It's not meta to assume a consistent logic in the game design.
It should be the baseline. Gafia meta would have to reach the point that it actually did this with consistency before a game made to punish it could make sense.
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Bar MAFIA |OT| There's Gonna Be Shots
- Thread starter Kawl_USC
- Start date
It's not meta to assume a consistent logic in the game design.
It should be the baseline. Gafia meta would have to reach the point that it actually did this with consistency before a game made to punish it could make sense.
The things I wanted in this game were neutrals pitted against each other in a different way than we've seen, one being potentially helpful to town (jailor) and the other being dangerous to all.
The other was a mixed alignment mason chat, unfortunately Barry knew to treat it with caution and it didnt go as planned. My hoped scenario was scum batsnacks influencing the Vigi kill to aid scum. Sadly, that never happened.
The most we did on the 'lol kawlbot' front was give misleading fluff names, like The Cop being a jailer and The two Glaswegians being different alignments.
The other was a mixed alignment mason chat, unfortunately Barry knew to treat it with caution and it didnt go as planned. My hoped scenario was scum batsnacks influencing the Vigi kill to aid scum. Sadly, that never happened.
The most we did on the 'lol kawlbot' front was give misleading fluff names, like The Cop being a jailer and The two Glaswegians being different alignments.
GAFia has had enough of meta discussions in scum hunting.
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It can be hard to figure out the logic behind the game design as a player because you've only headed down one path. That also assumes the games don't have any balance problems.
GAFia has had enough of meta discussions in scum hunting.
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It can be hard to figure out the logic behind the game design as a player because you've only headed down one path. That also assumes the games don't have any balance problems.
Gafias meta discussions in the past often devolved into talk about the crab scale which was problematic in a different way.
Assumptions should start with the game being balanced in a reasonable way, especially given the structure we have moved to as a community of having input from so many people.
If the game is poorly balanced the designers will be raked over the coals after the fact, but throwing out any consideration of role alignment implication on the off chance that the game is an unbalanced mess is just hamstringing yourself.
I had to write end game fluff 3 times (Day 7 expecting scum win, Day 9 Town win, Day 9 Scum win)
Here's The Town win fluff:
Yes, I took pleasure in a scum win resulting in a rejuvinated Bar and a Town win resulting in a desolate destroyed Bar.
Here's The Town win fluff:
Gorlak and nin1000 decided to put aside their many differences and engage in the most outrageously intense hug ever seen in a bar, where competition for this was very high. As they embraced each other and rubbed one another off, a whisper could be heard ‘It’s TTK! We’ve got ‘em!” What happened next, no one could have expected. Under intense scrutiny TTK started making weird noises and morphing into something else….. The smell of shit was heavy, because the two other patrons were absolutely terrified of what they were seeing in front of them.
“YOU WERE MEANT TO BE A TRACKER, AASHGASJAOOISAAA----”
nin1000 eventually sucked it up and retrieved the usefully placed flamethrower sitting next to the DJ booth, and set TTK alight. There was a deafening howl for a while, and then there was nothing.
The Bar was safe.
timetokill has been killed!
Two years later, The Bar was desolate, covered in crime scene tape and chalk body outlines.. Co-owned by Gorlak and nin1000, it was renamed The SCUMM Bar, and was a regular haunt for cool pirates everywhere. Grog was the special home brew, and meticulous pirate tests were the activity of the regular night. For a time, it was good.
Until it wasn’t.
Inevitably, tempers flared between the two men often, until it reached an incredible breaking point resulting in a murderous rampage of one Gorlak McCree, producing a dead nin1000, and a new batch of dead patrons that was actually noticed by the police this time. He’s been on the run for six months, without being caught. Glasgow was already a dangerous place, only made a little bit more dangerous due to the free running murderer.
A bloody, bullet hole ridden plaque on the door reads ‘In loving memory of our fallen comrades: TheExodu5, Crab, Mazre, Barrylocke, tomakasatnav, Lone_Prodigy, zeemumu, Dusk Soldier, MattyG, Ourobolous, SalvaPot, AbsolutBro, *Splinter and Timeaisis’. A heartening tribute to those that were lost to the Kingsley Wars, the beginning of the end.
Gorlak, nin1000 and the rest of Town have won the game alongside CornBurrito, heroic Arsonist!
Yes, I took pleasure in a scum win resulting in a rejuvinated Bar and a Town win resulting in a desolate destroyed Bar.
But it also probably shouldn't be the complete core of an argument. I'll concede that point.
And as I said in spec chat I feel for Gorlak because nins actions didn't make a lot of sense as a logical town player IMO. It's just unfortunate that as a player it's impossible to know which of those two descriptors does not apply to nin here.
And as I said in spec chat I feel for Gorlak because nins actions didn't make a lot of sense as a logical town player IMO. It's just unfortunate that as a player it's impossible to know which of those two descriptors does not apply to nin here.
Uh, once someone who knows how to unlock em does it.
Also the jailer had a chat, and the night 1 between splinter and kitty is glorious.
On the modkills,
I initially didn't want to do this after it being suggested to me by Gorlak, but we had no replacements left at the time, it was late in the game so to throw them in would be a big ask, and I also was frustrated at the already high count of replacements we had needed for this game.
Kawl and I felt a statement of intent was needed to show how damaging this stuff is, that's just how it goes sometimes.
Hopefully players will learn from this in future when signing up.
I initially didn't want to do this after it being suggested to me by Gorlak, but we had no replacements left at the time, it was late in the game so to throw them in would be a big ask, and I also was frustrated at the already high count of replacements we had needed for this game.
Kawl and I felt a statement of intent was needed to show how damaging this stuff is, that's just how it goes sometimes.
Hopefully players will learn from this in future when signing up.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i've opened the scum and tinder chats and jail :>
Thanks!
Barrylocke
Member
I suppose from a certain point of view, nin1000 was handing scum the win they should have gotten if ttk had voted like he was supposed to?
Maybe?
Idk. I am indeed mad that I neglected to reveal kyan as my shot target. It probably would have been useful. I had realized my mistake that night and planned to tell the town, but then the fake ids happened. Batsnacks was the only one that knew, and that was the day before we died.
Maybe?
Idk. I am indeed mad that I neglected to reveal kyan as my shot target. It probably would have been useful. I had realized my mistake that night and planned to tell the town, but then the fake ids happened. Batsnacks was the only one that knew, and that was the day before we died.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Yes leaving a town tracker alive until end game is not suspicious at all.
Blargonaut
Banned
Never Forever
Member
Oh, yay, this is nice! Two days late but it's here now. Thanks to everyone for a fun game, I can't help but feel a little underwhelmed that my team won by the grace of Town self-sabotaging at the eleventh hour and not merit, but I guess I'll take it. I feel bad for the rest of Town tbh
MattyG and Gorlak were the true KimYe to my Taytay, making me look cold and calculating and whipping out receipts
thanks to the runners for posting the Japanese bonus flavour for a Town win, I was curious to see what it was, I've said it a few times now but you two did an amazing job on making the Day Starts and Ends so much fun to read, very well done!
MattyG and Gorlak were the true KimYe to my Taytay, making me look cold and calculating and whipping out receipts
thanks to the runners for posting the Japanese bonus flavour for a Town win, I was curious to see what it was, I've said it a few times now but you two did an amazing job on making the Day Starts and Ends so much fun to read, very well done!
Your username is appropriate for how I feel about playing with nin in the future.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm back
Will post thoughts after sleepy time
Will post thoughts after sleepy time
You should always vote out nin day 1 apparently. Even if he is town, he could still suddenly decide to play for scum out of nowhere
Barrylocke
Member
The salt is real. But it's also understandable.
You should always vote out nin day 1 apparently. Even if he is town, he could still suddenly decide to play for scum out of nowhere
I intend to.
Nah, I don't really care that we lost so much as how we lost. I can handle nin's shenanigans during the game just fine (they can be both parts entertaining and infuriating), but gamethrowing is inexcusable.
My names Commander Shepard and this is my favorite post on the Citadel.
Nah dude you are totally the Kim to Gorlaks Kayne. Saving the day with receipts when the drama was darkest.Hear that Gorlak?! We KimYe now.
timetokill
Banned
timetokill
Banned
I TRUSTED YOU!
Matty, you really did make me wish
just for a moment
that I could be town with you
Blargonaut
Banned
timetokill
Banned
All right, gonna take a celebratory drive to work and then I'll be back to post some outgoing thanks and thoughts on my first MAFIA game
I'm starting to lean this way.
Yeah, I've been arguing for a long time that it's good to let players self-vote, because it can be useful to (to paraphrase Flame_AC in Bloodborne) "Get it over with and let everyone else move on the the next day." That being said, I think we've sort of cultivated an attitude of defeat in Gafia, where if more that a couple of people start voting on a person, that person just gives up and lets themselves die. We shouldn't be doing this. We should be fighting to the very end.
So yeah, I'm inclined to say no more self-votes.
EDIT: As a side note, I'm pretty sure self-votes didn't used to be allowed. I didn't think I could do it in Animal Crossing, but then Crab let me.
I think there is a strategic reason to allow for self-voting, but if it's gonna be used like this I'm all for removing that option.
Blargonaut
Banned
nin1000: the end of an era
Yeah, I've been for self voting, but I think they've mostly been used for rage quitting.
timetokill
Banned
Day 6:
Night 6: Timeaisis is dead
Maybe my favorite moment of the game. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!
----
I can't even tell you guys how much I wanted to kill myself after missing the winning vote on D7 or whatever it was. SO mad at myself. Then when NF flamed out I decided I'd better use my idiocy to prove I wasn't scum after all.
Fortunately with nin and Gorlak going at each other, and Gorlak being pretty reasonable, I figured I could convince him to go after nin after his incredibly strange voting and posting history. Gorlak, maybe I'm wrong and we'll probably never know, but I felt like I had you pretty convinced to vote nin out anyway, right?
After I had to claim so early I figured I would be dead well before the end of the game, but luckily a lot of roles began to claim and make themselves even bigger targets so I could glide by. At the end of the game, the inactives really helped because we could night kill them and not really generate any useful information for town to use.
Main thing I learned was how fast this game can turn. I figured kyan would be safe a LOT longer than he was, for instance, and I was surprised to see some posting styles (like nin's) stay out of the lynch conversations. As scum, I think we bit the bait too hard on a few claims but for the most part we had it figured.
Our biggest failing, in my opinion, was failing to find the spy. We had a TON of candidates we went through! When Ouro scum read 3/4 of us on the first day we figured he had to be the spy and was signaling us, and so on. There were a few people that would've possibly been killed earlier if we hadn't mistaken them for a potential spy.
Night 6: Timeaisis is dead
Maybe my favorite moment of the game. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!
----
I can't even tell you guys how much I wanted to kill myself after missing the winning vote on D7 or whatever it was. SO mad at myself. Then when NF flamed out I decided I'd better use my idiocy to prove I wasn't scum after all.
Fortunately with nin and Gorlak going at each other, and Gorlak being pretty reasonable, I figured I could convince him to go after nin after his incredibly strange voting and posting history. Gorlak, maybe I'm wrong and we'll probably never know, but I felt like I had you pretty convinced to vote nin out anyway, right?
After I had to claim so early I figured I would be dead well before the end of the game, but luckily a lot of roles began to claim and make themselves even bigger targets so I could glide by. At the end of the game, the inactives really helped because we could night kill them and not really generate any useful information for town to use.
Main thing I learned was how fast this game can turn. I figured kyan would be safe a LOT longer than he was, for instance, and I was surprised to see some posting styles (like nin's) stay out of the lynch conversations. As scum, I think we bit the bait too hard on a few claims but for the most part we had it figured.
Our biggest failing, in my opinion, was failing to find the spy. We had a TON of candidates we went through! When Ouro scum read 3/4 of us on the first day we figured he had to be the spy and was signaling us, and so on. There were a few people that would've possibly been killed earlier if we hadn't mistaken them for a potential spy.
I think there are legitimate reasons to allow self-voting (I did so in Bachelor Party when it got down to a few minutes and nobody was willing to hammer the vote needed for us to move on), but in regards to explicitly throwing the game they definitely should not be allowed. I'd be in favor of a blanket ban against self-voting, however.