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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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S

seanoff

Member
I see the Feds have pulled info about the NBN roll out

Ummm people, not informing your voters what is going on is not a valid long term strategy in a democracy.

Might work in a dictatorship, in a democracy where you rely on your voters for your job, not so much.


The new liberals. Fuck information, you dont need it.
 
K

Kreunt

Banned
stay classy campbell newman team
mXfJfdD.jpg

bookface link
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
markot said:
Yeah, you cant blame QLDs problems on unicamalism.

QLD is whiggidy.

Also a big part of the problem Australia wide is that we dont elect people, we just get sick of the last lot. So we have constant huge swings that enable the more fringey elements, especially in a place like QLD. Its taken as a huge mandate to govern, when in reality, it was just a rejection of the last lot.
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Actually objectively swings are usually pretty small (a ~12% swing would effectively wipe a political party out for a term) . It's the fact that we have district based single representation for the House of Representatives (and the entire legislature in QLD) that make them seem huge. Massive defeats are usually only 8% swings (the current Federal situation was ~4%). That's far smaller than the proportion of rusted on voters. Heck its smaller than the proportion of Greens voters in most states. But in district based single person elections you can theoretically win 49.9% of the of the overall vote and get 0 seats* , so a national average swing from 48% to 52% can effectively reverse what seems like overwhelming majorities. Effectively winner take all elections magnify the effect of swing voters , and regional representation results in swing seats which have magnified effects too. Whether or not this is a good thing or bad thing can be argued , it leads to relatively stable government since ties are actually very rare but without appropriate checks and balances (like a second house, or recall capability) it pretty much allows the fringe to run the show when the wind blows their way.

*As a further bonus in a few states there are larger rural districts tend to be given greater voting power (i.e the have less people to elect a representative) , so even winning more than 50% of the overall vote could theoretically leave you with 0 seats.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
seanoff said:
I see the Feds have pulled info about the NBN roll out

Ummm people, not informing your voters what is going on is not a valid long term strategy in a democracy.

Might work in a dictatorship, in a democracy where you rely on your voters for your job, not so much.


The new liberals. Fuck information, you dont need it.
Click to expand...

Welp, some news has been coming out now. And it's largely

"We have altered the terms of your contract. Pray we do not alter it further".

They've changed some existing (but not impelmented) contracts to FTTN instead of FTTP (and may have cut some areas).
 
A

Arksy

Member
Elaugaufein said:
Welp, some news has been coming out now. And it's largely

"We have altered the terms of your contract. Pray we do not alter it further".

They've changed some existing (but not impelmented) contracts to FTTN instead of FTTP (and may have cut some areas).
Click to expand...

Court battles ahoy.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
Auditors to be paid $1500 a day to recommend spending cuts
Members of the team hand-picked by the Abbott government to rein in spending will be paid $1500 a day.

The Coalition's election costings earmarked $1 million for the government-wide commission of audit, set up last week to consider ways to cut costs and privatise assets or services.

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann told Fairfax Media the Business Council of Australia president, Tony Shepherd, would be paid $1500 a day to head the commission.

The same rate would apply for the four other commissioners: former Liberal minister Amanda Vanstone, former Finance Department secretary Peter Boxall, former Treasury chief Tony Cole and former West Australian director-general Robert Fisher.

''This level of remuneration recognises the skills, experience and responsibilities of the commissioners and the fact the role is of limited duration,'' Senator Cormann said.

''Commissioners will be paid on a pro-rata basis where they do not work a full eight-hour day.''
Click to expand...
jobs for the boys~
 
W

wonzo

Banned
Arksy said:
I wonder what'll happen if we can't recover the ballots.

Original result must stand, surely.
Click to expand...
Antony Green said the most likely result would be a fresh Senate election for the six seats or declaring the first four and re-electing the last two.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Arksy said:
I wonder what'll happen if we can't recover the ballots.

Original result must stand, surely.
Click to expand...

Antony Green just said that unless the 1300 or so votes are found, the original count can't be properly scrutinised so that's unlikely. Headed to High Court it seems.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
wonzo said:
Antony Green said the most likely result would be a fresh Senate election for the six seats or declaring the first four and re-electing the last two.
Click to expand...

Re-electing the last two seems like it'd be pretty much guaranteed to give you either 2 Coalition or 1 Coalition and 1 Labor unless there's different rules for situations like this.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Arksy said:
That would be funny, PUP and Greens cause a fuss, both lose out due to rules.
Click to expand...

It would be funny, but allowing major parties to essentially guarantee themselves all candidates by carving out smaller numbers of Senator's elected seems like a bad precedent to set.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Elaugaufein said:
It would be funny, but allowing major parties to essentially guarantee themselves all candidates by carving out smaller numbers of Senator's elected seems like a bad precedent to set.
Click to expand...

Bad precedent to set in the case of the AEC being incompetent and losing over a thousand votes? Sure.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Arksy said:
Bad precedent to set in the case of the AEC being incompetent and losing over a thousand votes? Sure.
Click to expand...

I have long ago lost faith in the ability of politicians to not take opportunities like this and run them into the ground (e.g the parachuting in that happens with vacancies of senate seats, thanks to the rules requiring them to come from the same party after state politicians abused the previous rules to elect members from the ruling party of the state). Keeping things as neutral as possible seems like the optimum outcome even if it is at a higher expense.

There's also the issue that scrutineers tend to have at least some party allegiance so it wouldn't be that hard for someone unethical to misplace 1000 votes on demand.
 
H

hidys

Member
Meanwhile Bob Brown has officially challenged Jacqui Lambie to a debate regarding the effect of the Greens policies in Tasmania.
 
i_am_ben

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
I wish I got $1,500 a day to open an email from a Liberal Party adviser and paste it into a word document.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Man, they should put me on the panel.

I'll at least do it properly. Won't privatise HECS or Medibank Private but the Federal Deparments of Shit the States are Supposed to Do (transport, health, etc) will be terminated before you can say 'crazy nut-job' :D

Hell, I'll even do it for free!
 
D

Dryk

Member
I'm not getting fibre anymore. I did not think I could get angrier about the NBN situation but here we are.

DrSlek said:
As of today, there are no workmen on NBN rollout sites.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/when-do-i-get-it/rollout-map.html?icid=pub:hme:rollout:hro:img

Fuck you, Turnbull. Just....fuck you...
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Because 5 months with no income is what those contractors need to stay afloat... Also there was no chance of Turbull making his rollout deadline as it was, now that he's ground work to a halt and killed all his contractors it's going to be even worse.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Hang on...there might be some good news for FTTP lovers! He's just approved 150k MORE premises to be connected.

Source.

Originally, the Coalition’s policy was to have seen fibre to the premises deployed to a significantly lesser proportion of the population — 22 percent — with 71 percent covered by fibre to the node technology, where fibre is extended to neighbourhood ‘nodes’ and the remainder of the distance to premises covered by Telstra’s existing copper network. The Coalition’s policy was also continue to use the HFC cable network operated by Telstra and will also target the remaining 7 percent of premises with satellite and wireless.

However, the possibility of a different style of rollout has been raised by Turnbull in the several weeks since the Liberal MP became Communications Minister. In late September, Turnbull appeared to have drastically modified the Coalition’s policy stance on the NBN just weeks after the Federal Election, declaring the Coalition was not wedded to its fibre to the node model and was “thoroughly open-minded” about the technology to be used in the network. NBN Co is currently conducting a strategic review into its operations and model that will inform Turnbull’s decisions regarding the project’s future.
Click to expand...
 
A

Arksy

Member
And Clive Palmer won in the seat of Fairfax and will apparently try to bring down the Newman government using parliamentary privilege.

I'll be frank, I disagree with Labor on a lot of fundamental issues. They believe government to be this big benign impartial arbiter of fairness and equality. I disagree wholeheartedly but I do respect their position.

What Newman is doing, speaking as a member of the same party, is downright dangerous. I attacked Labor's media laws as being dangerous, but this is a whole other ball game.

Get this, legitimate bike riders are being asked to log their rides with police so they don't get hassled on the roads by cops.

You get it? People are being asked to LODGE THEIR INNOCENT ACTIVITIES WITH THE POLICE, so they don't get HARASSED BY THE POLICE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE PULL THEM OVER WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE.

So Mr Palmer, as you may.....
 
H

hidys

Member
Arksy said:
And Clive Palmer won in the seat of Fairfax and will apparently try to bring down the Newman government using parliamentary privilege.

I'll be frank, I disagree with Labor on a lot of fundamental issues. They believe government to be this big benign impartial arbiter of fairness and equality. I disagree wholeheartedly but I do respect their position.

What Newman is doing, speaking as a member of the same party, is downright dangerous. I attacked Labor's media laws as being dangerous, but this is a whole other ball game.

Get this, legitimate bike riders are being asked to log their rides with police so they don't get hassled on the roads by cops.

You get it? People are being asked to LODGE THEIR INNOCENT ACTIVITIES WITH THE POLICE, so they don't get HARASSED BY THE POLICE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE PULL THEM OVER WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE.

So Mr Palmer, as you may.....
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No premier of any state since Joh (or prime minister for that matter) has ever so brazenly discarded the rule of law.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Anyone know of any good general Australian history books?

I've been listening to an audiobook of the People's History of the US and it's greaaat
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
bomma_man said:
Anyone know of any good general Australian history books?

I've been listening to an audiobook of the People's History of the US and it's greaaat
Click to expand...

Manning Clarke - History of Australia. It's 6 volumes, though I only have an Abridged version. It's also not thought of fondly by conservative types, Chris Pyne would probably turn bright red and steam at the thought of it.

Interestingly I use to have lectures at the Manning Clarke theatres!
 
B

bomma_man

Member
bobnowhere said:
Manning Clarke - History of Australia. It's 6 volumes, though I only have an Abridged version. It's also not thought of fondly by conservative types, Chris Pyne would probably turn bright red and steam at the thought of it.

Interestingly I use to have lectures at the Manning Clarke theatres!
Click to expand...

Thanks, sounds like the kinda thing I'm after.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Manning Clark*

His history, speaking as a history major is very, very good. Just understand that he takes a black armband view of history. Which means his historical analysis is coloured by a very negative view of our history. People say he's left wing because he looks at history through the lens of race and class but I don't buy that it makes someone left wing. You can disagree with the premises of his perspectives but he is still well worth the read.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Arksy said:
Manning Clark*

His history, speaking as a history major is very, very good. Just understand that he takes a black armband view of history. Which means his historical analysis is coloured by a very negative view of our history. People say he's left wing because he looks at history through the lens of race and class but I don't buy that it makes someone left wing. You can disagree with the premises of his perspectives but he is still well worth the read.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds pretty similar to People's History of the US. Thanks.
 
M

Myansie

Member
Arksy said:
And Clive Palmer won in the seat of Fairfax and will apparently try to bring down the Newman government using parliamentary privilege.

I'll be frank, I disagree with Labor on a lot of fundamental issues. They believe government to be this big benign impartial arbiter of fairness and equality. I disagree wholeheartedly but I do respect their position.

What Newman is doing, speaking as a member of the same party, is downright dangerous. I attacked Labor's media laws as being dangerous, but this is a whole other ball game.

Get this, legitimate bike riders are being asked to log their rides with police so they don't get hassled on the roads by cops.

You get it? People are being asked to LODGE THEIR INNOCENT ACTIVITIES WITH THE POLICE, so they don't get HARASSED BY THE POLICE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE PULL THEM OVER WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE.

So Mr Palmer, as you may.....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure which is worse, what Newman is doing or a billionaire buying a seat (If you can afford the advertising you can afford a seat) and then using that seat to uproot an entire state government. Even if you disagree with the statement that he bought the seat, he's still only been voted in by one federal seat. Not an entire state as per Campbell Newman.

Big government isn't what people on the left want. Big government contradicts an egalitarian view point. It seems the left are pro government because the alternative conservative view in Australia is pro big business. The left's best weapon for countering that is the government. Australia is run by big corporations, the mining companies, Coles/Woolies, the banks, the list doesn't go on much further. The concentration of corporate ownership is getting scarily thin to the point where they are starting to function as monopolies. Corporations certainly have advantages of Governments, they have disadvantages as well. When a corporation monopolises a market that advantage over government is lost and your just lumped with their negatives, opaque levels of transparency and a rigid fascist style structure.

Ideally we would have lots of smaller companies working together.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Uh ohs. The WA senate result is in and the greens and the Sports party are back in, with Louis Pratt and the PUP guy back out. Interesting that the initial predicted result during the count is back on. Of course it is so heading to the Court of Disputed Returns and I imagine a re-election.

Someone is losing their job over this.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Myansie said:
I'm not sure which is worse, what Newman is doing or a billionaire buying a seat (If you can afford the advertising you can afford a seat) and then using that seat to uproot an entire state government. Even if you disagree with the statement that he bought the seat, he's still only been voted in by one federal seat. Not an entire state as per Campbell Newman.

Big government isn't what people on the left want. Big government contradicts an egalitarian view point. It seems the left are pro government because the alternative conservative view in Australia is pro big business. The left's best weapon for countering that is the government. Australia is run by big corporations, the mining companies, Coles/Woolies, the banks, the list doesn't go on much further. The concentration of corporate ownership is getting scarily thin to the point where they are starting to function as monopolies. Corporations certainly have advantages of Governments, they have disadvantages as well. When a corporation monopolises a market that advantage over government is lost and your just lumped with their negatives, opaque levels of transparency and a rigid fascist style structure.

Ideally we would have lots of smaller companies working together.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing Newman's mandate to govern, but if Palmer knows he's abused his position, or has acted in any way criminally, I think we deserve the right to know. That's what he's accusing Newman of here, corruption.

If there is no corruption, in the absence of citizens repeal and recall elections, or a Successful High Court challenge to the laws the people of Queensland are just going to have to suck it up until the next election, unfortunately.

I can understand his frustration with organised crime, but this is ludicrous.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Surely in the light of Kable and other more recent bikie cases these laws are going to be laughed out of the High Court? Or am I missing something?
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
bomma_man said:
Surely in the light of Kable and other more recent bikie cases these laws are going to be laughed out of the High Court? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Disturbingly there's actually a fair bit of support for them in Queensland among traditional LNP supporters. Being "Tough On Crime" is a very important thing politically even if it doesn't work and makes a mockery of the justice system. That's why Newmann was getting all bully pulpit-y with judges in the media last week.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Elaugaufein said:
Disturbingly there's actually a fair bit of support for them in Queensland among traditional LNP supporters. Being "Tough On Crime" is a very important thing politically even if it doesn't work and makes a mockery of the justice system. That's why Newmann was getting all bully pulpit-y with judges in the media last week.
Click to expand...

Justice Fryberg's judgement in that case was incredible.

He stayed the proceedings until such times as the premier withdrew his comments or some other factor changed.

Basically saying a huge fuck you to Newman.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Arksy said:
Justice Fryberg's judgement in that case was incredible.

He stayed the proceedings until such times as the premier withdrew his comments or some other factor changed.

Basically saying a huge fuck you to Newman.
Click to expand...

I didn't hear that part, only the first (temporary) stay so that the Prosecution could make arguments about whether or not that was what Newman said and whether that was the official position and if it would have a prejudicial impact.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
oh god i missed this

Tony Jones answered with ‘Satellite of Love’. Ray Martin offered ‘I’m Waiting for the Man’. Judith Sloan picked ‘Walk On The Wild Side’. And then, midway through a conversation about what it means for such a transgressional figure to become an international icon, Sloan pointed the finger at Christopher Pyne. “Christopher Pyne hadn’t even heard of him until tonight!”

Christopher Pyne was, as always, outraged. “No, that’s not true. I had heard of ‘Walk on the Wild Side’. But I’m a ‘70s child. Lou Reed wasn’t big in my era.”

Except, of course, he was.

“Yeah, well, I didn’t like him,” retorted a defensive Christopher Pyne. “I didn’t listen to him. He wasn’t playing where I was going.”

He did a lot of this kind of thing with his face.

And then it got worse.

“It’s such an ABC discussion to end with a discussion about “Lou Reed”,” he continued. His use of actual airquotes forced Wendy Harmer to retreat to her happy place.

“This, you know, “heroin addict” and “transgressional”. So ABC… Apparently if we don’t know who Lou Reed is and love his music as a heroin addict and transgressional whatever, apparently we’re not in the loop,” Pyne whined.

“What about Dvořák?” he demanded. “Or Tchaikovsky?” …WELL?

Here, Wendy Harmer jumped in, asking who Pyne did love in the ’70s. ”He looks like a bit of an ABBA man to me,” Joel Fitzgibbon teased — but Christopher Pyne bit the bait.

“ABBA dominated the ‘70s. ABBA dominated the ‘70s,” he emphasised, twice, for good measure. ”ABBA had more hits in Australia than any other country outside Sweden. There’s NOTHING wrong with ABBA. If you want people to dance at a wedding, play ABBA.”

He finished looking smug — and, with the rest of Australia, Wendy Harmer laughed uproariously.
Click to expand...

I like that everything is the fault of the ABC. What happened to personal responsibility?
 
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