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[BigLee74]

Yes, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of people playing it on Netflix Gamepass.

I remember MS announcing a good while back that 4 million people had played Indy - with its Steam high of 12,000 CCU.

In Indy's case, it's quite safe to assume that a lot more people played the game on Gamepass than bought it on a PC.

It's not a reach to suggest that applies to most games that release on Gamepass/PC simultaneously.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I remember MS announcing a good while back that 4 million people had played Indy - with its Steam high of 12,000 CCU.

4 million players could mean dropping the game in the first hour. Would be great if the platform offered some transparent numbers for people to check out instead of relying on MS own reports.

It's not a reach to suggest that applies to most games that release on Gamepass/PC simultaneously.

It kinda is imo, specially considering Indiana Jones is a beloved IP by many while Avowed isn't (unless you are a big fan of PoE)

 

[Topher]

I answered the very specific question about people not playing it on GP. It's only behind the juggernauts that are CoD and Minecraft, it's ahead of other very popular games like R6 Siege, so in this window, a lot of people are in-fact playing the game on GP.

Which makes all the sense.

Which chart are you looking at? UK? Different results in the US.

 

[Seiryu21]

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

I have to ask where did the sales don't matter statement come from?

I just need context is all

 

[Alebrije]

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

Sales dont matter when the product is you.

 

[Humdinger]

That's why I am wondering how do games like Avowed come into this picture. It won't sell particularly well. Day 1 PS5 release would help some but the game is fairly generic so won't stand out that much.

It's a GamePass targeted title but the cost is of AAA game. Which is why I am wondering what are internal MS metrics. There got to be some reason MS is green lighting these titles. Obsidian even got Outer Worlds 2 coming out soon which should be simulations in scope and sales.

Yeah, it would be interesting to know how MS gauges whether these games are "successful" or not. Clearly part of that calculus - a big part - will be sales of the game. The other part must be an assessment of how well it attracts new players to GP or at least retains them. Gauging the first would be easy enough (do GP subs increase after release of the game), but how do you gauge the second? By hours played, perhaps - assuming that hours played correlates to user retention (which isn't necessarily true).

Then you balance all of that against the costs of development and marketing, plus the costs of maintaining GP, and you decide whether the game was successful (profitable) or not. I assume they have some algorithm to weigh all the different factors, but who knows what it is.

 

[adamsapple]

Which chart are you looking at? UK? Different results in the US.

The console app.

edit: pic

 

[Seiryu21]

I have to ask where did the sales don't matter statement come from?

I just need context is all

Sorry below is what I was referring to.

Gane Pass *is* their focus and business now.

It makes zero sense to gauge success by sales, when millions of people are playing on game pass.

I've seen this point come up in other places on the internet and I just struggle to understand it.

 

[damidu]

Most of the people on this forum seem to be playing via game pass

most of the people on this forum are not playing it, thats the issue.
you have your resident xbox diehards, (which also seem to spend more time defending it with their lives rather than playing it tbh)
nobody is signing up to gamepass to play this, get real

 

[Humdinger]

I've seen this point come up in other places on the internet and I just struggle to understand it.

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

It's an absurd statement. Anyone who claims sales of a game don't matter to the publisher and developers is just trying to cope with disappointing sales numbers.

 

[yazenov]

Guys if Gamepass was the Netflix of gaming then why don't MS release exclusive content on Gamepass instead of releasing it day one on steam as well, and soon to be PS5 and Switch 2?

I mean, if MS truly believed in Gamepass, they would go all in on it to drive subscribers growth and force people to subscribe to it since they cant play games anywhere else. Right?

Wrong. MS isn't stupid

MS needs game sales to pay the bills since Gamepass is not sustainable, no matter if "millions" of people played the game on Gamepass.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sorry below is what I was referring to.

Ahh ok I have just seen some post that "sales don't matter" statement and thought it actually came from somewhere substantial as in not originating on forums like this, thanks

 

[Topher]

The console app.

edit: pic

Gotcha. I'm guessing the app is updated more frequently than the web page, which is only updated every Monday.

 

[mayham2199]

unless the gameplay is truly incredible.

That's really the most important thing and why it's to soon to say how well it will do. If the gameplay is incredible nothing else will matter. Unless the main story is about you fighting your way to your transition surgery

 

[Idleyes]

Unless the main story is about you fighting your way to your transition surgery

With how this God is talking in my head, that doesn't sound far fetched. Transitioning to a plant maybe?

 

[sendit]

Gamepass is like pond in a tiny garden . It doesn't mean much if its the biggest fish in that pond.

Steam and PS5 are where the whales are living.

Playing on Steam means you paid 69.99 for this mid tier title versus a month of Gamepass.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Guys if Gamepass was the Netflix of gaming then why don't MS release exclusive content on Gamepass instead of releasing it day one on steam as well, and soon to be PS5 and Switch 2?

I mean, if MS truly believed in Gamepass, they would go all in on it to drive subscribers growth and force people to subscribe to it since they cant play games anywhere else. Right?

Wrong. MS isn't stupid

MS needs game sales to pay the bills since Gamepass is not sustainable, no matter if "millions" of people played the game on Gamepass.

Its a completely different dynamic in video streaming. The closest we got to hardware wars was VHS/Beta and HD DVD/Blu-ray. You also didn't have people championing exclusive movies and TV shows etc...

I just don't see how you even make a sensible comparison.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

most of the people on this forum are not playing it, thats the issue.
you have your resident xbox diehards, (which also seem to spend more time defending it with their lives rather than playing it tbh)
nobody is signing up to gamepass to play this, get real

I did. Granted I wanted to play Indiana too, but wasn't able to. But I don't plan to keep GamePass long term though.

And I am the farthest thing from an "Xbox Diehard".

 

[Buggy Loop]

Yeah, it would be interesting to know how MS gauges whether these games are "successful" or not. Clearly part of that calculus - a big part - will be sales of the game. The other part must be an assessment of how well it attracts new players to GP or at least retains them. Gauging the first would be easy enough (do GP subs increase after release of the game), but how do you gauge the second? By hours played, perhaps - assuming that hours played correlates to user retention (which isn't necessarily true).

Then you balance all of that against the costs of development and marketing, plus the costs of maintaining GP, and you decide whether the game was successful (profitable) or not. I assume they have some algorithm to weigh all the different factors, but who knows what it is.

In the end, that's their calculation and up to them to determine if they continue or not gamepass. I ain't shedding tears that $3T Microsoft might be picking a few dollars in their sofa to make a service existing and a lot of peoples in Avowed OT discovered the game and enjoyed it JUST because they gave it a go on gamepass. The game for sure with peoples using the early release extra $ + Steam CCU + battle.net + Gamepass PC + gamepass Xbox + Xbox sales means they probably already have a bigger success than both PoE combined. Peoples have to remember that Obsidian had 1 success and it was attached to Fallout franchise. Grounded was a success with >15M players touching it but again, nothing to write home about in CCUs

Its like their office suite being almost given for free or cloud for free etc. Make it make sense business wise when they decided to do that years ago? Peoples were saying to sell stock because they'll sink. Yet here we are with one of the biggest company in the world.

When its cheap/free is that you're the product. It might not be obvious how but in the end, but it means they get more out of you using the service than just a monthly fee.

This forum also had all the peoples worrying about Sony games on PC with low CCUs. I've been saying multiple times its meaningless.

Even pre Helldivers 2

From 2020 → 2023, Sony's went from $35M → $80M → $250M → $450M

With CCUs that aren't setting the world on fire, not Wukong, not Palworld, not KCD 2, not BG3 equivalent.

 

[Topher]

you have your resident xbox diehards, (which also seem to spend more time defending it with their lives rather than playing it tbh)

I'm no Xbox diehard, but talking about the games I'm playing is part of the overall experience in being on this forum. That includes discussions on reviews, sales, reception, etc. So what? That's typical. But if we are going to go down that road then what makes more sense? Spending all that time "defending" a game I'm playing or someone spending all that time attacking a game they are not playing.

 

[yazenov]

Playing on Steam means you paid 69.99 for this mid tier title versus a month of Gamepass.

I dont even think many people would subscribe to Gamepass to play Avowed. I doubt it moved the needle in terms of subscriber growth or even retention.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I dont even think many people would subscribe to Gamepass to play Avowed. I doubt it moved the needle in terms of subscriber growth or even retention.

Call of Duty didn't move Gamepass numbers, that means literally nothing will lol

 

[sendit]

I dont even think many people would subscribe to Gamepass to play Avowed. I doubt it moved the needle in terms of subscriber growth or even retention.

Reactivated Gamepass for a month. adamsapple was hyping this to be GOTY so I couldn't possibly miss it.

 

[adamsapple]

Reactivated Gamepass for a month. adamsapple was hyping this to be GOTY so I couldn't possibly miss it.

I don't recall doing that outside of one of the reviews maybe calling it an early RPG of the year contender, but it is a damn good RPG.

Have fun

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah, it would be interesting to know how MS gauges whether these games are "successful" or not. Clearly part of that calculus - a big part - will be sales of the game. The other part must be an assessment of how well it attracts new players to GP or at least retains them. Gauging the first would be easy enough (do GP subs increase after release of the game), but how do you gauge the second? By hours played, perhaps - assuming that hours played correlates to user retention (which isn't necessarily true).

Then you balance all of that against the costs of development and marketing, plus the costs of maintaining GP, and you decide whether the game was successful (profitable) or not. I assume they have some algorithm to weigh all the different factors, but who knows what it is.

Yeah, this is what I would love to see, the actual details around that determination.

Now days you are spending $150mil+ even for a mid level title, if developed in the West. just due to sheer labor cost, time involved and marketing. How does that get evaluated as a failure or success in Microsoft's eyes. And especially so when sales are not going to be strong due to Day 1 on GamePass.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Yeah, this is what I would love to see, the actual details around that determination.

Now days you are spending $150mil+ even for a mid level title, if developed in the West. just due to sheer labor cost, time involved and marketing. How does that get evaluated as a failure or success in Microsoft's eyes. And especially so when sales are not going to be strong due to Day 1 on GamePass.

Sadly, seems like when something like KCD II can be made for 40 million elsewhere, means it's time to pretty much close up shop over here until the environment is more competitive - honestly they could save a ton just moving their development studios from overly inflated hellholes like California to Florida, etc.

 

[StereoVsn]

I don't recall doing that outside of one of the reviews maybe calling it an early RPG of the year contender, but it is a damn good RPG.

Have fun

Is it a good RPG or good Action Adventure game with RPG Elements.

I haven't played it, but watching reviews it seems to have fun combat, traversal, pretty good graphics and world, and at same time static NPCs, weak quests, weak character interaction and middling story.

 

[adamsapple]

Is it a good RPG or good Action Adventure game with RPG Elements.

I haven't played it, but watching reviews it seems to have fun combat, traversal, pretty good graphics and world, and at same time static NPCs, weak quests, weak character interaction and middling story.

I'd say this veers more closer to an RPG with fast(er) paced combat.

FF16, for example, is a straight up ARPG, this is much closer to a traditional RPG in terms of combat, mechanics equipment etc. The major thing that differentiates this from let's say Skyrim, is that combat is faster paced, has more variety and is generally better and more responsive than anything in Elder Scrolls so far.

 

[StereoVsn]

I'd say this veers more closer to an RPG with fast(er) paced combat.

FF16, for example, is a straight up ARPG, this is much closer to a traditional RPG in terms of combat, mechanics equipment etc. The major thing that differentiates this from let's say Skyrim, is that combat is faster paced, has more variety and is generally better and more responsive than anything in Elder Scrolls so far.

That's still more of an ARPG considering you can't even direct your companions (or can you, wasn't sure) nor can you equip them.

And especially so considering weak story and static world.

Doesn't mean the game isn't fun, but fluid combat doesn't mean a game is a good RPG.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Is it a good RPG or good Action Adventure game with RPG Elements.

I haven't played it, but watching reviews it seems to have fun combat, traversal, pretty good graphics and world, and at same time static NPCs, weak quests, weak character interaction and middling story.

Action-RPG + Exploration in a tailored made world with a dash of RPG. RPG-lite. Like simplified companions, simplified mechanics. Story/Narrative will depend if the likes of Pillars of Eternity was your jam. I think the choices they give is pretty great and even unhinged sometimes they even let you do some of those answers/choices. The combat combinations between warrior-ranger-wizard and the combination of those weapons in each hands or swapping to another set with a click is just fucking awesome.





If you go in with the expectations that NPCs don't have a routine (but some still roam), that you can't kill them unless you get into a dialogue that allows you to, like Mass Effect & Witcher 3, that lockpicking does not have a minigame but is a requirement of how many you it costs like Pillars of Eternity, and not focus that "it could have been" a creation engine RPG even though barely any RPGs are creation engine RPGs, then I think trying it on gamepass is a no brainer.

 

[Fess]

That's still more of an ARPG considering you can't even direct your companions (or can you, wasn't sure) nor can you equip them.

And especially so considering weak story and static world.

Doesn't mean the game isn't fun, but fluid combat doesn't mean a game is a good RPG.

It is a classic Bethesda-like western RPG, just not as alive and interactive and it's not an open huge map but different areas instead, lots of different choices in quests, side and main quests, stats and skills, exploration, loot, etc. The map layout is great, a bit similar to Indiana Jones in how it's dense with content and well-designed for parkour and exploration.
You have a companion power wheel, you pause the game and aim at an enemy and choose a power to attack with.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Sadly, seems like when something like KCD II can be made for 40 million elsewhere, means it's time to pretty much close up shop over here until the environment is more competitive - honestly they could save a ton just moving their development studios from overly inflated hellholes like California to Florida, etc.

Salaries are much lower in Europe and Japan

Plus team size is a lot smaller, they aren't paying for DEI consultants, and their dev cycles are shorter

It all adds up in the end

 

[adamsapple]

Action-RPG + Exploration in a tailored made world with a dash of RPG. RPG-lite. Like simplified companions, simplified mechanics. Story/Narrative will depend if the likes of Pillars of Eternity was your jam. I think the choices they give is pretty great and even unhinged sometimes they even let you do some of those answers/choices. The combat combinations between warrior-ranger-wizard and the combination of those weapons in each hands or swapping to another set with a click is just fucking awesome.





If you go in with the expectations that NPCs don't have a routine (but some still roam), that you can't kill them unless you get into a dialogue that allows you to, like Mass Effect & Witcher 3, that lockpicking does not have a minigame but is a requirement of how many you it costs like Pillars of Eternity, and not focus that "it could have been" a creation engine RPG even though barely any RPGs are creation engine RPGs, then I think trying it on gamepass is a no brainer.

It is an action RPG for sure, but the RPG mechanics are there. Maybe not the biggest skill trees and abilities menu but a respectable one. I've played plenty of RPGs with lesser mechanics.

Other, non combat related things, like more in-depth companion customization etc, sure I agree that those things are a bit simplified.

 

[Buggy Loop]

It is an action RPG for sure, but the RPG mechanics are there. Maybe not the biggest skill trees and abilities menu but a respectable one. I've played plenty of RPGs with lesser mechanics.

Other, non combat related things, like more in-depth companion customization etc, sure I agree that those things are a bit simplified.

Yea the skill tree / abilities for the main character is pretty damn good and actually part of what makes the combat interesting because the skills actually have big impacts for the most part. In all honestly, this lean RPG experience with a shitload of QOL improvements that don't waste players' time, and it is a big list of QOL improvements, means I'm just enjoying it without the annoyances. Coming from a playthrough of KCD 1 which I finished just last week, which again is a masterpiece but one that does not respect player time, playing this is fucking refreshing. Like it was good timing it released after I played that game. No chance in hell I was jumping into KCD 2 straight after KCD 1.

 

[Idleyes]

Holy shit that guys playstyle makes mine look like it's turn based.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Most popular Xbox games — Avowed rockets into top 3 after Game Pass launch

Our latest gameplay chart of popular Xbox games sees Avowed soaring straight into the top three after launching into Xbox Game Pass.

www.trueachievements.com

Seems to be tracking like Indy did. That plus the Steam max number being 63% up over Indy can't be bad news. I imagine the game has better engagement as far as hours played too. Hopefully that's enough for a sequel.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yea the skill tree / abilities for the main character is pretty damn good and actually part of what makes the combat interesting because the skills actually have big impacts for the most part. In all honestly, this lean RPG experience with a shitload of QOL improvements that don't waste players' time, and it is a big list of QOL improvements, means I'm just enjoying it without the annoyances. Coming from a playthrough of KCD 1 which I finished just last week, which again is a masterpiece but one that does not respect player time, playing this is fucking refreshing. Like it was good timing it released after I played that game. No chance in hell I was jumping into KCD 2 straight after KCD 1.

Yeah, personally I prefer KCD approach. KCD1 was good , but KCD2 is absolutely brilliant and one of the best WRPGs I have ever played.

And then I still have Rebirth to finish, Ronin is coming soon and I have couple hundred games in my backlog.

Which is basically why I don't usually bother with "ok" games that are "merely" decent to good. Too many great games around. Still haven't finished Infinite Wealth either.

That said, I can see myself getting a month of three of GamePass down the line and giving this a shot.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Yeah, personally I prefer KCD approach. KCD1 was good , but KCD2 is absolutely brilliant and one of the best WRPGs I have ever played.

Oh I prefer it also don't get me wrong, but I couldn't go KCD 1 ► KCD 2 back to back, that's too heavy.

 

[StereoVsn]

Oh I prefer it also don't get me wrong, but I couldn't go KCD 1 ► KCD 2 back to back, that's too heavy.

I could see that. Need a palette cleanser. It's like if you play too many Yakuza or say Atlus games in row. You need a change of scenery so to speak.

I got to say though, after KCD2 (not that I am anywhere close to finishing the game) any Western RPG got to bring some serious receipts. I just can't believe how damn immersive the game is.

I really wish they could make a fantasy WRPG based on their engine. It would be absolutely brilliant and true Skyrim successor (vs whatever shitshow Bethesda releases next).

 

[sendit]

Holy shit that guys playstyle makes mine look like it's turn based.

Looks like the difference between mouse/keyboard vs gamepad gameplay.

 

[Topher]

Action-RPG + Exploration in a tailored made world with a dash of RPG. RPG-lite. Like simplified companions, simplified mechanics. Story/Narrative will depend if the likes of Pillars of Eternity was your jam. I think the choices they give is pretty great and even unhinged sometimes they even let you do some of those answers/choices. The combat combinations between warrior-ranger-wizard and the combination of those weapons in each hands or swapping to another set with a click is just fucking awesome.





If you go in with the expectations that NPCs don't have a routine (but some still roam), that you can't kill them unless you get into a dialogue that allows you to, like Mass Effect & Witcher 3, that lockpicking does not have a minigame but is a requirement of how many you it costs like Pillars of Eternity, and not focus that "it could have been" a creation engine RPG even though barely any RPGs are creation engine RPGs, then I think trying it on gamepass is a no brainer.

I gotta try the double pistols

 

[Wildebeest]

Just leaving this here.

 

[mckmas8808]

Most popular Xbox games — Avowed rockets into top 3 after Game Pass launch

Our latest gameplay chart of popular Xbox games sees Avowed soaring straight into the top three after launching into Xbox Game Pass.

www.trueachievements.com

Seems to be tracking like Indy did. That plus the Steam max number being 63% up over Indy can't be bad news. I imagine the game has better engagement as far as hours played too. Hopefully that's enough for a sequel.

It more than likely cost over 100 million to make. This isn't getting a sequel unless OTW2 goes crazy!

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It more than likely cost over 100 million to make. This isn't getting a sequel unless OTW2 goes crazy!

Developers have spent quite a but of time sending a message this isn't a high budget title.

Yet we have people claiming otherwise. LMAO.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hopefully this turns into a base for future projects where they address people's issues similar to an Uncharted 1 scenario.

Problem is. You don't get that chance with less than stellar sales. It's probably dead. Unless it continues to sell at a steady rate.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Hopefully this turns into a base for future projects where they address people's issues similar to an Uncharted 1 scenario.

Problem is. You don't get that chance with less than stellar sales. It's probably dead. Unless it continues to sell at a steady rate.

Sales don't matter. /s

 

[alphachino]

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

Exactly. They are trying to alter the rules of engagement/move the goalposts while simultaneously attempting to carpet-bomb the old goalposts. They are pathetic.

 

[wolffy66]

I still really struggle with the claim that sales don't matter. If Microsoft absolutely does not care about selling their games and only about gamepass, then why not make them all gamepass exclusive?

Is this a real question?

There's no gamepass on PS, if there was im sure it would be exclusive to it.

 

[havoc00]

Why is the leveling in this game so annoying?