Baten Kaitos...does this game suck?

S

Speevy

Banned
I was really impressed when olimario first showed the art for this game. I would check back every day just to see if it would get a US release.

But the prerendered graphics aren't very impressive, and the gameplay itself just looks so bland. IGN swears this is one of the Cube's top 5 of 2004, but I just don't see it anymore. It seems as though all this game has is a few interesting screenshots/pieces of artwork.

I'm afraid this will get 7's from most sites.
 
7's? I'm predicting in the 8's on average. It seems that Tales of Symphonia will be the better game of the two Namco RPGs
 
Speevy said:
I was really impressed when olimario first showed the art for this game. I would check back every day just to see if it would get a US release.

But the prerendered graphics aren't very impressive, and the gameplay itself just looks so bland. IGN swears this is one of the Cube's top 5 of 2004, but I just don't see it anymore. It seems as though all this game has is a few interesting screenshots/pieces of artwork.

I'm afraid this will get 7's from most sites.
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So how far are you into the game?
 
My current impression is that it looks great, is fun to play, has a kinda boring story and cast, and the music is a mixed bag. Some of the pieces are really rad, but some other critical tunes -- like the default battle theme -- are weak. If you really enjoyed the Chrono Cross art style, definitely jump on it. I'm not sure it's up to CC in the weirdo plot department, though.

Kaitos versus Symphonia is an interesting comparison. Currently I like BK better, but I liked Symphonia a bit less than the conventional wisdom, I think.

DFS.
 
Uh huh... That's what I said, that I knew exactly how it played.

Anyway, it looks bland/generic. Any thoughts?
 
Based on what we've played, Baten Kaitos appears to have a lot of appeal that should be welcomed with open arms by most RPG fans. The game's high production values and meaty play present a potent combo that's hard to resist. While the battle system and some of the more idiosyncratic elements of the gameplay may give some players pause, they shouldn't dissuade anyone from trying it out. The rich story is cool, and it's up to the quality of Monolith's work on the PlayStation 2. Anyone looking for a substantial RPG for the GameCube should keep an eye out for Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings when it ships this November for the system.
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http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/rpg/batenkaitos/preview_6110002.html
 
IGN says the plot is one of it's stronger aspects... so which is it? I hate getting mixed signals in regards to the story.

Edit: and even Gamespot say the story is strong. I suppose it's your opinion, but can you put aside your biases and give a objective assessment of the story?
 
Mashing said:
Edit: and even Gamespot say the story is strong. I suppose it's your opinion, but can you put aside your biases and give a objective assessment of the story?
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That's one of the most retarded questions anyone's ever asked me.

DFS.
 
I'm willing to try the card-based gameplay. That's not a problem at all. I just want to see a great video of the game.
 
WarPig said:
That's one of the most retarded questions anyone's ever asked me.

DFS.
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Wow, that was harsh. Biases may not have been the correct word I'm looking for... Why do you think the story is bad while IGN and Gamespot (I guess it could be because they haven't play it through completely -- obviously not in english) think it's good? Is that a little more clear?
 
Duckhuntdog said:
Have you seen the month it gets released in? It's going to bomb. Big time.
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I dunno. It has the Cube audience to itself, and this is a weak season for RPGs.

It'll at least do better than it would have, say, last year.

DFS.
 
truesayian said:
He probly thinks the story sucks. cuz he's playing the japanese version... and has no clue what there saying...
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I don't have the energy to own this guy right now. Somebody else do it.
 
Kobun Heat said:
I don't have the energy to own this guy right now. Somebody else do it.
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Fuck, I was hoping you'd do it for me.

Samurai Champloo truly is the new Cowboy Bebop. Even complete shitheads like it. I eagerly await the onslaught of bad nu-metal music videos at next year's cons.

DFS.
 
does this game suck? How about... is this game any good?

I personally am not too keen on the card battling premise - this genre HAS GOT TO GO. However; if the reviews aren't too bad; I might pick it up to have a jizz (or not... seeing how people said LK was good but it was a c- game; visuals and gameplay)

My prediction 7.2/10
 
Part of me wants to say "I don't know how many times it has to be said that Baten Kaitos is not a card-battling game until people get it" and the other part just wants to kick whoever at Monolith Soft thought it would be a good marketing tactic to use cards in place of a traditional menu system in the SACK.

EDIT: Because they made a solid game around a system that makes people post el retardo questions about it every day.
 
Kobun Heat said:
Part of me wants to say "I don't know how many times it has to be said that Baten Kaitos is not a card-battling game until people get it" and the other part just wants to kick whoever at Monolith Soft thought it would be a good marketing tactic to use cards in place of a traditional menu system in the SACK.
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hmm.. yes/no. I guess if its just a menu system as opposed to text (spells, attack) etc; that might make it more appealing in my eyes. I HATE card battles...etc..cards on screen...etc

So.

its not anything like Lost Kingdoms? If yes. sold. I need to read some previews.
 
#1. I wouldn't trust IGN Cube's opinion on any aspect of an RPG.

#2. All impressions of the japanese version I heard said it was a good game. It certainly has some great locales that I want to visit while playing the game.
 
Mashing said:
IGN says the plot is one of it's stronger aspects... so which is it? I hate getting mixed signals in regards to the story.
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bahahahahahahahahahahahahshajxhzklashfjkhdjkshfjk;dhsklfjsljksa

no.

WarPig said:
...this is a weak season for RPGs.
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what? there are lots of good solid RPGs to play across the 3 platforms, and then a ton more decent B-grade titles.

SMT nocturne, shadow hearts covenant, fable, growlanser generations, tales of symphonia, paper mario... and there are plenty of solid Bs (like this game, IMO) as well.

granted there's no like WORLD CLASS OWNAGE title (unless you're a big KOTOR fan, i guess) but this year is anything but "weak" for RPGs.
 
TheGreenGiant said:
its not anything like Lost Kingdoms? If yes. sold. I need to read some previews.
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It's nothing like Lost Kingdoms. The card system is basically a way of streamlining the combat commands, kinda the way Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories does it. Your hand of cards represents all the actions available to you in a turn -- weapon cards to attack, armor cards to defend, magic cards to cast spells, item cards to heal or cure or revive or whatever, and so on. Like Kohler says, it's not really a card battle game, it's a traditional RPG that uses cards as shorthand for combat commands.

The one gameplay element that it does borrow from something like Magic is deck-building strategy, though, you do have to work out how to build a balanced deck of attack, defense, and support actions for each character.

DFS.
 
ferricide said:
what? there are lots of good solid RPGs to play across the 3 platforms, and then a ton more decent B-grade titles.
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Poor choice of words on my part. As you surmise, I should have said something like "open" season for RPGs, a season without a dominating blockbuster.

Does anybody else get a weird vibe from the run-up to KOTOR II, by the way? Feels like there oughta be more anticipation than there is.

DFS.
 
Does anybody else get a weird vibe from the run-up to KOTOR II, by the way? Feels like there oughta be more anticipation than there is.
Click to expand...

I think it's because just about every single Xbox owner is focused on Halo 2 right now, and there are games on other platforms such as GTA: SA. Once the big November guns are out it may pick up a bit.
 
TheGreenGiant said:
no? so the plot is no good? UNSOLD.

* ps can you give a spoiler free analysis? Its too easy to say yes/no without justification.
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I wouldn't trust anyone about this game if i were you, just play it for yourself, you're obviously going to have elitists dissing it (like with every game), i'm sure there will be quite a few positive reviews for this game too.
 
The sountrack is mediocre? O_o. I think it fucking rocks. *listens to The True Mirror*
 
GaimeGuy said:
The sountrack is mediocre? O_o. I think it fucking rocks. *listens to The True Mirror*
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Like I say, I think it has its ups and downs. Some pieces are really good, no doubt, but I wish I didn't have to keep listening to a wimpy battle theme.

DFS.
 
the OST is even better than SO3 Its absurd how good it is.....


I guess having an undying hatred for Prog would turn someone off the OST though....


Chony said:
Its the Chrono Cross of this generation.
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Oh so itll be my favorite RPG this gen? Cool.
 
I think it's because some of the CC staff worked on Baten, too.

Anyway, can someone answer my question about the game's length? Is it like the recent FF games or Monolith's other RPG, Xenosaga (took me 40-50 hours), or more like Game Art's RPGs (20-30 hours)?
 
Miburou said:
I think it's because some of the CC staff worked on Baten, too.

Anyway, can someone answer my question about the game's length? Is it like the recent FF games or Monolith's other RPG, Xenosaga (took me 40-50 hours), or more like Game Art's RPGs (20-30 hours)?
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you sure you dont have those numbers mixed up?
 
There is a slight card-based theme to this game, but it is not a card-based RPG.

Items, attacks and spells are represented by a card. When you find an item, instead of that item being buried in some menu, you'll turn it into a card. Really, its the same thing, except in card form you get some neat artwork.

While in battle, the only real card-based limit is the number of cards you can hold in your hand at once... this can be increased as the game progresses. The rest of the fundimentals are fairly traditional RPG mechanics... pick an item or attack and create a combo. Every card has a number in the corner (later cards will have multiple selectable numbers), when play the cards and create a pair or a straight you recieve a bonus. You only have so much time to create a combo and later in the game that time decreases. Also, the card will age and change over time. Food will rot, plants will grow, etc.

Now, let me toss out a quote from a Namco rep. "One of the advantages of this battle system is that strategy really opens up as opposed to getting slimmer. So in a menu-based RPG, you use a lot of strategy at the beginning because you're really weak. But near the end, you're so powerful you just use the same three attacks over and over again. With this, it's the opposite. We start you off simple and you can play two cards at once. Then you gain levels and you can lay down more cards, so by the end you're using the maximum amount of strategy, which keeps the gameplay fresh. It also makes the game more fun as you go through it, right up to the last boss." Phil Cohen, Nintendo Power, vol. 185, pg 47.
 
FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX and FFX all took me around 40-50 to finish (although I spent 100+ hours on FFVII getting all the extras). I didn't like Xenosaga, and I played it over the course of a year, so I'm not so sure about the length. I do remember the Lunars and Grandias being shorter.

Anyway, so it's comparable to the PS and PS2 FF games in terms of time it takes to complete?
 
Urgh, I hate how every RPG's length is compared to FFs. Since when did FF become the benchmark for RPG length? Did I miss some press conference around the time of FFVII's release saying that it was the official RPG length benchmark?
 
JJConrad said:
"One of the advantages of this battle system is that strategy really opens up as opposed to getting slimmer. So in a menu-based RPG, you use a lot of strategy at the beginning because you're really weak. But near the end, you're so powerful you just use the same three attacks over and over again. With this, it's the opposite. We start you off simple and you can play two cards at once. Then you gain levels and you can lay down more cards, so by the end you're using the maximum amount of strategy, which keeps the gameplay fresh. It also makes the game more fun as you go through it, right up to the last boss." Phil Cohen, Nintendo Power, vol. 185, pg 47.
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well, sounds alright then - the bit about food/plants growing has me quite intrigued. Different concept I guess - I still think the idea of using an "attack card with a sword icon" ... is really dofusy.

How did BK score and sell in Japan?
 
GaimeGuy said:
Urgh, I hate how every RPG's length is compared to FFs. Since when did FF become the benchmark for RPG length? Did I miss some press conference around the time of FFVII's release saying that it was the official RPG length benchmark?
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Chill out. I'm just asking a question, and since completion time differs from person to person, it's better to ask relative to another RPG. And since FF games are the most popular, it's the easiest to compare to. Not that hard to understand, is it?
 
it sounds to me that the card play style is close to megaman exe and if that is like that i would love it becuase well one of my favorite things aabout exe was the battle system. It was just so easy to make combos and the deck stratagie was great.
 
WarPig said:
Does anybody else get a weird vibe from the run-up to KOTOR II, by the way? Feels like there oughta be more anticipation than there is.
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Honestly, KOTOR was my favorite game of last year, but I don't have the same anticipation for it this time. I think there are several factors involved...the Xbox library has had a stunning year and will have a stunning end (even without this)...it seems a little bit like an immediate part II rather than a re-worked sequel...and for me at least, there are two Japanese RPGs (Shadow Hearts and Nocturne) that are a lot more to my liking than the general fare of the genre.

As far as BK, I've come to the conclusion that though I enjoy Namco their RPGs are as a rule a chore to play for any real length of time.
 
Ok here's the short short version.

Battle rocks, Music rocks, Graphics and Story are meh at best. Feels like a tri-Ace game through and through.

If you want detailed impressions and a good go around about the game in general read my review. I always tend to make my import reviews rather detailed so people can get an idea of how the game actually is and get a sense of how it plays.

It isn't site plugging, I honestly can't be arsed to write up some more impressions here, it's been awhile anyway. :P
 
http://www.planetgamecube.com/impressions.cfm?action=profile&id=713

Ty seems to think everything BUT the story/dialogue is great. Judging from what he says abou the dialogue, I'm not sure I would agree with IGN or GameSpot's praises.

Personally, I thought the battle system was boring at E3, though I didn't have a clue what was going on. It just didn't seem very exciting. The graphics were not as great as I'd heard about, either. Some of the backgrounds are fantastic, but the polygonal characters look average at best.
 
Jonnyboy117 said:
http://www.planetgamecube.com/impressions.cfm?action=profile&id=713

Ty seems to think everything BUT the story/dialogue is great. Judging from what he says abou the dialogue, I'm not sure I would agree with IGN or GameSpot's praises.
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The JPN dialogue wasn't the most stellar either. But it was funny how Xelha CONSTANTLY gets pissed at Kalas.

Personally, I thought the battle system was boring at E3, though I didn't have a clue what was going on. It just didn't seem very exciting.
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You and I tend to have polar opposite reactions to battle systems, j00ny. :P The battle system in BK takes some getting into (specially with the rather generic cards you start with) but once you do "get it" it's absolutely fantastic. Quite deep, and it's only marr is that the game is overly easy... which is why they probably put in manual levelling...

The graphics were not as great as I'd heard about, either. Some of the backgrounds are fantastic, but the polygonal characters look average at best.
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Dreamcast. The models are all DC or lower. Some of the enemies would make Evolution cringe. :\
 
Dragona Akehi said:
Battle rocks, Music rocks, Graphics and Story are meh at best. Feels like a tri-Ace game through and through.
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yes, yes, no, yes, what?

i mean, there are some resemblences, but it feels more like chrono cross than anything else. it certainly looks like it.

i want to talk about this game >_<

but i'll be good.

oh, i can definitely ask this: people who are complaining about the card system, have you actually played a decent, in-depth card game (culdcept, or the real paper magic) or are you just complaining because you've played lame ass shit (lost kingdoms) or even nothing at all? there's a lot of interesting depth to card games, IMO. but BK is not too hard to deal with in that regard, anyway. (people who are doing damage control by saying IT IS NOT REALLY A CARD GAME!!!!! kind of miss the point, too. the card-ing is in the setup, not the execution, and it's there, but that's a good thing.)
 
The one gameplay element that it does borrow from something like Magic is deck-building strategy, though, you do have to work out how to build a balanced deck of attack, defense, and support actions for each character.
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Don't get this. Deck construction is the heart of the CCG genre. If a game has deck construction as a core game element, that makes it very heavily CCG influenced at the least.
 
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