment of doing it for the sake of the party, Dutton on the other hand is clearly angling for Turnbull's job and seeing off other challengers, so he can't afford a failed campaign any more than Turnbull can and they can't both win. The situation with Turnbull and Joyce is very similar except regarding the Coalition of their parties rather than personal standing.)

 

[Quasar]

So we're going to see 3 months of Shorten vs. Abbott with Turnbull having left the field, I can't believe the people at Lib HQ think this is a solid strategy. When it's all over no one is going to take Turnbull seriously as a leader if they even do now. Make no mistake, until Novemeber/December nothing else will penetrate the media other than SSM.

Well that depends on whether Trump causes a war in the meantime.