DeepEnigma
Gold Member
A little pricey, but impressive. Especially the overclocking capabilities.
AYA NEO Retro Pro - The portable Ryzen 7 4800U powered Xbox/PS?
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
- Platform
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's PS3 EMU was quite impressive. Get on that shit Sony for those that want PS3 on PS5 natively.
Last edited:
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Not by much, if at all. It is seriously impressive stuff however, but the Neo shows the difference between a small scale firm and a huge ass company like Valve - They can just sell that thing at a loss and still win huge based on hype alone.
And Valve has more than enough pockets to completely customize the hardware yet sell it for less and have developers optimize for that hardware - The Neo is in essense a Minisforum mini PC attached to a screen.
Which is still highly impressive, but Aya simply does not have the financial pockets to do what Valve does. For instance, the Vega 8 GPU can accomodate 4 GB i believe of that LPDDR4X memory, memory which is also slower than the quad channel set up of Steam Deck (And can occupy up to 8 GB LPDDR5)
Still would be lovely to have one though - If anything to compare it in a few years down the line to see how that top tier set up runs now - 16 GB LPDDR4X, Vega 8 with 512 GCN based cores is still a huge chunk more than a Switch.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
That's what the Deck is. No idea where you're getting devs optimizing specifically for it. If a game has low enough requirements it'll run great on that and all other low end devices, laptops, desktops, all. Maybe devices like that becoming more mainstream will make some devs optimize for that sort of APU/SOC/whatever, not any single device, which Valve can't guarantee some crazy sales on par with a popular console for either just as they couldn't for the Steam machines, though it'll certainly have ramifications if it does do well (if it even is widely enough avaiable naturally and doesn't encounter chip shortages) in that more such devices will come along faster than otherwise (though they exist already like this and the GPD Win they're niche but chipset manufacturers are striving toward making more such devices possible & viable hence Valve also finding hardware good for it).
Last edited:
ToTTenTranz
Banned
Better CPU, worse GPU and lower memory bandwidth.
I guess that when playing games at a maximum of 1280*800p60, the additional CPU cores won't be making much of a difference. Plus the Deck's more modern GPU is going to support performance enhancing features that aren't really available on the old Vega GPU of the AYA.
I don't think there will be much of a place for these handhelds with Vega graphics when the Deck releases, considering the enormous price difference. There will probably be handhelds that perform better than the Deck when Rembrandt gets out, but I'm not counting with those being out there before late 2022.
daveonezero
Banned
It is an interesting segment of the market. Something I am watching as I'd love to have something more powerful than a switch to play my Steam library and get the multiplatform games that don't perform as well on the switch.
without getting a new console or PC mainly because of size and power requirements.
ive been looking more at the mini PCs but it looks like the Deck is gonna have the CPU GPU config that works best.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Are these giant batteries allowed on airplanes?
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
No, that's not what the Deck is - Valve has mentioned that for testing, people without a dev kit could you use a roughly comparable device. Technically they aren't the same at all.
Valve also mentioned to developers to ensure their game works on Steam Deck through performance profiles - and a mandatory 30 fps cap at 800p.
Sean Mirrsen
Banned
Literally the Steam Deck Verified program? You only get the checkmark and a spot on the new frontpage if your game does everything right and has good performance settings, and has them from the get-go without the user having to do anything.
Also Valve encouraging devs to make Deck-specific depots with lower-fidelity assets, a better fit for the device's limited storage and graphics power. And supporting the Deck's specific wild mix of control options. Among many other things.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Valve: Steam Deck is a handheld PC, stressing it everywhere since the reveal including the IGN exclusive articles they partnered for exactly to avoid randoms likening it to a console, Switch, etc. Gafer: No it's not, for reasons! Go educate Valve on their product then.
A gazillion games will pass the check, if and when Valve gets around testing them so they don't show untested, without doing anything specific for Deck just because they're already low end friendly games that support controller profiles and similar. Because it's just a low spec PC just like the shit they already support. No company will think oh, better make sure it runs optimally on Deck if they didn't already intend for it to be playable on comparable low spec machines that are plentiful out there since not everyone has a 3090 and they're always aware when developing for PC. Guess what, there are gazillions of games that don't have settings or just default to the best based on x Ghz and other detected components that a new APU doesn't somehow hide, default to chosen native resolution and so on, while the uncolored Xbox prompts work just fine as Deck prompts, duh.
Steam platform/OS offering good shit to users like controller support and family sharing and play together and whatever else and Valve extending that user friendliness to their Deck for users to have a way to tell how it fares with a given game at a glance doesn't make it different to a PC.
Last edited:
Sean Mirrsen
Banned
Exactly zero games will pass the check without some kind of input from the developers.
Because among many points in the Verified program, there are these:
- The game must provide a graphics configuration that makes for a good experience on the Deck, by default
- The game must provide a controller configuration that makes it playable on the Deck, by default
- The game must show correct Deck-appropriate controller glyphs for controller prompts
So unless you think a game is going to spontaneously autodetect correct settings for optimal play, for a literally first-of-its-kind custom APU in a unique hardware configuration, while running on Linux under a compatibility layer, and spontaneously sprouting the correct references to the new Deck controller glyphs in its settings, I really don't think you've thought that opinion of yours through.
And if you do think that, you're fairly certainly wrong.
The main difference is actually the fact that valve don't need to generate any profit from the hardware, they will make it from the store.
These guys do need to get profit from the hardware.
Size of the pocket is a secondary thing
Last edited:
ToTTenTranz
Banned
Not only that but I expect the user experience on the Deck, customer support and all kinds of troubleshooting to be much better on the Steam Deck.
I'm not crapping on AYA, One-Netbook or GPD in any way. Those guys are doing an excellent job considering their scale. But they can't match Valve's workforce of software developers, budget and scale.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Microsoft would require it to run windows to install via the windows store, which would limit performance on a lower powered device like this compared to linux. Microsoft won't make one. Sony might once their profits start drying up, but then again why would they when they're going to be releasing all of their games on Steam?
daveonezero
Banned
For sure. And even the mini PCs won't have.
The cool thing is that any chipset running Linux/SteamOS is going to benefit from the Steam Deck.
GDP, Aya witll probably be shipping with SteamOS some day.
Steam may actually get back to a SteamBox model.
Evidence? Also Windows can get quite light in terms of hardware if it needs to be.
Ezquimacore
Banned
Y'all not going to let it go, I see.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
If you fail to understand that the hardware recommended by Valve as a rough comparable for people without a dev kit isn't the same tech as the Steam Deck itself then you are arguing for a void.
i don't have to, what i answered to you is literally their own statement. I don't need no education, but you may need to read up on what i am actually saying, since you seem to think that i am saying that the Steam Deck is not a PC at all, or something like that.
And perhaps that's how they can set the BOM/costs so low - Something Aya could never reach.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
No idea what you're going on about dev kits, I just quoted you saying Aya Neo is a small form PC, implying that's somehow different to what the Deck is, to which I replied and said that's what the Deck is, a handheld PC as Valve keep stressing since day one, forever, and you wrongly replied no. I never said its particular SOC has been in a gazillion other systems in that exact configuration or whatever else you wanna muddy the waters with. Shit don't stop being PCs every time a new CPU, GPU, APU or whatever is introduced to the field by a brand. The Deck is a handheld PC. Deal with it.
Last edited:
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
You are reading it incorrectly, but since you want to be adamant i shall laid it out again.
- The Aya Neo models are a series of handheld PCs, in its Radeon Edition with a 4800U, its Zen 2 based with GCN based Vega 8 Graphics with 512 cores. This is marred to 16 GB LPDDR4X. It can (if i recall correctly) up to 4 GB LPDDR4X as VRAM.
- The Steam Deck is a handheld PC, with the AMD Aerith SoC. It is Zen 2 based, with RDNA2 based graphics with 512 cores. This is marred to 16 GB LPDDR5 in a quad channel configuration. 1 GB LPDDR5 is reserved by default, but the SoC can allocate up to 8 GB LPDDR5 as VRAM.
- The Neo and Steam Deck are handheld PC's ,but their internals are different, as is above postulated. Things like LPDDR5, a quad memory controller, TDP improvements, developers having to include performance profiles, RDNA2, and so on and so forth.
- For those developers who do not have a devkit (Which is basically a Steam Deck), Valve recommends a mini PC with rougly comparable specs - This is a Minisforum based mini PC with Zen 2 cores and GCN based Vega 8 cores.
- Here i say that this machine (and the Aya Neo) is not one and the same as a Steam Deck given there are significant difference in technical underpinings. Again, what is above postulated.
- What Valve is saying for the Mini PC atleast is that its roughly comparable - In practice, one could expect further efficiencies due to the custom SoC.
Since that isn't what i was saying anyway i have no problems with this.
Sean Mirrsen
Banned
The Deck is a standardized, single-configuration handheld PC, with a dedicated software compatibility component, and games being tested and graded based on compatibility with that one standard configuration. Its hardware components cannot be changed besides storage, and it is a single, corporation-backed and branded device that, much like a console, has games being specifically adapted for it, with a dedicated store (well, store section) listing those games.
Valve only stresses that the Deck is a PC, because it is so unlike a PC by conventional user metrics. Its hardware design is that of a console, the same as a Switch, and it presents a simplified, gamepad-focused frontend experience like a console does, but it runs a PC OS underneath that frontend. Valve needs to reiterate the PC thing at every corner, because it's vitally important for their marketing that there is no disconnect between the Deck and PC in the consumer's eye, despite all evidence to the contrary. Face it - no matter how you look at the Deck, if you don't see that Linux OS underneath, all you'll see is a console.
Would you call a PS3 running Linux, a PC? Besides the power and not being a handheld, there isn't much difference between the Deck and that.
In my opinion, much like the Switch it defies standard classification. I prefer to consider it a handheld PC-console hybrid.
Last edited:
i suspect some of you will be surprised when the benchmarks start coming out.
If proton was yielding transformative performance improvements over windows 10, there'd be a large thread here on GAF already.
Haint
Member
$1300 is why all these Chinese portables have never found a market outside the Youtubers that make videos on them, nobody's going to pay that much for a tertiary use case. Valve likely sold more units in the first minute than the rest of these companies combined have over the 6 or 7 years they've been making them.
Last edited:
Dream-Knife
Banned
The memory overhead of windows is a real thing. It largely doesn't effect us on PC due to the separation of sysRam and Vram. These APUs use a shared pool.
Remember that arch is a build it yourself distro. Valve probably has it pretty bare like Xububtu.
SportsFan581
Member
They put the sticks in the right locations. +1 for that.
01011001
Banned
I would never buy this, for 1 reason... the tiny analog sticks that are the same as Joycon sticks... that type of analog stick is absolutely useless for shooters because they lack any sense of precision, and they also die super fast and easily as we saw with plenty of Joy Con drift reports. one of my joycons also started drifting like a year ago, and I barely even play Switch and when I do I usually play on the TV or using the Hori SplitPad (which also has absolutely shit build quality, but that is another issue completely)
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
I can almost guarantee Microsoft will jump on a device like this. They will make a handheld PC running a customized Windows for smaller screens. Of course you would have the option to install Epic Game Store and Steam like any Windows machine but it would be integrated with Windows Game Store. Surface Team at Microsoft already make hybrid tablets/laptops so a system similar Deck wouldnt be a massive task for Microsoft hardware engineers. They already have the hardware team and the software to get this done and majority of their recent games are cross gen so they will easily run.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Don't they have a mobile version of windows already that can only install from the Microsoft store?
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Why wouldn't they wait for a mobile solution from AMD that would let them essentially make an Xbox Series P(ortable) with the same power as the Series S? Sounds like we're not that far away from that being feasible.
Topher
Identifies as young
Heat and battery life come to mind...
SportsFan581
Member
This would be the idea I would go with, if it was compatible with all the series software via the XSS versions it would automatically have a complete library including the entire back catalog.
That and a simple clamshell Xcloud device would be the perfect combo. The streaming device could be basically a streaming stick with a screen and battery so that you could keep it extremely svelte and pocket-able. Probably WiFi only and you tether to a mobile if you are out of WiFi range. Would be a lot more convenient than carrying a controller with you, standard or those ones that fit around a phone.
As that technology won't exist where the battery life and heat is manageable. They are better going the Windows route, unless they must want to make a handheld where Devs would need to port which would basically lose its appeal due to lack of games. A Windows based system like Steam Deck would be appeing simply due to the amount of content already released in Windows.
Isn't Steamdeck already halfway there to Series S?
supernova8
Banned
"and as always, thaaaaaaaaaanks for waaaaaaaaaaatching". Fucking love ETA Prime's channel. Amazing consistency.
SportsFan581
Member
That's true, further advancement would be needed. An idea for mid to late gen at best.
I guess we'll see how well the steam deck holds up once the cross-gen phase ends, will everything be a slideshow on that or will it hang in there.
Interfectum
Member
How hot and loud does this thing get?
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Last edited: