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Banjo-Threeie Debut Trailer!

McDragon said:
1162_0006.jpg


Kazooie looking sexy there.
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Banjo character design is pretty much shit but I remain optimistic.
 
KTallguy said:
When you introduce procedural physics and customization, you take the focus away from the mechanics and place it on the player's creativity. This is a double edged sword: You can use your head to figure out logical ways to approach problems, however the whole "proceduralness" of it may not provide a very consistently fun experience, because the physics are not consistent and you can't possibly polish the mechanics for every combination of parts.

So, yes it seems very experimental and it could be fun, but I feel like they'll need to be careful with it and ensure that it doesn't become some kind of game debug mode where you fuck with the mechanics and physics. Unless...that's where they're trying to go... but that's more like Pain than a platformer that allows the player to learn a smaller set of polished mechanics.

Graphic style, etc. looks great, but the framerate needs to be locked.
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one thing I've noticed about the physics is that they seem very simple and cartoon-like. They're not realistic at all. If you want to fly, you stick a propeller on yop of any vehicle and it flies. It doesn't look like you need to worry about aerodynamics, lift or anything complicated. Everything works in very simple terms that even Wile E. Coyote could make work.

I don't think there will be much experimenting with physics, so much as experiments with building a better mousetrap, in very simple (Incredible Machine-style) terms.
 
KTallguy said:
I agree that this is a platformer, but it's more of a platformer where you create the tools you need to get what you want.

So instead of mastering the double jump to get an item, you use the parts available to build something that allows you to get an equivalent ability.

I guess the only problem I have with this concept is that maybe people don't want to muck around in menus.

I see a lot of creative stuff coming from this game, but at the same time, I think part of the charm of a platformer is mastering very refined and polished mechanics and getting good at moving around the environment with those mechanics in a speedy yet controlled fashion.
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There are going to be previously made stock vehicles. It's up to the user if they want to manufacture something else.
 
Brashnir said:
one thing I've noticed about the physics is that they seem very simple and cartoon-like. They're not realistic at all. If you want to fly, you stick a propeller on yop of any vehicle and it flies. It doesn't look like you need to worry about aerodynamics, lift or anything complicated. Everything works in very simple terms that even Wile E. Coyote could make work.

I don't think there will be much experimenting with physics, so much as experiments with building a better mousetrap, in very simple (Incredible Machine-style) terms.
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Hrm, they've said that your vehicle can be too heavy or lopsided to work properly, or efficiently.
 
KTallguy said:
I guess the only problem I have with this concept is that maybe people don't want to muck around in menus.
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It sounds like you won't have to create stuff if you don't want to. From the Xbox.com page:

"Fun right out of the box: Don't worry if you aren’t the world’s greatest inventor or want to skip the workshop and get straight to the action, because Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts comes with a fully loaded experience right out of the box. Pre-built vehicles are included so you can jump right in and get started, with many more contraptions available for purchase throughout the adventure using the in-game currency system of musical notes."
 
Brashnir said:
one thing I've noticed about the physics is that they seem very simple and cartoon-like. They're not realistic at all. If you want to fly, you stick a propeller on yop of any vehicle and it flies. It doesn't look like you need to worry about aerodynamics, lift or anything complicated. Everything works in very simple terms that even Wile E. Coyote could make work.

I don't think there will be much experimenting with physics, so much as experiments with building a better mousetrap, in very simple (Incredible Machine-style) terms.
Click to expand...

Yes, and I totally get the Incredible Machine analogy.

But there will be inconsistency between how high you fly with a certain # of boosters on your back, how easy it is for your truck to overturn and spill out the items you've carefully collected, etc.

If the game is somehow able to inform the player why their design isn't working for any specific task, it may work. But this is the player deciding how high they can jump in Mario, basically. I have a feeling that everything will be too easy or too hard.

Edit:

Hmm, if there are stock vehicles that are the "standard" for any specific task, then could the player hypothetically improve them to the point where the game becomes too easy?

So it's less sandboxy, more "if you feel like mucking around, you can".
 
Ventrue said:
Hrm, they've said that your vehicle can be too heavy or lopsided to work properly, or efficiently.
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yeah, but just looking at the trailers, it seems like you'd have to go pretty extreme to break it, or do something obviously "not right", like making a car with 2 wheels on one side and nothing on the other. If you watch the video where Banjo slaps a propeller on top of his vehicle and flies, it's not centered and that vehicle obviously would not work in a realistic sense, but in the cartoon-physics Banjo world, it works fine.
 
watkinzez said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed this one. Rare doing a little console commentary, perhaps. :lol
screenshot_197346.jpg
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I wouldnt put it past them to have the play emporium red ring for lulz
 
KTallguy said:
Yes, and I totally get the Incredible Machine analogy.

But there will be inconsistency between how high you fly with a certain # of boosters on your back, how easy it is for your truck to overturn and spill out the items you've carefully collected, etc.

If the game is somehow able to inform the player why their design isn't working for any specific task, it may work. But this is the player deciding how high they can jump in Mario, basically. I have a feeling that everything will be too easy or too hard.
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as stated above, they've said that there are default vehicles which will give you the capability to complete all the tasks to get through the game, but to really excel at them and get top ranks, you'll have to experiment.
 
KTallguy said:
Yes, and I totally get the Incredible Machine analogy.

But there will be inconsistency between how high you fly with a certain # of boosters on your back, how easy it is for your truck to overturn and spill out the items you've carefully collected, etc.

If the game is somehow able to inform the player why their design isn't working for any specific task, it may work. But this is the player deciding how high they can jump in Mario, basically. I have a feeling that everything will be too easy or too hard.
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Basically I'll try and make a vehicle that is as verstitale as possible so I dont have to fuck around in the menus too much. I need me a boat/plane/car
 
Innotech said:
Banjo character design is pretty much shit but I remain optimistic.
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i dunno, i think it looks better than the old design, at least the eyes.

vnhzxy.jpg

that's Gregg Mayles btw.
 
HK-47 said:
I wouldnt put it past them to have the play emporium red ring for lulz
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At this point, I'd almost be surprised if it didn't RROD after you defeat that part.

EDIT - What would be really fucking funny would be if they also made the lights blink on your actual console at the same time.
 
HK-47 said:
Basically I'll try and make a vehicle that is as verstitale as possible so I dont have to fuck around in the menus too much. I need me a boat/plane/car
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And basically, that means that you're back to a single character that has a "move-set" that they utilize to overcome environmental obstacles. That's the definition of a platformer.

One thing is for sure. When this game comes out, they'll be youtube videos the next day showing a single design that just totally unbalances the game. Most games that let you customize heavily fall into this trap, because proper difficulty balance is nearly impossible.
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
How can you not love the bolded? Gregg has also said that there have been people that have had wheels on the roof to that when the vehicle has flipped over, you can still keep going.
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That makes it even better. :D

This new Banjo is beginning to grow on me.
 
The only thing that looks fun, aside from the token platforming, is flying. People trying to say that platforming in a car is no different to platforming on foot are amazing. I'm not writing it off entirely, but I thought a new Banjo-Kazooie would jump automatically to the top of my wishlist, now it's just some game I'll keep an eye on.

GauntletFan said:
Classic gameplay is intact
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Kazooie had no moves in the previous games? You had to haul Jiggys to some weird device in the originals?
 
Neither omg ! impressed, nor utterly disappointed (the only two possible options it seems). Not fund of the art style, but very interested in the mechanics. We shall see by te time it drops...
 
Gregg has also said that there have been people that have had wheels on the roof to that when the vehicle has flipped over, you can still keep going.
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So good.
Seriously..so good.
Rare is seriously opening up a whole new door that developers will undoubtedly walk through.
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
pinya11.jpg


You need to pay attention
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Sorry, I only went by what the person at Rare who is developing the game said in the movie you posted. Sounded like "we removed Kazooie's abilities" to me. I probably should have phrased it differently, but how can you say the classic gameplay is intact if that's the case?
 
KTallguy said:
And basically, that means that you're back to a single character that has a "move-set" that they utilize to overcome environmental obstacles. That's the definition of a platformer.

One thing is for sure. When this game comes out, they'll be youtube videos the next day showing a single design that just totally unbalances the game. Most games that let you customize heavily fall into this trap, because proper difficulty balance is nearly impossible.
Click to expand...


Well weight plays a factor too so that will at least make it tougher to design something that unbalances the game and to be honest if a player finds a way to find a vehicle that gets everything done then by all means that's their freedom to do so.

If the vehicle is too heavy then it might have disadvantages here and there, but then if it's too light it might be easy to toss around or have other disadvantages like maybe being more susceptible to a level with a strong wind. I think this a really good blueprint that Rare has for future Banjo games and I hope they keep this mechanic and expand on it because there's a lot of potential for it.

Good point dude, but maybe he means they removed some of the abilities that would've made the vehicles less of a factor in the game. That doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't given some other abilities or maybe he has some basic offensive style abilities whereas everything Banjo could do has been placed around the game world to be discovered and added to vehicles.
 
McDragon said:
i dunno, i think it looks better than the old design, at least the eyes.
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i think every aspect of banjo's new design is superior. kazooie is not as strong, but not necessarily bad.
 
Shadowlink123 said:
Thanks, VP 2 looks awesome and so does Banjo.

So Basically they worked 18 months making the game before thinking about changing the game?
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I think they might've been talking about the very first Banjo game?

Think he said something to the effect of they were making a game that only had Banjo in it then they decided to do something else and felt they could use the character and the result of scrapping that 18 month old work was the Banjo Kazooie that people know and love today.


I believe that's what he said.
 
CowboyAstronaut said:
Good point dude, but maybe he means they removed some of the abilities that would've made the vehicles less of a factor in the game. That doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't given some other abilities or maybe he has some basic offensive style abilities whereas everything Banjo could do has been placed around the game world to be discovered and added to vehicles.
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True, like I said I probably should have phrased it differently.

I don't know, I think it's just several things adding up for me. Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are two of my all-time favourite games; I love platformers, but they're almost non-existant now; I've been waiting eight years for a sequel. I think these are making the departure more difficult to swallow.

There are things I have a problem with, regardless. I don't think platforming in a car is anything like platforming on foot (just a simple jump up to a big island with plenty of room for a car is on par with some of the complex platforming in previous games? Really?) and the driving just simply doesn't look fun. It sounds like instead of completing objectives, it's more based around events like races and such, which I don't like the sound of.

But, on the other hand, creating a bunch of wildly different vehicles does sound like fun and at least there is some platforming. Maybe I'll cool down once we get more information, but I can only say I'm really disappointed right now. Innovation doesn't have to mean changing the core gameplay, which it definitely seems has happened here.

Anyway, everything has been argued about dozens of time and I'm not really adding anything new, so I'll just let this thread be and hopefully I'll come around in the future.
 
I'm not sold on the new character designs... I'm not really sure what look they're going for. This is going to sound bitter and nostalgic, but I really did like the simple style they had with the first two games. Oh well, maybe it'll grow on me. Otherwise though the vehicle building parts actually seem pretty sweet. If you can truly build whatever you want , like mount cannons facing downwards for extra vertical propulsion and crazy stuff like that, I think it could turn out to be pretty awesome.

And I don't know if this has been posted, but today's "Castle Vidcons" comic is startlingly relevant:

http://www.castle-vidcons.com/comics.html

:lol
 
CowboyAstronaut said:
I think they might've been talking about the very first Banjo game?

Think he said something to the effect of they were making a game that only had Banjo in it then they decided to do something else and felt they could use the character and the result of scrapping that 18 month old work was the Banjo Kazooie that people know and love today.


I believe that's what he said.
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The game in question was "Dream" - it looked amazing for an N64 game. You played as a Human, and the final Boss was a Giant, not a Witch.

Dream gradually transformed into something else - one of the NPCs from Dream was a Bear called Banjo, and he became the main character. Lots of other BK NPCs come straight from Dream, too, like the pirate dude and Bottles.
 
Dreavus said:
I'm not sold on the new character designs... I'm not really sure what look they're going for. This is going to sound bitter and nostalgic, but I really did like the simple style they had with the first two games. Oh well, maybe it'll grow on me. Otherwise though the vehicle building parts actually seem pretty sweet. If you can truly build whatever you want , like mount cannons facing downwards for extra vertical propulsion and crazy stuff like that, I think it could turn out to be pretty awesome.

And I don't know if this has been posted, but today's "Castle Vidcons" comic is startlingly relevant:

http://www.castle-vidcons.com/comics.html

:lol
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Pretty funny. I think he saw the video.

The vehicle tweaking is what is going to make the item collecting tolerable for me. I was tired of collecting whatchamacallits before platformers even went 3D.
 
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