Support NeoGAF

[NumberTwo]

Is what it is. I thought was a okay movie, don't think I would care to see it more than once though...

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Since when did the US changed its name to Worldwide?

Yep.

In fact, it doesn't even have the US record....yet.

Titanic still currently holds that one...<snicker>

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Yep.

In fact, it doesn't even have the US record....yet.

Titanic still currently holds that one...<snicker>

 

[MIMIC]

I'm a little lost here, so I want to recap how we got here. You made a broadside about "some people" equating the "highest grossing movie of all time" with "most popular movie of all time". I asked who, and you said, "I'm not talking about here on the Internet. People who I've spoken to."

Well, okay. Upon my pointing out that that doesn't make it a relevant point since no one here is making that mistake, you said these people may in fact be on the Internet, but are also in real life (but apparently not on GAF), as if that somehow makes your claim more relevant.

I guess where I'm going with this is when you make a bullshit strawman argument like you did, and upon getting called out on it resort to anecdotal experience with people you know (who may or may not have been on the internet but are clearly NOT on GAF), you've failed at making said argument.

You should make that argument with the bozos you know who said that, and probably not haul it into a conversation where no one is actually saying that.

aka, this. :lol

I didn't initially come right out and say it but I said it in my previous post: "Nonetheless, I get the very strong impression that even people here on this forum tend to scoff at those who bring up the 3D ticket price because it sheds light on how popular Avatar really is".

No one has SAID "Avatar is the most popular movie of all time" but it's definitely being insinuated. That insinuation is ANNOYING--people don't come right out and say it (because saying it would be a lie) but to tout the gross as the best thing ever and ignore the reasons behind it is really shady. Like I said before, gross and popularity usually went hand-in-hand; if a movie had a higher gross than another, it usually meant that not only did it make more money, but that it was also more popular. But now, that definitely isn't the case and many people want make the 3D factor irrelevant, despite how incredibly relevant it usually is.

-Avatar made most of it's money from 3D tickets
-So?

My point

The 3D ticket prices are mentioned in articles for a REASON. And that reason is perspective, which a lot of people want to ignore. It's VERY relevant to the discussion of Avatar's gross, IMO. My argument may have been seen as a strawman before because I wasn't saying how I truly felt about how I think people are analyzing Avatar's success.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The 3D ticket prices are mentioned in articles for a REASON. And that reason is perspective, which a lot of people want to ignore. It's VERY relevant to the discussion of Avatar's gross, IMO. My argument may have been seen as a strawman before because I wasn't saying how I truly felt about how I think people are analyzing Avatar's success.

Who?

 

[Thagomizer]

Those floating mountains also introduce a pretty big plothole-

Spoiler

if there is enough ore in those mountains to make them float hundreds of feet off the ground, why not just mine them? They aren't nearly as important to the Na'vi; just stay away from the dragons and whatever important stuff may be there, and it'll be all cool. Mine it until the raw mass of the ore can no longer support the mining equipment, and move to the next one.

 

[jett]

I didn't initially come right out and say it but I said it in my previous post: "Nonetheless, I get the very strong impression that even people here on this forum tend to scoff at those who bring up the 3D ticket price because it sheds light on how popular Avatar really is".

No one has SAID "Avatar is the most popular movie of all time" but it's definitely being insinuated. That insinuation is ANNOYING--people don't come right out and say it (because saying it would be a lie) but to tout the gross as the best thing ever and ignore the reasons behind it is really shady. Like I said before, gross and popularity usually went hand-in-hand; if a movie had a higher gross than another, it usually meant that not only did it make more money, but that it was also more popular. But now, that definitely isn't the case and many people want make the 3D factor irrelevant, despite how incredibly relevant it usually is.

-Avatar made most of it's money from 3D tickets
-So?

Case in point.

The 3D ticket prices are mentioned in articles for a REASON. And that reason is perspective, which a lot of people want to ignore. It's VERY relevant to the discussion of Avatar's gross, IMO. My argument may have been seen as a strawman before because I wasn't saying how I truly felt about how I think people are analyzing Avatar's success.

Didn't we already have this discussion in the Avatar RT thread? Domestically 80% of Avatar's gross comes from 3D screens. Worldwide it's 65%.

That means it has made 575.8 million dollars worldwide just from 2D showings. Let's estimate a generous 40 percent premium on 3D screens, and subtract that from the remaining 3D gross. We are left with 915 million dollars.

That means if we entirely throwaway the premium from 3D screens, we are left with a $1490.80 million in total, good enough for a second place that's 300 millions away from third place.

BUBUBU 3D PRICES seriously just shut it already.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Those floating mountains also introduce a pretty big plothole-

Spoiler

if there is enough ore in those mountains to make them float hundreds of feet off the ground, why not just mine them? They aren't nearly as important to the Na'vi; just stay away from the dragons and whatever important stuff may be there, and it'll be all cool. Mine it until the raw mass of the ore can no longer support the mining equipment, and move to the next one.

Spoiler

Because it's both exceptionally dangerous and difficult. Think about it for a minute, given the equipment you saw in the movie. The Field Guide also mentions they've tried this in the past with disastrous results.

 

[Garcia]

Ohhh the meltdowns ! *rubs hands*

Nice thread.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Those floating mountains also introduce a pretty big plothole-

Spoiler

if there is enough ore in those mountains to make them float hundreds of feet off the ground, why not just mine them? They aren't nearly as important to the Na'vi; just stay away from the dragons and whatever important stuff may be there, and it'll be all cool. Mine it until the raw mass of the ore can no longer support the mining equipment, and move to the next one.

Not a plot hole.

1) The bird thingies live there.

2) I imagine that mining on a surface that is prone to shifting balance the more you dig from it is just a teensy bit more dangerous than digging on solid ground.

 

[Sharp]

MIMIC and others who like admissions, when Avatar hits about $675 million it will have surpassed The Dark Knight's ticket sales. It is pretty much guaranteed to do this (and considerably surpass it) and become the biggest ticket seller of the decade. So it's not just 3D. Incidentally, The Dark Knight's gross was aided by higher-priced IMAX tickets. And Gone With The Wind's initial run was heavily bolstered by high-priced tickets for color (color was like 3D at the time). And that's just domestically. Worldwide, where Avatar is much more dominant on a ticket sales level, even Titanic had higher-priced tickets in some countries, which was justified because the movie was "longer." It's the sort of thing many a high-grossing movie has to deal with and I'm not sure why people feel that it would be more "legitimate" for Avatar or some other movie to break Titanic's record thanks to regular inflation and not 3D-enhanced inflation. If you're going by admissions it never had the domestic record anyway so this wouldn't be a relevant thread and nobody would be responding to it, but clearly money does matter at some level.

 

[MIMIC]

Who?

There are a bunch of people (and I don't want to start calling people out to start fights) but I'll use Dead as an example. One of his posts:

Its the equivalent to people whining about the 3D prices. They are both retarded arguements.

3D Avatar presents a Premium Experience, the movie was built from the ground up to be experienced as such. The premium price is warranted, due to the cost of equipping the theaters with the ability to show it.

He was saying that using the "13-year-old girl" argument to discredit Titanic's run is just as retarded as using the "3D ticket" to discredit (or whatever) Avatar's run. No serious article is going to say that Titanic must account for the "13-year-old girl inflation factor" while MOST serious sources are definitely going to reference Avatar's 3D ticket premiums.

Fake edit: oh yeah...and jett.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

if you subtract the people that saw this movie because their friends told them it was awesome, Avatar probably didn't even make its budget back.

 

[Count Dookkake]

MIMIC and others who like admissions, when Avatar hits about $675 million it will have surpassed The Dark Knight's ticket sales. It is pretty much guaranteed to do this (and considerably surpass it) and become the biggest ticket seller of the decade. So it's not just 3D. Incidentally, The Dark Knight's gross was aided by higher-priced IMAX tickets. And Gone With The Wind's initial run was heavily bolstered by high-priced tickets for color (color was like 3D at the time). And that's just domestically. Worldwide, where Avatar is much more dominant on a ticket sales level, even Titanic had higher-priced tickets in some countries, which was justified because the movie was "longer." It's the sort of thing many a high-grossing movie has to deal with and I'm not sure why people feel that it would be more "legitimate" for Avatar or some other movie to break Titanic's record thanks to regular inflation and not 3D-enhanced inflation. If you're going by admissions it never had the domestic record anyway so this wouldn't be a relevant thread and nobody would be responding to it, but clearly money does matter at some level.

TDK fans can comfort themselves with this fact: TDK is the biggest movie ever based on a pre-existing children's property.

 

[Thagomizer]

Not a plot hole.

1) The bird thingies live there.

2) I imagine that mining on a surface that is prone to shifting balance the more you dig from it is just a teensy bit more dangerous than digging on solid ground.

Why not just blow them to kingdom come with the massive airship and collect the pieces?

 

[Sharp]

TDK fans can comfort themselves with this fact: TDK is the biggest movie ever based on a pre-existing children's property.

Not even close, Snow White sold nearly 110 million tickets, compared to TDK's 74 million or so (really about 71 million if you factor in IMAX, which I'm obviously doing since people are more than happy to factor in 3D and IMAX for Avatar).

 

[Count Dookkake]

Why not just blow them to kingdom come with the massive airship and collect the pieces?

Explosions, plus weaker gravity, plus floating rocks...

Hmm.

Not even close, Snow White sold nearly 110 million tickets, compared to TDK's 74 million or so (really about 71 million if you factor in IMAX, which I'm obviously doing since people are more than happy to factor in 3D and IMAX for Avatar).

Drat.

How about "biggest movie based on a previously existing children's property that redefined the action movie and featured a dead actor"?

 

[Dead]

There are a bunch of people (and I don't want to start calling people out to start fights) but I'll use Dead as an example. One of his posts:



He was saying that using the "13-year-old girl" argument to discredit Titanic's run is just as retarded as using the "3D ticket" to discredit (or whatever) Avatar's run. No serious article is going to say that Titanic must account for the "13-year-old girl inflation factor" while MOST serious sources are definitely going to reference Avatar's 3D ticket premiums.

Fake edit: oh yeah...and jett.

My post was in relation to people discrediting the movie due to the 3D prices. For example, saying it should have an asterisk next to it in the record books. Ridiculous.

There is no debate that 3D plays a part in its gross, however the movie has earned every single one of those dollars due to the experience it provides. They aren't just tacked on for no reason. People are willing to pay that price, and several times at that.

 

[evil ways]

Excellent, aside from it being a pretty good movie, I'm also thankful that the top grossing film isn't something like Twilight or Transformers 2.

Well done Mr. Cameron.

 

[Sharp]

Explosions, plus weaker gravity, plus floating rocks...

Hmm.



Drat.

How about "biggest movie based on a previously existing children's property that redefined the action movie and featured a dead actor"?

I think it's got that in the bag.

 

[jett]

There are a bunch of people (and I don't want to start calling people out to start fights) but I'll use Dead as an example. One of his posts:



He was saying that using the "13-year-old girl" argument to discredit Titanic's run is just as retarded as using the "3D ticket" to discredit (or whatever) Avatar's run. No serious article is going to say that Titanic must account for the "13-year-old girl inflation factor" while MOST serious sources are definitely going to reference Avatar's 3D ticket premiums.

Fake edit: oh yeah...and jett.

jett what motherfucker

I just showed with percentages and numbers available to us that without the 3D pricehike Avatar's gross amounts to buttloads of money still, yet yo keep repeating the same crap. It's not that I am ignoring the 3D aspect, it's that I'm tired of the "it only made that money because of the price of 3D tickets" argument. It's facetious. It has made this much money because it is 3D, period. Because almost everyone wants to see it in 3D, because people don't care about the premium price. They've embraced 3D. I believe if Avatar was just a 2D experience it wouldn't have made anywhere near the number I estimated in my previous post.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Edit: 500 error double post. :\

 

[GhaleonEB]

There are a bunch of people (and I don't want to start calling people out to start fights) but I'll use Dead as an example. One of his posts:

He was saying that using the "13-year-old girl" argument to discredit Titanic's run is just as retarded as using the "3D ticket" to discredit (or whatever) Avatar's run. No serious article is going to say that Titanic must account for the "13-year-old girl inflation factor" while MOST serious sources are definitely going to reference Avatar's 3D ticket premiums.

Fake edit: oh yeah...and jett.

Well, he's right. He's saying just as you wouldn't dock Titanic of some arbitrary portion of its earnings for the basis of comparison, it likewise doesn't make any sense to do so for Avatar. This does not mean the 3D ticket prices shouldn't be pointed out: they're a huge part of the Avatar success story and should always be mentioned when talking about Avatar. But that really doesn't come near justifying adjusting its earnings for the sake of comparison to other movies, or to expose it's true popularity or whatever.

I'm going to bring up again what I said in the box office thread:

Titanic made $5m in Russia during its run. Avatar has made Over $96m in Russia through last weekend. That's not because Titanic wasn't popular, it's because the theaters Avatar is packing right now didn't exist in 1997 and 1998: the international market is much, much larger than it was 12 years ago.

So should we dock Avatar those dollars for the basis of comparison to Titanic because it could access those markets when Titanic (and Gone with the Wind) couldn't? Doing so would make exactly the same amount of sense as deducting the 3D and IMAX premiums from Avatar for the same purpose.

 

[Koodo]

I didn't initially come right out and say it but I said it in my previous post: "Nonetheless, I get the very strong impression that even people here on this forum tend to scoff at those who bring up the 3D ticket price because it sheds light on how popular Avatar really is".

No one has SAID "Avatar is the most popular movie of all time" but it's definitely being insinuated. That insinuation is ANNOYING--people don't come right out and say it (because saying it would be a lie) but to tout the gross as the best thing ever and ignore the reasons behind it is really shady. Like I said before, gross and popularity usually went hand-in-hand; if a movie had a higher gross than another, it usually meant that not only did it make more money, but that it was also more popular. But now, that definitely isn't the case and many people want make the 3D factor irrelevant, despite how incredibly relevant it usually is.

-Avatar made most of it's money from 3D tickets
-So?

My point

The 3D ticket prices are mentioned in articles for a REASON. And that reason is perspective, which a lot of people want to ignore. It's VERY relevant to the discussion of Avatar's gross, IMO. My argument may have been seen as a strawman before because I wasn't saying how I truly felt about how I think people are analyzing Avatar's success.

And you're totally right, the 3D surcharges are very relevant. What's hilariously wrong are those that use it as a means to belittle the film's popularity or, most importantly, its appeal. Yes, the extra dollars have contributed an extra gross that is well into the hundreds of millions. However, this is more of an achievement than a cheat. Avatar has attracted an audience not seen since Titanic despite tickets being 30% higher than usual. More impressive is its astounding IMAX run, which just keeps growing, despite having on average the most expensive tickets around.

This is simple economics (and very simple, at that). Higher prices drive down demand. Avatar had to provide a higher incentive than a normal film would to attract this much of an audience (and consequently will benefit more than the normal film would).

Its success and popularity are more undeniable when looking at its worldwide run. Unadjusted, adjusted, even taking into considerations surcharges, Avatar has generated global interest on a league several times larger than anything in the past 13 years (and it might just eclipse Titanic unadjusted, which if it does, it means you'll have to go way back in history to find a movie with this much global impact).

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I still don't really understand how it happened or what the universal appeal is, but whatever. Could've happened to a lot worse movies. Coulda happened to other better ones.

 

[Thagomizer]

Explosions, plus weaker gravity, plus floating rocks...

Hmm.



Drat.

How about "biggest movie based on a previously existing children's property that redefined the action movie and featured a dead actor"?

Timed explosives + some kind of massive net. Considering that a few kilograms of the stuff is apparently worth the GDP of a third world country, they would still make a massive profit even if the recovery rate is vanishingly small. Plus, mining explosives are designed to generate a massive concussive and break things apart, not to create shrapnel. All they'd need to do is drill some holes, place explosives, get behind something, blow off a chunk, and collect the results.

And it's not like the gravity is that much lower.
(I'm spending way too much time on this...)

 

[Evlar]

Precisely. The argument is "Hah! TDK was burdened by the standard ticket prices the market has already adapted to, while Avatar was given a free ride by charging 30% more than standard price in the middle of a recession. Two tickets cost nearly as much as Blu Ray! I mean, look at the long list of other top-twenty films featuring 3D!"

Avatar's ability to pull audiences into the more expensive seats in enough quantities to bust the box office record is its most impressive feat.

 

[Kafarabo]

i wonder if avatar will surpass titanic as the best movie of all time though

 

[GhaleonEB]

Timed explosives + some kind of massive net.

How big of a net are we talking here?

 

[jett]

I still don't really understand how it happened

No one really does. At least Titanic had a scapegoat. And I doubt this could have happened to anything else. Cameron seemingly has a way in creating and constructing a story that has massive, massive worldwide resonance. It's really unbelievable.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I'm all for loving TDK, but seriously, anyone pushing excuses for Avatar making more money need to quit being sore losers. Just take the fact that TDK's still a better film and walk on.

 

[Thagomizer]

How big of a net are we talking here?

Do you think mines kilometers of miles long were blasted at once? You place explosives at one section, blow a bit off, collect it, repeat ad nauesum.

 

[jett]

i wonder if avatar will surpass titanic as the best movie of all time though

When Avatar wins like 20 oscars, including documentary(it's so real!), foreign language(na'vi, bitches) and animation(i don't think i need to explain this one) then we'll have confirmation!

Spoiler

If you took this post seriously, just end yourself.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Do you think mines kilometers of miles long were blasted at once? You place explosives at one section, blow a bit off, collect it, repeat ad nauesum.

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation. :lol

Let's see. Massive, unstable floating mountains containing ore hundreds and thousands of feet up in the air. An energy field that disrupts communications and scanning equipment. A native population that is extremely hostile to your presence. And hundreds (probably thousands) of really big dragons that hunt from the air roosting at that level.

What could possibly go wrong?

Anyways.

What's remarkable about Avatar's run isn't so much that's just passed Titanic (though that is quite stunning). It's that Avatar is nowhere near done; it's still making $20m a day, world-wide, on a week day, and $200m a week over all. It's heading for $2.5b territory pretty quick.

 

[Kagari]

Terrible.
Titanic is definitely the better movie. And it's based on real history, not some fictional, generic blue alien inhabited planet with a cliche plot.

Just proves that people like gimmicks such as 3D... which means hollywood is going to be making a lot of terrible 3D movies. Thanks Jim!

 

[jett]

You should watch Avatar some time, Kagari. Even Phoenix Dark is going to, maybe he already has.

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation. :lol

Let's see. Massive, unstable floating mountains containing ore hundreds and thousands of feet up in the air. An energy field that disrupts communications and scanning equipment. A native population that is extremely hostile to your presence. And hundreds (probably thousands) of really big dragons that hunt from the air roosting at that level.

What could possibly go wrong?

Anyways.

What's remarkable about Avatar's run isn't so much that's just passed Titanic (though that is quite stunning). It's that Avatar is nowhere near done; it's still making $20m a day, world-wide, on a week day, and $200m a week over all. It's heading for $2.5b territory pretty quick.

It'll easily reach 2 billion by the week's end.

2 billion.





2 billion. And worldwide grosses aren't slowing down at all. If it wasn't for Alice In Wonderland I really wouldn't be able to say when is the madness going to stop.

 

[Gary Whitta]

You won't have to wait for Alice; Feb 12 is the weekend it will finally go down. Either Wolfman, Percy Jackson or Valentine's Day will do it. That's my guess anyway. Avatar could actually get knocked down to #3 or even #4 (unlikely).

Of course Eli already took it down, if only for one day ;-)

 

[Kagari]

I already watched Avatar
It really wasn't all that good compared to some of the other movies that came out last year, just saying.

 

[Darko]

Terrible.
Titanic is definitely the better movie. And it's based on real history, not some fictional, generic blue alien inhabited planet with a cliche plot.

Just proves that people like gimmicks such as 3D... which means hollywood is going to be making a lot of terrible 3D movies. Thanks Jim!

wat

 

[Kagari]

wat

You heard it.

 

[NumberTwo]

I already watched Avatar
It really wasn't all that good compared to some of the other movies that came out last year, just saying.

Trust me, you're not alone.

 

[jett]

I already watched Avatar
It really wasn't all that good compared to some of the other movies that came out last year, just saying.

Your loss Kagari.

You won't have to wait for Alice; Feb 12 is the weekend it will finally go down. Either Wolfman, Percy Jackson or Valentine's Day will do it. That's my guess anyway. Avatar could actually get knocked down to #3 or even #4 (unlikely).

Of course Eli already took it down, if only for one day ;-)

It will stop being #1 at the weekend, but the crazytrain will go on.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Feb 12 is the weekend it will finally go down. Either Wolfman, Percy Jackson or Valentine's Day will do it. That's my guess anyway. Avatar could actually get knocked down to #3 or even #4 (unlikely).

Of course Eli already took it down, if only for one day ;-)

So did Chipmunks 2 and Sherlock Holmes - also for one day each.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Its whether Cameron wants to do it or not. He has a green light to do whatever the fuck he wants.

ill watch any movie Cameron makes as long as it doesn't have furry stuff in it!

Wasn't Lacey Chabert supposed to be in alita?

 

[Gary Whitta]

So did Chipmunks 2 and Sherlock Holmes - also for one day each.

Pretty elite club to be a member of! ;-) I'll always be proud of the great achievement I share with Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakuel.

 

[Krev]

Terrible.
Titanic is definitely the better movie. And it's based on real history, not some fictional, generic blue alien inhabited planet with a cliche plot.

Why is a story being based on 'real history' better than it being concocted from someone's imagination?

 

[Thagomizer]

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation. :lol

Let's see. Massive, unstable floating mountains containing ore hundreds and thousands of feet up in the air. An energy field that disrupts communications and scanning equipment. A native population that is extremely hostile to your presence. And hundreds (probably thousands) of really big dragons that hunt from the air roosting at that level.

What could possibly go wrong?

Anyways.

What's remarkable about Avatar's run isn't so much that's just passed Titanic (though that is quite stunning). It's that Avatar is nowhere near done; it's still making $20m a day, world-wide, on a week day, and $200m a week over all. It's heading for $2.5b territory pretty quick.

Everything is hostile on the planet, everywhere. The first 45 minutes of the movie were spent on this. Mining anywhere is dangerous, between space panthers, giant hammerhead rhinoceri, and everything else. And it's not like the dragons can hurt the big airship.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Pretty elite club to be a member of! ;-)

I see what you did thar. (Unintentionally.)

And yeah, Eli doing what it's doing while Avatar is gobbling up so much business is quite an accomplishment.

Everything is hostile on the planet, everywhere. The first 45 minutes of the movie were spent on this. Mining anywhere is dangerous, between space panthers, giant hammerhead rhinoceri, and everything else. And it's not like the dragons can hurt the big airship.

:lol

 

[Kagari]

Why is a story being based on 'real history' better than it being concocted from someone's imagination?

The basic story in Avatar has already been done to death. Not very imaginative.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Anyone think Edge of Darkness has a shot at it this weekend? The tracking I've seen is all over the place, everything from 15 on the low end to high 20s.