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[kirblar]

Men Adrift: Badly educated men in rich countries have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (The Ecconomist)

Good piece from The Economist from a few days ago detailing specifically the negative effects of the technological, social, and economic changes of the last 50 years on the lower classes in various countries, and how it radically differs from the middle-upper class experience. Despite focusing on the male half of the population, the article goes into detail on the struggles facing both men and women in today's world.

There are also some data points brought up towards the end of the article that I hadn't seen before:

- A crash in the ratio of eligible young bachelors (those w/ jobs) relative to the total number of women that now gives men much more leverage than before in selecting partners and quantifies the anecdotal issue facing African-American women.
- Issues with mandatory parental leave laws among lower-income brackets due to a wide disparity in income between partners
- In Sweden, w/ generous parental leave laws, 75% of working-class women are on contract or part-time jobs. (And half of the part-timers don't want to be part-time.)

In almost all societies a lot of men enjoy unwarranted advantages simply because of their sex. Much has been done over the past 50 years to put this injustice right; quite a bit still remains to be done.

The dead hand of male domination is a problem for women, for society as a whole—and for men like those of Tallulah. Their ideas of the world and their place in it are shaped by old assumptions about the special role and status due to men in the workplace and in the family, but they live in circumstances where those assumptions no longer apply.

In 1970 there was not much difference between the happiness of better-off families and that of the less-well-off: 73% of educated white Americans and 67% of working-class whites said their marriages were “very happy”, observes Charles Murray, a conservative writer. Among the professional class, marital satisfaction dipped sharply in the 1980s, suggesting that for a while men and women struggled with the new rules. But it has since recovered to roughly the level it was in 1970. By contrast, the share of working-class whites who say their marriages are very happy has fallen to barely 50%, despite the fact that fewer of them are getting hitched in the first place. In Britain, too, more-educated couples are more likely to say their relationship is “extremely happy”.

This difference is in part because unskilled men have less to offer than once they did. In America pay for men with only a high school diploma fell 21% in real terms between 1979 and 2013; for those who dropped out of high school it fell by a staggering 34%. Women did better. Female high-school graduates gained 3%; high-school dropouts lost 12%.

SEX ratios matter when it comes to forging relationships. And here the falling fortunes of working-class men do further damage. In 1960, among never-married American adults aged 25-34, there were 139 men with jobs for every 100 women, with or without jobs. (This was because women typically married somewhat older men.) By 2012 there were only 91 employed men for every 100 women in this group. “When women outnumber men, men become cads,” argue Ms Carbone and Ms Cahn in “Marriage Markets: How Inequality is Remaking the American Family”.

Even a small imbalance can have big effects. Imagine a simplified “mating market” consisting of ten men and ten women, all heterosexual. Everyone pairs up. Now take one man away. One woman is doomed to be single, so she may opt to poach another woman’s partner. A chain reaction ensues: all the women are suddenly less secure in their relationships. Some of the men, by contrast, become tempted to play the field rather than settle down.

In most rich countries the supply of eligible blue-collar men does not match demand. Among black Americans, thanks to mass incarceration, it does not come close. For every 100 African-American women aged 25-54 who are not behind bars, there are only 83 men of the same age at liberty. In some American inner cities there are only 50 black men with jobs for every 100 black women, calculates William Julius Wilson of Harvard University. In theory black women could “marry out”, but few do: in 2010 only 9% of black female newly-weds married men of another race.

When men with jobs are in short supply, as they are in poor neighbourhoods throughout the rich world, any presentable male can get sex, but few women will trust him to stick around or behave decently.

 

[Mii]

Feels good to be an educated man. More money relative to my backwards gender peers, more selectivity of women, and dual income streams? All just because I let the woman leave the house?

It's like modern men hit the jackpot. This on top of all the biggest old advantages (no carrying children to term).

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah we simply have not evolved culturally to keep pace with our economic and technological changes. Our society is still built around ideological structures that are increasingly outdated

This right here is the story of modern economic development, I feel

He lost his groundskeeper job, too, when a new boss merged two roles (groundskeeper and maintenance man) into one, and gave it to the man with more skills

 

[Pryce]

At some point we're (a society) going to have to focus on getting more men to go to college and for boys to do better in school we'll they're young. The widening gap of men and women in education is beyond horrible.

 

[stolin]

At some point we're (a society) going to have to focus on getting more men to go to college and for boys to do better in school we'll they're young. The widening gap of men and women in education is beyond horrible.

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

 

[The Technomancer]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

What nonsense. I went to one of the largest Universities in one of the most liberal states in the country and I never met with "hostility". Seriously, Christina Sommers?

The gender disparity is more easily explained by more women going to school since there wasn't as much of an expectation that they get a job right out of high-school

 

[OrangeJulius]

What nonsense. I went to one of the largest Universities in one of the most liberal states in the country and I never met with "hostility". Seriously, Christina Sommers?

The gender disparity is more easily explained by more women going to school since there wasn't as much of an expectation that they get a job right out of high-school

Well of course you didn't meet with hostility, you aren't a threat. Clearly Sommers is referencing hostility towards people who don't subscribe to the feminist narrative and are open about it.

Haven't read the article yet but I agree 100%

Trade, tech and productivity gains in general have been devastating for the lower half of the income spectrum, but for men especially. With the advent of machines and robots, physical strength and hand-based skills are greatly devalued. Add NAFTA, etc. to that, even the low-end manufacturing jobs can always be done cheaper in a third world country than they can in Detroit or Buffalo, NY.

No, they have been devastating to the middle end of the spectrum. Hence the shrinking middle class. America is quickly becoming a country of 1%ers and 99%ers with very little in between.

 

[hoos30]

Haven't read the article yet but I agree 100%

Trade, tech and productivity gains in general have been devastating for the lower half of the income spectrum, but for men especially. With the advent of machines and robots, physical strength and hand-based skills are greatly devalued. Add NAFTA, etc. to that, even the low-end manufacturing jobs can always be done cheaper in a third world country than they can in Detroit or Buffalo, NY.

 

[hoos30]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

HIllsdale College is an enclave of right-wing academics, not exactly the most balance source.

 

[Degen]

In most rich countries the supply of eligible blue-collar men does not match demand. Among black Americans, thanks to mass incarceration, it does not come close. For every 100 African-American women aged 25-54 who are not behind bars, there are only 83 men of the same age at liberty. In some American inner cities there are only 50 black men with jobs for every 100 black women, calculates William Julius Wilson of Harvard University.

god... the worst thing about this is that I can totally believe it

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

LolChristinaSommers
P.S. Who in their right mind would spend an hour listening to bullshit right-wing gator nonsense?

 

[The Technomancer]

god... the worst thing about this is that I can totally believe it

Its absolutely fucking awful. Our incarceration rates are abysmal, and downright criminal for black men, and our culture gets so high off of "meting out justice to the bad people" that you're never going to get any political momentum to change it

 

[jtb]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

a hostile place for men? lol

 

[Kevyt]

At some point we're (a society) going to have to focus on getting more men to go to college and for boys to do better in school we'll they're young. The widening gap of men and women in education is beyond horrible.

I wonder what the cause of this is?

 

[hoos30]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

Nothing wrong with the university system as a whole. Obviously there are kooks and cranks of all stripes at some schools.

 

[twobear]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men.

lowkey...have you ever been to university?

 

[Zornack]

At some point we're (a society) going to have to focus on getting more men to go to college and for boys to do better in school we'll they're young. The widening gap of men and women in education is beyond horrible.

Could this possibly have the side effect of more men going towards higher paying but higher risk physical labor trade school routes, further widening the wage gap?

The top degrees for women relate to Health Professions, Public Administration, Education, Psychology, Foreign Languages, English, Communications and Journalism, Art and Performance and BIology. Lots of not so valuable degrees there.

If plumbers, electricians, oil field workers, etc. continue to be primarily men and the college trends, both on attendance by gender and most sought after degrees, continue then that must have some continued effect on the difference in wages between genders.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I love the LolChristinaSommers posts already. Meaning none of you bothered to even take the time to watch the video that was posted.

Your immediate reaction is to immediately devalue and defraud what she is saying without even hearing what she has to say.

That's incredibly academic and educated of you.

 

[Yen]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

I'm not watching the video but the only people I know who post Christina Sommers video are anti-feminist, Men's Rights Activists (who are, let's face it, anti-women). From what I've seen of her work, she chats complete and utter bollocks.

I love the LolChristinaSommers posts already. Meaning none of you bothered to even take the time to watch the video that was posted.

Your immediate reaction is to immediately devalue and defraud what she is saying without even hearing what she has to say.

That's incredibly academic and educated of you.

It would be like posting a video of Rand Paul on economics. Sure, he's presenting an unorthodox, opposing opinion, but he's still a crank.

 

[The Technomancer]

I love the LolChristinaSommers posts already. Meaning none of you bothered to even take the time to watch the video that was posted.

Your immediate reaction is to immediately devalue and defraud what she is saying without even hearing what she has to say.

That's incredibly academic and educated of you.

Aren't you the guy who's high on "evolutionary biology"? And yet you're seemingly not aware of "pattern recognition"?

 

[JDSN]

n “The End of Men”, a good book with a somewhat excessive title, Hanna Rosin notes that of the 30 occupations expected to grow fastest in America in the coming years, women dominate 20, including nursing, accounting, child care and food preparation. “The list of working-class jobs predicted to grow is heavy on nurturing professions, in which women, ironically, seem to benefit from old stereotypes,” writes Ms Rosin. And those old stereotypes are deeply ingrained in the minds of the men they marginalise; they no more see jobs centred on serving or caring as their sort of thing than society does.

Dat toxic masculinity.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers

No.

 

[Kuro]

smh at some people that still can't accept feminism. It's as simple as equality for women.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Well of course you didn't meet with hostility, you aren't a threat. Clearly Sommers is referencing hostility towards people who don't subscribe to the feminist narrative and are open about it.



No, they have been devastating to the middle end of the spectrum. Hence the shrinking middle class. America is quickly becoming a country of 1%ers and 99%ers with very little in between.

I've never met or known or heard of anyone dropping out of school or avoiding higher education altogether because of the "feminist agenda".

The disparity in grades begins in elementary and continues through HS, and is almost a completely different topic, even though it is deeply rooted in changing gender roles.

 

[Pryce]

I wonder what the cause of this is?

From what I've read, there's no clear answer. but what I keep hearing from people is:

1. Men are not going to college nearly as often as women has more to do with men going to trade school over colleges after high school rather than men not being as smart as women or them not wanting to learn new things.

2. Boys are doing worse in school overall (but still ahead in math and the sciences) because schools are tailored to girls far more than boys.

Could this possibly have the side effect of more men going towards higher paying but higher risk physical labor trade school routes, further widening the wage gap?

The top degrees for women relate to Health Professions, Public Administration, Education, Psychology, Foreign Languages, English, Communications and Journalism, Art and Performance and BIology. Lots of not so valuable degrees there.

If plumbers, electricians, oil field workers, etc. continue to be primarily men and the college trends, both on attendance by gender and most sought after degrees, continue then that must have some continued effect on the difference in wages between genders.

This is very possibly true. Men are going to college less, but still get more valuable degrees than women get. It still doesn't take into account as to why girls are outperforming boys across the board, but that's another topic.

 

[hoos30]

I love the LolChristinaSommers posts already. Meaning none of you bothered to even take the time to watch the video that was posted.

Your immediate reaction is to immediately devalue and defraud what she is saying without even hearing what she has to say.

That's incredibly academic and educated of you.

She's a pretty well known entity...the "Academic" version of Ann Coulter.

 

[The Technomancer]

The piece itself is...interesting. The longer it goes, the more it focuses on marriage, and I'm not sure if that's the focal point I would have chosen. But then, maybe thats a reflection of how, as one of them "middle class millennials" I'm not particularly concerned with marriage and I'm missing how important it is to the lower class experience

 

[Kevyt]

From what I've read, there's no clear answer. but what I keep hearing from people is:

1. Men are not going to college nearly as often as women has more to do with men going to trade school over colleges after high school rather than men not being as smart as women or them not wanting to learn new things.

2. Boys are doing worse in school overall (but still ahead in math and the sciences) because schools are tailored to girls far more than boys.



This is very possibly true. Men are going to college less, but still get more valuable degrees than women get. It still doesn't take into account as to why girls are outperforming boys across the board, but that's another topic.

Point number 2 though. What makes you think that?

Has anyone here felt that school is mostly tailored towards girls? I certainly never have, so I'm skeptic.

 

[mcfrank]

Well of course you didn't meet with hostility, you aren't a threat. Clearly Sommers is referencing hostility towards people who don't subscribe to the feminist narrative and are open about it.

You mean misogynists. I hope university is hard for them, because they need to wake up.

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

Oh what great times we live in where a man with a honest job can't meet the expectations of our glorious sophisticated women.

I wonder what our ladies would do if one day our sewer cleaner, plumber and construction worker would just stop doing their shitty underpaid jobs.

You guys do realize that we need people that do those fucking jobs, right? Our civilization would go very fast down the toilet without those "badly educated men". Forcing everyone into academic careers is a sure way into a Fallout-esque apocalypse.

 

[Pryce]

Point number 2 though. What makes you think that?

Has anyone here felt that school is mostly tailored towards girls? I certainly never have, so I'm skeptic.

I don't think it, I've just read studies on it. I'll see if I can find them.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I've never met or known or heard of anyone dropping out of school or avoiding higher education altogether because of the "feminist agenda".

The disparity in grades begins in elementary and continues through HS, and is almost a completely different topic, even though it is deeply rooted in changing gender roles.

Of course, and why would they? Most people are aware that getting an education = a better and higher paying job. You suck it up and go through with it.

If colleges are hostile towards women than why are they graduating at a higher rate then men?

Two possibilities, either the reason I mentioned above, or they aren't as hostile as the media makes them out to be. Or it's both.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh what great times we live in where a man with a honest job can't meet the expectations of our glorious sophisticated women.

I wonder what our ladies would do if one day our sewer cleaner, plumber and construction worker would just stop doing their shitty underpaid jobs.

You guys do realize that we need people that do those fucking jobs, right? Our civilization would go very fast down the toilet without those "badly educated men". Forcing everyone into academic careers is a sure way into a Fallout-esque apocalypse.

Did you read the article? The problem isn't that women don't like men doing those jobs, the problem is that those jobs are disappearing. Yes, even those jobs. Technology and economic change leads to consolidation and shrinking staffs. The article is completely about specifically the plight of those who relied on those "lower class" jobs

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Oh what great times we live in where a man with a honest job can't meet the expectations of our glorious sophisticated women.

I wonder what our ladies would do if one day our sewer cleaner, plumber and construction worker would just stop doing their shitty underpaid jobs.

You guys do realize that we need people that do those fucking jobs, right? Our civilization would go very fast down the toilet without those "badly educated men". Forcing everyone into academic careers is a sure way into a Fallout-esque apocalypse.

... This post kind of escalated quickly.

 

[Armaros]

... This post kind of escalated quickly.

He saw the word feminism in the title and pounced without reading the article.

 

[kirblar]

god... the worst thing about this is that I can totally believe it

This has been a very common complaint for a long time now among African-American women (that there are few/no "good men" out there), and the stats unfortunately back it up. Most people, regardless of ethnic group, end up marrying or in a relationship within that group.

The piece itself is...interesting. The longer it goes, the more it focuses on marriage, and I'm not sure if that's the focal point I would have chosen. But then, maybe thats a reflection of how, as one of them "middle class millennials" I'm not particularly concerned with marriage and I'm missing how important it is to the lower class experience

Given the importance of dual income streams in order to sustain a family at that income level, a lack of family units means that there's going to need to be support for children elsewhere to make up for it (the state.) I think the focus helps shed light on giving some sort of context to the changes in family structure over the past 50+ years.

 

[OrangeJulius]

Did you read the article? The problem isn't that women don't like men doing those jobs, the problem is that those jobs are disappearing. Yes, even those jobs. Technology and economic change leads to consolidation and shrinking staffs

There is a famous quote, "you can't outsource plumbing to China" Those jobs aren't shrinking, not yet anyway. You are referencing manufacturing jobs which are indeed becoming more mechanized and need less and less bodies.

The skilled trades will always be in demand until we have cylons. But we know how that one ends too.

 

[hoos30]

Technology and trade mean that rich countries have less use than they once did for workers who mainly offer muscle. A mechanical digger can replace dozens of men with spades; a Chinese steelworker is cheaper than an American. Men still dominate risky occupations such as roofer and taxi-driver, and jobs that require long stints away from home, such as trucker and oil-rig worker. And, other things being equal, dirty, dangerous and inconvenient jobs pay better than safe, clean ones. But the real money is in brain work, and here many men are lagging behind. Women outnumber them on university campuses in every region bar South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa. In the OECD men earn only 42% of degrees. Teenage boys in rich countries are 50% more likely than girls to flunk all three basic subjects in school: maths, reading and science.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[CornBurrito]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

Lol really?

 

[Desi]

Oh what great times we live in where a man with a honest job can't meet the expectations of our glorious sophisticated women.

I wonder what our ladies would do if one day our sewer cleaner, plumber and construction worker would just stop doing their shitty underpaid jobs.

? There are TONS of money in those jobs. More than being a paperpusher, just not glamorous.

 

[Zornack]

Point number 2 though. What makes you think that?

Has anyone here felt that school is mostly tailored towards girls? I certainly never have, so I'm skeptic.

There's a good bit of research on it. Here's one article. Basically even though boys do similar if not better work than girls they are graded worse for their rambunctious attitudes and their less visible strive to learn. These grading biases have long lasting effects.

 

[The Technomancer]

There is a famous quote, "you can't outsource plumbing to China" Those jobs aren't shrinking, not yet anyway. You are referencing manufacturing jobs which are indeed becoming more mechanized and need less and less bodies.

The skilled trades will always be in demand until we have cylons. But we know how that one ends too.

The trades are currently seeing a spike because they were abandoned in droves in the last couple decades and now all of the current workforce is retiring leaving a massive hole. But that doesn't make them immune to the grind of technology and economic consolidation. New tools will increase efficiency of labor which invariably leads to decreased employment. Hell, even college degrees aren't immune, the next two decades are going to see a massive contraction in the wages of computer programmers.

 

[cyclonekruse]

I wonder what the cause of this is?

At least two hypotheses have been given. One posits that schools have increasingly been "feminized." That is, schools are structured in a way that benefits how more girls learn at the cost of boys' learning. Specifically, schools require students to sit in their desks and pay attention and there is an emphasis on group learning instead of individual study. Boys, proponents of this hypothesis would say, are more likely to benefit from increased physical breaks (P.E. and/or recess) and working by themselves, preferably with their hands. These proponents also point to an anti-male bias in grading (which I believe has actually been shown to exist).

Others suggest a culture of toxic masculinity is to blame. It's not "cool" to be smart, especially in lower-class regions. So boys, in an attempt to be masculine, eschew homework and instead focus on sports (which is considered "cool"). This is perhaps fueled by a lack of positive male role models outside of sports stars, thanks to the relative absence of males in the role of parent or teacher (as the OP's article touches on).

 

[hoos30]

There is a famous quote, "you can't outsource plumbing to China" Those jobs aren't shrinking, not yet anyway. You are referencing manufacturing jobs which are indeed becoming more mechanized and need less and less bodies.

The skilled trades will always be in demand until we have cylons. But we know how that one ends too.

Yeah, but there is a ceiling on the number of plumbers and electricians that we need.

 

[OrangeJulius]

? There are TONS of money in those jobs. More than being a paperpusher, just not glamorous.

Indeed, the best way to earn six figures in America without a college degree, is to start a skilled trade when you are young and work your way through apprenticeship early.

Master plumbers, mechanics, construction workers, etc. All make upper class incomes. Like you said, they just aren't glamorous so elitists belittle them.

Some of the most well off families I've ever known have skilled tradesmen/women in them.

Yeah, but there is a ceiling on the number of plumbers and electricians that we need.

Uh, same is true for engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. That argument doesn't make sense.

There is a finite number of jobs for everyone.

 

[CornBurrito]

At least two hypotheses have been given. One posits that schools have increasingly been "feminized." That is, schools are structured in a way that benefits how more girls learn at the cost of boys' learning. Specifically, schools require students to sit in their desks and pay attention and there is an emphasis on group learning instead of individual study. Boys, proponents of this hypothesis would say, are more likely to benefit from increased physical breaks (P.E. and/or recess) and working by themselves, preferably with their hands. These proponents also point to an anti-male bias in grading (which I believe has actually been shown to exist).

Even if this were true, a lot of people who complain about the supposed feminization of education act like it has been done on purpose to disenfranchise males. I don't think the cutting back of recess/PE has anything to do with some nefarious plot by feminists to ruin men.

 

[kirblar]

At least two hypotheses have been given. One posits that schools have increasingly been "feminized." That is, schools are structured in a way that benefits how more girls learn at the cost of boys' learning. Specifically, schools require students to sit in their desks and pay attention and there is an emphasis on group learning instead of individual study. Boys, proponents of this hypothesis would say, are more likely to benefit from increased physical breaks (P.E. and/or recess) and working by themselves, preferably with their hands. These proponents also point to an anti-male bias in grading (which I believe has actually been shown to exist).

Others suggest a culture of toxic masculinity is to blame. It's not "cool" to be smart, especially in lower-class regions. So boys, in an attempt to be masculine, eschew homework and instead focus on sports (which is considered "cool"). This is perhaps fueled by a lack of positive male role models outside of sports stars, thanks to the relative absence of males in the role of parent or teacher (as the OP's article touches on).

I don't have the data handy, unfortunately, but the trend towards women doing better in higher education overall has existed for a very long time (dating back to close to the beginning of the century), and only got stunted due to the G.I. Bill sending so many men to school. Once the quantities of men using it went down, we saw the uneven distribution trends take hold once again. Given that women are the predominant drivers of education systems, the schools being geared towards a style of learning that women are better at isn't all that surprising.

 

[wildfire]

The education system, especially the universities, are now a hostile place for men. It's been for a while which is why men are avoiding it and checking out. I know I wouldn't go now, though I'd just do everything as possible online.

It's long, but watch & listen to Christina Sommers @ Hillsdale College from a couple days ago.
Victims, Victims Everywhere: Trigger Warnings, Liberty, and the Academy

I would say more men than women are fucking up in college and highschool and that's why they are checking out. The reason those fuckups occur are varied. If I was to attempt to solidify those various reasons into distinct groups I would say the problems are

• Presumption that education doesn't help them
• Overestimation that their social network among men is the only component necessary for success.
• Arrest rates for soft crimes
• Double edged ethnic based social strategies
• A desire to prove they can do things on their own

 

[OrangeJulius]

The trades are currently seeing a spike because they were abandoned in droves in the last couple decades and now all of the current workforce is retiring leaving a massive hole. But that doesn't make them immune to the grind of technology and economic consolidation. New tools will increase efficiency of labor which invariably leads to decreased employment. Hell, even college degrees aren't immune, the next two decades are going to see a massive contraction in the wages of computer programmers.

Explain what new tools on the horizon can come to your house and unclog your backed up plumbing, build you a new house with no man power, or wire said house with electricity?

Like I said earlier, cylons are a ways off.

Tools are ultimately wielded by humans until we have sophisticated A.I.

The skilled trades are going nowhere for the foreseeable future. The next century or two at the least.

 

[The Technomancer]

Explain what new tools on the horizon can come to your house and unclog your backed up plumbing, build you a new house with no man power, or wire said house with electricity?

Like I said earlier, cylons are a ways off.

Tools are ultimately wielded by humans until we have sophisticated A.I.

The skilled trades are going nowhere for the foreseeable future. The next century or two at the least.

You don't think that new tools will mean that a job that used to take eight people will now only take five? And then maybe three?

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

Did you read the article? The problem isn't that women don't like men doing those jobs, the problem is that those jobs are disappearing. Yes, even those jobs. Technology and economic change leads to consolidation and shrinking staffs. The article is completely about specifically the plight of those who relied on those "lower class" jobs

Yes, as a matter of fact I read the article yesterday and everyone with a half brain should know that those jobs are not 'disapearing'. Illegal employment with foreign workers is the de facto standard on construction places. If you honestly think that we are living in times where we need less plumper or teamster then I have no idea how to explain reality to you. Please change you avatar, you are not worthy of it.

? There are TONS of money in those jobs. More than being a paperpusher, just not glamorous.

Maybe if you are self-employed. My father was a construction worker, I don't remember him driving Porsche.