Support NeoGAF

[Elaugaufein]

In other news Labor continues to be somewhere between useless and actively harmful on human rights issues if you scream "National Security" at them. I don't know why I'm bothering to note this since its basically their default state now.

 

[Jintor]

opposition party remains the greens

 

[wonzo]

 

[Shaneus]

Where the fuck is that from?

 

[Yrael]

http://imgur.com/gallery/0cB9YpE

 

[bomma_man]

Channel 7 already talking about Australian Muslims and refugees, ugh.

Abbott is going to come out of this feeling vindicated.

 

[Dryk]

What the fuck am I reading

A research paper to be released on Monday says "there is nationwide support for abolishing stamp duty and increasing the GST to 12.5 per cent".

Furthermore, "the belief that the GST is fair is widespread across the nation", it says.

Respondents did indeed rate stamp duty as the least fair tax and GST as the fairest.

But a closer look at the results reveals respondents would prefer an income tax cut over the abolition of stamp duties.

Sixty-four per cent of respondents said they would support the axing of stamp duty in exchange for a GST hike to 12.5 per cent. But a slightly higher 68 per cent favoured an income tax cut if they were to have to stomach a higher GST.

http://www.afr.com/news/politics/na...ut-survey-finds-20150712-giadq2#ixzz3rh2ewh9A

 

[Fredescu]

"The survey was commissioned by the Property Council of Australia"

The survey was commissioned by the lobby group of an industry that would directly profit from the abolition of stamp duty.

Also, that's from July?

 

[Dryk]

"The survey was commissioned by the Property Council of Australia"

The survey was commissioned by the lobby group of an industry that would directly profit from the abolition of stamp duty.

Oh thank god. I was ready to walk outside and burn the whole country down.

 

[Fredescu]

Here's one from today: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2015/11/17/national-affairs/australians-open-gst-hike-poll

Pasted below because these get paywalled at random:

Australians open to GST hike: poll

There is widespread support for increasing the GST if the poor are compensated and other taxes tweaked, a Fairfax Ipsos poll suggests.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has taken an "everything on the table" approach to tax reform in recent weeks.

The poll, published on Tuesday, shows a higher GST is backed by just 28 per cent of voters.

However, that figure jumps to more than half when lower income tax rates and changes to stop exploitation of superannuation tax breaks by the wealthy are suggested.

Pollster Jessica Elgood told Fairfax that 52 per cent of people would support the change if compensation was offered for households on less than $100,000 and other tax cuts implemented.

Meanwhile, the Coalition has jumped ahead of Labor in two party preferred terms 56 per cent to 44 per cent.

On the primary vote, the Coalition sits on 48 per cent, Labor 29 per cent, the Greens 13 per cent and others 8 per cent.

But it is Mr Turnbull's preferred PM rating which has sky-rocketed, with 69 per cent support compared to just 18 per cent for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten.

Ms Elgood said it's "the lowest approval rating Bill Shorten has ever received since becoming leader of the opposition and matches the low figures Tony Abbott achieved in January 2015 before the first leadership spill motion".

 

[Jintor]

Eighteen percent? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

fucking turnbull hasn't even done anything and ol bill is getting his teeth kicked in

 

[Fredescu]

ol bill is getting his teeth kicked in

Also

 

[Shaneus]

Oh shit, that was Shorten?!? When I heard them say "member of the opposition" I thought they were talking about state, not federal.

Just fucking get Albo in there.

 

[roosters93]

Also

Sounds a bit like the ALP under Bill Shorten huehuehue

 

[D.Lo]

Poor bugger. That will do him in.

It's too late for Albo now too IMO. If ALP had changed first then they'd possibly be facing Abbott maybe, or would get at least some credit for getting rid of him. Now they look weak if they switch (which they are).

 

[wonzo]

it'll either be plibersek or bowen

 

[D.Lo]

I hope Pilbersek, I don't want Bowen wasted on an unwinnable election either.

But they won't put Pilbersek in either, she pissed off the right by breaking party ranks a couple of times, and is a bit of a female Shorten honestly, weakly negative and not an inspiring speaker.

 

[Shaneus]

But they won't put Pilbersek in either, she pissed off the right by breaking party ranks a couple of times, and is a bit of a female Shorten honestly, weakly negative and not an inspiring speaker.

They wouldn't put in Plibersek because she's a bit of a Shorten, but Shorten is currently head of Labor?

I just wish Greens were a viable alternative at the moment, there are so many good people in their party I'd rather have as the leader of a significant opposition :/

 

[Rubixcuba]

Shorten can't and won't go. Whilst myself and majority of other party members want him gone, new rules makes it way too unlikely.

Besides, as was said above, with way Turnbull is performing Liberals will probably be returned to government (depends on 2016 Budget I suppose). I wouldnt want to waste Albo/Tanya double on an election like that.

 

[danm999]

Shorten will go out to crash the party into several cars at election next year, they'll change after that is my guess.

Unless Mal fucks something up something fierce in the next 12 months.

 

[Jintor]

right but they're stuck with shorten until they can get a good alternative, you don't want to keep cycling through leaders anymore, if you're going to gut one make sure the replacement sticks

fuck my life, another 4 years of the libs probs. i celebrated at the time but i knew in my heart knifing tony only meant they'd be viable again come election season

 

[Rubixcuba]

right but they're stuck with shorten until they can get a good alternative, you don't want to keep cycling through leaders anymore, if you're going to gut one make sure the replacement sticks

fuck my life, another 4 years of the libs probs. i celebrated at the time but i knew in my heart knifing tony only meant they'd be viable again come election season

Change of leader again would be exhausting, public at large would be 'lol there they go again!' People despised Abbott whereas they think Shorten is merely inept. Can't see any bounce in polls with Albo/Tanya currently.

Turnbull's first budget will be what decides election. Depends how much 'political goodwill' Turnbull can use to make cuts + raise revenue.

If there's a move for an expanded 15% GST + Penalty Rate changes then it'll be mighty close race.

 

[shanshan310]

I kinda like shorten I don't get to hear him speak much but he always has good things to say when he does, like on that QandA episode.

 

[wonzo]

leadership changes are pretty common and non-controversial in opposition. shorten's a really good speaker when he tries but i dont think he has it in him anymore after tone got knifed

I hope Pilbersek, I don't want Bowen wasted on an unwinnable election either.

But they won't put Pilbersek in either, she pissed off the right by breaking party ranks a couple of times, and is a bit of a female Shorten honestly, weakly negative and not an inspiring speaker.

the right owe plibersek for screwing over albo & giving shorten support in the caucus leadership vote. though tbh i can see some on the left supporting bowen out of sheer spite

still, better bowen than burke

 

[Rubixcuba]

I kinda like shorten I don't get to hear him speak much but he always has good things to say when he does, like on that QandA episode.

I think he speaks well and can spur some emotion in people. Shame is that vast majority of electorate have tuned out to him.

better bowen than burke

This x 100000.

 

[Jintor]

leadership changes are pretty common and non-controversial in opposition. shorten's a really good speaker when he tries but i dont think he has it in him anymore after tone got knifed

i agree, he's a good speaker when he wants to be but he barely ever seems to trot it out or to put himself out there. hell, most of what i remember about shorten besides his like two or three firey speeches is mostly him saying ME TOO after tony says something idiotic

 

[D.Lo]

I kinda like shorten I don't get to hear him speak much but he always has good things to say when he does, like on that QandA episode.

He did really well in that Q&A, but that was a rare performance.

They wouldn't put in Plibersek because she's a bit of a Shorten, but Shorten is currently head of Labor?

Yes? There's no point changing if you are just changing to more of the same. Then you get all the negatives of a change (especially if it's forced on Shorten) with none of the positives.

Yeah I think the ALP is cooked for next election. And it was (unbelievably after the public response to the Rudd knifing by faceless union men) because they as a party put in a union lackey over the people's choice. Impossible to say how differently history would play out, but I think Albo would have sliced and diced Abbott and Hockey within a year.

 

[Dryk]

They should've dropped Shorten eons ago. Dragging this out is only making things worse, he's not leader material and the ALP lost the election as soon as the LNP knifed Abbott. Sadly I think that like Abbott, Shorten doesn't want to give up his chance at history no matter how much of a bad idea it seems to everyone else.

 

[danm999]

There's an argument to be made somewhere Shorten is largely responsible for the past few years of instability in general. Making it possible to switch from Rudd to Gillard and back again. Making it possible for Abbott to become PM because of Labors implosion. Making it possible for Abbott to last as long as he did.

 

[D.Lo]

There's an argument to be made somewhere Shorten is largely responsible for the past few years of instability in general. Making it possible to switch from Rudd to Gillard and back again. Making it possible for Abbott to become PM because of Labors implosion. Making it possible for Abbott to last as long as he did.

Quite a strong argument too, none of those three things could have happened without him.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Agreeing with those who've mentioned that there's been flashes of a decent opposition leader from Shorten. If he was pumped full of illegal stimulants and perhaps a steroid stack for image and confidence he may have had enough momentum to make Turnbull actually earn his approval rating.

Here's one from today: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...-gst-hike-poll

Pasted below because these get paywalled at random:

More evidence for the suspicion that we're all mean, miserly tories, deep down. A price on carbon accompanied by a tripling of the tax free threshold (amongst other things) is a "great big tax on everything,", but increasing the actual great big tax on everything because it's so "efficient", then tinkering with almost every other aspect of the tax and welfare system to compensate for it? Why, it's practically a necessity!

 

[Elaugaufein]

Yup, agree that Shorten has had a few flashes of decent leadership material but most of the time he seemed content to let Abbott torpedo himself while triangulating anything even theoretically dangerous.

It's amazing how the most "efficient" thing is also regress in terms of discretionary spending too. It's almost like poor people can't buy their way out of taxes.

 

[D.Lo]

More evidence for the suspicion that we're all mean, miserly tories, deep down. A price on carbon accompanied by a tripling of the tax free threshold (amongst other things) is a "great big tax on everything,", but increasing the actual great big tax on everything because it's so "efficient", then tinkering with almost every other aspect of the tax and welfare system to compensate for it? Why, it's practically a necessity!

Well, more proof that you need an inspiring leader to get anything done.

Abbott actually sort of qualifies as an inspiring leader in that sense - but only if the thing that needed doing is tearing something down.

I was discussing Abbott today - he really was successful in a certain sense - he drew one election (after just one term in opposition) and won the second, got rid of two PMs (three even, sort of), was leader of his party for five years, and led the national debate for at least half of that time. Overall technically a pretty good run. A better political run than Whitlam on those terms, and equivalent to Keating.

Of course in reality he was the insane freak we got only because Australia hated Labor so much at the time, but so was Johnny Howard, who unfortunately didn't leave over enough public assets for Tony to sell to 'balance the budget' this time.

What a bizarre little political period we've had.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Yeah, I don't think it can be debated that Abbott was a fantastic opposition leader (in the competitive sense). He was just a terrible Prime Minister.

 

[wonzo]

 

[Fredescu]

Pretty sure they're referring to the guy that said this:

And then you have a journalist that thinks that the phrase "condemns all forms of terrorist violence" does not condemn terrorist violence: https://twitter.com/elisejourno/status/666714511915663360

We're officially at the "Media is outright lying to you" stage of warmongering.

 

[Elaugaufein]

But they really really want their war. I mean its not like the last time we went tromping off to invade vaguely defined targets in the Middle East directly contributed to the current issue or anything.

 

[Fredescu]

Obama had a pretty good rebuttal to the libs idea of only letting christians in:

From: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/17/republicans-congress-syrian-refugees-us-paris-attacks

 

[hidys]

Holy shit I haven't posted here in over a month.

Anyway was anyone else robo-called by the ACTU last night over the proposed superannuation changes?

And I know is has been almost two weeks but I hope you're doing all right Arksy.

EDIT: Don't I owe somebody a post on union membership decline? How long ago was that?

 

[DrSlek]

This just in: A Boat!

 

[Fredescu]

EDIT: Don't I owe somebody a post on union membership decline? How long ago was that?

Yes, I think I read a Rundle bit in the meantime that vaguely affirmed the notion that Hawke was at least a bit responsible.

 

[Shaneus]

This just in: A Boat!

For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share

 

[wonzo]

 

[DrSlek]

...I don't understand what's happening in this image.

 

[bobnowhere]

...I don't understand what's happening in this image.

I suspect he's riding it like a horse to taunt the counter-protesters in the background?

Anyway, nice to see Mal Brough hopefully finally getting his comeuppance. Dirty, grubby man and a very serious mistake by Malcolm to blindly give him a big job. There was a reason he and Sinodinas were on the outer of Abbott's government, both are damaged goods.

 

[bomma_man]

Abetz retained his no1 preselection :/

 

[Candescence]

Meanwhile, the Greens and Labor pass a senate bill to remove kids from offshore detention, among other things.

The intent here is obvious - Malcom will look bad in somebody's eyes no matter how the vote goes down in the lower house. Voting against removing kids from horrific offshore detention will throw a wrench in his 'progressive' image for moderates and the left, while making concessions on asylum seekers will piss off the right in his own party.

This'll be fun to watch.

 

[wonzo]

that "cool" qanda leather jacket tho

 

[Dryk]

I like how the SMH seem to have deliberately structured this like a parody article

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/face-of-r...aterson-insists-im-not-racist-20151124-gl77iw

 

[Jintor]

He insisted he was not racist, referring to his friendship with the Bangladeshi owner of the kebab shop that he frequents.

"I don't actually know his name, I call him Bangladesh, he's my mate from the gym," Mr Paterson said.

i love this

"Newcastle council want to let some of those 12,000 Syrian refugees come to settle here, but there isn't even any housing for Australian people."

"They're all over in their countries blowing each other up, and they want to bring all that here. I say just leave them there."

Mr Paterson said he was frustrated that people judged tattooed people on their appearance.

"People judge you just for the way you look, without knowing anything about you, which I think, that's not fair," he said.

just amazing