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[EviLore]

I can't promise you're going to love it. Everyone's tastes are subjective, after all. But it does contain enough of the elements of what I think a well written, well edited, well directed, and well acted movie "should" contain.

I feel like a lot of people are going to be uncomfortable watching this movie for a variety of reasons. Maybe they don't give the satire the benefit of the doubt and interpret tongue-in-cheek scenes more harshly than needed. Maybe they're shocked at how traumatic the portrayal of the ugly side of human nature can be. Maybe they see some of the negative behavior exhibited by either Barbieland or the real world, which forces them to reflect on their own similar personal flaws. Maybe they just want to turn off their brain but don't like watching a movie that makes them think about the philosophy of the duality of mankind. Maybe they suffer from "eternally online syndrome" and when faced with a political message they don't like, must mentally circle the wagons to prevent "brainwashing", otherwise known as "thoughtfulness". I'm not saying that everyone that doesn't like this movie is hating the movie in bad faith. There are legit good faith reasons not to like this movie, but when the public discourse is so polluted as it is nowadays, it's nearly impossible to either like a thing or dislike a thing without people assuming you had to do so because you picked a side.

All I know is that if I'm being honest with myself, I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about the writing/acting/cgi/safeness/blandness of modern AAA blockbuster moviemaking but then when handed a movie like Barbie go on to say, "oh not like that though" all because it hurts my feelings or doesn't align with the narrative I like.

They took an IP about a fucking doll from the 50s and turned it into The Matrix for girls. That's impressive. I'll take "wtf am I watching" Barbie over "ooo 'splosions!" Transformers any day.

Yeah, that's the thing. I watched a clip of those Critical Drinker squad guys brainstorming how the Barbie movie should have been, and their ideas were terrible. They suggested that it should've been a safe and hollow film about generic girl empowerment, basically so as not to upset anyone. As a film critic and enthusiast, shouldn't you want filmmakers to aim for something more than that, even if it makes you uncomfortable and doesn't necessarily align with your worldview? Fine to criticize it, of course, either way, but it merits looking inward at your own visceral reaction to this stuff too.

The fact that this movie is creating more political controversy than that other movie about the most impressive effort in history to develop the most destructive weapon the Earth has ever known that instantly fucking vaporized 200,000 people in an effort to defeat one of the most ruthless empires to have existed on Earth is really telling about how stupid our internet discourse has become and how misaligned our emotional priorities are with what is actually important in reality.

Oh, certainly. Escapism is the catch-all solution to our problems in today's world. Endless streaming, endless scrolling, endless drug abuse, endless picking teams and bickering over nonsense.

 

[Saber]

The fact that this movie is creating more political controversy than that other movie about the most impressive effort in history to develop the most destructive weapon the Earth has ever known that instantly fucking vaporized 200,000 people in an effort to defeat one of the most ruthless empires to have existed on Earth is really telling about how stupid our internet discourse has become and how misaligned our emotional priorities are with what is actually important in reality.

I don't think that way though. Because the other movie is very clear about what exactly people should expect, not to mention is not actually for all ages, so theres a fundamental line that halts people. Meaning that the ones who are interested in watching this movie knows exactly what they are dealing with in this movie.

Barbie is the exact opposite. Every little girl would look at the logo and say "Daddy daddy, I want to watch this movie!". And I think this perfectly fine and normal if not for the movie being different from what is supposed to be. A little girl probably isn't expecting a vocal movie with a clear message, she just want to watch a silly Barbie movie. But this one has clear political intentions, masked with jokes here and there to make the illusion that people is watching a movie for kids.

 

[Rentahamster]

I watched a clip of those Critical Drinker squad guys brainstorming how the Barbie movie should have been, and their ideas were terrible.

Interesting, I'll check it out later. I did watch Critical Drinker's 9 minute review, and I'm not sure he's approaching the movie with a clear head because he gets some thematic things wrong about the movie.

"So you're a woman who wants to be a mother or a homemaker? Screw you fascist!" is directly contradicted by the fact that a weak familial bond between the mother and daughter is what partly precipitated the events in the movie, and the strengthening of that bond helps to lead to the resolution. (The dad is portrayed as a moron, but whatever) Also, that one of the concepts that plunges Barbie into an existential crisis is that a real world girl thinks that Barbie is a harmful, unrealistic portrayal of women, and that another character's appeal to balance is that the idea of Barbie doesn't have to be an uber professional Mary Sue, but also just a normal mom with a normal job who feels okay with merely existing.

 

[Tams]

But what did your GF and her friend think of it?

Clearly he acted like he loved it because he wanted that threesome.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't think that way though.

Think what way? That you think the political gravitas of Barbie is greater than Oppenheimer?

Because the other movie is very clear about what exactly people should expect, not to mention is not actually for all ages, so theres a fundamental line that halts people. Meaning that the ones who are interested in watching this movie knows exactly what they are dealing with in this movie.

You are suggesting that the discrepancy in activity is due to both the amount of people that saw each movie (more eyeballs on a movie should correlate proportionally to activity) and that Oppenheimer is a more straightforward movie? People aren't going to talk about Oppenheimer much because they got what they expected?

Barbie is the exact opposite. Every little girl would look at the logo and say "Daddy daddy, I want to watch this movie!". And I think this perfectly fine and normal if not for the movie being different from what is supposed to be. A little girl probably isn't expecting a vocal movie with a clear message, she just want to watch a silly Barbie movie. But this one has clear political intentions, masked with jokes here and there to make the illusion that people is watching a movie for kids.

Are you saying that most of the activity surrounding Barbie is because of a marketing bait and switch? It's possible. To be honest though, I personally prefer marketing that doesn't give away major thematic or plot spoilers in the trailers. I'm not sure I'm in a position to definitely know the mind of every little girl who wants to see this movie as well, what their rationale is, and whether or not they like or dislike a vocal movie with a clear message.

 

[Alebrije]

I can't promise you're going to love it. Everyone's tastes are subjective, after all. But it does contain enough of the elements of what I think a well written, well edited, well directed, and well acted movie "should" contain.

I feel like a lot of people are going to be uncomfortable watching this movie for a variety of reasons. Maybe they don't give the satire the benefit of the doubt and interpret tongue-in-cheek scenes more harshly than needed. Maybe they're shocked at how traumatic the portrayal of the ugly side of human nature can be. Maybe they see some of the negative behavior exhibited by either Barbieland or the real world, which forces them to reflect on their own similar personal flaws. Maybe they just want to turn off their brain but don't like watching a movie that makes them think about the philosophy of the duality of mankind. Maybe they suffer from "eternally online syndrome" and when faced with a political message they don't like, must mentally circle the wagons to prevent "brainwashing", otherwise known as "thoughtfulness". I'm not saying that everyone that doesn't like this movie is hating the movie in bad faith. There are legit good faith reasons not to like this movie, but when the public discourse is so polluted as it is nowadays, it's nearly impossible to either like a thing or dislike a thing without people assuming you had to do so because you picked a side.

All I know is that if I'm being honest with myself, I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about the writing/acting/cgi/safeness/blandness of modern AAA blockbuster moviemaking but then when handed a movie like Barbie go on to say, "oh not like that though" all because it hurts my feelings or doesn't align with the narrative I like.

They took an IP about a fucking doll from the 50s and turned it into The Matrix for girls. That's impressive. I'll take "wtf am I watching" Barbie over "ooo 'splosions!" Transformers any day.

The fact that this movie is creating more political controversy than that other movie about the most impressive effort in history to develop the most destructive weapon the Earth has ever known that instantly fucking vaporized 200,000 people in an effort to defeat one of the most ruthless empires to have existed on Earth is really telling about how stupid our internet discourse has become and how misaligned our emotional priorities are with what is actually important in reality.

These days noboby think a nuclear bomb will destroy their world...but a movie like Barbie with tons of agendas can do it...So it creates more controversy

 

[Rentahamster]

These days noboby think a nuclear bomb will destroy their world...but a movie like Barbie with tons of agendas can do it...So it creates more controversy

If that's the case, we have our priorities mixed up.

 

[Saber]

You are suggesting that the discrepancy in activity is due to both the amount of people that saw each movie (more eyeballs on a movie should correlate proportionally to activity) and that Oppenheimer is a more straightforward movie? People aren't going to talk about Oppenheimer much because they got what they expected?

Oppenheimer is clear about exactly what wants to show to people. The theme itself is controversial, but you already know beforehand what you're dealing with. Thats what I was saying.
Barbie on the other hand goes to the approach of "what if the Barbie the doll goes to the real world" premise. Pretty sure me and you already saw hundreds of takes about that, The Smurfs movie being an example of that.

Are you saying that most of the activity surrounding Barbie is because of a marketing bait and switch? It's possible. To be honest though, I personally prefer marketing that doesn't give away major thematic or plot spoilers in the trailers. I'm not sure I'm in a position to definitely know the mind of every little girl who wants to see this movie as well, what their rationale is, and whether or not they like or dislike a vocal movie with a clear message.

Yep. But I don't think it's difficult to imagine the mind of little girls who goes blindy watch the movie. I mean, here we had already alot of Barbie movies(3D and animated), the difference is that this one is a live action. I wouldn't say is different from say expecting other fictional characters going to see the real world.

 

[WoodyStare]

That montage fading in over the shot of her eye. More like Greta Godard Gerwig’s Goodbye to Language.

Really enjoyed this. Fast paced and funny for the most part. Loved how they got Scorsese’s cinematographer for this, it’s a beautiful looking film. I have a feeling we’ll be seeing more of Barbenheimer come awards season.

Oppenheimer 70MM IMAX tomorrow, cannot wait.

 

[Power Pro]

I have not walked out of a movie in a long time, but this movie did it again. Holy crap. I literally felt uncomfortable with how anti man this movie is, and after about 90 minutes, I just couldn't take it anymore.

It's not even funny, which this movie have should have been. It's message is so heavy handed, and feels like the entire point of the movie. It tricks you to watching it with it's admittedly good set design, and bright colors, but then any man in the audience is made to feel like a piece of shit. Fuck off Hollywood.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Just saw the trailer before indy 5(whixh was awesome by the way).

Are you serious here or trying to get other people to waste money watching an 84 year old man get stolen from a retirement home and physically abused for 2 hours?

 

[Fuz]

Barbie is the exact opposite. Every little girl would look at the logo and say "Daddy daddy, I want to watch this movie!". And I think this perfectly fine and normal if not for the movie being different from what is supposed to be. A little girl probably isn't expecting a vocal movie with a clear message, she just want to watch a silly Barbie movie. But this one has clear political intentions, masked with jokes here and there to make the illusion that people is watching a movie for kids.

It's the worst, most disgusting type of propaganda. Slimy as hell.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I guess Barbie is finally proving "go woke, go broke" is bullshit.

The anti-woke keep losing hard and for the record, I despise woke shit myself.

Depends. Media/products targeting predominatnly men who are seem more anti woke than women and it seems to hold up. That's the audience that says "go woke, go broke".

A colourful rollcoaster Barbie movie with big name actors which is peddling feminism - whilst hiding the fact in all the marketing up until release and sure it'll do very well. People go to watch it for Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling acting as Barbie and Ken.

It's also a movie that's been engineered by Hollywood to cut through to most audiences, teens, young adults and parents of all ages who want to watch it with their kids. So the failure rate was extremely low. Its a product designed to switch your brain off which tend to do well.

They've also succeeded by making the movie very controversial which will give it more attention than it deserves as it gets the side that wouldn't watch it to talk about it.

All in, it's perfect storm for it to rake in the dough, woke or not.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Depends. Media/products targeting predominatnly men who are seem more anti woke than women and it seems to hold up. That's the audience that says "go woke, go broke".

A colourful rollcoaster Barbie movie with big name actors which is peddling feminism - whilst hiding the fact in all the marketing up until release and sure it'll do very well. People go to watch it for Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling acting as Barbie and Ken.

It's also a movie that's been engineered by Hollywood to cut through to most audiences, teens, young adults and parents of all ages who want to watch it with their kids. So the failure rate was extremely low. Its a product designed to switch your brain off which tend to do well.

They've also succeeded by making the movie very controversial which will give it more attention than it deserves as it gets the side that wouldn't watch it to talk about it.

All in, it's perfect storm for it to rake in the dough, woke or not.

And it's not like Bud Light will suddenly be the #1 beer again or Witcher on Netflix getting its lost viewers back.

 

[Clear]

Its pretty simple; if you look at a movie through a political lens, then its always going to end up being judged primarily on its conformity to the viewer's politics.

Not helpful, and entirely predictable if you know where the reviewer stands.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Its pretty simple; if you look at a movie through a political lens, then its always going to end up being judged primarily on its conformity to the viewer's politics.

Not helpful, and entirely predictable if you know where the reviewer stands.

But there are also things like being very unsubtle, ham-fisted or overbearing in the delivery of the message that can drive viewers away.

 

[SF Kosmo]

“Barbie" offers up a lot of big ideas to ponder, but it frustratingly fails to take a stance on any potential solutions.”

Barbie plastic doll film docked points for failing to solve the world’s problems. Today in 2023.

Well, it is trying to be some kind of Boots Riley-esque absurdist social satire. Though I think this take misses that the moral of this one seems to be that there are no easy solutions and we all live imperfect lives in an imperfect system and find our own happiness.

Saw it this weekend with wife and daughter. I found it very entertaining and was struck by how ambitious it is. It's trying to do a lot and be a lot of things for a lot of people. It doesn't succeed at every one of them, and sometimes drops ideas as soon as it has them, but it sticks the landing on a few, and it's manages to deliver big laughs.

I liked how they wrapped up Ken's arc. The movie makes him the butt of a lot of jokes and takes him to some dark places but it's willing to give in the end, that whole Ken isn't entitled to Barbie's love, he is entitled to respect and kindness, and he's encouraged to find self worth in something other than a trophy mate.

It never really seems to take a side on the Barbie brand and its place within feminism, and I guess that's deliberate. It's a lot of things to a lot of people and the movie acknowledges all of them without ever really leaning into any one of them.

The worst part of the movie was Will Ferrell's story, which barely connected to the story, wasn't really funny, and didn't make a lot of sense. Could have been cut entirely or just limited to the beginning and end.

 

[Clear]

But there are also things like being very unsubtle, ham-fisted or overbearing in the delivery of the message that can drive viewers away.

The persuasiveness of any idea tends to correlate with its directness, so if a person has a bunch of preconceptions about a thing that weight towards a certain conclusion, it makes it difficult for any alternative interpretation to stand against it.

Examples: Danial Vavra once spoke non-critically of Gamergate, therefore Kingdom Come: Deliverance's adherence to historical demography is a right-wing dog whistle for racism. Neil Druckman once was supportive of Anita Sarkeesian, so replacing Joel with Abby as co-protagonist of TLOU2 wasn't a brave creative swerve, it was about replacing and emasculating traditional gruff white male lead.

These correlations intuitively colour every perception and argument the critic makes. However objectively observed the phenomenon, there's a "wall" in the way that distorts the path of plausibility. Hence a show like Velma, that's straight-up bad, and also concerns itself with "woke" characters and attitudes, is perceived as being especially bad BECAUSE its pushing a woke agenda. Never mind its frequently (badly) lampooning its characters for being super-woke, its a woke show therefore it must be presenting these tropes as positive, desirable traits to the audience!

Its the old meme about "see that little bitch eating crackers like she owns the place". Its often an exercise in justifying an underlying annoyance (even revulsion) in pursuit of making a larger point.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I have not walked out of a movie in a long time, but this movie did it again. Holy crap. I literally felt uncomfortable with how anti man this movie is, and after about 90 minutes, I just couldn't take it anymore.

It's not even funny, which this movie have should have been. It's message is so heavy handed, and feels like the entire point of the movie. It tricks you to watching it with it's admittedly good set design, and bright colors, but then any man in the audience is made to feel like a piece of shit. Fuck off Hollywood.

Nothing in that movie made me feel like a piece of shit, but so much of it spoke to experiences I know my wife (sitting next to me in the theater) has had. The point is to draw attention to a lot of the ways it's difficult to be a woman in society.

If you walked out before the end, you missed the point of the movie. It's a coming of age arc, it's about having the naive and idealized worldview of a child, having that naivete destroyed when it comes into contact with the messy and imperfect challenges of reality, and ultimately choosing to live in reality anyway and leaving the idealized fantasy behind.

That's relatable. It's something we all go through in our own way. And yes this movie is overwhelmingly focused on the female experience of that, it's a fucking Barbie movie, but even Ken gets the ending he deserves and some acknowledgement and respect in the end.

Nothing in that movie made me feel like a piece of shit as a man (Ok, maybe when Ken started mansplaining Pavement), but a lot of it spoke to real experiences I know my wife has had, and I'm sure whatever woman you saw the movie with has had as well. It's okay to do that without giving equal time to men.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The persuasiveness of any idea tends to correlate with its directness, so if a person has a bunch of preconceptions about a thing that weight towards a certain conclusion, it makes it difficult for any alternative interpretation to stand against it.

Examples: Danial Vavra once spoke non-critically of Gamergate, therefore Kingdom Come: Deliverance's adherence to historical demography is a right-wing dog whistle for racism. Neil Druckman once was supportive of Anita Sarkeesian, so replacing Joel with Abby as co-protagonist of TLOU2 wasn't a brave creative swerve, it was about replacing and emasculating traditional gruff white male lead.

These correlations intuitively colour every perception and argument the critic makes. However objectively observed the phenomenon, there's a "wall" in the way that distorts the path of plausibility. Hence a show like Velma, that's straight-up bad, and also concerns itself with "woke" characters and attitudes, is perceived as being especially bad BECAUSE its pushing a woke agenda. Never mind its frequently (badly) lampooning its characters for being super-woke, its a woke show therefore it must be presenting these tropes as positive, desirable traits to the audience!

Its the old meme about "see that little bitch eating crackers like she owns the place". Its often an exercise in justifying an underlying annoyance (even revulsion) in pursuit of making a larger point.

OK so you were talking about ideologically possessed people who're quick to dismiss opposing views and not about the more open minded people who still thought the movie is heavy handed with its message to the point it was dragging the movie down.

 

[SlimySnake]

I guess Barbie is finally proving "go woke, go broke" is bullshit.

The anti-woke keep losing hard and for the record, I despise woke shit myself.

Thats because most of the woke stuff in the movie was kept under wraps. The trailer didnt hint at any of this feminist/anti-men agenda and the reviewers mostly kept mum about it. it's only gained traction after the movie came out and its too late for it now.

Also, women dont give a shit about this anti woke stuff. its mostly a male thing. Women have embraced a lot of these woke causes and they have yet to be bitten by them. The gender sports stuff is the only thing thats impacting them directly, but even there most of them dont seem to care. Most women I know agree with this messaging anyway. I cant tell you how many tiktoks im sent about how men are lazy, husbands are useless and how women are better off without their man. They probably loved it and ate it up.

What bugs me the most about this is that young girls are watching this and they are being brainwashed into thinking any man they meet after growing up is going to be a buffoon who is there only to control them. It's funny, when men make movies about their toys, the main concern is to get the right actor and the characterization (Batman doesnt KILL!). There is no agenda in James Bond or comic book movies.

 

[F0rneus]

I guess Barbie is finally proving "go woke, go broke" is bullshit.

The anti-woke keep losing hard and for the record, I despise woke shit myself.

*some light to mid spoilers ahead*





I loved the movie and I can tell you...It's a huge parody of 90s era films (with tons of 90s references. NSync being revealed as a bunch of Allans was so good). The entire patriarchy thing is literally played for laughs. They might have said patriarchy over 300 times in the movie, to hammer on the point that it's all a big joke.

The movie's actual message is that Ken turns mean and wants to take over Barbieland after being in the real world (and oh man he's so bi lol. He swooned at seeing men kissing lol. And gets kissed by men in his song montage!) and realizing that Barbie has been treating him like shit through their entire relationship. And he doesn't want to take over Barbieland. He just wants Barbie to treat him nice for once. That's it. That's the message of the movie.

And lol at Helen Mirren as the narrator, breaking the fourth wall and calling out Greta Gerwig for her hypocrisy lol. It's that kind of film.

It's bubbly, it's pink, it's beautiful to look at, Ryan Gosling steals the show, and the ending joke was utterly perfect.

Last time I saw a movie get that much laughs in a theater was American Pie 2.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Also, women dont give a shit about this anti woke stuff. its mostly a male thing.

IIRC I heard Jordan Peterson quote a stat that generally women are more liberal than men and they were more prone to becoming SJWs than the men.

 

[Fake]

Well, as I expected there was a fight inside the Barbie theater here in Brazil. Already had one when that horrible last movie of Star Wars release on Brazil.

Após briga em sessão de 'Barbie' viralizar, mulher explica o motivo: 'Eu liguei para a polícia'; vídeo

Jovem que foi empurrada e caiu diz que discussão começou por conta de criança que 'não se comportou no cinema'

oglobo.globo.com

A woman get mad because as she said, one of the other woman was behaving bad while the movie was going, so was a fight while the barbie credits was rolling and got viral on Twitter I guess. The other woman said her child was insulted, her kid was asking because there are things on the movie that her kid don't understand, so thats why she was asking so many times inside the theater. They call the police.

 

[Clear]

OK so you were talking about ideologically possessed people who're quick to dismiss opposing views and not about the more open minded people who still thought the movie is heavy handed with its message to the point it was dragging the movie down.

I've got no interest in the movie beyond curiosity about how its going to be received due to all the culture-war stuff.

As I kinda inferred, to me its all about the way people determine what's good faith and what's bad faith based mostly on preconceptions. And when that gets muddied anything taking an ironic or deconstructionalist approach is almost pre-ordained to be embraced or rejected based on this emotional disposition.

I wouldn't pin it down exclusively to ideological possession though (although those types are the worst offenders), I think people can just get weary and cynical when the feel like a message is being sent at them continually and heavy-handedly.

 

[SlimySnake]

IIRC I heard Jordan Peterson quote a stat that generally women are more liberal than men and they were more prone to becoming SJWs than the men.

yeah, i heard something about them being more agreeable and thus more susceptible to marketing but ive been married for over a decade and they are anything but agreeable. lmao

 

[InterMusketeer]

Nothing in that movie made me feel like a piece of shit as a man (Ok, maybe when Ken started mansplaining Pavement), but a lot of it spoke to real experiences I know my wife has had, and I'm sure whatever woman you saw the movie with has had as well. It's okay to do that without giving equal time to men.

The cultural zeitgeist right now is to make everything inclusive and appealing to everyone. Why is Barbie suddenly exempt from this?

Many male-focused franchises had to make way for women. From Star Wars to He-man to Ghostbusters, you name it. I'd argue any of those properties was more universally appealing than Barbie from the start, and yet they had to change to be more inclusive.

Maybe it's unfair to put such responsibility on the shoulders of a Barbie film, but the difference in treatment sticks out like a sore thumb. When are men getting a big blockbuster movie about how shit it sometimes is to be a guy nowadays?

 

[SF Kosmo]

Many male-focused franchises had to make way for women. From Star Wars to He-man to Ghostbusters, you name it.

The Ghostbusters reboot was disastrous and they walked that back. Star Wars I don't even understand what you mean, it was always a franchise with strong female characters that appealed to everyone.

And He-Man didn't so much make way as release a companion line for girls. That's more like how Polly Pocket led to Mighty Max.

When are men getting a big blockbuster movie about how shit it sometimes is to be a guy nowadays?

They did, it was called Fight Club, although a lot of men missed the point, unfortunately.

But Barbie has the most female-leaning audience of any blockbuster movie in history, and it knows it. It's not there to address male grievance and if it tried it would probably muddy the film's intent.

And to be fair the movie does address the way toxic masculinity harms men in the third act, how these men base their entire egos around their sexual prowess and how they collapse into despair and anger without female validation, and that's a very real thing that a lot of men struggle with. And it gives Ken a moment at the end to express all that sadness and angst and Barbie apologizes to him. So there is some of that in there, but if you wanted more, I think this is the wrong movie...

 

[tmlDan]

^ Says he enjoyed it overall, with reservations. Ryan Gosling being the standout that saves a lot of the tepid humor from the script. Gets beaten over the head with "the patriarchy" in the later stages of the film, and it's clearly not made for him, etc.. but not enough to ruin it.

This is pretty much how i felt, the comedy was also sub-par, the jokes should always land and in most comedies there's NEVER silence....i would probably move my opinion more of in the "it was made for netflix, it's pretty bad" type of film....it did not feel like a theatrical release to me. But again, this movie was never targeted towards me.

 

[SF Kosmo]

the jokes should always land and in most comedies there's NEVER silence...

The theater I was at had everyone laughing at the jokes.

But the second part of your sentence there is head-scratching. All great comedies still have moments of silence. Comedies still have to be movies. They need to have story beats that actually land and character development and all of that. They can't and shouldn't be funny every second.

 

[tmlDan]

The theater I was at had everyone laughing at the jokes.

But the second part of your sentence there is head-scratching. All great comedies still have moments of silence. Comedies still have to be movies. They need to have story beats that actually land and character development and all of that. They can't and shouldn't be funny every second.

i've never been in a theatre where there is complete silence when a joke occurs, yes it may not land for some people but the whole theatre? that's weird of you to say.

As i read more of what you're saying it makes no sense, did you watch the video i was referring my comments towards? seems you're confused.

 

[SF Kosmo]

i've never been in a theatre where there is complete silence when a joke occurs, yes it may not land for some people but the whole theatre? that's weird of you to say.

As i read more of what you're saying it makes no sense, did you watch the video i was referring my comments towards? seems you're confused.

I'm not talking about jokes not landing, I am saying not everything in a comedy needs to be a joke.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

They did, it was called Fight Club, although a lot of men missed the point, unfortunately.

I don't know if I'd call Fight Club a blockbuster. More like cult hit. It's fantastic though.

 

[tmlDan]

I'm not talking about jokes not landing, I am saying not everything in a comedy needs to be a joke.

Did i say that? I said if a joke doesn't land, complete silence in the theatre never happens during a well written comedy. Jokes may not hit for everyone but if its silent then the comedy is not a good comedy, it happened several times in my theatre as well.

You are still not focusing on the main point. I guess good for you that they laughed in yours.

 

[HoodWinked]

Its funny cause the actors strike and the writers strike likely helped this movie do much better than expectations. Even the embargo was quite late.

Writers strike meant no late night show promos and actors strike meant no actors promoting it and turning off audiences.

Even the petty studio execs that intentionally tried sabotaging both films by releasing them on the same weekend somehow look like geniuses. WB tried hurting Nolan for leaving them by releasing Barbie simultaneously and Universal gave Nolan as much as he wanted to make the film and promoted it heavily.
And due to a stroke of luck they captured the viral marketing of the odd juxtaposition.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Did i say that?

Obviously what you intended to say was unclear from your choice of phrasing, let's move on.

I said if a joke doesn't land, complete silence in the theatre never happens during a well written comedy. Jokes may not hit for everyone but if its silent then the comedy is not a good comedy, it happened several times in my theatre as well.

There were hushed silences in the mushy monologues toward the end, but the jokes got laughs in my theater.

I saw it in a hood theater known for raucous audiences, because that's where I like to see these sorts of "event" movies, so ymmv.

 

[Doczu]

All right bros, movie starts in 20 minutes, wifey chose Barbie after i took her to see Evil Dead as a form of revenge. Idk, maybe i'll like it. I need to download a new "literally me" persona for this summer and Ryan always delivers

 

[InterMusketeer]

The Ghostbusters reboot was disastrous and they walked that back. Star Wars I don't even understand what you mean, it was always a franchise with strong female characters that appealed to everyone.

And He-Man didn't so much make way as release a companion line for girls. That's more like how Polly Pocket led to Mighty Max.

The Ghostbusters reboot still happened (its success is irrelevant), Star Wars was marketed with the message that the new films finally had female role models (implying the previous ones didn't) and He-Man's Netflix show hardly features him in favor of Teela.

But this is not about those examples but the greater trends in the industry. Do you disagree that those trends exist?

But Barbie has the most female-leaning audience of any blockbuster movie in history, and it knows it. It's not there to address male grievance and if it tried it would probably muddy the film's intent.

That never stopped them before.

And to be fair the movie does address the way toxic masculinity harms men in the third act, how these men base their entire egos around their sexual prowess and how they collapse into despair and anger without female validation, and that's a very real thing that a lot of men struggle with. And it gives Ken a moment at the end to express all that sadness and angst and Barbie apologizes to him.

I'd argue toxic masculinity is a subject that mostly interests women, not men. The message about female validation falls flat for me too. Humans are a socials species. We need validation, most of us want relationships. Just telling men to stop caring so much isn't a helpful message.

So there is some of that in there, but if you wanted more, I think this is the wrong movie...

Wish they'd say that more often when a niche genre is suddenly made to be universally appealing. And that's the point I was trying to make.

 

[LQX]

We have adult men out here burning Barbie Dolls....what a time to be alive.

 

[Shouta]

Interesting, I'll check it out later. I did watch Critical Drinker's 9 minute review, and I'm not sure he's approaching the movie with a clear head because he gets some thematic things wrong about the movie.

"So you're a woman who wants to be a mother or a homemaker? Screw you fascist!" is directly contradicted by the fact that a weak familial bond between the mother and daughter is what partly precipitated the events in the movie, and the strengthening of that bond helps to lead to the resolution. (The dad is portrayed as a moron, but whatever) Also, that one of the concepts that plunges Barbie into an existential crisis is that a real world girl thinks that Barbie is a harmful, unrealistic portrayal of women, and that another character's appeal to balance is that the idea of Barbie doesn't have to be an uber professional Mary Sue, but also just a normal mom with a normal job who feels okay with merely existing.

I wouldn't even say the Dad was a moron. Goofy? Definitely but considering that he was trying to learn a new language to better communicate with his wife and daughter in his only appearances, it's actually kind of positive. It's an easy thing for a Dad to say he'd do but he was actually attempting it.

 

[Marvel14]

That's 43 mins of his life he ain't getting back...and if it's as despicable as he says it ain't worth his time.

 

[SF Kosmo]

But this is not about those examples but the greater trends in the industry. Do you disagree that those trends exist?

I think there is a trend to try to market films to a more diverse audience than the traditional one which is historically about 60% male, but I would also say that a majority of movies are still male-centric and audience makeup reflects that, so I think it's disingenuous to act as if the male audience is being "abandoned" in a meaningful way.

I'd argue toxic masculinity is a subject that mostly interests women, not men.

I think you probably don't know what that term means then (and you'd be forgiven since it does get misused often).

"Toxic masculinity" refers cultural standards that place emotionally unhealthy expectations on men. It is toxic to the men who internalize it. That is the meaning of that term as it was originally conceived and applied in gender studies. People might misuse the term to refer to "dudes being toxic" in some vernacular sense but that's not what I mean when I say it.

Barbie, FWIW, is very much a movie about toxic femininity, and Barbie has long been a symbol of that. The movie address this in a very direct way, it talks about the impossible and often contradictory expectations society places on women. So a movie that does the same for men would, in fact, very much be a movie about toxic masculinity.

The message about female validation falls flat for me too. Humans are a socials species. We need validation, most of us want relationships. Just telling men to stop caring so much isn't a helpful message

I think that's an oversimplification of that message. I think the message here is that need or desire doesn't entitle you to someone else's affection, you have to bring something to the table, so go work on yourself and become a whole ass person, and the next time you meet a woman you like, you might have more to offer in return.

And look, my biggest complaint about this movie is that it takes on a lot, it isn't focused on a single issue or point, it's messy, and sometimes feels unsure of itself. So I get that it can be a bit of a Rorschach test for culture critics. I'm just telling you what I took away from it.

Wish they'd say that more often when a niche genre is suddenly made to be universally appealing. And that's the point I was trying to make.

I think the movie was clearly marketed toward women. Men can enjoy it, but you have to meet it on those terms.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

That's 43 mins of his life he ain't getting back...and if it's as despicable as he says it ain't worth his time.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It's really silly for 40 year old man to be doing that to say the least. On the other hand it's only 43 minutes of his life and he's rich. He can do pretty much anything he wants and probably goes on vacation out of the country at least twice a year. So while people are mocking him for looking stupid, he's raking in tons of money, has a wife and kids and probably a nice house and a lot of things that a lot of people mocking him don't have. So trust me he doesn't care.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Now this is the coolest thing to come out of Barbie.

 

[Marvel14]

I'm not disagreeing with you. It's really silly for 40 year old man to be doing that to say the least. On the other hand it's only 43 minutes of his life and he's rich. He can do pretty much anything he wants and probably goes on vacation out of the country at least twice a year. So while people are mocking him for looking stupid, he's raking in tons of money, has a wife and kids and probably a nice house and a lot of things that a lot of people mocking him don't have. So trust me he doesn't care.

You're right of course....but his extended play fake disgust to garner views and clicks for something he doesn't value is a bit rich..even for him.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I think there is a trend to try to market films to a more diverse audience than the traditional one which is historically about 60% male, but I would also say that a majority of movies are still male-centric and audience makeup reflects that, so I think it's disingenuous to act as if the male audience is being "abandoned" in a meaningful way.

I'm not trying to act like that. I just find it interesting that it seems to be a one-way street. Male-centric properties are pushed to become more inclusive, but those expectations don't exist for female-centric ones like Barbie.

I think that's an oversimplification of that message. I think the message here is that need or desire doesn't entitle you to someone else's affection, you have to bring something to the table, so go work on yourself and become a whole ass person, and the next time you meet a woman you like, you might have more to offer in return.

This is an entirely different message IMO, which boils down to "you're not trying hard enough so you don't deserve the very basic thing that every human being wants."

Rather than toxic masculinity, I think this kind of individualism, and a sort of transactional approach to relationships (like you're describing here) is what's making people feel lonely and unhappy.

 

[Doczu]

I've made it till the end. Nice scenerey, costumes and i did like the choreography of the dance off at the end and... That's all.

The message of the movie didn't click with me, all the guys were shown as goofy comedic relief (at best).

I wouldn't even say the Dad was a moron. Goofy? Definitely but considering that he was trying to learn a new language to better communicate with his wife and daughter in his only appearances, it's actually kind of positive. It's an easy thing for a Dad to say he'd do but he was actually attempting it.

Sure, but he was put down by his wife and daughter at the end. Another weak father figure. Well, he should have driven his car better, then maybe his wife wouldn't have to "lessons" from someone else (WINK WINK DAUGHTER YOU KNOW WHAT MAMMA MEANS)

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I saw the movie this morning, and here are some of my thoughts before I read other reviews and taint my experience with the opinions of others.

If you were to ask me if I thought that megacorp Mattel would greenlight a Barbie movie about their doll escaping The Matrix and having an existential crisis about the nature of her reality and what it is to be an emotionally multi-dimensional human tainted with negative feelings about death and sadness, I wouldn't have believed you.

But here we are.

I have to say, it works. When other brand owners like Hasbro churn out CGI-shitfest after shitfest like Transformers with hardly any meaningful character development or dimensionality, and a contrived plot that revolves around a stupid McGuffin fetch quest that ends in a cliche skybeam with explosions all over the screen, Barbie is by comparison a breath of fresh air wrapped in real practical sets/effects that actually speaks to the tragedy and frailty of the human condition. Whether the movies message resonates with you, or makes you vomit, is another thing entirely, but I can't deny that this movie is comprised of all the core components I want to see in movies, even if I may not necessarily vibe with the overall theme. After all, I'm not little girl that plays with dolls. However, this movie is deceptively much more than a soulless vehicle for merchandising in that it has solid writing, solid acting, solid production values, great practical set design, good cinematography, and good directing. To be clear however, I'm not saying this movie ISN'T a vehicle for merchandising. It totally is. But it could have been a brain-dead corporate sellout cash grab. Instead it's more like a clever commercial wrapped in a good movie to reframe the narrative about what the role and message of Barbie in 2023 could be and why even dangerhairs can find something about Barbie to value. It's clever marketing jiu-jitsu. I have to commend Mattel for approving a script this unorthodox and risky instead of taking the safe, bland route.

Instead of a plot synopsis and review, I think I'll format this post in a series of questions and answers that I think might be useful, from what I have briefly skimmed in this thread on the way to the "post reply" button.

Does this move overuse CGI? No, it does not. It utilizes many practical sets and effects, with some CGI, and it does feel like the actors are in these environments and not on a green screen.

Does this movie have character development? Yes. There are multiple characters with dynamic character arcs whose actions are guided by motivations that make sense. Mostly. When they don't make sense, it's most likely for the sake of comedy/satire/hyperbole.

Does the plot make sense and is it structured logically? Yes. One of my main criticisms of films nowadays is how story beats aren't connected to each other and it's just a bunch of scenes with no narrative flow. Matt Stone and Trey Parker from South Park once made an interesting observation on how an engaging script should flow - that each scene should be connected not by "and then", but rather "but" or "therefore". Here they are explaining how it works:




Barbie exists in an alternate reality where everything is perfect. But she starts having thoughts about death and sadness. Therefore she ventures to the real world to fix it. But she soon realizes that the real world is not what she expected and that she is not the saviour of all women as she thought she was. Therefore Barbie undergoes a lot of harsh trials and emotionally traumatic experiences before she ultimately comes to a resolution as a newly realized independent being.

Does the movie contain a lot of references to other pop culture? Yes. 2001, Monty Python, The Matrix, Justice League, Saving Private Ryan, West Side Story, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, are some that were either strongly or vaguely referenced. You will either laugh or cringe at the Justice League joke. It has a lot of layers.

Is the acting good? Yes. The main actors all emote very well and have good chemistry together. The serious moments are serious and the silly moments are silly. The actors overall do a good job of conveying the levity or the gravitas of whatever the scene calls for.

Is the movie funny? Hit or miss. I had a few laughs, but not the bellylaugh type. More of a sensible chuckle, I see what u did thar laugh.

Is Barbie basically Misandry: The Movie? No, I don't think so. The themes of the movie are more complex than that and speak to what happens when the oppressed become the oppressor and vice versa. It speaks to what could happen to an ignorant second class populace, living in a world designed specifically to oppress them in that way, that receives the gift of the fruit of knowledge and then acts upon their newfound information. Are there caricatures of human behavior? Yes, but that is a vehicle for the satire and parody of the medium. From the naive dolls' point of view (both Barbie and Ken) the extreme portrayal of "real life" is probably how they would interpret it. The message isn't "men are bad". The message is more along the lines of "life is hard, and unfair institutionalized social constructs can be overcome. An existence that is contains pain and suffering but is free and with purpose can be more enticing than a life that is pleasurable yet static and ignorant. Both the men and women evolve to become more than they were at the start of the movie, aside from the extremely silly characters like the CEO.

What a thoughtful little rodent you are.

The hamsters I had mostly just performed bodily functions and committed fraternal cannibalism.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I'm not trying to act like that. I just find it interesting that it seems to be a one-way street. Male-centric properties are pushed to become more inclusive, but those expectations don't exist for female-centric ones like Barbie.

It's not a two way street because the intention is to grow the audience, not shrink it. The studios see the fact that their releases are limited because they're ignoring a key demographics that makes up 50% of the population but only 40% of the audience, directing resources to tap into that makes sense. But going the other way doesn't.

I think it's important to understand that studios only care about money. Diversity initiatives exist to more efficiently exploit an audience, not because of some moral interest in representation. Audiences might care about those things but studios do not.

This is an entirely different message IMO, which boils down to "you're not trying hard enough so you don't deserve the very basic thing that every human being wants."

Rather than toxic masculinity, I think this kind of individualism, and a sort of transactional approach to relationships (like you're describing here) is what's making people feel lonely and unhappy.

It's a cynical word to use, but relationships are transactional, man. You're never entitled to someone else's love, and no one is owed yours. It has to be earned, and continues to be earned for the duration of the relationship. Just saying "I'm lonely and I feel worthless without you," is not a reason a woman should love you.

And it's a sad reality that men often internalize entitlement rhetoric and end up hopelessly isolated when that rhetoric doesn't comport with reality. It might sound like tough love, but "Love yourself, and learn to be a whole person on your own" is some of the best advice you can give to someone who wants to find a mate.

 

[Catphish]

Endless streaming, endless scrolling, endless drug abuse, endless picking teams and bickering over nonsense.

I scored 2/5.