There's a severe lack of distinction between saying something racist and being a racist in current discourse. Of course which side of the line Abetz ends up on depends on how he handles being called out
EDIT: Whoops accidentally double-posted
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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
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EDIT: Whoops accidentally double-posted
D.Lo
Member
I think it's likely Abetz is a racist, but I don't think it is a racist term, just an outdated/old fashioned one. And the SMH headline said 'racial slur'.
It may have been decided by some people it is now an offensive term (?), but is not a racist term, as I said, Martin Luthor King used it dozens of times in his most famous speech.
It may have been decided by some people it is now an offensive term (?), but is not a racist term, as I said, Martin Luthor King used it dozens of times in his most famous speech.
It can be a slur though. It's all contextual. I don't personally think he meant it to be a slur when he was using it that way... but...
I mean, like, take for instance calling someone a Jew. That could be descriptive, brotherly, affectionate, a group in-joke, an insult, a perjorative, accusatory...
context
I mean, like, take for instance calling someone a Jew. That could be descriptive, brotherly, affectionate, a group in-joke, an insult, a perjorative, accusatory...
context
D.Lo
Member
That's true, but can apply to anything. Add the word 'dirty' in front of pretty much any group name, it's now a slur.
But yes I see the point, and it's almost the one I'm making as well. The inference is that Abetz said it, therefore it must be racist. But that is not supported by the direct context, where it was clearly meant just as a racial description.
Ironically enough, his argument was actually almost literally 'see - even one of my black best friends said it' (regarding not agreeing with gay marriage).
D.Lo
Member
Yep that is true.
Anyway sorry I'll drop it. I loathe Abetz, I worked in industries under his previous portfolio.
Employment services under him (and his inbred assistant minister) was redistributed to big foreign business, and bent backward to meet their inane 'work for the dole' goals. And they were both supremely unimpressive people in terms of understanding what they were in charge of.
Anyway sorry I'll drop it. I loathe Abetz, I worked in industries under his previous portfolio.
Employment services under him (and his inbred assistant minister) was redistributed to big foreign business, and bent backward to meet their inane 'work for the dole' goals. And they were both supremely unimpressive people in terms of understanding what they were in charge of.
Old article? Is it doing the rounds now or something?
looks like it
It's just one of those things that pop into mind when you say Chris Kenny.
He won the court case, though
Some of the annoying conservationist stuff the Greens do: http://davidshoebridge.org.au/2015/...nkstown-urban-renewal-corridor-have-your-say/
High density housing around public transport is good. More housing supply is good. Forcing low income people further away from their jobs is not worth the price of retaining "historic town centres."
High density housing around public transport is good. More housing supply is good. Forcing low income people further away from their jobs is not worth the price of retaining "historic town centres."
By the way, it's not strictly political, but the whole Goodes saga with the DJs thing is pretty great since apparently a bunch of people who were just worried about football are just, you know... I dunno
D.Lo
Member
Yep, excellent example go their often whacked out priorities..
Sorry, can't really agree with you there. Unless public transport is an absolute turd (and significantly worse than it is in Melbourne) then there are always alternatives to demolishing historic buildings. I just don't think increasing population density is good for anyone or any number of the services (like schools, medical facilities) that would be severely impacted.
But I don't know the area though and maybe those things aren't as much of an issue as much as they tend to be elsewhere.
Yeah, I'm actually glad it all happened. I know several people who say they were booing (or sympathising, at least) because of his playing style (as much as I *didn't* agree) but no-one can defend the things the out-and-out bigots are saying now. Thank fuck all these closet racists have been flushed out.
D.Lo
Member
Sydney public transport, and transport in general, is significantly worse than it is in Melbourne.
Lower population density drives up property prices and you may have heard a thing or two about Sydney property prices lately. If those services were going to be impacted, you might want to put together a comphensive plan that involves those services. Like this for example: http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/en/P...~/media/C5A71CB412194A4F92A94B5081A930FE.ashx
There's a big difference between visiting and living here too. There is a functioning transport system that probably works for a visit, but having to find a place to live and find a place to work is a completely different experience.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah, vistors don't need to get from Hurstville to Strathfield etc.
Any Drones fans here? Gareth Liddiard gave interview in the Guardian about new song, choice quote:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/oct/23/gareth-liddiard-of-the-drones-its-time-leftwingers-grew-some-balls?CMP=soc_567
The song, pretty brutal on contemporary Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkgaCRII7I
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/oct/23/gareth-liddiard-of-the-drones-its-time-leftwingers-grew-some-balls?CMP=soc_567
The song, pretty brutal on contemporary Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkgaCRII7I
Wouldn't have queried my statement if I'd had a bad experience with it. Was fine when I was there a few months ago, did the job quite well.
Fair enough, then! I'm just erring more on the side of "if it can be preserved and is of historical significance, it should be". If there's a plan and the people behind it aren't infrastructure ignorami, then it's all good. I'm just over the whole infrastructure, infrastructure, development, development spiel that happens everywhere because apparently it's the solution to everything ever.
It's funny, because the idea that something has intrinsic value simply because it's old is a purely conservative standpoint. And yet!
The thing about Sydney public transport is that the quality of it can change dramatically depending where you are. I'm actually in a really good spot. The express from Emu Plains to Central is great - about 52 minutes. That's less than it took me on the bus from Collaroy on the Northern Beaches when I was going to UTS, but about three times the distance.
A fast train from Emu Plains to Central would be awesome though.
bobnowhere
Member
Latest Morgan Leadership poll. OK it's not Essential or Newspoll but holy moley, time to walk Bill when even Swanny is preferred ahead of you.
Apparently Turnbull hit 14% post Godwin Grech, but Rudd was never that high in response.
Apparently Turnbull hit 14% post Godwin Grech, but Rudd was never that high in response.
It is, which is why there are plenty of old school conservative greenies.They're just not a political force because money gives you political power, so being anti development isn't going to get you as far as being business friendly does. There are lots of conservatives pissed off about climate change denial too. I follow a Tory MP John Deben on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lorddeben . Obviously I don't agree with a lot of what he has to say, but where's the fun in just following people you agree with, and he's highly critical of the Harpers and Abbotts of the world for their position on climate change.
D.Lo
Member
hey at least Shorten beat Abbott lol!
Just amazing really. Our two options for two years were pretty much the least popular possible.
Although teddy Roosevelt was progressive for his day in a lot of his areas, his environmental policy, which lead to the creation of the first national parks, were openly based on conservative values.
and, he really liked shooting shit
bobnowhere
Member
One of the interesting results of Abbott's removal was the voting intentions of people in his electorate. There were some vox pops after the deed and there were plenty of people saying they would jump ship from Liberal to The Greens, a few people who would look for a further right wing party and pretty much no one who'd consider Labor. Though going on the numbers they are firmly back in the Coalition camp.
I think it shows that while the membership is very right wing, the vast majority of people who vote coalition are far more moderate but have been so poisoned against the ALP they would never even consider them. I wouldn't be surprised to see The Greens go hard at the North Sydney by-election, hell until Turnbull became PM The Greens though they had a great chance of winning Peter Costello's blue ribbon old seat and now Kelly O'Dwyer's. I also fear for Plibersek and Albo at the next federal election if Turnbull maintains his popularity, they'll both lose to The Greens with Liberal preferences.
I think it shows that while the membership is very right wing, the vast majority of people who vote coalition are far more moderate but have been so poisoned against the ALP they would never even consider them. I wouldn't be surprised to see The Greens go hard at the North Sydney by-election, hell until Turnbull became PM The Greens though they had a great chance of winning Peter Costello's blue ribbon old seat and now Kelly O'Dwyer's. I also fear for Plibersek and Albo at the next federal election if Turnbull maintains his popularity, they'll both lose to The Greens with Liberal preferences.
Elaugaufein
Member
Its pretty rare for the Liberals to preference the Greens these days (they stopped doing it when the Greens started winning Senate seats and then acted even more Left-wing than Labor (shock)). Though yeah I could see them making an exception to cost Pilbersek or Albonese their seats (though its not something Abbott ever would have accepted).
And yes there certainly are conservatives who have absolutely bizarre ideas about the Labor Party (my mother remembers my grandfather talking about fleeing the country during the Whitlam saga. It'd be hard for that to not have an effect on you). Though you'd think the last 10 yeas of conservative push again the "Labor-Greens alliance" and the Greens would ameliorate the tendency to jump to the Greens.
Elaugaufein
Member
It does make you wonder what exactly they are voting for though. I mean its not even an anti-Union vote in terms of policy stance the Greens are usually at least as pro-Union as Labor. In terms of membership they are far less so (since the Greens are far more white collar proportionally). It's like they are voting against Labor specifically. And I say that as someone who jumped from the Coalition to the Greens myself but that's because my family was conservative and when I started actually following politics myself my views were much more aligned with the Greens but that's a one off leap not a swing vote.
Elaugaufein
Member
Yep. Wonder how much of it is an effective "Honeymoon Period" and how much of it is that the ALP don't seem to have developed an effective strategy to counter the loss of the Not Tony Abbott factor.
bobnowhere
Member
Pat Power is a very decent man, he's like the Anti-Pell.
Even as an ex-PM, he's still living up to his reputation as international embarrassment. >_>
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Disappointing to see such bigotry given a media platform. Better to ignore it imo.
But then we get bigotry in this very thread!
And of course the Anglicans are up for a bit of Catholic bashing!
How is that Catholic bashing?
that is very well summarized
and the stupid bully is selling his human right violating bullshit overseas now that hes "succeeded" here
he's joking
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