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[kevboard]

what what?

the Xbox One is not able to emulate Xbox 360 games. like literally not able to in any way shape or form.
that CPU is not physically capable of doing that.

if you play a 360 game on backwards compatibility you are playing a recompiled version that runs natively on x86 CPUs

 

[RetroGamingUK]

"Hey guys, let's license out our plummeting brand value to third party manufacturers so we can lock particularly demanding consumers into our absurdly costly subscription service that has completely flatlined."

Some people here can't see past Xbox as being a discreet console walled garden. They have to get out of this mindset from now on, because it's quite clear that the old paradigm is over.

Xbox has recently done a huge marketing push telling us that our TVs, phones and grandmothers are Xboxes.

An 'xbox game' is any game that you play via Game Pass or buy on the Xbox store. It doesn't matter what device you actually use to play it.

 

[Topher]

I wouldn't assume this.

Well that's why I brought it up. Seems like these are things that would have to be addressed internally.

 

[Iced Arcade]

So an Xbox with windows and has access to steam and other PC games that can be made by other manufacturers?


Playing tlou on a 3rd party handheld Xbox is going to be wild.

 

[Fess]

So an Xbox with windows and has access to steam and other PC games that can be made by other manufacturers?


Playing tlou on a 3rd party handheld Xbox is going to be wild.

There is nothing said about Steam here, but if it's regular Windows in the back, like how Linux is on Steam Deck, then at worst it should be possible to exit an "XboxOS mode" and go to Windows and run Steam there.

 

[ByWatterson]

Some people here can't see past Xbox as being a discreet console walled garden. They have to get out of this mindset from now on, because it's quite clear that the old paradigm is over.

Xbox has recently done a huge marketing push telling us that our TVs, phones and grandmothers are Xboxes.

An 'xbox game' is any game that you play via Game Pass or buy on the Xbox store. It doesn't matter what device you actually use to play it.

Yeah, no, we get it.

But Game Pass has peaked and is not sustainable. So then we're down to remote play (ew) and branded hardware (huhuhuh).

Xbox is a publisher now. That's it.

 

[Jigsaah]

I hope this goes well. Next gen I would like get the Xbox handheld along with the PS6 if it's good and priced right. Xbox coming out sooner makes this more plausible. Normally I would have to choose one or the other to start, but with this staggered release between the two, it makes it much easier. This is especially convenient given I'm pretty set with my current PC setup with the 4090 and 9800x3d. No need to make any major purchases until the 60 series comes out.

 

[Kazekage1981]

What about Windows on ARM? There has to be a big push for converting x86 games to native ARM rather than emulation. With AMD's soundwave + NVIDIA's collaboration with mediatek+Future Qualcomm CPU/GPU's I am hoping you can get a windows ARM device foldable/phablet form factor that can: game, make phone calls, with great cameras and be full-fledged ARM laptop. Android and Iphone am RIP.

 

[jm89]

RIP if that is the strategy.

 

[Topher]

So an Xbox with windows and has access to steam and other PC games that can be made by other manufacturers?


Playing tlou on a 3rd party handheld Xbox is going to be wild.

But that's just a Windows PC so not really that wild. The interesting part is really just the merged store with all Xbox games apparently becoming Play Anywhere.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Not yet (I know their next-gen console is supposedly coming in 2027).

But they are paving the way (third party Xbox decks) to get rid of custom consoles business if one day it costs them too much money.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

RIP if that is the strategy.

They will not be able to judge anything by this, a pure Windows machine as compared to a 3rd party "Xbox"

Not yet (I know their next-gen console is supposedly coming in 2027).

But they are paving the way (third party Xbox decks) to get rid of custom consoles business if it costs them too much money.

They may very well go 3rd party for their next "consoles" but I am quite confident they will be able to run all Xbox games and I know Phil wanted to carry any existing library with you

They wont ask people to leave that all behind, turning their backs on their hardcore fans would tank sales even worse.

 

[MayauMiao]

What about Windows on ARM? There has to be a big push for converting x86 games to native ARM rather than emulation. With AMD's soundwave + NVIDIA's collaboration with mediatek+Future Qualcomm CPU/GPU's I am hoping you can get a windows ARM device foldable/phablet form factor that can: game, make phone calls, with great cameras and be full-fledged ARM laptop. Android and Iphone am RIP.

Delusional grandeur.

 

[yogaflame]

Will this be another monopoly and unfair to competition issue if we see allot of products will be branded with MS xbox label and running on MS Xbox environment? They might face FTC again.

 

[mckmas8808]

And yeah it seems like there will be an Xbox handheld in their next gen launch along with a more powerful system and these sound like actual Xbox machines

Do you honestly believe this can be possible? As in, would MS be able to legit make true next-gen games if this is their hardware set up?

RIP if that is the strategy.

Yeah there's literally NO WAY this strategy can work. It.....just.....makes.......no.........sense!

What data will MS be looking for in 2026 from this device that will go on sale in Holiday 2025? Because whatever data they get, can't be used for a device to be sold in 2027. There's NO TIME!

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Will this be another monopoly and unfair to competition issue if we see allot of products will be branded with MS xbox label and running on MS Xbox environment? They might face FTC again.

Depends how far branding goes?

If all ASUS, Acer, Lenovo, HP and Dell gaming PCs call themselves Xbox (I doubt they will) that could be an issue.

More likely most will stick an "Xbox" compatible sticker on them.

 

[Kacho]

RIP if that is the strategy.

I can kill the canary now and save them the trouble

 

[Kings Field]

 

[jm89]

Yeah there's literally NO WAY this strategy can work. It.....just.....makes.......no.........sense!

It's xbox. It make's perfect sense

 

[StereoVsn]

How is the avg joe meant to follow all this shit the way they are diluting the brand is wild next were gonna have a daewoo & phillips xbox

That new wall oven you got with a small control screen - it's an Xbox!

 

[MayauMiao]

 

[Kacho]

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I mean in terms of business model, yes.

Third party vendors making hardware to sell other company's games will always be sold at a profit.

But then this has always been the PC model.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Do you honestly believe this can be possible? As in, would MS be able to legit make true next-gen games if this is their hardware set up?

I have heard for a while now we were getting an actual dedicated Xbox handheld even possibly dockable but that has been like maybe a year ago so did a course change happen and they went strictly Windows handheld?

Tom Warren seems convinced we are still getting this Xbox handheld but then why put your Xbox logo on this Windows handheld?

Talk about confusing people

And sure they could still make true legit next gen games as we get that today in gorgeous PC games then not great Steamdeck versions

Something just doesn't sound right

 

[Clear]

If MS drops a handheld after the Switch 2 price gets announced but before the Switch 2 goes on sale, at the same price as Switch 2, and this console can emulate Switch 2 games...
Nintendo uses the same type of UI that emulators and PC use so the Windows handheld really wouldn't be missing anything in terms of the UX provided by a Switch 2.
Previous Nintendo consoles allowed users to boot right into games while emulators require homescreen game selection and this difference in UX is something that deterred people from emulating.

It won't be close to the same price. They can't subsidize products built by third party partners, and third party partners have a lot to lose by pricing their Xbox branded hand-held PC's below that of non branded PC hand-helds. So expect price parity at best, and most like above that of equivalently specced pc handhelds.

This is why they are pre-emptively lowering expectations by presenting it as an exploratory product.

It won't be cheap, in fact I'd expect it to be in the ballpark of the PS5Pro price-wise.

 

[Punished Miku]

I have heard for a while now we were getting an actual dedicated Xbox handheld even possibly dockable but that has been like maybe a year ago so did a course change happen and they went strictly Windows handheld?

Tom Warren seems convinced we are still getting this Xbox handheld but then why put your Xbox logo on this Windows handheld?

Talk about confusing people

And sure they could still make true legit next gen games as we get that today in gorgeous PC games then not great Steamdeck versions

Something just doesn't sound right

If I had to guess we're getting:

1. 3rd party Windows handheld.
2. Major Windows update with store merger.
3. Xbox PC / Console
4. Xbox ARM handheld (much thinner, better battery) equivalent to a Series S

In that order.

 

[MayauMiao]

I mean in terms of business model, yes.

Third party vendors making hardware to sell other company's games will always be sold at a profit.

But then this has always been the PC model.

That means Xbox handheld will cost many time over than the Switch 2 which will be its Achilles heel.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That means Xbox handheld will cost many time over than the Switch 2 which will be its Achilles heel.

The same applies to all PC handhelds outside of SteamDeck (Valve making money from each game sold).

 

[ResilientBanana]

I think I understand. In simple words, they'll lose backward compatibility to a majority of their older catalogue, but from then on every game released on Xbox will be essentially a PC game. Forward compatible so to speak.

Its not the end of the world, and it happened to Sony and Nintendo too, but for people like me who keep an One X around to play older games it feels like theres no need to change that.

Maybe on handhelds, but not consoles. I'm sure they will continue to include their Xbox - Xbox One emulation as a proprietary app on their larger consoles. Handheld will have cloud based emulation, most likely.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Maybe on handhelds, but not consoles. I'm sure they will continue to include their Xbox - Xbox One emulation as a proprietary app on their larger consoles. Handheld will have cloud based emulation, most likely.

Depends whether or not there is another console.

The 2027 "console" could be another ASUS machine with the same game compatibility.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Depends whether or not there is another console.

The 2027 "console" could be another ASUS machine with the same game compatibility.

oh god please no.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

oh god please no.

Change the red to green and you have another Xbox branded device.

I wonder how deep this Microsoft and ASUS partnership goes.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It all adds up to a bunch of marketing for a launcher UI that is really just Windows PC gaming.

I don't think it's a coincidence Microsoft is harping on their play anywhere title count today.

Gonna get pretty tiresome having media figures parrot the "it's an Xbox" gaslighting for what amounts to a PC.

 

[reinking]

I have heard for a while now we were getting an actual dedicated Xbox handheld even possibly dockable but that has been like maybe a year ago so did a course change happen and they went strictly Windows handheld?

Tom Warren seems convinced we are still getting this Xbox handheld but then why put your Xbox logo on this Windows handheld?

Talk about confusing people

And sure they could still make true legit next gen games as we get that today in gorgeous PC games then not great Steamdeck versions

Something just doesn't sound right

Is the Surface team still involved in the development of the next Xbox console? I assume console could mean the handheld too. Project Kennan seems closer to an Xbox branded Ally than it does a new Xbox handheld. It would not make sense for them to be involved with Kennan.

Maybe this is a test run to see how the market reacts to both an OEM console and/or an Xbox handheld? Like you said, it is confusing and not making any sense if they are going to launch their own handheld. I don't know if I "trust in Phil" anymore but somebody at Xbox has to have a sensible and focused plan. Right?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Is the Surface team still involved in the development of the next Xbox console? I assume console could mean the handheld too. Project Kennan seems closer to an Xbox branded Ally than it does a new Xbox handheld. It would not make sense for them to be involved with Kennan.

Maybe this is a test run to see how the market reacts to both an OEM console and/or an Xbox handheld? Like you said, it is confusing and not making any sense if they are going to launch their own handheld. I don't know if I "trust in Phil" anymore but somebody at Xbox has to have a sensible and focused plan. Right?

No idea on the Surface team honestly

I really don't understand their direction, its like they are purposely sending this Windows based handheld out to die if they release their own a year or so later

But we are also taking the word of Jez here on this Xbox branded device

 

[Punished Miku]

No idea on the Surface team honestly

I really don't understand their direction, its like they are purposely sending this Windows based handheld out to die if they release their own a year or so later

But we are also taking the word of Jez here on this Xbox branded device

Assuming they have a second handheld, I think the strategy is to just get something out now to slow down Steam OS growth. Will cost very little to customize an existing windows handheld. Low risk, just something small since the ARM stuff is further away.

 

[Astray]

But we are also taking the word of Jez here on this Xbox branded device

People like to use his bad info to detract from his good info, but to me the thing about Jez is, he always tells you what MS want you to hear, that's the common throughline with all his info.

He frequently gets scoops like this to build up 'credit' so they can use him to defuse the heat when things leak in a negative way.

His problem is he's not smart about it like Tom Warren, and immediately goes to print with anything he gets, and thus he doesn't know when he's getting played by his sources (like the infamous hopium tweet, I would bet money that a strong MS source told him that info, no way he'd be that brazen about it otherwise).

 

[FingerBang]

I think Xbox will stay as a brand, but MS will fully move towards providing software via their studios. This is the only way forward for them.

I think the best thing to do is to make Xbox an OS and sell it to everyone. Make it easy and convenient for people to play games purchased with it. Give the option of using other stores, but in a less convenient/ui UI-friendly way, just like it happens on Steam Deck.

But you don't get backward compatibility, and most of your games will stay on a console. I get it sucks, but that's the price to pay. Maybe MS could do something about their backward compatibility program, but I doubt it would be as straightforward on PC, mostly for licensing.

I imagine the two handheld things are just because the software will be ready before the hardware, so they are partnering with people to beta test it. They might be waiting for some kind of custom chip they're developing with AMD. After all, that's what Valve did. This doesn't mean it won't be a PC.

 

[BattleScar]

If Xbox gets Steam, then Sony will simply stop publishing their games on Steam.
A PlayStation store probably would get laughed at harder than the Epic Games Store, but it would make more sense for Sony.

 

[LordBritish]

Ive said it before and will say it again..

300+ games for gold here in my xbox acct...

just give me a portable to play those games please, fuck it, emulate a 360 on this portable, i dont care, just give me the option

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I think the best thing to do is to make Xbox an OS and sell it to everyone. Make it easy and convenient for people to play games purchased with it. Give the option of using other stores, but in a less convenient/ui UI-friendly way, just like it happens on Steam Deck.

Xbox as an app on Windows that can be triggered via a physical button on "Xbox certified" hardware seems more likely.

I see no evidence of an "Xbox OS" outside of Series consoles, which are fast becoming legacy devices.

 

[mckmas8808]

Assuming they have a second handheld, I think the strategy is to just get something out now to slow down Steam OS growth. Will cost very little to customize an existing windows handheld. Low risk, just something small since the ARM stuff is further away.

But this just messes everything up. What if a real Xbox fan buys this device in Fall 2025? You really think they'll buy the "real" Xbox Handheld in Fall of 2026?

 

[March Climber]

'It won't run Xbox console games'

 

[adamsapple]

They may very well go 3rd party for their next "consoles" but I am quite confident they will be able to run all Xbox games and I know Phil wanted to carry any existing library with you.

They wont ask people to leave that all behind, turning their backs on their hardcore fans would tank sales even worse.

The bolded part is key for me, if they do a clean break with the next quote unquote flagship device, that's going to be a massive nah bro from me.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The bolded part is key for me, if they do a clean break with the next quote unquote flagship device, that's going to be a massive nah bro from me.

There is zero sense to build a next gen console of any sort if you lose your digital library and especially the silly notion of it not playing Xbox games.

That's just a PC and they aren't doing that.

As of today I would bet ALOT of money on that

I have a West Coast trip coming up to open the Baseball season and catching up with a lot of old friends inside and outside of Baseball and should get a much better idea of what's going on after that trip as having a few dinners with some gaming friends out there

 

[awwr999999]

It won't be close to the same price. They can't subsidize products built by third party partners, and third party partners have a lot to lose by pricing their Xbox branded hand-held PC's below that of non branded PC hand-helds. So expect price parity at best, and most like above that of equivalently specced pc handhelds.
This is why they are pre-emptively lowering expectations by presenting it as an exploratory product.
It won't be cheap, in fact I'd expect it to be in the ballpark of the PS5Pro price-wise.

If they price it against PS5 or the pro they're not going to sell many units.
Users can't meaningfully compare a PS5 with DualSense to a handheld that plays all of their old digital-only Xbox games and emulates Switch 2 games.
On the flip side, if MS eats the cost of the handheld down to Switch 2 price or below they could steal Nintendo's sales.
Comparing a Switch 2 with an Xbox handheld that emulates most Switch 2 games and plays 100% of PC games is easily doable - they both use the same strange controller layout.
MS tried to buy Nintendo outright years ago for $25 billion. Instead of doing that again they could 'invest' that same money into giving away handhelds to take sales away from Nintendo's Switch 2.
$25 billion = MS eating $500 of the cost of each Xbox handheld for the first 50 million handhelds.
Nintendo loosing 50 million Switch 2 sales to a handheld Switch 2 emulator (that plays Switch games for free but can't buy Switch games) before the Switch 2 goes on sale would devastate them.
By giving the Xbox handheld away they can doom Switch 2 sales forcing Nintendo to sell games on the Xbox handheld to stay afloat.
Nintendo laughed at their buyout offer and getting Nintendo on Windows has been on Bill's bucket list for decades.

 

[mayham2199]

If they price it against PS5 or the pro they're not going to sell many units.
Users can't meaningfully compare a PS5 with DualSense to a handheld that plays all of their old digital-only Xbox games and emulates Switch 2 games.
On the flip side, if MS eats the cost of the handheld down to Switch 2 price or below they could steal Nintendo's sales.
Comparing a Switch 2 with an Xbox handheld that emulates most Switch 2 games and plays 100% of PC games is easily doable - they both use the same strange controller layout.
MS tried to buy Nintendo outright years ago for $25 billion. Instead of doing that again they could 'invest' that same money into giving away handhelds to take sales away from Nintendo's Switch 2.
$25 billion = MS eating $500 of the cost of each Xbox handheld for the first 50 million handhelds.
Nintendo loosing 50 million Switch 2 sales to a handheld Switch 2 emulator (that plays Switch games for free but can't buy Switch games) before the Switch 2 goes on sale would devastate them.
By giving the Xbox handheld away they can doom Switch 2 sales forcing Nintendo to sell games on the Xbox handheld to stay afloat.
Nintendo laughed at their buyout offer and getting Nintendo on Windows has been on Bill's bucket list for decades.

It's insane you even think this is how the industry works.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

It's insane you even think this is how the industry works.

If Xbox was willing to eat $500 for each console sold to beat Nintendo why didn't they do that to beat Sony? If they had sold the Series X for $10 they would surely had the best selling console.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

If Xbox was willing to eat $500 for each console sold to beat Nintendo why didn't they do that to beat Sony? If they had sold the Series X for $10 they would surely had the best selling console.

It's a good point. I mean they obviously have the money to get the sales if they just subsidise the shit out of their console, they can afford it.

So why spend 70bn on Activision if you could just 'buy' market share instead?

I put a quick calculation into ChatGPT and the conclusion was:

'If Xbox had used that $70 billion to subsidize hardware instead of buying Activision, they could have:

• Given away every Xbox for free and still had money left.
• Sold Series X for $99 and Series S for free, easily doubling their market share.
• Sold Series X for $199 and Series S for $99, making them insanely competitive while still having billions left for game development.

That would have massively boosted console adoption, Game Pass subscriptions, and overall Xbox brand dominance. But they opted for content instead—an interesting trade-off!'

 

[bitbydeath]

Reminder: This did leak during the Activision acquisition.

-Cloud games
-App Platform, not hardware

Not to mention Phil's recent interview where he avoided the question on hardware and instead talked about playing through your existing catalog via the cloud.