This. The class system was the only one that made it a bit strange, but if you can do it through skills is basically the same thing.
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ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
They probably included more gender preferences than racial categories. It ensures more likes with less effort.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
It is basically an indie game at this point. Reviews won't be polite for sure as it is not something people expected from Obsidian.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
You know what game this sounds like now.
But then I remember this had a class system and technically let you choose between two women...
But then I remember this had a class system and technically let you choose between two women...
ByWatterson
Member
Game gets smaller and smaller every time we hear about it.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Obsidian doesn't like doing romance in their games. They've been very outspoken about this in the past. People forget it's Obsidian were talking about here not Bioware.
Buggy Loop
Member
2 out of 6 (?) races from Pillars of Eternity.
It’s a cull back but I bet their stats show that most peoples picked those races and left the others in the dust. At one point it becomes tough to make all dialogues paths and variety for all these choices.
Well outside of BG3 which peoples in the business are still scratching their head how it happened.
It’s a cull back but I bet their stats show that most peoples picked those races and left the others in the dust. At one point it becomes tough to make all dialogues paths and variety for all these choices.
Well outside of BG3 which peoples in the business are still scratching their head how it happened.
tmlDan
Member
You know you're on an enthusiast gaming forum, right?
it’s written somewhere in the Bible that all deep RPGs must have romance?
How is it a ‘feature removal’ when it’s the very first game in the franchise?
Obsidian first wanted to make something in the vein of Skyrim. Then they pivoted early in development to a smaller, tighter focus and communicated this to the public well before release.
Not sure how anyone sane is labeling this as an ‘issue’. They’ve made a development choice.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Wow, just go third party already. Am I right or am I right guys....
Dictattor
Member
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StereoVsn
Member
And folks in general aren’t too happy about that choice. Outer Worlds was very “mid””. It just wasn’t a particularly interesting game and their writing and way of quest completion wasn’t great.it’s written somewhere in the Bible that all deep RPGs must have romance?
How is it a ‘feature removal’ when it’s the very first game in the franchise?
Obsidian first wanted to make something in the vein of Skyrim. Then they pivoted early in development to a smaller, tighter focus and communicated this to the public well before release.
Not sure how anyone sane is labeling this as an ‘issue’. They’ve made a development choice.
So folks were hoping return to more New Vegas vs Outer Worlds. And that’s apparently unlikely to happen.
John Bilbo
Member
Less races = less racism
Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
Karen's of the gaming world unite.
If I had a magic genie lamp my 3 wishes would be
1)bring back Steve Irwin
2)country music is illegal
3)send a giant meteor in to the living rooms of these xbox concern trolls
If I had a magic genie lamp my 3 wishes would be
1)bring back Steve Irwin
2)country music is illegal
3)send a giant meteor in to the living rooms of these xbox concern trolls
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StereoVsn
Member
Ahh
Do you think Avowed will impact GamePass or Xbox sales?
If they stuck with larger game, it could have been much better received. Understandingly it probably wasn’t their call to cut the budget.
Ahh yes, like nobody was claiming Starfield was going to be Xbox savior or people were not rattling off Hellblade 2, Avowed and so on will bump up the console this year.Ah. Puts your previous post in better context
Do you think Avowed will impact GamePass or Xbox sales?
If they stuck with larger game, it could have been much better received. Understandingly it probably wasn’t their call to cut the budget.
NonPhixion
Member
Game peaked in 2020 with its teaser reveal.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Wow, another 'nice-to-not-have'!
Won't surprise me if the final game will resemble more something like Immortals of Aveum than The Outer Worlds.
Won't surprise me if the final game will resemble more something like Immortals of Aveum than The Outer Worlds.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
This is probably the biggest budget game Obsidian has ever made.
Their biggest games previously are basically complex campaign mods built on Bioware and Bethesda engines and combat systems they didn't design. People seemingly have no concept of the fact that they're a AA developer. This is their best looking game graphically.
StereoVsn
Member
I don’t think graphics are necessarily the issue here, although they could tone down lighting a bit. It’s more the scope of the game.
Laptop1991
Member
With each media news release or PR trailer, this game gets less and less appealing to me, i suppose they'll be mentioning New Vegas again very soon, which so far i'm not seeing the slightest comparison to or to Skyrim either really, what's next you can only choose 1 sword or 1 Shield!.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Scope seems similar to Outer Worlds which is the only other game they designed 100% from the ground up at this scale. And this looks better than that game so far.
I'm just saying, people saw that 1st trailer for Avowed and really have no idea what Obsidian makes or what the scale of their games is.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
They've already told that the budgets and the scope are the same even with MS at the helm.
That being said, even for a modest RPG, Avowed sounds tiny and very constrained.
Not sure what this has to do with Starfield aside from the usual console war fodder, but nobody’s been pitching Avowed as some sort of ‘savior’ for Xbox this year
I think great quality AAA exclusives positively impact console sales and subscriber count. It remains to be seen if Obsidian sticks the landing for Avowed
I see you’re probably the one person who gets a hard on whenever Ubisoft announces their latest AC game is 2x the size of the previous one
There’s absolutely nothing to indicate a budget cut. And if you’re going to make a comment about ‘reception’, it’s best you show the review scores you’re looking at from the future.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Slightly sidebar question: do you consider Avowed a AA or AAA game?
(I'm genuinely curious as I've seen a debate on Reddit about this).
SmurfMustard
Member
Where were you when Mass Effect didn't let you choose your race?
Where were you when Demon's Souls didn't let you choose your race?
Where were you when the Witcher forced you to play as Gerald?
Where were you???
Your silence in the past forced us to play as a boring human.
Where were you when Demon's Souls didn't let you choose your race?
Where were you when the Witcher forced you to play as Gerald?
Where were you???
Your silence in the past forced us to play as a boring human.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
We're reaching Starfield Derangement Syndrome level 2.0 here, folks. 
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I've seen text claiming it's AAA, but me personally no way I would say that. Looks like the top end of AA. NPC lip sync looks all automated and they're not overly flashy on animations in general. From the start I've always said I'm just hoping the story is good since that's the main thing they do. The graphics on the environments have exceeded my expectations already, as I had low expectations. The last 2 games in this series were made on Kickstarter.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
It’s an Xbox game. Comes with the territory these days.We're reaching Starfield Derangement Syndrome level 2.0 here, folks.
When was this ever said?
Nothing about what they’ve said gives this impression.
The game has been in the works since 2018, and is much more fully realized than something like Outer Worlds that was banged together in 2.5 years.
It’s definitely AAA in budget, and it’s weird seeing game enthusiasts use alpha visuals as a basis to determine if a game is AAA or not.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
"What the relationship with Microsoft has allowed us to do is not drastically change the kinds of games we're making, but just allow us to make the kinds of games that we love making, and know how to make, with a bit more stability and predictability behind us."
- From recent EG interview
killatopak
Gold Member
Because he admitted it was a development decision in the same article. Citing differences and difficulties between isometric and fps game development.
It’s pretty obvious a lot was cut back to make this game come out on time. Even in their anniversary video, they mention getting publisher greenlight because they pitched multiplayer feature. This coincides with the reboot rumors that supposedly happened in 2020 along with the change of directors. This game was in development since 2018.
To provide some help, AAA vs AA is really about the budget, not necessarily about the visual quality.
Developer salaries make up the bulk of a game’s development cost. 100+ devs on a project since 2018 will add up…
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
It's interesting because I have never seen people so much divided about the status of a game (AA or AAA) in recent times. These definitions have always been relatively clear, especially for 1st party games.
But Avowed seems to be an exception that is dividing people in this regard. Like you and O Ozriel are both Xbox fans. You think it's a AA game. O Ozriel thinks it's a AAA game. It's quite interesting, and I can't put a finger on why there is confusion.
I think the litmus test will be its price. If they sell Avowed for $70, it may be that Obsidian and Xbox see it as a AAA title. Or AA, if they sell it for less than $70.
If nothing, I do expect the story to be good at least. Obsidian has always made good stories. TOW didn't hit the mark completely, but I am sure they'd have taken the feedback to improve the areas that didn't land perfectly in TOW.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
More importantly, where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Rohan will still answer.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I don't think Redfall was AAA either, and I honestly don't think Arkane has ever made a AAA game. That was $70 too. It had still image cutscenes and the character models could be from an indie game.
I get there's some gray area. I don't care if people feel a bit differently. That's just the vibe I get from not just this game, but the entire history of Obsidian. To me, they are the epitome of the struggling AA developer that really benefits from a buyout. Double Fine is the same.
I like AA games. This is what attracted me to current Xbox line-up.
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I don’t imagine there’s any successful AAA game that’s come out in the past decade that hasn’t left something out on the cutting floor during development.
Sometimes I truly wonder whether it’s the same language we’re speaking. Because I’m not sure where that says budgets haven’t changed post acquisition. He’s making an RPG and is saying MS hasn’t forced them into making a looter shooter
Obsidian had to work like madmen to put out Outer Worlds in 2.5 years just to stay afloat. And you’re out here arguing that they were always going to spend over half a decade making Avowed.
After ‘E3’ last year, Obsidian revealed that Avowed is having the longest Alpha period of any game they’ve ever done. That’s what more resources helps you achieve.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
You weren’t around for Outriders? That was a big part of the discourse at the time of release.
Largely because people focus on visuals only as the sole indicator, while budget is truly the differentiator.
There’s not much ambiguity in that text, but OK
The devs themselves tell you they pivoted from making a Skyrim-like to something smaller and denser.
Not sure why you’re announcing this as something hidden
SmurfMustard
Member
You clearly gave some fantasy interpretation of what you read. It's a fair question to ask if it's a language barrier problem.
This is where they’re saying they focused most of their efforts in. That, and combat flexibility.
We’ll know when reviews roll around. But they’ve got more than double the time they had to do Outer Worlds, so there’s probably room for some cautious optimism
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
In terms of quality and cut corners, I'm on the same page: Redfall wasn't a true AAA game.
But I'm confident that Arkane and Xbox saw it differently. It was the first-ever Xbox game that was sold at $70; that's huge. Considering that Xbox internal reviews were projecting a Metacritic score of around 80, I'm pretty sure they really saw Redfall as a full-fledged AAA game.
Yeah, DF is definitely a AA developer (at least, as of now). And one of those devs about which no one ever had any confusion.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It would be good to label what stuff this game does have that others don't....I dunno lol
killatopak
Gold Member
I don’t doubt that but it is a reason for some people to be disappointed. Just like we Bethesda fans got mad about the removal of spell crafting, various schools of magic, weapon types and the dumbing down of multitude of rpg systems since like Daggerfall. Like where’s my banks, carts, other temples aside from imperial ones, ships, reputation systems, language skills, community service and other crime systems. The lists are endless.
Is it enough for people to turn away from the game? Bethesda, at least pre FO4, had an answer for that. Make a game good enough for people who had complaints to ignore those complaints.
Obsidian HAS to knock it out of the park to shut up complainers.
50% smaller without romance!!
Is there really a hard distinction, though? Housemarque went from AA shooters to Returnal, an AAA game. The previous Helldivers game was solidly AA. Ready at Dawn went from making PSP titles to one of the most visually astounding AAA games on PS4.