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[Arksy]

That is not the only rationale behind the campaign.

I get that there's an imbalance right now. In that there is a huge gap of toys for girls that provoke natural curiosity, teach creativity in the same way that lego sets, construction kits and other such toys that are traditionally marketed to males.

Like this.

There's a huge difference in saying we need more toys like that, so that girls might discover a love of engineering while young...and saying that gendered toys are the bane of existence. They haven't articulated their point well, and it's just become a war on gender.

P.S. It's also worth noting that while Goldie Blox been praised for the fact that it's catering these kinds of toys to girls, it is still obviously gendered and would therefore not be allowed under this campaign. Which would be a shame because it's working wonders.

 

[hidys]

I get that there's an imbalance right now. In that there is a huge gap of toys for girls that provoke natural curiosity, teach creativity in the same way that lego sets, construction kits and other such toys that are traditionally marketed to males.

Like this.

There's a huge difference in saying we need more toys like that, so that girls might discover a love of engineering while young...and saying that gendered toys are the bane of existence. They haven't articulated their point well, and it's just become a war on gender.

This campaign is not aimed specifically at toys. It is aimed at marketing toys at certain genders.

Shit like this:

 

[Arksy]

So that toy should not be marketed to girls? You tell me, how does this campaign (called "no gender december" no less) deal with Goldie Blox?

 

[hidys]

So that toy should not be marketed to girls? You tell me, how does this campaign (called "no gender december" no less) deal with Goldie Blox?

A necessary evil.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Those really old Lego kits with boxes of red bricks used to come with a guide for parents. It specifically says that parents should encourage children do whatever they want with Lego - if girls want to make spaceships (because spaceships are cool) and boys want to make doll houses (because its more personal than cars and guns), they should be encouraged to do so.

Gendered marketing towards boys and girls is pretty darn insidious, especially in the United States where "learning toys" are often colour coded blue and "cooking and dolls" are colour coded pink.

 

[Arksy]

Here's a useful historic fact.

Before WWII, blue was considered to be feminine while pink was considered masculine and for some reason that no one really understands...they inverted.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Agreed. Stretching toys to be the cause of DV is pretty extreme. The greens aren't doing any good going for it. It just alienates them more with mainstream views.

I'd prefer if they spent their time going after gambling and alcohol instead - a far, far, faaaaaaar greater cause of it.

Alcohol and gambling addictions cause domestic violence in the same way that unemployment, poverty or mental illness do. These things also cause racism/xenophobia and tribalism in forms ranging from political polarisation to football hooliganism. Basically they are exacerbating factors for already existing social/cultural issues. If getting rid of alcohol and gambling was going to stop domestic violence then social workers the world over would be pointing to strict Islamic states as the example to follow. There are alcoholics and gamblers who aren't DV perpetrators and there are tee-totallers who wouldn't even have a flutter on Cup day who are. Most who acknowledge that Australia has a problem with male violence against woman (and children) would also accept that views and understandings of gender are at the heart of the issue but of course there are difficulties communicating the extent of it, as this beat-up demonstrates.

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this as I'm a bit tired and because I definitely support efforts to curb alcohol and gambling addictions and do agree that doing so would mitigate domestic violence, but in terms of tackling the problem in some ways I would consider such efforts to be complementary to the main thrust, which must address cultural and social issues around gender, of which things like No Gender December are just one small effort.

Spoiler

Just to let you know how much worse this post could have been the above paragraph was initially a tortured military analogy where one was a major conflict in a secondary theatre requiring many resources whereas the other was a smaller engagement that was nonetheless part of the more decisive campaign.

 

[Arksy]

If it makes you feel any better, I highly enjoy your tortured analogies.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Here's a useful historic fact.

Before WWII, blue was considered to be feminine while pink was considered masculine and for some reason that no one really understands...they inverted.

When I did a semester in contemporary art, I read sections of a book talking about this phenomenon. The change occurred due to marketing. It got heavily entrenched in our society with the rise of accurate pregnancy testing.

In hindsight, affordable and accurate pregnancy testing was basically a manufacturer's wet dream. Mum and dad can now find out the gender of their child. And with that, they can buy a crapload of shit for their incoming baby boy and girl.

 

[Myansie]

Epistemological example of deductive reasoning. If A => B and B => C then A => C. By that token, their argument is that toy's for boys = domestic violence.

To which I say, citation needed.

It's hyperbolic, but no more than the debt and deficit disaster.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Here's a useful historic fact.

Before WWII, blue was considered to be feminine while pink was considered masculine and for some reason that no one really understands...they inverted.

I thought it was WW1. Not that it matters, really.

 

[DrSlek]

Here's a useful historic fact.

Before WWII, blue was considered to be feminine while pink was considered masculine and for some reason that no one really understands...they inverted.

Then there was that brief period of pink shirts and popped collars...maybe it changed back after WWI to get rid of those dickheads...

 

[Jintor]

SBS says the deregulation legislation has been defeated 33-31

 

[Dryk]

Chris Pyne clearly didn't send enough texts

 

[Jintor]

"This is just the beginning" says Pyne, grasping at the ledge. "Just round one... I'll be back! Back with CPI indexation and something for Muir! You'll all seeeeeeee"

 

[Shaneus]

Apparently he got REALLY flustered on 7:30 last night. I need to iView that shit and see for myself. An angry Pyne = a happy Shaneus.

 

[Fredescu]

So that toy should not be marketed to girls? You tell me, how does this campaign (called "no gender december" no less) deal with Goldie Blox?

It's a transitionary product. Eventually this sort of thing won't need to exist. The best selling products are the ones with the broadest base.

 

[bobnowhere]

Chris Pyne clearly didn't send enough texts

Sadly he only needs 2 more votes. Xenophon has already said he is nearly onboard and I'm sure at some point Palmer will swoop in, attach a tiny amendment to remove 1% of the bad and claim he has saved the entire university sector. Maybe he'll bring Al Gore along.

 

[Fredescu]

Scott Morrison announces an increase in the refugee intake to 18750. From 13000. From 20000. From 13000.

 

[mjontrix]

Is Pyne serious about pushing the exact same education bill again?

He's insane, truly, truly insane.

 

[Fredescu]

He just needs to convince Xenophon, which he sounds like he's confident of doing, and one other. Not that insane.

 

[Elaugaufein]

He just needs to convince Xenophon, which he sounds like he's confident of doing, and one other. Not that insane.

The vote that got shot down was whether to allow a second reading and allow the possibility of amendments so its not a given that everyone that voted to allow that would then accept whatever amendments happened. So he needs to keep the three crossbenchers he's got and win over 2 more. Still doable mind you but a higher bar since he's got 3 more he has to keep happy.

 

[markot]

The fact that it is so close is scary.

Doesnt help that most of the VCs are championing this bullshit.

 

[ConstructMe]

How can so many of these fucks agree with the bill, appaling.

 

[tri_willy]

https://www.facebook.com/BillShorten/posts/753046051398625

go tell pyne what you think... by sending an sms to the number in this fb post. if any of you's dont use fb, the number is 0477 333 555, your messages will be sent to pyne

 

[markot]

https://www.facebook.com/BillShorten/posts/753046051398625

go tell pyne what you think... by sending an sms to the number in this fb post. if any of you's dont use gb, the number is 0477 333 555, your messages will be sent to pyne

haha

 

[Fredescu]

Source: http://essentialvision.com.au/government-legislation

 

[Mr. Tone]

How long 'til the next election? It's been fun, but I think I've had enough now.

 

[Myansie]

Source: http://essentialvision.com.au/government-legislation

Is there a Labor equivalent? Even their more unpopular policies like the carbon and mining taxes were somewhere in the 30s from memory.

Edit: same site says that from 2010 to 2012 the mining tax approval varied between 46% and 55%. The carbon tax was a little shakier in the high 30s. I'm on my phone so posting the tables is a bit trickie.

 

[Fredescu]

Yeah, I had a look through too and came to the same conclusions.

43% support vs 36% oppose for resources super profits tax: http://essentialvision.com.au/rspt-support

52% support generally increasing taxation on mining: http://essentialvision.com.au/approval-of-taxation-proposals

38% approve delaying the ETS: http://essentialvision.com.au/approval-of-ets-decision

40% support Labors parental leave vs 24% Abbott: http://essentialvision.com.au/parental-leave-policy

34% approval for the libs (in opposition in 2010) climate change policy: http://essentialvision.com.au/liberal-party-climate-change-policy

But a few months later 45% support for the libs climate policy vs 30% supporting a carbon price generally: http://essentialvision.com.au/addressing-climate-change


I couldn't find anything in the 20s with a quick flick through, but I didn't make it to the Gillard era yet.

Edit: Here's an interesting overview of the policies toward the end of Gillards term: http://essentialvision.com.au/decisions-of-the-labor-government

Carbon Tax by far the lowest at 28%

 

[Arksy]

I agree with deregulation of fees.

Currently, fees are capped, which means if a university wants to raise more money it has only one option, increase capacity.

They've gone completely overboard and massively increased intakes for so many streams that many graduates can't get jobs for dedicated specialised professional jobs like dentistry, medicine, law and accounting. It's absurd that people go to university for over five years to train to become a specialist in a field and then come out and have to compete with thousands of other graduates for a few hundred jobs.

The only issue is that if you take the incentive to increase positions from universities, I'm not sure it'll fix the problem. They've already increased positions and changed their infrastructure and operations to accommodate the increased intake. I suppose this would also be less of a problem if there was commensurate growth in the economy, but there simply isn't..

 

[ConstructMe]

I agree with deregulation of fees.

Currently, fees are capped, which means if a university wants to raise more money it has only one option, increase capacity.

They've gone completely overboard and massively increased intakes for so many streams that many graduates can't get jobs for dedicated specialised professional jobs like dentistry, medicine, law and accounting. It's absurd that people go to university for over five years to train to become a specialist in a field and then come out and have to compete with thousands of other graduates for a few hundred jobs.

The only issue is that if you take the incentive to increase positions from universities, I'm not sure it'll fix the problem. They've already increased positions and changed their infrastructure and operations to accommodate the increased intake. I suppose this would also be less of a problem if there was commensurate growth in the economy, but there simply isn't..

but what is the money spent on, i had 200 students in a subject all paying over 1k on average, 200k is plenty for a subject considering they supply no materials and its once a week for about 3 hrs.

 

[wonzo]

nick xenophon™ stamp of approval

It also “fast-tracks” refugee processing, removes rights of appeal and allows authorities to take detained vessels or persons anywhere in the world regardless of international or domestic law.

 

[Elaugaufein]

but what is the money spent on, i had 200 students in a subject all paying over 1k on average, 200k is plenty for a subject considering they supply no materials and its once a week for about 3 hrs.

Some money is spent on research by post-grads/post-docs/staff (though probably not a lot given the presure on academics to get grants and industry partnerships), some on facilities (buildings/labs/IT infrastructure etc), some on salaries (both academic and managerial staff), some goes towards scholarships.

The cost of a class can vary immensely across the stage of the class and faculty too, a first year math class costs ~nothing, 3rd year biology or 4th year engineering class can require specialised equipment and materials consumed by using them and the tuition is somewhat redivided to account for this.

Are there inefficencies ? Yes but largely the ones you see in the private sector rather than the public (eg management staff at higher ranks get pay disproportionate to their utility because as a society we suck at dividing up the profits caused by force multipliers and tend to attribute it to public facing individuals).

 

[magenta]

I thought universities make the bulk of their money from foreign students, education is a huge part of our economy.

 

[Dryk]

There's nothing to stop universities from increasing fees and capacity. There are no reprecussions for flooding the market with graduates so why wouldn't they.

 

[ConstructMe]

Yeah thats a good question why do so many foreigners come to our unis? its expensive as fuck for them.

 

[markot]

Yeah thats a good question why do so many foreigners come to our unis? its expensive as fuck for them.

Is a good education. Our universities are well considered.

Its the elite though, they can afford it.

Western education tends to travel better too because the system is generally more rigid and less corruptable.

 

[hidys]

Stories like this make glad we have the T.A.C in Victoria.

 

[Bernbaum]

More here: https://www.facebook.com/textsfrompyne

 

[hidys]

 

[i_am_ben]

Yeah thats a good question why do so many foreigners come to our unis? its expensive as fuck for them.

Half come for the education, and the other half come to get citizenship.

 

[Omikron]

 

[Shaneus]

Keep it classy, Australian.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I agree with deregulation of fees.

Currently, fees are capped, which means if a university wants to raise more money it has only one option, increase capacity.

They've gone completely overboard and massively increased intakes for so many streams that many graduates can't get jobs for dedicated specialised professional jobs like dentistry, medicine, law and accounting. It's absurd that people go to university for over five years to train to become a specialist in a field and then come out and have to compete with thousands of other graduates for a few hundred jobs.

The only issue is that if you take the incentive to increase positions from universities, I'm not sure it'll fix the problem. They've already increased positions and changed their infrastructure and operations to accommodate the increased intake. I suppose this would also be less of a problem if there was commensurate growth in the economy, but there simply isn't..

Huh? This is an odd rationalization. Just look at America. Fees would rise, intake will increase regardless thanks to international students and the labour demands of a global marketplace, and grad positions will continue to grow scarcer.

Better to be honest about what the guaranteed results will be: higher student debt and larger profits for higher education institutions. I don't think the latter warrants the former, but obviously many in the Liberal Party disagree.

 

[wonzo]

christine milne's essay which had the right wing gobber chris uhlmann on abc's am legit mad is up on the net

 

[markot]

christine milne's essay which had the right wing gobber chris uhlmann on abc's am legit mad is up on the net

nice

 

[Shaneus]

christine milne's essay which had the right wing gobber chris uhlmann on abc's am legit mad is up on the net

Yeah, that's fucking awesome. Is that Uhlmann thing up on iView? Is it from this morning?

 

[Fredescu]

Yeah, that's fucking awesome. Is that Uhlmann thing up on iView? Is it from this morning?

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2014/s4134480.htm

 

[JesseEwiak]

Huh? This is an odd rationalization. Just look at America. Fees would rise, intake will increase regardless thanks to international students and the labour demands of a global marketplace, and grad positions will continue to grow scarcer.

Better to be honest about what the guaranteed results will be: higher student debt and larger profits for higher education institutions. I don't think the latter warrants the former, but obviously many in the Liberal Party disagree.

A libertarian's worst fear is a service being provided without somebody making a profit off it.

Oh, and by the way, people will still flock to the "hot" jobs and overpopulate them - they'll just be stuck with thousands in debt at the end of the day.